Re: The "USED" girls
because they trust the guy.
hold on hold on hold on
Do you mean that trust is all that is required, no other barrier, no religion, no morality, no culture, no ethics.....
so trust is the the god that dictates when to be intimate with opposite sex, specially for girls.................o my
How do you trust the feeling of trust?
Re: The "USED" girls
So what is it about (getting physical before actual marriage)....if not lust and 'blah blah blah'...............??
A lot of times (not all of the time) its about love and feelings and trust that builds between two people. It could be the guy trusting the girl or the girl trusting the guy.
Regardless, if people were to be so black and white about things like this then why not in every other aspect of life?
Its always people who have never done a particular thing that raise their fingers at others. But when you do that, there are three more pointing right back at you. You're also guilty of sins - albeit different ones. And its not for you to say whether you will be forgiven or not.
You might look at a girl and say "oh wow, what a slut. she did xyz before marriage. hayye hayye". She might look back at you and say "tauba tauba, mard hokay larkiyon ki tarha lagai bujhai karta hai".
You may be thinking what someone else did is unforgivable or inexcusable. But I bet you anything you all have done something in your life other people might find unforgivable and inexcusable.
Leave the judging to the only one that has the right to do it.
Re: The "USED" girls
No one is judging anyone here. We're just saying when a girl gets 'used' it's as much her fault as it is the guy's.
No matter how much 'love' or 'trust' there is, the basic underlying factor is always lust.
Re: The "USED" girls
No one is judging anyone here. .
Yeaaah this is GS, a judgement free zone. insert angel smilie here
Re: The "USED" girls
i have heard of used objects ,nevber of used girls.
so what abt the used guys.are they forever new?
Re: The "USED" girls
In life people get used by other people. Even the word "rape" doesn't always get restricted to sexual misuse. So taking the topic to that level one gets "conned" only when one's greed is invoked. You can make a buddhu out of a person only if they get inticed by all that you are promising (even if its not true). If the victim doesn't get greedy there's no way the con artist can take you for a ride (pun intended).
Now let's discuss this line of discussion
Re: The "USED" girls
A lot of times (not all of the time) its about love and feelings and trust that builds between two people. It could be the guy trusting the girl or the girl trusting the guy.
Even if the guy and the girl were really really serious about each other, even if they were oh so madly in love, even if they were engaged, even if they did end up getting married, their marriage would NOT be valid if they had committed zina unless they both seriously repented it and asked for Allah swt's forgiveness and promised to never repeat such acts, all of this is clearly spelled out in the Quran. So this whole trust love thing sounds very bollywood to me, we need to get back to reality. The reality being, those who're willing to risk badnami in the society + invalid marriage + Allah's narazgi + double the torment on the day of judgement for a few minutes of haram pleasure in the name of love are pretty darn stupid. If that sounds like judging, so be it.
Regardless, if people were to be so black and white about things like this then why not in every other aspect of life?
Its always people who have never done a particular thing that raise their fingers at others. But when you do that, there are three more pointing right back at you. You're also guilty of sins - albeit different ones. And its not for you to say whether you will be forgiven or not.
You might look at a girl and say "oh wow, what a slut. she did xyz before marriage. hayye hayye". She might look back at you and say "tauba tauba, mard hokay larkiyon ki tarha lagai bujhai karta hai".
You may be thinking what someone else did is unforgivable or inexcusable. But I bet you anything you all have done something in your life other people might find unforgivable and inexcusable.
Leave the judging to the only one that has the right to do it.
Absolutely, neither of us are angels, it is only human nature to sin and make mistakes. But what you're saying makes me think of the three monkeys - see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil. The only one that you really have control over is speaking evil. But what do you do when you witness someone doing something wrong? You just saw/heard evil, now what? This is what muslims are asked to do:
"Whoever among you sees an evil action, let him change it with his hand (take action); if he cannot, then with his tongue (denounce it); and if he cannot, then with his heart (by feeling bad about it) but that is the weakest of faith."
Let us put this into perspective. Prophet Mohammad saw not only denounced idolatry, he also went into the kaaba and broke their 300+ idols. He put an end to female infanticide, slave abuse, adultery, zina etc etc. He took action.
