there is a difference between the crimes/sins you commit that against someone else and ones that you commit against yourself…
as for evil in laws… those is in my experience generally dont exist…evil implies they are out to get you…and there is rarely a situation where that is actually the case… its normally personal perception that makes ppl think they’re in laws are “evil” that is not to say “evil” in laws dont exist like the ones who burn their DILs alive im just syaing ur average in laws dont fall in that category and should not be judged we are all human beings who have sensitivities if you don somehting that irks ur MILs sensitivity she will most probably say somehting about it…just like ur own mother would…however since she is not really your mother and you dont necessarily think of her that way…unki baat zyaada pinch karti hai…
so u putting “evil in laws” in this category doesnt even make sense to me but meh whatever!
And that is *exactly **what I was saying too. "Accept that it is haram and feel bad *in your heart that these things are happening in the muslim community" ... Is that not secretive/humble enough?
sure
but one thing that should also be kept in mind in doing that is there is a fine line between feeling in ur heart that these thigns shud not be happening and becoming proud about the fact that ur not the one doing them... im not saying thats what ur doing im just saying thats something that one shud always keep in mind
but one thing that should also be kept in mind in doing that is there is a fine line between feeling in ur heart that these thigns shud not be happening and becoming proud about the fact that ur not the one doing them... im not saying thats what ur doing im just saying thats something that one shud always keep in mind
Arrogance is also haram.
Reha, MIL's mean words (not acts) may have hurt her DIL but what she did wasn't illegal (in fact she's allowed to say whatever she did - freedom of speech - the likes of Geert Wilders, no matter how hurtful/insulting, are acquitted by the court of law) and that is still their gharelo mamla and none of our business. So, in my view, there's double standards in defending one person for not doing something illegal and openly ridiculing the other. See, its all about perspective. So, after a healthy discussion, we can conclude: "To you, your deeds. To us, our deeds."
Reha, MIL's mean words (not acts) may have hurt her DIL but what she did wasn't illegal (in fact she's allowed to say whatever she did - freedom of speech - the likes of Geert Wilders, no matter how hurtful/insulting, are acquitted by the court of law) and that is still their gharelo mamla and none of our business. So, in my view, there's double standards in defending one person for not doing something illegal and openly ridiculing the other. See, its all about perspective. So, after a healthy discussion, we can conclude: "To you, your deeds. To us, our deeds."
If someone is hurt at the hands of another - be it MIL or DIL or anyone else for that matter - I understand the world condemning their actions and shaking their heads in disbelief.
However, if someone commits zina or a sin where the only one they hurt was themselves...its not anyone's place to start demonizing them.
If you believe in a higher power, you also believe in His sense of justice. The "USED" girls that NomiCA was referring to - does anyone think they wont get what they deserve? Whether its forgiveness or punishment is another topic. But do you guys really think Allah swt does not know what they have done or are doing? Is there a doubt concerning His reach or knowledge? Does anyone here think they are being His eyes and ears on Planet Earth?
People DO suffer and pay for what they do but its not because we wag our tongues at them. It actually has nothing to do with us at all. The less we consider ourselves above these lowly creatures, the better off we will be. Yeah, THEY messed up. Its between them and their God. We do not matter.
Point long understood, Reha, I could say more because I do not believe in simply shutting yourself off from whatever is happening around you and acting blind, deaf and mute but then I don't believe in slandering and backbiting either. There's a fine line and we all have to be very careful. The best we can do, as I said in my initial post, is KNOW that it is wrong and FEEL bad that it is happening but DON'T go around publicising it unless it is affecting you in some way. This is the basic requirement of a free, tolerant, sane society. I now want some cookies for contributing to the post count of your phorum :@:
Mostly people use others for sex or money.
In case of girls, guys mostly use em for sex.
However girls mostly uses guy for money.
If u find a girl who uses guy for sex only, please post some detail about here. Guys here wud appreciate it. :)
Where are you getting your statistics from? ...and do you mean to say that guys never ask women for money?
If someone is hurt at the hands of another - be it MIL or DIL or anyone else for that matter - I understand the world condemning their actions and shaking their heads in disbelief.
However, if someone commits zina or a sin where the only one they hurt was themselves...its not anyone's place to start demonizing them.
If you believe in a higher power, you also believe in His sense of justice. The "USED" girls that NomiCA was referring to - does anyone think they wont get what they deserve? Whether its forgiveness or punishment is another topic. But do you guys really think Allah swt does not know what they have done or are doing? Is there a doubt concerning His reach or knowledge? Does anyone here think they are being His eyes and ears on Planet Earth?
