The west

[IsaidwhatIsaid]

Re: The west

@Pakistani_Prince

It does.

Definition: **Incest is sexual activity between family members or close relatives.[SUP][1]](Incest - Wikipedia)[/SUP][SUP][2]](Incest - Wikipedia)[/SUP] This typically includes sexual activity between people in a consanguineous relationship (blood relations)

**Last time I check, you are blood related to your cousins. You share an average of 12.5% of DNA with cousins

[Obama]

Re: The west

@SID_NY

Even if we put religions aside these are two different definitions of incest different people are talking about. And I think one is free to pick whatever they think is right.

In west, yes the definition broadcasted is the same that cousins relationship is incest as well. and that too is since the recent past. Go few decades back and cousins marriage was a norm.

Not in east. In east its direct siblings or its not.

Pick any you want. As long as you are satisfied, who cares.

And if you go all the way West to Hawaii, custom in their Royal Family was since Women ruled the Queen would always marry her Brother to keep the wealth etc within the Family so to speak!

[third_string]

Re: The west

@IsaidwhatIsaid

Definition: **Incest is sexual activity between family members or close relatives.[SUP][1]](Incest - Wikipedia)[/SUP][SUP][2]](Incest - Wikipedia)[/SUP] This typically includes sexual activity between people in a consanguineous relationship (blood relations)

**Last time I check, you are blood related to your cousins. You share an average of 12.5% of DNA with cousins

I’m no supporter of cousin marriages however you’re using dictionary defintions that change over time and don’t take culture into context. You’re using the western/white definition of what constitutes incest and under most eastern defitions cousin marriages are not considered incest. Now on a personal level i do consider it incest but that doesn’t apply to all brown people. Also you share dna with peoplw from the same ethnicity and tribe as you so I guess you should only marry people from a totally different race then?

[SID_NY]

Re: The west

@Obama

And if you go all the way West to Hawaii, custom in their Royal Family was since Women ruled the Queen would always marry her Brother to keep the wealth etc within the Family so to speak!

Now thats a real time GoT

[Pakistani_Prince]

Re: The west

@IsaidwhatIsaid

Definition: **Incest is sexual activity between family members or close relatives.[SUP][1]](Incest - Wikipedia)[/SUP][SUP][2]](Incest - Wikipedia)[/SUP] This typically includes sexual activity between people in a consanguineous relationship (blood relations)

**Last time I check, you are blood related to your cousins. You share an average of 12.5% of DNA with cousins

Glad that you googled it and ended up finding this defination
well the standard that you have used to check whether a relationship is incestious or not, is certainly not correct.. The defination of incest lies in a question and that is “why is incest considered forbidden ?” Simply because it creates genetic problems in coming generations. Is not it so ? I still remember reading a medical report which says that the chances of catching genetic problems are comparatively low in case of cousin marriages as compared to direct blood relatives ( mother father sister brother and siblings of mother and father ) and problems come only when cousins marry each other generations after generations within a family. Well that says a lot.
I have another defination of incest too which is “spoiling the relation” but since you only understand the language of science, let’s not go there .

[IsaidwhatIsaid]

Re: The west

@third_string

I’m no supporter of cousin marriages however you’re using dictionary defintions that change over time and don’t take culture into context. You’re using the western/white definition of what constitutes incest and under most eastern defitions cousin marriages are not considered incest. Now on a personal level i do consider it incest but that doesn’t apply to all brown people. Also you share dna with peoplw from the same ethnicity and tribe as you so I guess you should only marry people from a totally different race then?

I don’t give a damn about “cultural context.” We can consider it to be whatever we want it to be. Does not change the fact that we share considerable amounts of DNA with our cousins and it doesn’t change reality. Sharing DNA with people of the same ethnicity is not the same as sharing DNA with your literal relatives. People really love to act obtuse about this huh?

Reals before feels.

[IsaidwhatIsaid]

Re: The west

@Pakistani_Prince

Glad that you googled it and ended up finding this defination
well the standard that you have used to check whether a relationship is incestious or not, is certainly not correct.. The defination of incest lies in a question and that is “why is incest considered forbidden ?” Simply because it creates genetic problems in coming generations. Is not it so ? I still remember reading a medical report which says that the chances of catching genetic problems are comparatively low in case of cousin marriages as compared to direct blood relatives ( mother father sister brother and siblings of mother and father ) and problems come only when cousins marry each other generations after generations within a family. Well that says a lot.
I have another defination of incest too which is “spoiling the relation” but since you only understand the language of science, let’s not go there .

