three problems as I see them

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by UMAIR316: *
No disrespect, but I think you need to go reread the article before making false judgements, he said the 2 Ws' performance declined for the past couple years, specially around the time Shoaib started playing, nobody can't deny the fact.
And he never disrespected 2 Ws, so many people in this form have also said that many times but no one is disrespecting the 2 Ws.
[/quote]

He said had he played for Australia he probably would have had more wickers after McGrath and Gillispe have softened up the batsman he would been destructive as Wasim and Waqar were not match winning bowlers anymore. Wasim Akram till the last day he played was very destructive. It wasnt his peed it was his variety that kept the batsmen guessing whats coming up next. And when there was big dicsussion before the world cup about Waqar being in ordinary bowler and shouldnt be the captain someone posted his stats and he still had a strike rate that would make many good bowlers jealous. All Shoiab was trying to do in his interview was look important.

[quote]
Yaar, the reason warne has 500 wickets then Shoaib because he has played almost 3 times more cricket then Shoaib, if you look at Shoaib's wicket taking rate, if he were to play 100 matches, he can take alot more but thats different comparision, you can't compare a leg spinner with fast bowler
[/quote]

No disrespect but you need to scroll up and see who was talking about Warne. I was just replying to Jeera who said that Shane Warne has a big mouth just like Shoiab but no one can deny how destructive those two bowlers are. Well comparing Warne's destrcutivness to Shoiab's is unfair to Warne. Shoiab has been good so far but he has to go a long way if he is to even come close to being as destructive as Warne.

[quote]

Plus why are we comparing Shoaib with Afridi. Affers is an allrounder while Shoaib is a handy batting option down the order.
Afridi is way superior to Shoaib as far as agressive batting is concerned.
[/QUOTE]

Again it wasnt me, it was Mr Jeera who thought Shoaib was a better batsman than Afridi. According to him Shoiab has immense talent as he can bat unlike Afridi, Waqar and Aaqib.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by LahoriMunda: *

He said had he played for Australia he probably would have had more wickers after McGrath and Gillispe have softened up the batsman he would been destructive as Wasim and Waqar were not match winning bowlers anymore. Wasim Akram till the last day he played was very destructive. It wasnt his peed it was his variety that kept the batsmen guessing whats coming up next. And when there was big dicsussion before the world cup about Waqar being in ordinary bowler and shouldnt be the captain someone posted his stats and he still had a strike rate that would make many good bowlers jealous. All Shoiab was trying to do in his interview was look important.
[/quote]

But please look at his strike rate, and his bowlinig avg in the last couple years. And you will see what Shoaib was talking about.
About Wasim, well I kind of agree, I think Wasim's bowling performance got better in 2002 but between 1999 WC and 2001, his performance was on decline, only the retirment motivated him to perform better.

PAKISTAN TEAM

i think saleem aint that bad once he get going, and considerin he has only played 40 matches on international level, he cud get quicker wid time, plus look at his average on domestic level its 50 +

and yeah about younis khan, lookin at the best batsmen eva to have played for pakistan he is the 14 best eva produced by pakistan, it wud even improve after todays match and he has played most of the time at number 6, and this man can perform under pressure and thats the key

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by LahoriMunda: *
No disrespect but you need to scroll up and see who was talking about Warne. I was just replying to Jeera who said that Shane Warne has a big mouth just like Shoiab but no one can deny how destructive those two bowlers are. Well comparing Warne's destrcutivness to Shoiab's is unfair to Warne. Shoiab has been good so far but he has to go a long way if he is to even come close to being as destructive as Warne.

Again it wasnt me, it was Mr Jeera who thought Shoaib was a better batsman than Afridi. According to him Shoiab has immense talent as he can bat unlike Afridi, Waqar and Aaqib.
[/QUOTE]

LM janee..thandee goli kha bhai (take a chill pill)..atleast let me clear myself...right from the word go u are after me w/ your slingshot

Ist part: Bhai when i said Shoaib has big mouth ..like Shane Warne..>>what is so wrong w/ that??? I consider Shoaib more lethal than Warney..thats my perception....Shoaib when on song can rip through the strongest Aus batting line up..and he has done it more than once...and plez don't give me crap of stat..500 wickets blah blah!!