People DO suffer and pay for what they do but its not because we wag our tongues at them. It actually has nothing to do with us at all. The less we consider ourselves above these lowly creatures, the better off we will be. Yeah, THEY messed up. Its between them and their God. We do not matter.
Yes, true. In an ideal world that's what we would all want. No demonising. No ex-boyfriend/psycho threads on GS. :)
Reha you eloquently wrote exactly what my heart felt about this subject :k:
^ I don’t know whether you’re being sarcastic rizla, but just because the world isn’t as ideal as we would hope it to be, doesn’t mean we shouldn’t stick to our morals individually. If I make an active effort of putting this concept of not being judgemental into practice in my life, and teach it to the best of my ability to my family and future children then inshallah Allah will reward for that and there will be blessings in it. It’s like what I heard a Sheikh say the other day: Something which is right will remain right till the last Day even if the whole world thinks it’s wrong.
Even if the guy and the girl were really really serious about each other, even if they were oh so madly in love, even if they were engaged, even if they did end up getting married, their marriage would NOT be valid if they had committed zina **unless they both seriously repented it and asked for Allah swt's forgiveness and promised to never repeat such acts, **all of this is clearly spelled out in the Quran. .
As I was reading through your posts BarbieCue, this particularly struck me as being odd. I've never heard of sexual relationships before marriage being something that invalidates your marriage, whether you're marrying the person you had the relations with or another person. I have always been taught them as being two different matters. Committing zina is a sin no doubt, but it's between you and Allah, and of course you should ask for forgiveness but it might not be til years and years later that you feel the guilt and submit in repentance to your Lord about it. But the act itself does not prevent you from getting married, whether you asked for forgiveness yet or not! Please back up your points if it is clearly spelled out in the Quran...
There’s a famous hadith where a dishevelled couple turn up and have obviously just had sex (but there are no witnesses) and are then married on the spot to turn their ‘relationship’ (more like sudden sex/one-night stand) into something halal.. Wish I could remember the exact details so I could post the link
I remember it as I hear from so many elders that when their kids are dating they should be broken up and told to marry someone else…
Now because we muslims have a habit of x-raying every verse, there are disputes over this one too. The above is the Hanbali view, then there’s the Al-Suyuti view, the Al-Shaukani, the Ibn Khateer and the sunni and shia views. Some say the fornicatress has to wait for one menstrual period, some say 3 menstrual periods before getting married. Some say repentance is obligatory before marriage, others say it isn’t. Some say it is not allowed for muslim men/women to marry unchaste men/women so that automatically forbids them to marry zaani or zaaniyah. Some say something haram (zina) cannot invalidate something halal (marriage) but these views are based on reports that aren’t even agreed upon by all scholars. Yes, they love to confuse us!! So which one do you go with??
I’m of the view that if, for example, someone tells me I’m going to die if I drink this glass of water and others say no you will only faint, or no you will only feel nauseous or no you will be perfectly fine, I’d rather NOT drink the water at all. Most scholars say all hair extensions, wigs etc are haram and others say only the real human hair ones are. Now do I risk being “cursed by Allah” and wear synthetic hair extensions or do I refrain from altogether? I choose the latter. In the same way, if there’s any doubt that my marriage is going to be invalid if I commit zina with the one I love, I’d rather control my hormones until after we get married. Its as simple as that for me and you may choose to believe in whatever view you most agree with.
Thanks for the reply. I must admit it's the first I've ever heard of it. I read through both links that you posted and if that is the opinion that you follow then so be it. However my heart still doesn't accept it as I see a major flaw in the argument: that no one except you and Allah will truly know whether you have repented and so how is that something that is fundamentally difficult to prove can invalidate a person's marriage.
So personally I completely respect the opinion that you and these scholars hold but I will follow the viewpoint of other scholars that it does not invalidate a marriage.
One of the most beautiful things about Islam is that two different viewpoints, both supported by the Quran and Sunnah, although opposing in nature are both considered correct and valid. And Allah knows best.
I don’t wholeheartedly support the Hanbali view which is why I wrote an explaination above. But then I don’t wholeheartedly support other interpretations either unless someone can give me a very good reason to do so. If there’s doubt about something, and if that doubt cannot be refuted completely, I just avoid it altogether.
As for repentance, ofcourse that is just an inward act between you and your God and we’re actually told to conceal it if we commit zina and not spread the word. So Allah-u-aalam. The main thing is that there’s no dispute over the unlawfulness of zina and so if we stay away from it in the first place, we won’t have to worry about the validity of marriage issues afterwards.
when there is so much debate over a particular verse I personally dont grab one view and stick to it… it just means that it was left ambiguous and probably for a reason… but like princess said allah knows best
