Re: The Truth About Why Men Cheat
muzna, I am working on a bleeding-stone invention. What with us desis being hesitant to part with our hard-earnt khoon. I am going to donate it all to alien hospitals. Helping me will be a more productive way to spend your time. ;=)
Re: The Truth About Why Men Cheat
ROFLMAO at hitchki and redvelvet........
bbl the rug-rat-no-more needs to be fed.
read below
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muzna http://www.paklinks.com/gs/images/buttons/viewpost.gif
Let me just say this for now…if men would lower their gazes it wouldn’t matter how women dressed. (Saying this does not in anyway suggest or condone immodest attire on the part of women.)
…
I think what that statement said is what you should have meant. I already elaborated accordingly in my last post.
Regarding the bold part, you are cointradicting yourself because from the preceding statement, by enforcing men to lower thier gazes, you are unconsciously supporting the idea of women being able to dress freely, as the need for them to dress modestly (cover thier beauty for saving men being attracted) does not exist.
And I cannot see anywhere I have erred my recent posts.
I have tried to remain as fair as possible to both sexes and only repeat Allahs preordained cause and solution to the cheating problem.
But It is YOU Muzna, who is being unfair and relucting to accept the simultaneous due responsibility on the womens part.
Since I am not telepathic and am unfortunatly limited to percive by only what is stated, I would apprciate if you made your intent more clearer somehow.
and Hitcky - r u still upset about the worlds exccesive population-what did you get round to doing about that?
Re: The Truth About Why Men Cheat
What the fk!? pindi is not the same. I see excessive ‘F7’ done on your text prior to posting. Not to mention the aggressive attempt at sounding mature and sensible!
Not fun man, not fun! 
Re: The Truth About Why Men Cheat
It neither funny when somebody has to employ various lifestyle multis in order to express thier perverted selves.
Hows CM and Ye_Boii doing mate? 
I think what that statement said is what you should have meant. I already elaborated accordingly in my last post.
Regarding the bold part, you are cointradicting yourself because from the preceding statement, by enforcing men to lower thier gazes, you are unconsciously supporting the idea of women being able to dress freely, as the need for them to dress modestly (cover thier beauty for saving men being attracted) does not exist.
And I cannot see anywhere I have erred my recent posts.
Let me help you here....I think this is a communication issue because I can't imagine that anyone would want to argue just for argument's sake.
If I did not mean what I said, I would not have said it.
So what the statement said is what I meant.
Men should lower their gazes no matter how the women are dressed.
Women should dress modestly no matter what the men are doing.
If men look at women in an inappropriate way this does not give the women the right to break the rules by wearing immodest attire.
If women dress in an inappropriate way this does not give the men the right to break the rules and look at them in an inappropriate way.
Is my foolish opinion clear now?
Is that all you meant? What was it about the fodder then, that could give birth to multiple threads.
Anyhow,
Both sexes should keep to thier rules.
But in todays time the reality is, that most men do not lower thier gazes, and you cannot rely on that.
simultaneously if no women covers herself, even the pious men will gain exposure at times who are also vulnerable.
But maybe the ladies could benefit from increasing thier knowledge, as at the end of the day it is the women who are most affected by cheating phenomenon.
And I tell you upfront truth. I know this hurts but it is not 'mens' entire fault why they go round two-timing.
If women also maintained strict obedience to Allahs rules and orders and showed less of thier attractive selves then wouldnt thier be less problems?
All of the above shown comments are fodder for many individual threads Amir saheb.
To suggest that women are "most affected" by cheating is rubbish. This would suggest that men are not and I would assure you that men are affected.....more so than women are.....both in short term and long term.
To suggest that "it is not mens' entire fault why they go round two-timing" is also rubbish. No matter what happens in the world, a man/woman is responsible for their own actions. To lay blame on some outside person/force for one's own sins is ridiculous.
Even if women did not practice strict obedience to Allah's rules, it would not give men the right to disobey them.
There is so much more that could be said but you seem to get lost when I write so I will let you work with this for now.....
Re: The Truth About Why Men Cheat
All of the above shown comments are fodder for many individual threads Amir saheb.