I took a dictionary definition because I am not dedicated enough to this “”“debate”“” to do anything further than that. Sure, cousin-cousin marriages have a lower chance of producing medical abnormalities, but that doesn’t change the fact that it is incest. You were trying to claim that cousin-cousin marriages aren’t considered incestuous because “the definition doesn’t support it.” I don’t care for your definition of anything if it is not grounded in anything.

[third_string]

Re: The west

@IsaidwhatIsaid

I don’t give a damn about “cultural context.” We can consider it to be whatever we want it to be. Does not change the fact that we share considerable amounts of DNA with our cousins and it doesn’t change reality. Sharing DNA with people of the same ethnicity is not the same as sharing DNA with your literal relatives. People really love to act obtuse about this huh?

Reals before feels.

But isn’t that like white supremacy? In paki culture that isn’t incest so you’re calling pakis and middle eastern people “inbred”, that’s culturally insensitive. I think you’re smarter than to support white supremacy unless you’re another a nikki haley smh.

[IsaidwhatIsaid]

Re: The west

@third_string

But isn’t that like white supremacy? In paki culture that isn’t incest so you’re calling pakis and middle eastern people “inbred”, that’s culturally insensitive. I think you’re smarter than to support white supremacy unless you’re another a nikki haley smh.

Did you hurt yourself making that reach?

[third_string]

Re: The west

@IsaidwhatIsaid

Did you hurt yourself making that reach?

I have a Y chromosome, we don’t feel pain lool. You clearly support western definitions of desi/brown culture, that makes you a white supremacist (unfortunately).

[IsaidwhatIsaid]

Re: The west

@third_string

I have a Y chromosome, we don’t feel pain lool. You clearly support western definitions of desi/brown culture, that makes you a white supremacist (unfortunately).

That is totally exactly what I was trying to convey. You are totally the desi-skeptic whisperer.

[FreshBakedPi]

Re: The west

@IsaidwhatIsaid

That is totally exactly what I was trying to convey. You are totally the desi-skeptic whisperer.

I need to stop reading your posts when I’m eating… I choked I laughed so hard at “desi skeptic whisperer”… anyway.. pardon the intrusion… carry on!

[Captain_Obvious]

Re: The west

[quote=“Life01, post:1060, topic:226038”]

@IsaidwhatIsaid

I was more so trying to work out if living in a non Muslim country is okay from a religious point of view . so what the right thing to do is “religiously”. i did not word/ask the question correctly it should have said if there is anything in Quran or Hadith that either says its okay to live in such places or says its best not to and that living in Muslim/Islamic countries is encouraged religiously … more so for my own understanding/knowledge , not to move out next month.

you seem to think its insane to leave a place that offers a good life for the sake of a “so called Islamic environment”. My only point is that there actually is a difference between Islamic and non Muslim countries and this difference makes me think if it might religiously better to live in a place that encourages a more religious life-style or is the aim just to be religious whereever you are…

I remember a khutbah I heard a few years back. The Imam mentioned that we need to figure out a way to fulfill religious obligations and that living in the west doesn’t absolve us of them. I believe he was referring to 5 times salat. One of the things he mentioned was that if you can’t figure it out here (the west) then you should look into staying in a Muslim country.

[Damras]

Re: The west

**Birth defects are not related to cousin marriage
**
Please read what biological science has to say:

**Causes of birth defects
**
It was only in the 20th century that the causes ofparticular birth defects began to be recognized. Thecauses of birth defects are many and complex; evennow, approximately 50 percent of birth defects cannotbe ascribed to a specific cause (Nelson and Holmes,1989; Turnpenny and Ellard, 2005). However, knowncauses can be divided broadly into two groups: (1)genetic and partially genetic causes, originatingmostly before conception (preconception) and (2)causes developing after conception, but before birth(post-conception).

CAUSES ORIGINATING BEFORE CONCEPTION

Most birth defects originate before conception andare due to abnormalities of the genetic material—chromosomes and genes. Partially genetic birthdefects are due to a combination of genes that putsthe fetus at risk in the presence of specific environmentalfactors. Genetic abnormalities can be inherited,in which case they are found in families, or theycan occur as an isolated event in a particular pregnancy.They include chromosomal abnormalities,single gene defects and conditions known as multifactorialdisorders, which are caused by the interactionof genes and the environment.

