Re: Thousands-strong mob attacks police station, burns man to death for alleged blasp
That law is absolutely unnecessary and until it's repealed, this sort of thing will keep happening.
When Mullah's got the governement's sanction to deny Ahmadis of their basic rights, we told you guys that they will not be satisfied with just Ahmadis. When you let people believe that Islam needs their protection or that they have the ability to protect Islam, this sort of thing is the natural consequence.
Re: Thousands-strong mob attacks police station, burns man to death for alleged blasp
I see that diwana is back! Diwana uncle hum se kaya ghalati hoi thi jo aap saza dainy wapis aa gaye?
waisy aap aqalmand bun jain... deewanon ko mobs maar daity hain
Re: Thousands-strong mob attacks police station, burns man to death for alleged blasp
Uncle? 
Bhai yeh meri ghalati hai. Aap Ki nahin. Muaafi Ka Talabgaar hoon. 
Oh by the way I have nothing against Ahmadis or any minority to condemn them to ‘death’. I just thought I need to clarify. I even hate any sectarian mumbo jumbo as you can see from my earlier posts.
Re: Thousands-strong mob attacks police station, burns man to death for alleged blasp
Your dodging the question. Meri jaan, it only takes a few dead bodies to make roaches scatter. Still the point isn’t whether you can defeat them or not, its whether you should try. And poLICE ARE AUTHORIZED TO.
Go back and read . IF i didn’t say it outright initially, its because we assume that people are intelligent enough (or at least we thought) to understand that we are not simply saying shoot people for no apparent reason.
Secondly, i realize i am wasting my time with you because you don’t understand the basic premise here. YOU in this hypothetical situation are a police officer. YOU have the means to stop these people. You are allowed to use and are required to use lethal FORCE. This is basic stuff. And police around the world resort to lethal force if the situation requires. Why is this so complicated for you to understand.?
Should I spend my entire day researching something that is common knowledge… That you either don’t know this or ignore it just screams ignorance.
Deadly force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Reviewing and analyzing police use of deadly force
And no we can’t forget you because you obnoxiously call others inhumane, when you you yourself are insanely ignorant of how the police are supposed to function.
You advocate running from a mob and abdicating your duties, even though you have the means to prevent a crazed mob from committing murder.
You would run only if you had no means of defending yourself. In our scenario, you did have the means to defend yourself and stop the mob, you simply have to choose the option.
When ALL non Lethal means have been exhausted, police are authorized to use deadly force, this is how it works. Its not rocket science. It applies to individual, and it applies to mobs.
In our case, the mob was out of control. Again, how would you stop them.. Running away like a coward is not an option. Just answer the question.
There is no argument here, because you really had no point.
Police CANNOT abdicate their duty, they are allowed to use lethal force, and are required to use lethal force when necessary. Remember, at the point at which a mob is out of control, no means of controlling them is possible, and pose a threat to safety, they are no longer innocent.
Again… How would YOU stop this mob, assuming you have the mens to stop them using lethal methods, since all non lethal methods have been used.
PS: According to one report on this forum, the police officers posted at the cell of the victim, said they considered using lethal force when they saw the crazed dogs approaching them, but were over powered. So as you can see, they didn’t simply surrender the man as you would have.
Re: Thousands-strong mob attacks police station, burns man to death for alleged blasp
Your the biggest humanitarian on the board!
Re: Thousands-strong mob attacks police station, burns man to death for alleged blasp
Experience has taught me never ever to debate the one and only undefeated diwana. Whatever you say I agree to - no ifsor buts. Khalas!
Re: Thousands-strong mob attacks police station, burns man to death for alleged blasp
First: Both of your links do not have anything common to the thread topic.
Second: The articles talk about someone using firearm(s) against police officer or civilian(s).
Third: No firearm was directed from the mob towards policemen in the scenario in question here.
Fourth: There would not have been any per-determined thought among the police officers that the mob would actually kill by burning the man.
Fifth: Both of your articles have lots of controversial judgements and the article by Mr. Dwyer mentioned the legalities of using force, NOT supporting the use of force as a default gesture, granted it did not even talk about what to be done against an angry mob. No example whatsoever there. He even talks about wrongful use of force being cause for concern.
Try again. 