To suggest that women are "most affected" by cheating is rubbish. This would suggest that men are not and I would assure you that men are affected.....more so than women are.....both in short term and long term.
I was referring to the case of man cheating on women, (as the thread implies), and I still do belive in this case women are more affected since men are the stronger sex and who also have less social expecations and pressures than women. Also hope you agree from real-life stats, how in Pakistani-muslim societies it is much easier for a man to divorce his cheating partner and marry a new one, than for a women.
To suggest that "it is not mens' entire fault why they go round two-timing" is also rubbish. No matter what happens in the world, a man/woman is responsible for their own actions. To lay blame on some outside person/force for one's own sins is ridiculous.
Even if women did not practice strict obedience to Allah's rules, it would not give men the right to disobey them.
Although men and women are both required to control and tame thier 'nafs', I hope you understand even though in the koran Allah emphasises in many places the strong potential, physical and spiritual nature of man, his strong will and persevring power, which correspondigly was proven by the ideal 'men' of that time who strived in Allahs path, waged war and jihad in Allahs cause, sacrificed thier limbs, thier family, thier property, thier lives, overthrowing the era's unbreakable 400 year long roman and byzantines empires stand, spreading Islam from easts to West, in a matter of a mere Decade.- Such pious and strong men.
But look how for even these such strong natured, ever capable men, Allah has wrote in the koran not in one but many place how he has created them 'Weak in respect to women'.
By **weak **Allah means, having a very high and vulnerbale tendency towards women. This is mans Mans nature Muzna. women are not the same as men. Everybody would love to control, easier said than done.
If you just have a quick look at the hadiths I posted in my above posts you will get a glimpse of how uncontrollble these urges were even for these most best and strongest of men- and get what exactly I mean.
Likewise, to help men stop falling prey to the high urges he purposly created in them, he ordered for them lower thier gazes, and the women to cover up. i.e a team thing.
For example, Muzna, say if you had a shop, a normal corner shop. A lot and all types of people come to your shop. People come to that shop because they like the things there. Now you are always present at the till keeping a watch at the shop and the customers. Now in the state you live in it is a crimiminal offense to steal. Lets say because of this apparent law, you get lax and decide to abandon the shop. On returning you see some goods are missing. i,e your shop was looted. Now Ofcourse the blame lies with the customer who did the crime.
But honestly tell me would you not also be at some blame for leaving your property vulnerabale and unattended like that infront of people. I think you would.
Similarly your self-your beauty as a girl is your property which you must take all steps to guard, from people that you know have a likeing/need for it.
If a girl goes round dressing in a provokative way and somone duely gets provoked and tries on her, she is also to blame.
I did not mean to discredit women or take mens side by saying 'its not entirely mens fault'. I meant it in the way to say women should also try from thier side not to show/give those features that men could be attracted by.
You need to understand the nature of men to understand where im coming from. For example, I have seen 'SCHOLARS' , and yes **elderly **scholars on Islamic Channels, giving speeches where they were educating people by giving examples of themselves how even they felt attracted by western women and their exhibitionist 'bikinis/thongs get-ups' on seaside venues and TV, and how the ladies need to cover up.
One last example- all you girls know how bad it is too gossip, but do you stop> no, even the most pious of u cant and never will - cos its a strong innate nature of yours to speak about things.. Similarly,Most Men know that its dissallowed for them to look at women, but they still do it because they they have a strong urge for it, and dont see any apparent harm in it.
I know we shouldnt, and many of us dont, but it would honestly make the whole thing a lot easier if ladies also cooperated as willed by Allah.
Ok im not going to speak more on this. This is enough, hope you get it.
There is so much more that could be said but you seem to get lost when I write so I will let you work with this for now.....
I made a large effort above in clarifying myself.
Re: The Truth About Why Men Cheat
By the way....Gaia...i dont think i have cracked up so much in my time in gupshup as I your last post made me.
cnt quote the phrase...lolzzz...excellent post though...spot on.
I made a large effort above in clarifying myself.
