Thousands-strong mob attacks police station, burns man to death for alleged blasphemy

[superman85]

Re: Thousands-strong mob attacks police station, burns man to death for alleged blasp

I think if this mob-mentality is to be defined in one word, it’s terrorism. Plain and simple.

It’s just about a few criminal-minded people getting together, bringing in a couple of hundred low-class scums of the earth and doing the dirty deed. If it was one guy killing then it would be easier to pin the murder on him, but a hundred of thousand strong mob? Forget about any and all justice.

And the sad part is that these types of events are increasing in the country, whether it’s blasphemy related cases, personal grudges, or even against petty thieves and dacoits. I say nip the evil in the bud - it’ll be darn near impossible to control this disturbing trend if it gathers further pace.

[Southie]

Re: Thousands-strong mob attacks police station, burns man to death for alleged blasp

There are no two sides to every issue. Sometimes there is only one side which is correct. It is the duty of law enforcement to protect those under custody. That the mob was 1 strong or 1000 strong is irrelevant. And using even deadly force against the mob to save an innocent life cannot and should not be compared with mass murder.

[diwana]

Re: Thousands-strong mob attacks police station, burns man to death for alleged blasp

I'm not promoting killings, but there are some people who don't deserve to live...like the people who killed this mentally ill man. Its also matter of rule of law that you failed to see. Polices jobs was to protect this man from the mob no matter what. It was their official duty & if that meant killing these rabid mullahs so be it.

I have & police should have used all force needed to defend themselves & lynched victim. And what 2 sides of wrong do you see in this? Oh, wait, you're jihadi/taliban sympathiser...so it is expected that you'd sympathize with mullahs who killed this poor man.

Now you are proving what I said in my first post in this thread and what was edited. Go figure!

My dear, I said two wrongs. Meaning on one hand the mob was wrong and on other hand there is lack of will on the part of system to protect a person's life.

Already mentioned I never supported mob action. Are you having problem understanding simple English?

Remember! Violence or any blood shed begets violence and further blood shedding.

No one is advocating violence for the sake of violence. The point you keep missing is that at some point lethal force is justified and should be used. Police everywhere are authorized to use lethal force when all other means are exhausted. This isn't being inhumane, its being realistic. Im sorry if reality offends you. And for God sakes, get of your high horse. No one is advocating mass murder. The genius that you are, u seem incapable of understanding that it is the responsibility of police to use all means at their disposal to prevent what occurred. Its not difficult concept, but then you are who you are afterall.

.... You failed to tell us what u would have done if you were the policemen in charge. How would you prevent what happened? Tell us all what the great humanitarian would do. I can tell u in advance that condescending lectures aren't going to work on those fanatic scum.

Solution lies in finding non lethal means. Period. Arrest people, put them in jail for long time. Use media to reduce violence. Monitor speeches of individuals, stop people to promote violence. Use legal ways to deter extremists. Educate general population etc. etc.

The jails need to be made stronger no doubt about it. Not to protect just the prisoners but also the policemen.
**
Using lethal means has long term ill-effects. **

Anyhow, I called you matti ke sher for a reason. Those who are thinking it would be easy for the police members to shoot at mob and get away with it in this kind of situation, are ignoring the power of mob.

It is easy to be a keyboard warrior sitting comfortably behind the computer demanding for mob killing, but even if you were there with a rifle as a police member, you would have run for your life faster than anyone!.....I can bet on it! :)

[Faris_Udeen]

Re: Thousands-strong mob attacks police station, burns man to death for alleged blasp

[QUOTE]
Anyhow, I called you matti ke sher for a reason. ** Those who are thinking it would be easy for the police members to shoot at mob and get away with it in this kind of situation, are ignoring the power of mob.

**
It is easy to be a keyboard warrior sitting comfortably behind the computer demanding for mob killing, but even if you were there with a rifle as a police member, you would have run for your life faster than anyone!.....I can bet on it! :)
[/QUOTE]

Definately agree with this point, which I made earlier..

I'm with you on this one Diwana. One cant balance one wrong with another... yes police should defend themselves as a last resort but calling for a massacre is as flawed as the original mob mentality, hence why I pointed out every other means should be employed and exhausted before lethal force.

[mAd_ScIeNtIsT]

Re: Thousands-strong mob attacks police station, burns man to death for alleged blasp

Interesting, so you guys are saying that to protect 'one person' police should have killed people in hundreds.

If you see a man trying to kill another man, and you have no way of stopping him other than killing him, is it not better to kill the guy who is trying to commit murder?

If you see a 2 men trying to kill another man, and you have no way of stopping him other than killing him, is it not better to kill the 2 guys who are trying to commit murder?

If you see a 10 men trying to kill another man, and you have no way of stopping him other than killing him, is it not better to kill the 10 guys who are trying to commit murder?

If you see a 100 men trying to kill another man, and you have no way of stopping him other than killing him, is it not better to kill the 100 guys who are trying to commit murder?

If you see a 1000 men trying to kill another man, and you have no way of stopping him other than killing him, is it not better to kill the 1000 guys who are trying to commit murder?

[Silaaj]

Re: Thousands-strong mob attacks police station, burns man to death for alleged blasp

guys, all will be well, President has taken the notice and ordered RM to conduct an inquiry.

why cant they just abolish this man made law? that was misused and has taken so many innocent lives over the years. this entire mob should be charged with murder.

What makes you think abolishing this law will bring about any change in our people? People in Pakistan use their so called love for Islam as a weapon and a defense shield. Chances are, any government that abolishes this law, or even talks about it, will not return.

Whats needed is a collective change of mindset. We are more than happy to let people rape, loot, plunder, backbite and murder, but if someone even seems to be committing blasphemy, everyone and their uncle becomes the biggest custodian of Islam, as if the sanctity of Islam is dependent on these goons.

[Shamraz_Khan]

Re: Thousands-strong mob attacks police station, burns man to death for alleged blasp

Whats needed is a collective change of mindset.

Actually, what we need is education & secularization of the society. Otherwise, there is no hope for the country.

[Captain1]

Re: Thousands-strong mob attacks police station, burns man to death for alleged blasp

If you see a man trying to kill another man, and you have no way of stopping him other than killing him, is it not better to kill the guy who is trying to commit murder?

If you see a 2 men trying to kill another man, and you have no way of stopping him other than killing him, is it not better to kill the 2 guys who are trying to commit murder?

If you see a 10 men trying to kill another man, and you have no way of stopping him other than killing him, is it not better to kill the 10 guys who are trying to commit murder?

If you see a 100 men trying to kill another man, and you have no way of stopping him other than killing him, is it not better to kill the 100 guys who are trying to commit murder?

If you see a 1000 men trying to kill another man, and you have no way of stopping him other than killing him, is it not better to kill the 1000 guys who are trying to commit murder?

I'll take that as difference of opinion.

[diwana]

Re: Thousands-strong mob attacks police station, burns man to death for alleged blasp

Definately agree with this point, which I made earlier..

I'm with you on this one Diwana. One cant balance one wrong with another... yes police should defend themselves as a last resort but calling for a massacre is as flawed as the original mob mentality, hence why I pointed out every other means should be employed and exhausted before lethal force.

Thank you.

Some people here are looking this as one incidence and thinking what they believe the action should have been taken would have solved the issue. But that is being short sighted.

One should look for bigger picture and better long term solution(s).

---

.....And what is this has to do with being secular or religious country? Lots of religious countries are on the map of this earth without similar problem.

Certainly there is an agenda which some people want to push forward using this or similar incidences. ;)

[Sa1eem]

Re: Thousands-strong mob attacks police station, burns man to death for alleged blasp

Definately agree with this point, which I made earlier..

I'm with you on this one Diwana. One cant balance one wrong with another... yes police should defend themselves as a last resort but calling for a massacre is as flawed as the original mob mentality, hence why I pointed out every other means should be employed and exhausted before lethal force.