The times have changed now. First off, we're corrupt people. Nowhere near as pious as Prophet saw and his followers were back then so, as you say, we don't really have the right to point fingers at others since we've all done things that we aren't proud of and we should fix ourselves first. So we're not going to stone to death people who commit zina. Premarital sex is happening all around us, we're not going to start a protest and denounce it because modern society allows people to make their own choices. But what we can do is accept that it is haram and feel bad that it is happening quite commonly among the muslim community. So what you see in this thread are people's feelings and thoughts on this matter, not a bunch of judgements. What's being said is the truth, spelled out very clearly in the Quran so there's no room for judging or doubting.
What I'm trying to say is, calling people who're denouncing zina (a serious crime in Islam) as being judgemental makes as much sense as accusing people who denounce murder (a serious crime in the court of law ..and Islam) as judging the murderers.
Re: The "USED" girls
hold on hold on hold on
Do you mean that trust is all that is required, no other barrier, no religion, no morality, no culture, no ethics.....
so trust is the the god that dictates when to be intimate with opposite sex, specially for girls.................o my
How do you trust the feeling of trust?
Great post.
Even if the guy and the girl were really really serious about each other, even if they were oh so madly in love, even if they were engaged, even if they did end up getting married, their marriage would NOT be valid if they had committed zina unless they both seriously repented it and asked for Allah swt's forgiveness and promised to never repeat such acts, all of this is clearly spelled out in the Quran. So this whole trust love thing sounds very bollywood to me, we need to get back to reality. The reality being, those who're willing to risk badnami in the society + invalid marriage + Allah's narazgi + double the torment on the day of judgement for a few minutes of haram pleasure in the name of love are pretty darn stupid. *If that sounds like judging, so be it. *
Absolutely, neither of us are angels, it is only human nature to sin and make mistakes. But what you're saying makes me think of the three monkeys - see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil. The only one that you really have control over is speaking evil. But what do you do when you witness someone doing something wrong? You just saw/heard evil, now what? This is what muslims are asked to do:
"Whoever among you sees an evil action, let him change it with his hand (take action); if he cannot, then with his tongue (denounce it); and if he cannot, then with his heart (by feeling bad about it) but that is the weakest of faith."
Let us put this into perspective. Prophet Mohammad saw not only denounced idolatry, he also went into the kaaba and broke their 300+ idols. He put an end to female infanticide, slave abuse, adultery, zina etc etc. He took action.
The times have changed now. First off, we're corrupt people. Nowhere near as pious as Prophet saw and his followers were back then so, as you say, we don't really have the right to point fingers at others since we've all done things that we aren't proud of and we should fix ourselves first. So we're not going to stone to death people who commit zina. Premarital sex is happening all around us, we're not going to start a protest and denounce it because modern society allows people to make their own choices. But what we can do is accept that it is haram and feel bad that it is happening quite commonly among the muslim community. So what you see in this thread are people's feelings and thoughts on this matter, not a bunch of judgements. What's being said is the truth, spelled out very clearly in the Quran so there's no room for judging or doubting.
What I'm trying to say is, calling people who're denouncing zina (a serious crime in Islam) as being judgemental makes as much sense as accusing people who denounce murder (a serious crime in the court of law ..and Islam) as judging the murderers.
Another great one.
'
Sins are committed by all of us at some level. No argument there.
BUT
1-Calling someone judging someone else, is one way to to stop people calling spade as spade.
This is one tactics used by those who do not want anyone to say the truth.
2-One can be accused of judging someone or being hypocrite, but one should not stop saying the truth.
3- Yes, loved the bold part.
Re: The "USED" girls
It IS a sin. But its a sin that is punishable by Allah swt...no one else. It really is as simple as that.
I dont believe in this thing where as long as YOU or I havent done it, its the worst sin in the world. But HAD any of you or I been there...we'd be talking a different tune.
You dont know anyone's circumstances, why it happened or what the situation was. For all any of you know, the person could have repented and made amends to THEIR ALLAH swt. Where do people like you and I come into the picture trying to put them on a trial and call them sinners when we're just as guilty of our own little idiocies?
You know what this reminds me of? This one lady who used to preach to me when I got divorced about it being the most unlikable thing that Allah swt has made legal for us. You don't think people know its wrong? Yeah, they do. They don't need any reminders from the self-righteous.