"If a girl goes round dressing in a provokative way and somone duely gets provoked and tries on her, she is also to blame."
It is the responsibility of a woman to dress modestly for her own self-respect and safety. And if she's not dressed modestly........she's not fulfilling her responsibility. BUT she can't be "blamed" for being assaulted. There's a difference between personal responsibility and exceeding your limits to harm another person.
There are cases of women (desi women) who were modestly dressed (not wearing provocative clothing) and were molested/raped by men. So are these women still to blame for being irresistibly beautiful even when they are fully clothed? There are countless stories of innocent little girls (whose bodies have not even fully developed into womanly forms) and they have been molested by men in their families. Are these little girls to blame for the womanly beauty/form that they don't even have yet?
Sure, I understand the concept of a "team-effort" of the men lowering the gaze and the women observing modesty in their attire.
But what is the worst evil here? Is it a bigger gunnah to dress provocatively.........or is it a bigger gunnah to rape someone? We were never told that this life will not be full of temptations. But you can't blame the temptations for committing a sin. Allah held Adam and Eve accountable for committing the sin of eating what was forbidden. Although shaitan tempted them with thoughts/words.......the sin was committed by them.
Let's say someone says something really really really mean to you. And you punch him in the face. Who crossed the line? Who committed the bigger gunnah? The other person might have provoked you with their words........BUT YOU.......ALWAYS had the choice to either walk away or only fight back with words. YOU had the choice to not fight with your hands..............but you made the decision to use physical violence anyways. And once you put your hands on someone...........even if it is a provocatively dressed female............YOU are to blame. You would be the one who committed a crime not the girl. If you have a problem with alcohol addiction and you hang around a bar........that is YOUR fault. Because you always have the option to walk away. If you touch a tempting bottle of alcohol sitting in front of you.......it's still YOUR fault because you have the option of leaving. You can't blame the bottle for capturing your attention when you could have taken measures to distract yourself. Regardless of how a woman is dressed, the** GREATER RESPONSIBILITY rests upon U to stay within your limits and not assault that woman or commit an extra-marital affair. ** And as I said earlier, there are men who don't even control themselves around women who are decently dressed.
No matter what a person says to you.....no matter how they are dressed..............does not give you the right to justify losing control of yourself and touching that person.
Women do want to be found attractive by men just like men want to be found attractive by women. Some women go about getting male attention in the wrong way. But NO woman wants to be raped and no wife wants to be cheated on regardless of how "tempted" a guy might be by women. **ACTIONS **SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS AND VISUALS! And there is no excuse strong enough to justify the actions of assault or cheating on your spouse.
Men and women can BOTH gossip. I know women who are good at controlling their tongues and make the effort not to gossip and try not to encourage others either. So.........there **ARE **women who can control their tongues. There **IS **a harm in gossiping. It is wrong for you to assume that women don't see the harm in gossiping. Many women are aware of the Islamic consequences for gossiping and they know that it is a gunnah.........and some women use this point to try and control themselves.
Similarly men can try and make the effort to control themselves as well. It's foolish for BOTH GENDERS to say that "this is in my nature. I see no harm in it. So I shall continue it."
A lot of points you made RV.
Yes, i always agreed men should control themselves. But I said that most men will not, because there is less incentive for them to.
So I only wrote that long piece to illustrate to Muzna, why the female covering aspect is also important.
I never placed more blame on women compared to men regarding cheating instances.
Ofcourse the male culprit is most blameworthy, but I think some/minority of the fault does also lie on the ways that some modern ladies present and openly interact with males.
Men would be less attracted basically if women dressed more modestly.
The case of the lady in hijab that got raped is a minority.
Men should also lower thier gazes.`
Re: The Truth About Why Men Cheat
what has men (or women) for that matter got ANYTHING to do with women covering up or men lowering their gaze?
men and women cheat for various reasons. For emotional reasons, for financal reasons... For reasons maybe only the wife and hubby can understand.
Ofcourse the male culprit is most blameworthy, .`
That's really the point that RV and I are making.
No matter how the woman is dressed, she cannot be blamed for being raped/molested/violated.