In our scenario, police had no means to stop, not even by using any lethal force. Mob was not even after police. So no self defense case can be cited as example. Not even use of a fake gun cited here.
Yes, condoning any mass murder in this situation is inhumane. Mob acted inhumanely and you are asking police to act inhumanely. My friend I am talking about prior to actual burning death of this poor man, policemen would not have known the fate of this man.
All they had to do is to save their lives if they had used any lethal means. How many they could have killed? The moment few of mob members died, rest of mob members would have subdued the police officers and most likely killed them too. You are asking something unrealistic.
This needs to be stopped. No one in any civilized country does it. Start living in modern world.
Re: Thousands-strong mob attacks police station, burns man to death for alleged blasp
Fast Rewind .
the Dark Ages in Europe .
Church grants authority for Inquisition with unlimited power to not only extract confession and then execution .
all in the name of God .... whether god was aware of it , or approved it did not mattered ] ..to mortals with vested interest ..
results ... though the exact numbers cannot be determined ..but a guesstimates put is around a million or two ... as Spanish Inquisition lasted nearly a 100 years....
All authority to Man, in the name of God , without God approval ...
the same is the case here .... clergy wants absolute powers , the power to decide about the fate of anyone they don't like for whatever reason ... thats why a man made law 295 whatever ...is made to appear as a God's made law ...since it takes inspiration from a such law ....
and since that law will give Clergy the absolute power to misuse , just like the granting of Authority by the Church ...and without questioning ...thats why they raise hell ...whenever even the suggestion to rationalize is given.
and to show the ability of their clout ...such incidents are instigated and encouraged....
the man was supposed to be mentally unstable... and in the process of getting him to lynch ... a constable home ,...with the dowry of her daughter and two Qurans were burned makes me wonder where then the blasphemy laws go ....or is it selective ] ..and then he was burned Alive...
Shame ...what a shame ...what a shame.... makes me wonder ....Is Islam really a religion of peace...??
Re: Thousands-strong mob attacks police station, burns man to death for alleged blasp
by the way ...it is said ...about 90-95% cases of blasphemy in Pakistan gets acquittal , meaning they are fakes ,and are registered just to get even or on a grudge or with some other ulterior motive , like to get someone's land ...etc...
But But But...... it ruins the l lives of the accused ..and take on average over 5 -8 year to prove his innocence......and with no law to punish , rather the law for false accusation not applied .... the accusers goes scott free.... with satisfaction of taking enough revenge from his victim...
Re: Thousands-strong mob attacks police station, burns man to death for alleged blasp
Same old ranting.
What is this got to do with Islam? If some idiots say it is something to do with their version ‘Islam’ and other vast majority say it is not, people like you take idiots position as valid? 
Such a smart person you are! 
Re: Thousands-strong mob attacks police station, burns man to death for alleged blasp
Your predictable. I knew you would complain about the links. Point here is that POLICE are allowed to use lethal force. There is no question about that. Its only under what circumstances. If the police feel that there is an imminent threat, that cannot be put down through non lethal means, then they are allowed to use lethal force. This is common knowledge. That you refuse to acknowledge this just tells me your argument is not based on facts but your own ego’s inability to admit your wrong. its ok.
The Article says that at any point where the police feel they are threatened, or there is a threat to another person or persons, they are allowed to use lethal force IF NO OTHER MEANS TO SUBDUE THE ASSAILANT OR ASSAILANTS IS AVAILABLE OR VIABLE. The mob in question could not be controlled through non lethal means, hence the Police are allowed to use lethal force. Simple as that. but I’m sure you ego is working over time to find some lame loop hole.
Your third point is mental. FIRST of all, the police are trained to spot a threat such as this, second when a mob is rabid as those sob’s were, the police can be pretty damn sure they are going to kill the person. your logic is so beyond ridiculous, I can’t imagine how you actually sat there and came up with something like this. By your logic, Police in India were by no means guilty of allowing insane mobs to butcher Muslims because they couldn’t have known for certain that the Muslims were going to be butchered.
Your fourth point is also lame. Although I didn’t have to waste my time actually researching a point that is beyond contention, I actually did for the sake of humoring you. The point was to demonstrate that LETHAL force IS permissible under certain circumstances. The use of force is not a default gesture, its a necessity. Are you going to tell me that the police should simply step aside and allow a mob to murder a person or persons? Are you out of your mind? The police are allowed to use all means at their disposal, which includes lethal force, as long as its a last resort.
The police in our scenario DID have Machine guns. However, could they have used these guns successfully i can’t say, but they are authorized to use these weapons (Or are they there just for decoration?)
And THE MOB WASNT EVEN AFTER THE POLICE!
Do you even know what the job of a police officer is?!?!?! What reality are u living in? The duty of the Police is to protect and uphold the law. Controlling the mob, whether they are attacking the police or someone else, is the job of the POLICE!
I see what your problem is. You don’t have any clue as to the basic functions of police or I’m guessing, any other servant of the state.
The Police are NOT ONLY responsible for their own live, but also the lives of others. That means that if someone else’s life is in imminent danger, and there are no means of protecting the person or persons without resorting to lethal means, then lethal means are authorized. For example, a number of plane highjackings and hostage situations have ended in the death of the hostage takers, even though they did not pose a threat to Police. So there goes another of your arguments.
Condoning MASS murder by vigilante’s and mobs is of course condemnable. But, when the Police are forced to use lethal force, its not considered murder because they are authorized as circumstances warrant. Police use of lethal force is only questioned in terms of whether or not it was justified, however, that they have the authority to use such force is unquestionable. The state gives authority to Police to use force, with the understanding that they will use this force only when justified and with due prudence.
Also, the police aren’t a mob themselves. Their use of lethal force is only up to a point where the assailant or assailants are subdued. If the mob disperses, the police can’t simply continue shooting at them. Even then there is a limit.
The Police have to assume the worst. Many people have died because even though their intention was not to do harm, their actions portrayed a threat and so they were put down. Either way, the police can’t simply hope the mob will be nice and cooperate. Are you so naive as to think that the mob was going to glare at the poor victim and let him go?
Lastly, you don’t understand basic human psychology. People aren’t insane. They don’t want to die. People who rush head first in a hail of bulllets do so because they were indoctrinated into it and prepared, or trained for it. Suicide bombers are brainwashed into it, soldiers are trained to do it. Normal human beings naturally take cover when they see the guy ahead of them has been shot. At the very least, they could have stalled the SOB’s while reinforcements arrive.
Regardless, our debate hasn’t been about whether the police had the capacity to use lethal force, or whether or not such means were viable, but rather, whether or not they are authorized to do so and would they be justified. The answer is the Police ARE authorized to fire on the mob as long as all other means are exhausted, AND given what was happening, they would also be 100 percent justified since tear gas had not worked.
Finally, what you consider to be “humane,” I consider cowardly abdication of duty. And to be honest, I’m actualy ashamed for you. You might think abandoning your responsibilities is something of a merit, but I think its pathetic. And as you mentioned THE FAMILY I would be thinking of as I’m running away, according to you, I would add that if self respect, and the respect of my family and peers is something I truly value, facing that family after having abandoned my post and living with that sharum, is a fate worse then death. I’m certain you however, would live long and prosper knowing you saved your own hide. 
Re: Thousands-strong mob attacks police station, burns man to death for alleged blasp
Sir!
Could you work a little harder and find a relevant article or news where police did use ‘lethal’ force towards an angry mob and that was considered acceptable.
You have given examples of an individual with firearm threatening the life of policeman or any other person and then the policeman or policemen may be justified using firearms.
I tried, but could not find any incidence where unarmed but angry mob despite injuring officials and destroying public properties were handled by police force by lethal weapons.
Tear gas/rubber bullets, manhandling, handcuffing, barricades, and so on is the standard way of treating an angry mob. Use of firearm is not an acceptable method in these kind of situations. Get this?
Your links as I mentioned earlier do NOT relate to the topic at hand. Sorry. 
In last paragraph, You are merely being emotional and writing unrealistic ideas.
If you were a policeman there, I repeat, you would not have used lethal weapon. And that’s the reality!
Re: Thousands-strong mob attacks police station, burns man to death for alleged blasp
Your predictable.
No point in arguing with Taliban/terrorist supporters. They have on tract mind & that is they are right and everyone else is wrong & no rational argument will convince them otherwise. And, if you disagree with them you are wajib-ul-katul.