Btw, just a year later - she was right there asking me for an attorney referral. Which I politely gave without reminding her of her words to me.
Re: The "USED" girls
I don't really agree with you
In my opinion, and granted I am no expert but the hadith that you're quoting is more related to if there is some kind of atrocity against someone or against islam that is going on...
you might want to consider the following hadith with respect to the sins of fellow muslims:
"One who helped someone in a trouble in this world, Allah will help him in his trouble in the Hereafter and** one who keeps the faults of a Muslim secret in this world, Allah will keep his faults in the Hereafter** and Allah remains in the help of the (Muslim) man until he is in the help of his brother." (Musnad Ahmad: 274/2)
we as muslims should keep the faults/sins of others a secret and not call them out....(a) you never know who has repented and (b) we as muslims are required to be humble there is no humility involved in calling out the sin of a sinner... unless you yourself are free of sin.
and im going to leave it at that... we all have our own opinions and this is mine ....we are in no place to judge others that is only allahs role not ours....we were not put on this earth to judge others, we may judge ourselves and make sure we dont commit sins but i just do not think we have any right nor are we in any position to judge the acts of others.
Even if the guy and the girl were really really serious about each other, even if they were oh so madly in love, even if they were engaged, even if they did end up getting married, their marriage would NOT be valid if they had committed zina unless they both seriously repented it and asked for Allah swt's forgiveness and promised to never repeat such acts, all of this is clearly spelled out in the Quran. So this whole trust love thing sounds very bollywood to me, we need to get back to reality. The reality being, those who're willing to risk badnami in the society + invalid marriage + Allah's narazgi + double the torment on the day of judgement for a few minutes of haram pleasure in the name of love are pretty darn stupid. If that sounds like judging, so be it.
Absolutely, neither of us are angels, it is only human nature to sin and make mistakes. But what you're saying makes me think of the three monkeys - see no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil. The only one that you really have control over is speaking evil. But what do you do when you witness someone doing something wrong? You just saw/heard evil, now what? This is what muslims are asked to do:
"Whoever among you sees an evil action, let him change it with his hand (take action); if he cannot, then with his tongue (denounce it); and if he cannot, then with his heart (by feeling bad about it) but that is the weakest of faith."
Let us put this into perspective. Prophet Mohammad saw not only denounced idolatry, he also went into the kaaba and broke their 300+ idols. He put an end to female infanticide, slave abuse, adultery, zina etc etc. He took action.
The times have changed now. First off, we're corrupt people. Nowhere near as pious as Prophet saw and his followers were back then so, as you say, we don't really have the right to point fingers at others since we've all done things that we aren't proud of and we should fix ourselves first. So we're not going to stone to death people who commit zina. Premarital sex is happening all around us, we're not going to start a protest and denounce it because modern society allows people to make their own choices. But what we can do is accept that it is haram and feel bad that it is happening quite commonly among the muslim community. So what you see in this thread are people's feelings and thoughts on this matter, not a bunch of judgements. What's being said is the truth, spelled out very clearly in the Quran so there's no room for judging or doubting.
What I'm trying to say is, calling people who're denouncing zina (a serious crime in Islam) as being judgemental makes as much sense as accusing people who denounce murder (a serious crime in the court of law ..and Islam) as judging the murderers.
Re: The “USED” girls
Does this same analogy of ‘not judging’ apply to rapists, wife abusers, womanizing men, or Evil inlaws too???
Are you ready to ‘not judge’ them also??
its funny how ‘not judging’ is reserved for some instances and not all 
Re: The "USED" girls
A lot of us can say to not judge. I'm always telling my friends to not judge other people or other Muslims. But the truth is that we can't help it. It's because we judge that we're able to tell what is right and wrong. It is through judgement that we remind ourselves of what not to become. Perception, judgement, etc.- these things are difficult to get rid of. If you see a girl with an abaya/hijab but then you hear that she goes clubbing, drinking, sleeping around, etc.- it's kind of difficult to not judge that girl. Does it mean that someone has the right to put that person down or become self-righteous? Definitely not. Should you avoid them like the plague? No. You can always guide or advise someone in a proper manner. In the end, it's that person's life. If they choose not to listen to you, then simply shrug your shoulders because ultimately God is judging them. If they change, then perhaps you'll get rewarded.