Re: The Truth About Why Men Cheat
^ And i never implied that from the beginning.
We were not talking about forced relation beforehand.
From that post I really meant that; if more women went round covering more of themselves then regardless of men lowering thier gazes or not, logically they have less to be attracted by.
I said this because, relating to the thread, when a man cheats on his wife, his wife and the 'other' girl' are the ones most affcted/hurt, because they are the physically and socially weaker sex.
Therefore since in this type of cheating-and which is the predominant one, if it would make sense for atleast the 'victim' i.e the women party to do whatver in thier means to minmize safeguard themslves of the risk.
And im not talking about Rape/Molestation once again. IM referring to ATTRACTION.
Most men are not out there to rape women. But a lot of them do get 'attracted', and once a person gets attracted to somebody, its hard to take it out.
And if women purposly go round dressed baring thier flesh and beauty, knowing the type of men or 'wolves' should I say are out there, they will get more attraction, which is the basis of further acquaintences and unhealthy relations.
I was not referring to rape/molestation.
Therefore I do still think women who dress or behave immodestly between men, disobey Allahs commands, and then get men who are only interested in them for only those things, do have a share in the blame, (albeit smaller) in the tragic endings.
And im not again condeminng the decent ladies, I dont think ladies who wear hijab are more pious than those who do not.
Infact a girl who is modestly and fully covered in any kind of clothes is fine.
But ofcourse men should lower thier gazes, I agree to this Muzna and RV, and I would love it if we could, but the thing is how will we enforce all men to do that?
I would fully co-operate if a like thread was made for men.
That's really the point that RV and I are making.
No matter how the woman is dressed, she cannot be blamed for being raped/molested/violated.
Hun YOU HAVE to protect yourself no one else is gonna do it for you, you can't just say I wanna wear all the sluty cloths in the world, and then say "ohh you men out there, don't even think of looking at me or making a move on me". What logic is that?
Why do you think Islam puts such strong attention on the way true Muslim women should dress?????? Its NOT to make your life any harder, but to make is easier!
Now if you had said that women should dress to cover themselves and protect themselves, I would soo agree with you that NO THEN THEY SHOULD NOT BE BLAMED FOR GETTING RAPED/MOLESTED/VIOLATED.
In Islam every idea has commen sense behind it, hence the way women should dress. But people do not even bother to understand the background of each rule of Islam.
I'm sorry but that was just soo stupid! I'm not blaming anyone (men or women) because they're both at fault. Why can't both women and men do their part and keep it moving....Ufff instead of blaming one another.
Re: The Truth About Why Men Cheat
Rape is not about lack of covering, it is about power. If it had anything to do with covering then rape would be most prevalent in the pacific islands and in nudist colonies.
Yes, women should cover. Yes, men should lower their gaze. However, a crime which is fundamentally about establishing power and control over the other party cannot be blamed on the actions of the victim.
Re: The Truth About Why Men Cheat
Yeh Gaia...thats what i was saying from the start.
Was addressing both sexes the same way Allah had.
Also I was only saying it for the ladies benefit rather than anything else.
Ok there are odd cases where minors or hijabans are raped.
But I think everybody here would still agree that if there are two girls equally attractive walking on a street; where one is dressed in a mini skirt and cropped top, and open hair, the other is dressed in full hijab; and assume say there was a hooligan awaiting round the street corner for a 'catch'.
Who would the hooligan go for, the girl with the hijab or the girl with the mini skirt.
Ofcourse logically he would go for the skimply dressed one.
So ladies covering or not covering themselves do have a significant effect on causing attraction or not.
So I conclude the truth why men cheat constitutes of 3 factors:
1) Thier higher sexual and possible polygamous urges relative to women..
2) Less conditioning in upbringing relative to females regarding opposite sex
3) Less social pressures.
4) Possible Neglect of need/attention from spouse.
5) Free and provokative attitudes to dressing of modern women.
So, I conclude if these factors were accordingly tooken onboard and appropriatly addressed with the concerned subjects, it could reduce the problematic phenomena of cheating.
(and before people blow thier guns on point no.1, kindly note it also relates to extra marriage)