Thousands-strong mob attacks police station, burns man to death for alleged blasphemy

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Re: Thousands-strong mob attacks police station, burns man to death for alleged blasp

I asked you if you belong to any non-Ibrahimic religion like Hinduism. You did not answer that.

So far you have not been able to show if you have anything against non-Ibrahim religions, I wonder why.

You have shown your inability to get the point that religious doctrines and even non-religious ideas or differences may not be at fault if individuals commit legal crimes and use these ideas as their motives.

You say people find reasons to commit barbarism in religions.

So why do you think people find reasons for barbarism in non-religious ideas or differences?

I expect you answer directly and say people are at fault, not the differences.

Can you?

BTW: Islam does not say a person automatically deserves death penalty on the basis of being infidel or Kaafir. You just made it up. Or have been reading biased media.

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Re: Thousands-strong mob attacks police station, burns man to death for alleged blasp

This act of mob was against the law. Isn't it clear to you by now that the act of mob was simply the act of mob. The law has nothing to do with that. If the law had encouraged them to do so then mob members did not have to take the matter in their hands.

How many accused have actually been punished by this law. Any idea?

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Re: Thousands-strong mob attacks police station, burns man to death for alleged blasp

i asked only qur'anic verse and no hadith .....

Well i thought u would do the research before taking a it out of context which is about self defence, something early Muslim displayed alongwith Rasool-e-Pak Mohammad SAW ..... History is Testament to this ...... but then its ur choice so i leave his debate .....

Well talking about taking moral high ground while justifying it on religious ground ...... it doesn't end there ..... What about the 2 Iraq Wars ..... who took the moral high ground and how many innocent died for that very reason ..... The 1st Iraq War the UN sanctioned the killing of thousands of innocent PPL all for humanity to prevail right????

It's all about interests so stop laying solely blame on religion

It's the lack of education rather than anything else

peace

124

Re: Thousands-strong mob attacks police station, burns man to death for alleged blasp

I see people who are against Anti Blasphemy law are using this incident for their own benefit.....
What about sialkot killings?
Have you peoples never seen people (mob) killing or trying to kill a person after road accidents?
Just see my earlier post where i posted links for two different incidents ...One of the incident is similar to sialkot killing where people suspected Bahurupiyas as thieves and killed them in front of police....
So what should we do about the law which incriminate a person as thief?

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Re: Thousands-strong mob attacks police station, burns man to death for alleged blasp

The animals in jungle are more law obedients. what you accept here where Govt/Judicery/agencies are fighting each other who care about any law not them neither awam.

126

Re: Thousands-strong mob attacks police station, burns man to death for alleged blasp

I though I have given you the reference from Quran … Sura Touba is in Quran isn’t it …and its not hadith …

At-Tawba 5 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

yep the controversial wikipedia … but the material is there …

"
Arabic Quotation

The verse in the Arabic Qur’an reads
[TABLE=“class: cquote”]

“
فَإِذَا ٱنسَلَخَ ٱلۡأَشۡہُرُ ٱلۡحُرُمُ فَٱقۡتُلُواْ ٱلۡمُشۡرِكِينَ حَيۡثُ وَجَدتُّمُوهُمۡ وَخُذُوهُمۡ وَٱحۡصُرُوهُمۡ وَٱقۡعُدُواْ لَهُمۡ ڪُلَّ مَرۡصَدٍ۬ۚ فَإِن تَابُواْ وَأَقَامُواْ ٱلصَّلَوٰةَ وَءَاتَوُاْ ٱلزَّڪَوٰةَ فَخَلُّواْ سَبِيلَهُمۡۚ إِنَّ ٱللَّهَ غَفُورٌ۬ رَّحِيمٌ۬
”

Translations and commentary

[TABLE=“class: cquote”]

“
Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.([SUP]Quran 9:5][/SUP])
”

[TABLE=“class: cquote”]

“
But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them, an seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent, and establish regular prayers and practise regular charity, then open the way for them: for Allah is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.
”

[TABLE=“class: cquote”]

“
Do not wait until you find them. Rather, seek and besiege them in their areas and forts, gather intelligence about them in the various roads and fairways so that what is made wide looks ever smaller to them. This way, they will have no choice, but to die or embrace Islam."