CHROMOSOMAL ABNORMALITIES

Chromosomal abnormalities are due to changes inthe number or the structure of chromosomes fromthe normal state that result in a gain or loss of geneticmaterial. Such abnormalities account for approximately6 percent of birth defects in industrializedcountries (Turnpenny and Ellard, 2005). Downsyndrome, generally caused by an extra chromosome21 (trisomy 21), is the most common chromosomalabnormality in man. Described clinically byLangdon Down in 1866, it became the first birthdefect ascribed to a chromosomal disorder (Lejeuneet al., 1959).

SINGLE GENE DEFECTS

Single gene defects are caused by alterations in genestructure, called mutations, which result in abnormalcell functioning. More than 7,000 single gene defectshave been described (OMIM, 2000). The first clinicallydocumented single gene defect produced shorthands and fingers (brachydactyly) in a large Pennsylvanianfamily (Farabee, 1903). All single gene defectscombined account for an estimated 7.5 percent of allbirth defects in industrialized countries (Turnpennyand Ellard, 2005).

MULTIFACTORIAL DISORDERS

The concept of multifactorial inheritance (i.e., birthdefects due to complex genetic and environmentalinteraction) was proposed by Boris Ephrussi in1953 and is now broadly accepted (Passarge, 1995).Other terms to describe this etiological category—for example, non-Mendelian complex inheritance—have been used, but the term that remains in generaluse is multifactorial inheritance. This categoryaccounts for an estimated 20-30 percent of all birthdefects, a number of which are lethal (Turnpennyand Ellard, 2005). Examples of multifactorial birthdefects are numerous, are usually malformations ofa single organ system or limb, and include congenitalheart disease, neural tube defects, cleft lip and/or cleft palate, clubfoot and developmental dysplasiaof the hip.Multifactorial inheritance is also the cause ofthe many common diseases with a genetic predispositionthat present later in life, are usually systemicand do not involve malformations. Included amongthese disorders are hypertension, diabetes, stroke,mental disorders and cancer.

CAUSES ORIGINATING AFTER CONCEPTION

Causes of birth defects originating after conceptionare primarily non-genetic. In these disorders,the genetic material inherited by the fetus is normaland the birth defect is caused by an intra-uterineenvironmental factor. These include teratogens thatinterefere with normal growth and development ofthe embryo or fetus, mechanical forces that deformthe fetus, and vascular accidents that disrupt thenormal growth of organs. This category accounts foran estimated 5-10 percent of all birth defects (Nelsonand Holmes, 1989; Turnpenny and Ellard, 2005).Teratogens are broadly categorized into fivegroups: (1) physical agents such as radiation, (2)environmental pollutants like methyl mercury; (3)maternal illness or disturbances of the mother’smetabolism such as maternal insulin-dependentdiabetes mellitus or maternal iodine deficiency;(4) maternal infections, including rubella and toxoplasmosis;and (5) drugs, both medicinal and recreational(Seashore and Wappner, 1996).

UNKNOWN CAUSES

As noted above, a specific cause cannot be designatedin approximately 50 percent of all children born withbirth defects. Some of these birth defects may be dueto new autosomal dominant mutations, submicroscopicchromosome deletions or uniparental disomy(Turnpenny and Ellard, 2005). Causes for birthdefects continue to be identified, so the percentageof birth defects of unknown cause can be expectedto decrease in the future.

https://www.marchofdimes.org/materials/global-report-on-birth-defects-the-hidden-toll-of-dying-and-disabled-children-full-report.pdf

Question: Why do birth defects happen in the Western countries where cousin marriage is deemed as incest?

[Damras]

Re: The west

@IsaidwhatIsaid

Cousin-cousin marriage is incest because you and your cousins share grandparents.

Basically the people of west do not worry about marriage. They have toys, dolls, same sexes to have fun with and that is one way of birth control

Your definition of homosexuality is laughable. Homosexuality is being same-sex attracted. Last time I checked, it is literally just wanting to be romantically/sexually involved with the same sex and not whatever mumbo jumbo you typed up to make it seem disgusting.

In man to man homosexuality, isn’t it** the reproductive system attracted to the digestive system**?