Start appreciating what pakistani team is...esp Shoaib

As for Afridi and Waqar Comment..these morons after playing hundreds of matches still don't know how to bat..Shoaib atleast tried w/ bat...i said he has potential just like Imran and Wasim to chip in w/ bat...not like Waqar and Aqib!!! atleast appreciate..his intentions of improving his batting.

Afridi is better than only one batsman..> G. Macgrath

P.S: thankyou for calling me Mr Jeera..hehehe
peace man!

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by UMAIR316: *

But please look at his strike rate, and his bowlinig avg in the last couple years. And you will see what Shoaib was talking about.

[/QUOTE]

I agree Waqar has not been the same bowler, but had that comment been coming from someone who was performing way better then Waqar then you can justify it. Coming from Shoiab is not justified. Take a look at their recent performance.

Waqar took 39 wickets in the last 25 ODI's that he played at a decent average of 24.53. Compare that to Shoiab's last 25 matches and he has taken 37 wickets at decent average of 24.72. Now there is not much of difference there. That means Waqar in his decline is still as good a bowler as Shoaib. Wasim Akram has always been in a class of his own. In the last 25 matches Wasim Akram has played he has taken 43 wickets at an amazing average of 19.67. Now how can Shoaib whine that he didnt get good support from the other end. Even McGrath's average in the last 25 matches he played is 19.33 which is amazing but Wasim is not too far off.

Thank you LM for that. Pretty much proves everything I suspected.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Jerablade: *

Start appreciating what pakistani team is...esp Shoaib
[/QUOTE]

I never said I dont appreciate Pakistan or Shoiab. But just like every supporter I have the right to point out the mistakes of some players esp. Shoiab.

[quote]

As for Afridi and Waqar Comment..these morons after playing hundreds of matches still don't know how to bat..Shoaib atleast tried w/ bat...i said he has potential just like Imran and Wasim to chip in w/ bat...not like Waqar and Aqib!!! atleast appreciate..his intentions of improving his batting.

Afridi is better than only one batsman..> G. Macgrath
[/QUOTE]

First of all Shoaib played a couple of good innings with the bat and you are considering him a regular all rounder. Waqar's achievement's with the ball have been amazing over the years and you are telling me to appreciate Pakistani players. Forgetting what Waqar did for Pakistan over the years just because he is gettiong older and loosing the magical touch. First you are comapring Warne to Shoaib and then Waqar to Shoiab. Then you are telling me to appreciate Pakistani players. I'm not sure if you have crush on Shoaib or what but if you get outside the world of Shoaib Akhatr there are other Pakistani players too and appreciating them wont hurt anything.

As far as Afridi is concerned, only someone like you can say he is only better than McGrath. If you think Shoaib is a better batsman then Afridi then I doubt anyone will take any of your cricketing comments seriously.
I'd say you are the one who needs to take a chill pill.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by LahoriMunda: *

I agree Waqar has not been the same bowler, but had that comment been coming from someone who was performing way better then Waqar then you can justify it. Coming from Shoiab is not justified. Take a look at their recent performance.

Waqar took 39 wickets in the last 25 ODI's that he played at a decent average of 24.53. Compare that to Shoiab's last 25 matches and he has taken 37 wickets at decent average of 24.72. Now there is not much of difference there. That means Waqar in his decline is still as good a bowler as Shoaib. Wasim Akram has always been in a class of his own. In the last 25 matches Wasim Akram has played he has taken 43 wickets at an amazing average of 19.67. Now how can Shoaib whine that he didnt get good support from the other end. Even McGrath's average in the last 25 matches he played is 19.33 which is amazing but Wasim is not too far off.
[/QUOTE]

Yaar you don't get it, he never said Ws were bad bowlers, he said they are not as good as they used to be. Shoaib Akhtar has been repeatedly mishandeled by the Pakistani management, they play him one series, then they drop him in the next one, and then they pick him again. If he plays continiously he can by all means improve his record but Shoaib having an avg of 21 in ODI cricket is a huge accomplishment, only couple other bowlers in world cricket have that avg, and their names are Bond, McGrath, Murali and Pollock and that is a huge achivement to be included in that list.

Sambrillian yaar stop with this non sense, how does it prove everything right of what you said before. You said Younis Khan and Shoaib deserve to be booted out but they performed extraordinary well today, what do you have to say about it. Nothing you suspect has been proved right.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by UMAIR316: *

Sambrillian yaar stop with this non sense, how does it prove everything right of what you said before. You said Younis Khan and Shoaib deserve to be booted out but they performed extraordinary well today, what do you have to say about it. Nothing you suspect has been proved right.
[/QUOTE]

Hahaha...yaar Umair316...what a polite way to teach a little kid

Sambrillian dear: No hard feeling...dude we all are Pakistani...stay united!

The Game Responds:

     *The "safest wicketkeeper in the world" choked when it mattered the most. Hail the beloved captain. Morons. People, That Is All.*

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by the game: *
*
The Game Responds**:

     *The "safest wicketkeeper in the world" choked when it mattered the most. Hail the beloved captain. Morons. People, That Is All.* 

[/QUOTE]

Hey Game, Rashid Latif is a great keeper but all great players make mistakes, he was brilliant in the field today and for the past couple months, yeah he dropped a crucial match but he is anything but a choker, he has come down the order as a batsman in the past and helped Pakistan put decent scores.
1 dropped catch doesn't mean anything, maybe you should go ask Boucher.

I think its time inzi was brought back to the team. Hes the best we have. Imran Nazir hasnt done too well, besides the first game where the pitch was like a sub-continent one, saleem elahi is a better player.
the game......who doesnt make mistakes?!?!
Rashid has done a great job ever since he was made the captain.
the team got to work on their fielding, catching and throwing at the stumps, direct hits can change a game completely and is an aspect pakistan need to work on.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by UMAIR316: *
Sambrillian yaar stop with this non sense, how does it prove everything right of what you said before. You said Younis Khan and Shoaib deserve to be booted out but they performed extraordinary well today, what do you have to say about it. Nothing you suspect has been proved right.
[/QUOTE]

I hereby apologize to all those who participated in this thread. I take back all my comments saying that Imran Nazir and Younis Khan are underachievers, and that Shoaib Akhtar is a blockhead. Here are my new Umair316 sanctioned assessments:

1) Imran Nazir: A great opener as Umair316 would say.
2) Younis Khan: A great batsman as Umair 316 would say
3) Shoaib Akhtar: A great bowler as Umair316 would say. He also has a doctorate in Physics from Stanford.

All in all, I have conformed and come to the correct conclusion that our team is pretty much perfect. And therefore, we're the number one side in the world ahead of Australia of course. So no one should ever entertain any thoughts to the contrary.

How stupid of me to say what I think? I should have realized that free speech and thought is not to be practised in Khel Khilari. It says so clearly in the KK rules. Please, adhere to the guidelines from now on.

Cheers and thank you.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by sambrialian: *

I hereby apologize to all those who participated in this thread. I take back all my comments saying that Imran Nazir and Younis Khan are underachievers, and that Shoaib Akhtar is a blockhead. Here are my new Umair316 sanctioned assessments:

1) Imran Nazir: A great opener as Umair316 would say.
2) Younis Khan: A great batsman as Umair 316 would say
3) Shoaib Akhtar: A great bowler as Umair316 would say. He also has a doctorate in Physics from Stanford.

All in all, I have conformed and come to the correct conclusion that our team is pretty much perfect. And therefore, we're the number one side in the world ahead of Australia of course. So no one should ever entertain any thoughts to the contrary.

How stupid of me to say what I think? I should have realized that free speech and thought is not to be practised in Khel Khilari. It says so clearly in the KK rules. Please, adhere to the guidelines from now on.

Cheers and thank you.
[/QUOTE]

younis khan is a very good player, as we saw in the final. Pakistan wouldnt have got to 200 if it werent for him! He mite not have scored a 100, but hes helped pakistan through in difficult situations.

there are strong forces in pakistani cricket that won't let us drop shoaib akhtar (for monetary reasons or whatever)...he is indisciplined and doesn't treat the game with respect. he's going to have a bitter and disappointing end to his career and he's not even the best bowler on pakistan (sami takes that honor). the thing is, it's hard to keep him off the team because the guy attracts so much attention.

i felt that we should have held on to imran nazir. look our opening has been in shambles ever since saeed became religious and aamir sohail quit. imran played in the WC of 99 and performed ably.

finally, Younis Khan is a good find. we're all being hard on him because of his ducks in the recent series but he fought back well. one may actually say that the veterans lost this series for us (latif, shoaib akhtar, younis khan, youhanna) whereas the youth kept us in it (hafeez, the best find in 10 years, shoaib malik, sami)

the team batting second won every match of this series. we'll be back.

we're still a young team, trust me, this experience, even of losing close matches, will pay in the Caribbean in 2007.

Sambi, its not about Younis, Imran and Shoaib being great or not.
My point is that you can't criticize any players by the bases of just 1 or 2 matches, eventhough Shoaib bowled well yesterday but he needs to continue his good bowling to earn a place in the team.

I dont see any problem in Pakistani side other than "an in-experienced team". You cant do much about that. Can you ?

I am satisfied (if not happy) from the final's result. They didnt throw away the match. Atleast they fought to the v end and thats what matters.

Only if they can keep shoaib's mouth shut and make him do all the talking by ball, I'll still give 15/20 more matches to this team without jumping to any conclusion.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by UMAIR316: *

Hey Game, Rashid Latif is a great keeper but all great players make mistakes, he was brilliant in the field today and for the past couple months, yeah he dropped a crucial match but he is anything but a choker, he has come down the order as a batsman in the past and helped Pakistan put decent scores.
1 dropped catch doesn't mean anything, maybe you should go ask Boucher.
[/QUOTE]

The Game Responds:

    *:D Oh man, don't even remind me of Boucher's screw-up(s!) in the World Cup! Good point you make there though. People, That Is All.*

Younis khan came in at the end of the 14th over. Played till the 43.4 Over
Scored 63. Made me realize, and I agree, what some of the people that have been saying about Younis Khan having fewer opportunities to score a 100. From his inning I concluded that he obviously need to play around or over 80 overs to make a 100 …
Obviously he does not have the talent and the class to score 100 in 35 odd overs. Why do I say that ?

1.Unlike good batsmen he can not pick the ball early. He was never comfortable with Giles. Giles looked much quicker in the air when Younis played him. When Shoaib Malik and later Abdul Razaq played Giles, they made it look simple, with them having ample time to play against Giles.
2.He can not score boundaries as easily …. His placement is ordinary and can not pick the bowl early which makes it difficult for him to score boundaries. After his 50 he tried, unsuccessful to up the run rate but only managed to sky one in no mans land and then getting out on his next attempt. This was when we was supposed be dangerous…
3.Though I am glad he did get out .. Had he done that a few overs earlier may be Pak total would have been around 250 but from a cricketing point of view he was the supposedly “set” batsmen and towards the end should have rotated the strike such that Abdul Razaq got most of the strike so he could play this big shorts. But to the contrary Younis Khan tries to do it himself and gets out … sending a new batsman in…

In my view he can stay until we find someone better, I do not think of him very highly or even a good batsman. He is ordinary.

Miandad Backs Shoaib](Yahoo is part of the Yahoo family of brands.)

Pakistan coach Javed Miandad has leapt to the defence of pace ace Shoaib Akhtar, who has been under fire following his below-par displays in the NatWest Challenge series defeat to England.

Former captain Waqar Younis launched a scathing attack on Akhtar, nicknamed the Rawalpindi Express, for his waywardness at the AMP Oval on Friday when his two for 69 from nine overs allowed England to level the three-match series at a canter.

The 27-year-old, who signed a three-month deal with Durham over the weekend, responded superbly at Lord’s yesterday but finished wicketless for 40 as England sneaked match and tournament wins.

Bowling with ferocity, accuracy and ill fortune in equal measure, Shoaib twice saw centurion Marcus Trescothick flash through the slips early on, had Michael Vaughan dropped at third slip by Mohammad Hafeez, on nought, and most crucially, when he returned in a tense finale, Trescothick was spilled by wicketkeeper Rashid Latif on 93.

Only an hour before the NatWest decider, he revealed his desire to prove himself in England during his spell in county cricket, having failed to deliver match-winning performances on these shores against the national side.

Often criticised for his attitude, fitness level and behaviour, both on and off the field, Shoaib - the first bowler to break the 100-mile-per-hour barrier since the introduction of speed guns - missed the opening match, Pakistan’s win under lights at Old Trafford, as he was serving an International Cricket Council ban for ball tampering.

“The past is past, everybody has seen here that his behaviour was excellent, he looked like a team man, he was encouraging all the youngsters, he was fighting and trying his best,” said Miandad.

"He knew he had bowled badly in the second game and he came with me to Lord’s on Saturday voluntarily and bowled for one-and-a-half-hours - it was a different bowler yesterday to the last game.

“If you have any problem you can go into the nets, sort yourself out and apply it in the middle. If you are not doing it in the middle this is the only way you can learn.”

Waqar, who was captain of the Pakistan team that misfired at the World Cup earlier this year before being ditched along with eight others following their group stage exit, was incensed by Shoaib’s performance at the Oval where he was brutally dealt with by Marcus Trescothick, who made a 55-ball 86 in a seven-wicket victory.

And he has ordered his former new-ball partner to show a little less lip and a little more zip.

“It’s ridiculous Shoaib coming out in the papers saying he’s going to do this or do that,” Waqar, currently at Warwickshire, told www.channel4.com. "He’s been doing it for a few years now and he never lives up to it and it looks pretty ugly.

"He gave an interview last week where he spoke about me and he spoke about Wasim (Akram) and said we lost the World Cup because Wasim and myself were in decline. It was all rubbish, basically.

"It’s no use him talking about other players being in decline - he should look at his own performance. He performs to his ability once a year - and then he has the nerve to compare himself with Glenn McGrath and players like that.

"He was saying last week that if he’d been born Australian, he’d have taken more wickets. It might have been better for Pakistan if he had been born in Australia.

"I’ve always helped Shoaib and tried to make him a better bowler, but I don’t know what’s wrong with him.

"Pace isn’t everything. What’s the point doing 100mph if you can’t put the ball in the right place?

"Shoaib thinks he knows it all already - but in cricket you’re always learning. I’m still learning, after all these years.

"Shoaib is a good bowler. I wanted him in the World Cup squad. But he just doesn’t do what he says. He bigs himself up beyond what he’s capable of. He likes to be in the papers and be flash - but he just doesn’t deliver on the field.

"Look at Friday: it was painful to see the way Pakistan played. It was painful to see the way he was bowling.

“Fair enough, you fight and you lose. But he’s always saying, ‘I’m going to do this or I’m going to do that’. Just bowl, mate. Just stop talking and bowl.”

Shoaib, who replaces South African Dewald Pretorius at the north east county, told The Press Association before yesterday’s match he was desperate to display the form that has brought him 88 wickets in 25 Tests and close to 150 one-day international victims.

"I need to prove myself to myself, the counties and everyone around England - I am very strong at the moment, still bowling 98-miles-per-hour and I can serve Durham well.

“There are 10 County Championship games left and I will do everything I can to get them promoted,” he said.

“It is hectic cricket, you have to play a lot of games and I just want to bowl more, learn more about myself, concentrate slightly less on my pace, not a great deal, but learn every day, about different conditions in a different atmosphere.”