"

Also Sura-e-Baqra ayat 191 is similiar in nature … and there are many , and I am not going into Hadiths …

also not going into the justifications ,the rights and wrongs and whys …it simple …
like I have earlier said … " … its inbuilt … " … for whatever reason .

and about the voilence of non-abrahamic religions .. " Bali …" human sacrifice in certain strains of hinduism …also .. Mayan religion , where they would take out the heart of a living being …are such examples … also " Sati " …where the women is/was burned along with her husband are other examples…

I have given my point of view … the arguments to the references and contexts … thats what every one always resorts… like … see the earlier verses and the verses that follow ..to understand … is actually no argument … since…my point is simple …

religion … endorses such violence ..for whatever reason , right or wrong .. it condones such actions…

you should actually stop speed reading …but I am not into *ad hominem *so I will refrain my self further …

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Re: Thousands-strong mob attacks police station, burns man to death for alleged blasp

your argument that human exploits and use it for their own means ...and my argument is No its " built in " ... humans use is because they find it there in the first place ... had it not been there ...humans would not have used it ......... I have given examples ....

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Re: Thousands-strong mob attacks police station, burns man to death for alleged blasp

^ I think we cannot read the ayat that you have quoted in isolation, we will have to see the whole picture. As far as this surah is concerned it seems to be dealing with the kuffar if they break the truce and attack the muslims. I agree that some extremists use these individual ayats to justify their actions.

Al-Qur’an, Surah At-Taubah

**4. **Excepting those of the idolaters with whom ye (Muslims) have a treaty, and who have since abated nothing of your right nor have supported anyone against you. (As for these), fulfil their treaty to them till their term. Lo! Allah loveth those who keep their duty (unto Him).

**5. **Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

**6. **And if anyone of the idolaters seeketh thy protection (O Muhammad), then protect him so that he may hear the Word of Allah, and afterward convey him to his place of safety. That is because they are a folk who know not.

**7. **How can there be a treaty with Allah and with His messenger for the idolaters save those with whom ye made a treaty at the Inviolable Place of Worship ? So long as they are true to you, be true to them. Lo! Allah loveth those who keep their duty.

**12. **And if they break their pledges after their treaty (hath been made with you) and assail your religion, then fight the heads of disbelief - Lo! they have no binding oaths - in order that they may desist.

**13. **Will ye not fight a folk who broke their solemn pledges, and purposed to drive out the messenger and did attack you first ? What! Fear ye them ? Now Allah hath more right that ye should fear Him, if ye are believers

**14. **Fight them! Allah will chastise them at your hands, and He will lay them low and give you victory over them, and He will heal the breasts of folk who are believers.

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Re: Thousands-strong mob attacks police station, burns man to death for alleged blasp

Syed Ali sahib , my point is not whether its justified or not , or in what context or situations , ..that is beside the point .. also irrelevant is the Other Factor of violence , like racism , nationalism or pure inbreed propensity for barbarity .... i am talking only about religions inbuilt mechanism for violence , and am neither justifying nor defending nor condoning any other reason for it ..., neither disagreeing to the FACT that there are other forms and reason for violence... true they are there ...

But my Point is simple .... Religion " ... has inbuilt violence ..." which it endorses and condones , for whatever reasons... right or wrong , justified or not ...
Man uses or rather exploits them , because THEY ARE THERE in the first place for whatever reasons.

130

Re: Thousands-strong mob attacks police station, burns man to death for alleged blasp

Agreed, just like this Munafiqs of Munfiqs recited them in a TV show a while ago.

And the Juhalaa in the audience were clapping like this is the coming of Imam Mahdi. Ask any sane person from the outside world, even the outside Islamic world, and they’ll say that these mullays and our people were made for each other. Well deserved get together, even if it took a while in the making.

131

Re: Thousands-strong mob attacks police station, burns man to death for alleged blasp

Afat, that depends upon how you look at things, religion does ask us to defend ourselves when attacked (but thats what countries do anyways as per our recorded history), as far as violence and its justification is concerned you can use any reason (religion being one, ethnicity and strategic interests etc are also included). As far as the literary name of ‘islam’ is concerned that means peace, small minority of people should not help us form image of a whole religion, race, and country etc.

Surah Maida:

**English (Yusuf Ali): (Recite)](http://mediaserver.hadi.org:8080/ramgen/qurantts/5-32.rm?mode=compact)
5:32 On that account: We ordained for the Children of Israel that if any one slew a person - unless it be for murder or for spreading mischief in the land - it would be as if he slew the whole people: and if any one saved a life, it would be as if he saved the life of the whole people. Then although there came to them Our apostles with clear signs, yet, even after that, many of them continued to commit excesses in the land.

132

Re: Thousands-strong mob attacks police station, burns man to death for alleged blasp

This is the problem that some people try to take things out of context and use them for justifying their actions at the expense of the religion.

133

Re: Thousands-strong mob attacks police station, burns man to death for alleged blasp

"religion does ask us to defend ourselves"...

...and in case of propagation , it also asks "
.... Deen ko pheylaoo , mushriqoon say jihad ker key , pehlay unheen dawat doo , woh na maneen to un say laroo...... qatal karoo , or ghalib aa jaoo to ...."

self-righteous reasons to wage war to force one's point of view...? Isn't it ...

Like i said , i am not into the justification thingum , the point is , religion provides the argument and justification for violence , self defense is one angle and propagation is another angle ....

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Re: Thousands-strong mob attacks police station, burns man to death for alleged blasp

The region forming Pakistan has been ransacked over and over during the past 2-3 thousand years, and most of these invasions had nothing to do with religion. It was mostly due to power, resources or strategic location, which still form the biggest reason for wars all around the world.

135

Re: Thousands-strong mob attacks police station, burns man to death for alleged blasp

yes that is true , the reason for violence are many , including conquest ... never denied that , nor defended that

136

Re: Thousands-strong mob attacks police station, burns man to death for alleged blasp

my whole argument is in One particular context ... and that of Religion and religion only .

the question in my view is .... does religion approves violence or men use it on their own , using religion as a pretext ??,

my opinion is , religion endorses and approves and provides justification and at time encourages it ...its a inbuilt thing in religion , man only find it and then uses it ....not on his own , but because its already there in religion . ....

this does not deny the existence of other factors , which use violence for its objectives ...

137

Re: Thousands-strong mob attacks police station, burns man to death for alleged blasp

Wars are reality of this world.....no matter what happens the business of wars will continue till there is any trace of humanity availble on this earth..
Those who curse religion for wars please tell me why atheist russia had skirmishes with atheist china....
Th

138

Re: Thousands-strong mob attacks police station, burns man to death for alleged blasp

Exactly.

This taking things out of context in Islam, and only selecting what they like about it is one of the biggest reasons why we are in the mess today. I’d be turned off if a regular person is taking things out of context, but this is a so-called leader of a so-called political party doing that on national TV, and no one has the guts to correct or catch him in the act, before or after.

139

Re: Thousands-strong mob attacks police station, burns man to death for alleged blasp

..I never denied the existence of wars for other non religious reasons , neither I said they are /were right ... ?

140

Re: Thousands-strong mob attacks police station, burns man to death for alleged blasp

...and I never said Islam only ........for Christian crusaders destroyed Inca , Maya and Aztec civilization for the propagation of their religion ...