Re: Thousands-strong mob attacks police station, burns man to death for alleged blasp
You think anyone who disputes your skewed and twisted mind is taliban supporter?
Very phunny but below the belt!
The thread has never been about any taliban or their deeds. Read above all posts again.
You saw silence was coming on his end and came to rescue.
Can you answer my question instead? 
Re: Thousands-strong mob attacks police station, burns man to death for alleged blasp
you picked my comment " Is Islam really a religion of peace…??" …and concluded its same old ranting..?? very good
so why this barbarism , surfaces times and again…and again…and again. …!!
I Actually compared the 295 C law with the Sanctioning letter issued by the Church Authority to grant Inquisition rights .
both were/are man made …both hide behind Religious LAWS , both were /are vehemently defended by those who are/were given this authority …and both are/were and will be used to actually settle personal scores , as an INSTRUMENT to terrorize …while hiding behind the divinity of the messages
of course you can still cherry pick my comment …!~
Re: Thousands-strong mob attacks police station, burns man to death for alleged blasp
For me Religion is nothing , but a powerful tool of control , and religious clergy no matter of whichever religion seeks and constructs and demands such absolute rights to gain control ....
of course they all hide behind the Divinity of the creator.
Re: Thousands-strong mob attacks police station, burns man to death for alleged blasp
That law is absolutely unnecessary and until it's repealed, this sort of thing will keep happening.
When Mullah's got the governement's sanction to deny Ahmadis of their basic rights, we told you guys that they will not be satisfied with just Ahmadis. When you let people believe that Islam needs their protection or that they have the ability to protect Islam, this sort of thing is the natural consequence.
What this man said. A law discriminating against any minority is against Islam and basic elements of democracy.
Also Ahmadies can finally admit they aren't Muslims. That would help a great deal as well.
Re: Thousands-strong mob attacks police station, burns man to death for alleged blasp
Exit God, enter madness Nadeem F. Paracha |
Yet again, the nation heard and saw its faith and holy texts being ‘avenged’ not by God-fearing men, but by a mob of retarded, subhuman filth.
Almost all leading media outlets in the country carried the horrific story. And so did the western media that continues to scratch its head trying to figure out just how inflammable and helplessly retarded Pakistan’s state institutions, judiciary, politics and society have become. ** The self-claimed ‘bastion of Islam’ has gradually mutated into becoming a **bastion of deluded messiahs and mindless, violent ranting machines to whom anything, from incoherent malangs to the reopening of Nato supply routes, are conspiracies against Islam.
Hear hear. NFP is the only reason I read Dawn.
Re: Thousands-strong mob attacks police station, burns man to death for alleged blasp
these molvies need to be put away.........the only real option is to spread real education to poor masses.....
Re: Thousands-strong mob attacks police station, burns man to death for alleged blasp
you picked my comment " Is Islam really a religion of peace...??" ...and **concluded **its same old ranting..?? very good
so why this barbarism , surfaces times and again...and again...and again. ...!!
I Actually compared the 295 C law with the Sanctioning letter issued by the Church Authority to grant Inquisition rights .
both were/are man made ....both hide behind Religious LAWS , both were /are vehemently defended by those who are/were given this authority ...and both are/were and will be used to actually settle personal scores , as an INSTRUMENT to terrorize ...while hiding behind the divinity of the messages
of course you can still cherry pick my comment ...!~
For me Religion is nothing , but a powerful tool of control , and religious clergy no matter of whichever religion seeks and constructs and demands such absolute rights to gain control .... of course they all hide behind the Divinity of the creator.
I picked out the essence of your post, based on 'your conclusion' I did not do anything new!
Your own post ended "Is Islam really a religion of peace"?
OK: This sad event was because of a group of people took the matter in to their hands for one or the other reasons.
I never supported their action.
The law as you claim to have read has nothing to do with these people acting as mob. Mob acted outside the law.
It's not like police or administration asked them or encouraged them to come and raid the jail. Clear?
I have already wrote solution(s) to these scenarios. Strict rule of law and justice. Punishing the culprits by due process is one of those.
Again you were dead wrong when tried to blame Islam for actions of mob and concluded your post as such.
If people misuse religion or any law then its not the fault of religion or the law.
Try to see the event from unbiased eyes.