I believe you live in India.

Now suppose one of your Hindu neighbours, for whatever reason, decided to kill you (maybe he do not like you being Muslim or have property dispute or whatever). He accused you that you made fun of his cow and that means you deserved to get killed. He gathered a group, gave fiery speech, raised their religious temperature, and made them agree that you should be lynched to death.

To save your life you ran to nearest police station and took refuge there. Anyhow, your Hindu neighbour took his gathered crowd as mob to police station demanding police to hand you over to them so that they can kill you, and when police resisted they attacked the police station.

What you think police should do?

A: Should they capitulate in front of the mob with excuse that they cannot do anything in front of the mob, as that would endanger their own life, and thus hand you over to the mob so that they can lynch you to death?

Or

B: Defend you at whatever cost, even if they have to call army and if required to fire on mob live bullets and kill many in the mob to stop them reaching and lynching you?

Note: My answer is ‘B’ regardless of whoever is the victim under protection and in whatever country ... and I believe that those who answer ‘A‘, they are no different from people in the mob and deserve same treatment what they like for others.

Actually, I also believe that such mobs are crowd of cowards and it is inaction of police that they get the courage to lynch others on their like and dislike. If police or law enforcement agencies, to protect life and property of other citizens, would start shooting directly at such mob killing these devils indiscriminately, that would not be unlawful or wrong, rather that is what a police should do as duty, and if they would do that, shoot at such mob, indiscriminately if needed, to save life of other civilians from getting lynched, then such evil from society, that is spreading in Pakistan fast, would stop.

[Captain1]

Re: Thousands-strong mob attacks police station, burns man to death for alleged blasp

Actually, I also believe that such mobs are crowd of cowards and it is inaction of police that they get the courage to lynch others on their like and dislike. If police or law enforcement agencies, to protect life and property of other citizens, would start shooting directly at such mob killing these devils indiscriminately, that would not be unlawful or wrong, rather that is what a police should do as duty, and if they would do that, shoot at such mob, indiscriminately if needed, to save life of other civilians from getting lynched,** then such evil from society, that is spreading in Pakistan fast, would stop.**

Not really, you don't start killing people to stop the spread of a fitna which is based on lack of justice, you reform your justice system so people start trusting justice system and when they run into issue like this they don't have to act like a mob.

[diwana]

Re: Thousands-strong mob attacks police station, burns man to death for alleged blasp

Not really, you don't start killing people to stop the spread of a fitna which is based on lack of justice, you reform your justice system so people start trusting justice system and when they run into issue like this they don't have to act like a mob.

Yes!

[Sa1eem]

Re: Thousands-strong mob attacks police station, burns man to death for alleged blasp

Not really, you don't start killing people to stop the spread of a fitna which is based on lack of justice, you reform your justice system so people start trusting justice system and when they run into issue like this they don't have to act like a mob.

But what you call lack of justice?

If these mobs want to fight lack of justice in Pakistan, then they should attack law makers and law implementers, not innocent people living their lives according to their beliefs, religious or whatever. But then, these mobs themselves are criminals, lawbreakers, un-Islamic and morally corrupt, who love lawlessness and injustices in Pakistan. If there was justice in Pakistan, all in such mobs would get hanged.

Actually, what these mobs are doing is not fighting lack of justice, but they are creating fitna to persecute and victimise whoever (or whose beliefs) they do not like. For doing that, they gather in mob, start their frenzy of crime, and throw all laws out of window.

As for Blasphemy laws in Pakistan, that in itself is Un-Islamic and unjust, as it punishes one group of people for displaying their beliefs (be that belief real or accusation of Blasphemy) and leave the other (those who persecute in the name of Blasphemy, rightly or wrongly, creating fitna and criminals who gather as mob ... same criminals who victimise people with their accusations according to their whim).

[Southie]

Re: Thousands-strong mob attacks police station, burns man to death for alleged blasp

Definately agree with this point, which I made earlier..

I'm with you on this one Diwana. One cant balance one wrong with another... yes police should defend themselves as a last resort but calling for a massacre is as flawed as the original mob mentality, hence why I pointed out every other means should be employed and exhausted before lethal force.

Faris bhai- I don't believe anyone advocated lethal force as the first option. We all agree lethal force shouuld be the last resort and all other means should be exhausted. But if necessary lethal force should be used to protect the innocent against a raging mob. This last sentence is consistent with your last sentence.

[diwana]

Re: Thousands-strong mob attacks police station, burns man to death for alleged blasp

Still waiting for someone to bring random shooting on an angry mob as example to solve the issue.

Most of these kind of events are handled by ‘civilized’ police by non-lethal measures.

You just cannot kill people at large like this, even if you are the bravest of the bravest policeman.

Keyboard warriors or Nintendo players exempted.

[Med911]

Re: Thousands-strong mob attacks police station, burns man to death for alleged blasp

Now you are proving what I said in my first post in this thread and what was edited. Go figure!

My dear, I said two wrongs. Meaning on one hand the mob was wrong and on other hand there is lack of will on the part of system to protect a person's life.

Already mentioned I never supported mob action. Are you having problem understanding simple English?

Remember! Violence or any blood shed begets violence and further blood shedding.

Solution lies in finding non lethal means. Period. Arrest people, put them in jail for long time. Use media to reduce violence. Monitor speeches of individuals, stop people to promote violence. Use legal ways to deter extremists. Educate general population etc. etc.

The jails need to be made stronger no doubt about it. Not to protect just the prisoners but also the policemen. ** Using lethal means has long term ill-effects. **

Anyhow, I called you matti ke sher for a reason. Those who are thinking it would be easy for the police members to shoot at mob and get away with it in this kind of situation, are ignoring the power of mob.

It is easy to be a keyboard warrior sitting comfortably behind the computer demanding for mob killing, but even if you were there with a rifle as a police member, you would have run for your life faster than anyone!.....I can bet on it! :)

Try again. We already said that ALL non violent means have been exhausted. No one wants to use to lethal force if it can be avoided. Now you are tasked with defending the prisoner and preventing any further damage.
The mob is about to attack you, you have a machine gun, and everything else has failed, what are you going to do? Tick toc tick toc.

The consequences at this point are an after thought. In the present moment, your duty is to protect the prisoner and defeat the mob. Are you going to shoot to kill or are you going to step aside and let them kill the prisoner as they did? Give us a genuine answer.

Its easy to be a keyboard saint such that you are, but when you have actual responsibilities then you have to make choices. You would run only if you do NOT have the capacity to defend the place. HOWEVER, in our situation, YOU HAVE THE MEANS OF PREVENTING THE MOB, and that involveS shooting them dead. You as a police officer are allowed to and are required to stop this mob by all means. Now, decide are you going to employ the means to stop this mob, which means killing, or are you going to run instead and let them take the prisoner?

Try to think, your bleeding heart is affecting the your reasoning skills. All the non violent solutions you gave me I could have dictated to you. The question is of what you would do at the moment, not before or after. But at that moment, if you had the means,

[ninja_hattori]

Re: Thousands-strong mob attacks police station, burns man to death for alleged blasp

@Sa1eem

I believe you live in India.

Now suppose one of your Hindu neighbours, for whatever reason, decided to kill you (maybe he do not like you being Muslim or have property dispute or whatever). He accused you that you made fun of his cow and that means you deserved to get killed. He gathered a group, gave fiery speech, raised their religious temperature, and made them agree that you should be lynched to death.

To save your life you ran to nearest police station and took refuge there. Anyhow, your Hindu neighbour took his gathered crowd as mob to police station demanding police to hand you over to them so that they can kill you, and when police resisted they attacked the police station.

What you think police should do?

A: Should they capitulate in front of the mob with excuse that they cannot do anything in front of the mob, as that would endanger their own life, and thus hand you over to the mob so that they can lynch you to death?

Or

B: Defend you at whatever cost, even if they have to call army and if required to fire on mob live bullets and kill many in the mob to stop them reaching and lynching you?

Note: My answer is ‘B’ regardless of whoever is the victim under protection and in whatever country … and I believe that those who answer ‘A‘, they are no different from people in the mob and deserve same treatment what they like for others.

Actually, I also believe that such mobs are crowd of cowards and it is inaction of police that they get the courage to lynch others on their like and dislike. If police or law enforcement agencies, to protect life and property of other citizens, would start shooting directly at such mob killing these devils indiscriminately, that would not be unlawful or wrong, rather that is what a police should do as duty, and if they would do that, shoot at such mob, indiscriminately if needed, to save life of other civilians from getting lynched, then such evil from society, that is spreading in Pakistan fast, would stop.

Sir please read these two articles and behavior of indian police in similar situation…

Slaughter of the Dalits

Suspicious mob lynches 3 ‘bahurupiyas’ - Times Of India

[Southie]

Re: Thousands-strong mob attacks police station, burns man to death for alleged blasp

@ninja_hattori

Sir please read these two articles and behavior of indian police in similar situation…

Slaughter of the Dalits

Suspicious mob lynches 3 ‘bahurupiyas’ - Times Of India

Ninja please make your point. In the bahruoia case the police van was surrounded by the mob. Police were heavily outnumbered. In the skinning of cow case police behaved abominally. What does this have to do with Sa1eems question.

[diwana]

Re: Thousands-strong mob attacks police station, burns man to death for alleged blasp

Try again. We already said that ALL non violent means have been exhausted. No one wants to use to lethal force if it can be avoided. Now you are tasked with defending the prisoner and preventing any further damage. The mob is about to attack you, you have a machine gun, and everything else has failed, what are you going to do? Tick toc tick toc.

The consequences at this point are an after thought. In the present moment, your duty is to protect the prisoner and defeat the mob. Are you going to shoot to kill or are you going to step aside and let them kill the prisoner as they did? Give us a genuine answer.

Forget about me. Even you would not even use a machine gun. You would run thinking of your family being the first and knowing the consequences of using firearm towards an angry mob. I already said I bet on it. Still do. :)**

You are being completely unrealistic just for the sake of winning the argument.**

Its easy to be a keyboard saint such that you are, but when you have actual responsibilities then you have to make choices. You would run only if you do NOT have the capacity to defend the place. HOWEVER, in our situation, YOU HAVE THE MEANS OF PREVENTING THE MOB, and that involveS shooting them dead. You as a police officer are allowed to and are required to stop this mob by all means. Now, decide are you going to employ the means to stop this mob, which means killing, or are you going to run instead and let them take the prisoner?

**My dear, you cannot prevent an angry mob. Just cannot. Read the news and similar scenarios.

Even the countries/police force with all the means available at their disposal cannot completely deter an angry mob. These police forces know lethal means will only make the matter worse. Wake up to reality..now!** ** ** Try to think, your bleeding heart is affecting the your reasoning skills. All the non violent solutions you gave me I could have dictated to you. The question is of what you would do at the moment, not before or after. But at that moment, if you had the means,

No you did not bring the non-violent solutions. Didn't even think about these, in the heat of your emotions.

Now can I have the answer?

Where in the world any civilized and fully equipped police force uses lethal force/shooting real bullets/machine gun against an angry civilion mob even as the last resort?

Third time I am asking the same question.

If you cannot answer the question, then ..never mind. :)

[diwana]

Re: Thousands-strong mob attacks police station, burns man to death for alleged blasp

@Southie

Ninja please make your point. In the bahruoia case the police van was surrounded by the mob. Police were heavily outnumbered. In the skinning of cow case police behaved abominally. What does this have to do with Sa1eems question.

So far you have been liking all the posts condoning the mass killing till the example of India came forward.

Great, just great.