Human-human attraction is natural because we are humans.

I’d take USA for your standard:

**Laws against **bestiality and sodomy in the **United States are largely a matter of **state rather than federal jurisdiction, except for **laws governing the District of Columbia and the U.S. Armed Forces. There is no federal **law which explicitly prohibits sex between humans and animals.

---

Bestiality/Zoophilia is characterized is a paraphilia which is “a condition characterized by abnormal sexual desires, typically involving extreme or dangerous activities.” It is considered abnormal because other animals and humans are different species. Not comparable, but of course the likes of you want to make that leap for, again, mental gymnastics.

Google again

You religious folk are truly a joke where you compare two humans with zoophilia trying to make homosexuality look absurd.

A man in love with his cat/dog is as abnormal and retarded as a man who’s in love with another man’s rectum.

Animals do not have the evolved mind that humans do. Animals can never give consent and they are of a different species.

Animals can’t give you consent in writing lol. They will actively participate in the act to give their consent. Or if a human being tries to force an animal, the beast might bite the reproductive part off him lol.

[IsaidwhatIsaid]

Re: The west

@Damras

Basically the people of west do not worry about marriage. They have toys, dolls, same sexes to have fun with and that is one way of birth control

In man to man homosexuality, isn’t it** the reproductive system attracted to the digestive system**?

I’d take USA for your standard:

**Laws against **bestiality and sodomy in the **United States are largely a matter of **state rather than federal jurisdiction, except for **laws governing the District of Columbia and the U.S. Armed Forces. There is no federal **law which explicitly prohibits sex between humans and animals.

---

Google again

A man in love with his cat/dog is as abnormal and retarded as a man who’s in love with another man’s rectum.

Animals can’t give you consent in writing lol. They will actively participate in the act to give their consent. Or if a human being tries to force an animal, the beast might bite the reproductive part off him lol.

An animal cannot consent no matter how much fanfiction you try to write because it will not fully comprehend what is going on
I don’t need to Google **** because bestiality is still a paraphilia no matter what the law says
Homosexuality is not a man being “attracted to the rectum” no matter how much fanfiction you try to write
Yes, us deviant Westerns do not have to worry about marriage because f*cking your cousins (opposite sex) is seen as abnormal. Yes that makes so much logical sense. Also, birth control and even sex dolls are better than a society that wants you to not use birth control and pop out too many kids without any means of providing for them.

[IsaidwhatIsaid]

Re: The west

@Damras

**Birth defects are not related to cousin marriage
**
Please read what biological science has to say:

Question: Why do birth defects happen in the Western countries where cousin marriage is deemed as incest?

Because f*cking family members is not the only way for your child to come out with birth defects.

[Pakistani_Prince]

Re: The west

@IsaidwhatIsaid

I took a dictionary definition because I am not dedicated enough to this “”“debate”“” to do anything further than that. Sure, cousin-cousin marriages have a lower chance of producing medical abnormalities, but that doesn’t change the fact that it is incest. You were trying to claim that cousin-cousin marriages aren’t considered incestuous because “the definition doesn’t support it.” I don’t care for your definition of anything if it is not grounded in anything.

I am not trying to claim anything, idiot.. I am stating the facts. You have not given any concrete proof or evidence yet and hence the defination still does not support your claim. The last thing you could do was googling and that’s what you did.
Anyhow let me make it clear for you once for all, Only the direct blood relatives come under the category of incest. Go figure it out.

[Damras]

Re: The west

@IsaidwhatIsaid

Yes, us deviant Westerns do not have to worry about marriage because f*cking your cousins (opposite sex) is seen as abnormal.

This is because to us in the east, west is abnormal retard. We are different people with different lifestyle and different definition of ‘incest’

[Damras]

Re: The west

@IsaidwhatIsaid

Because f*cking family members is not the only way for your child to come out with birth defects.

You have to prove ‘scientifically’ that cousin marriage increases the risk of birth defects:

Open your eyes, and close your mouth

Few Risks Seen To the Children Of 1st Cousins

By DENISE GRADY

APRIL 4, 2002

Contrary to widely held beliefs and longstanding taboos in America, first cousins can have children together without a great risk of birth defects or genetic disease, scientists are reporting today. They say there is no biological reason to discourage cousins from marrying.

Few Risks Seen To the Children Of 1st Cousins - The New York Times