Going back to the topic... there's a reason why they say the devil is present when a guy and girl are alone. The devil isn't only present with the girl. Both are at fault.
Re: The "USED" girls
There's actually a **distinction in Islam made between personal sins like zina and others such as abuse, riba etc. **The former is between the person themselves and Allah (hence we're told to keep it to ourselves). Some people need to read up on it.
Re: The "USED" girls
"One who helped someone in a trouble in this world, Allah will help him in his trouble in the Hereafter and** one who keeps the faults of a Muslim secret in this world, Allah will keep his faults in the Hereafter** and Allah remains in the help of the (Muslim) man until he is in the help of his brother." (Musnad Ahmad: 274/2)
we as muslims should keep the faults/sins of others a secret and not call them out....(a) you never know who has repented and (b) we as muslims are required to be humble there is no humility involved in calling out the sin of a sinner... unless you yourself are free of sin.
And that is *exactly **what I was saying too. "Accept that it is haram and feel bad *in your heart that these things are happening in the muslim community" ... Is that not secretive/humble enough?
Re: The “USED” girls
Sorry to be so blunt but what dumb comparison.
zina - which applies to ONLY the person who does it does NOT in any way compare to abuse, murder, rape or anything else where you are harming another individual.
The way you have worded the title is pretty judgmental so I dont expect you to understand this at all.
I dont judge people as harshly as I used to anymore. Why? Because Allah swt is there to do justice and He will when He needs to. You or I are nobody to interfere in His work or “help” Him along. He doesnt need you to beat your drums and point out all the sinners to Him, okay? Why? Because you’re a sinner too.
How does it look? One sinner pointing out another one? Really?
He knows where all the “USED” girls are Nomi. He’ll find 'em all.
What I have learned is its fun to point fingers at others and call them out on their bad deeds. It makes one feel like they’ve got a glow-in-the-dark halo on their head. But sometimes that audacity might tempt fate to cure you of it. Before you know it, the same people that were next to you are now pointing at you - calling YOU a sinner.
Its a personal relationship with God - you have no business meddling in it. Realize is a sin and keep your paws out of it. Thats enough.
Re: The “USED” girls
:k:
Re: The “USED” girls
So Reha what about this thread where the MIL is under the radar not for murder, not for zina, not for any horrendous crime, but for writing an email? http://www.paklinks.com/gs/life-and-relationships/508068-bourne-ultimatum-mum-in-laws-manners-guide-2.html
We’re not only pointing fingers at her, we’re also ridiculing her. Or here http://www.paklinks.com/gs/life-and-relationships/507599-anyone-notice-this-about-pakistani-women.html where we’re judging Pakistani women? Or all those threads where we quite openly judge FOBs?
Anyway, MashaAllah alot of us could learn from your way of reasoning, Reha and llxxll :k: I have nothing but respect for your compassionate nature and I pray to Allah taala that He guides us all to wish for our fellow muslims what we wish for ourselves. I remember a hadith where a person asked Prophet Mohammad saw what if whatever is being said about the fellow muslim is true? Prophet saw replied “If its true, its backbiting, if its false, its slander” … we need to refrain from both. But as can be seen by all other threads in life1 or on GS, it isn’t all that simple for us to do so unfortunately.
Re: The “USED” girls
Dude it’s not the same thing. not at all.
rape/abuse/murder - someone suffers at the hands of someone else
consensual sex between two adults-no one suffers, and if someone suffers…it’s their own mistake…they’re not suffering at someone else’s hands
Re: The “USED” girls
You’re right. You’re absolutely right that people are judging the MIL and poking fun at her. I think one of the reasons is because people believe she again - is saying and doing things to hurt her DIL or another individual. Whoever was the aggressor, it seems even wrong to us because another person had to suffer the consequences of someone’s deliberately mean acts.
I have an issue with people who pass judgement on others because of personal sins they have committed. Now that they have done this, they are no longer paak-saaf Muslims like the rest of our community claims to be. Its not right. Its simply not right. None of us know where Allah swt’s mercy goes and whether someone is working hard to correct themselves. I know one girl personally who had such a shady past you would just wonder where her parents really were. Some might think she is going straight to Hell. Some might look at her life now and wonder if they have a different person.
Experience is the best teacher. Everyone learns their lesson at their own time.
Re: The “USED” girls
agreed. :k: