Re: The punishment of apostate
It is quite embarrassing to see RV's post #39.
Re: The punishment of apostate
It is a lie to stage elementary school kids will be taught the ways sex can be pleasurable. A lie. No ifs or buts.
Re: The punishment of apostate
I feel immensely embarrassed for you. You welcomed Harris1 as a friggin NEW member. A NEW member even when he had a “knight” pic as his avatar. 
Is liye bas tum chup hi raho.
And, no, Southie, it is no lie. There was a news segment about Planned Parenthood implementing this special sex ed curriculum much to the horror of many, many parents. So, do your research before u accuse me of ‘lying’, a cute and convenient lil habit you’ve picked up from Bella. Again. …chup hi raha karo tum.
Re: The punishment of apostate
Do you even realize that the welcome was in a Cafe thread? It was supposed to be tongue in cheek!
Re: The punishment of apostate
The lie was not abt implementation of sex education. The lie was abt "how many ways to get pleasure sexually" No way elementary school kids will be taught that. Provide a link.
Re: The punishment of apostate
Implementing Sex Education :: Planned Parenthood
Here is a link. Planned parenthood does advocate sex ed from kindergarten onwards. But the operative phrase is “age appropriate” education.
You are entitled to your opinion. Not your facts.
Re: The punishment of apostate
what a mature way! keep it up RV.
Re: The punishment of apostate
whoa.... the OP had no intention to actually 'discuss' the issue.
Re: The punishment of apostate
80 lashes for you is inhumane, but dealing with the aftermath of rampant zina is not inhumane then? There are now talks of implementing a sex ed curriculum where elementary kids will actually be taught the ways in which sex can be pleasurable. Your little one will have wonderful things to look forward to in school. People like you who have issues with every single penalty later wring their hands at the moral decline of society. Forego the lashes, that's inhumane, but have society suffer at large later on. Shaabash.
oh yes US, canada and europe are suffering so badly, yet there is tons of immigrants pouring here everyday from all over the muslim world. can't be that bad right? here you have a choice. no one is forcing anyone to have sex! if you think its a sin, please dont commit this sin. but dont tell a nonreligous person what they should or shouldn't do when its none of your business. please come down from your moral high horse. people can think for themselves, we donot need a religious police telling us what to do with our personal lives.
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Even then the administration for these lashes cannot be done easily, it requires witnesses. And even then we are advised to conceal our sins. The Prophet SAWS waved off the woman who told him she had fornicated, he did not want to know of her sin, but she kept on insisting and the punishment was administered. There must be many Muslims in these shariah-enforced countries who have committed zina and they are not punished. For some folks, even reading about how vile this sin is in Allah's eyes and how severe the punishment is for it, can deter them from committing it again and they can quietly reform their ways. There's a degree of hayaa. If a Muslim has slipped, he/she feels sharam and trues to reform because the SAME religion that has assigned lashes as punishment ALSO says to conceal the sin and repent.
You choose to only see one view of things, Bella. Look at the West, people don't even try to hide or conceal the sin of zina.....on the contrary people, young kids, praise premarital sex, it's a "cool" thing to "score" and "get laid" with little regard for the feelings and dignity of the women being used. Does this state of affairs make you happy, Bella? When there are absolutely no penalties in place......when people don't even bother to conceal their sins but advertise them openly with pride, the resulting consequences are worse than the 80 lashes. Your NARROW VISION fixates on the lashes, only the lashes.....it doesn't acknowledge that the same religion also, out of mercy, emphasizes concealment too. Your mind fixates only on the inhumanity of lashes, not the inhumanity of the moral decline of society. You are an aqal ki andhi. Seriously. You dwell on the detail and are blind to the bigger picture and long-term consequences.
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yes i can look the west and they are doing much better than the east. does it make you happy that people have no freedom in countries with religious laws? yes it doesn't make me happy when i hear about people getting lashes, or getting stoned to death.
lol, you are callling me aqal ki andhi when you cannot even see how religion is being forced onto people! there is obviously alot of compulsion to follow and adhere to Islam when you have such laws enforced! anyone with a brain and ability to read and understand can see that.
you are being extremely hypocritical, and dishonest as well. but that was expected from you
Re: The punishment of apostate
Valid questions from bella re compulsion. Someone brought up similar restrictions in other religions. These questions apply to those religions as well.
Look forward to receiving answers.
RV will never answer this question but will beat around the bush with her lame tactics of making attacks and calling others stupid. thats what she has been doing in almost all her posts here.
Re: The punishment of apostate
Just stick to logic and facts - as you have done. That is the best antidote.
Re: The punishment of apostate
Is this thread about apostate and punishment of apostate in Islam .... or question of morality and immorality?
Re: The punishment of apostate
RV will never answer this question but will beat around the bush with her lame tactics of making attacks and calling others stupid. thats what she has been doing in almost all her posts here.
Yes and calling other peoples' posts bs and lies is very dignified and azeem of you. Point your finger, three point back at you with the same charge.
Re: The punishment of apostate
Is this thread about apostate and punishment of apostate in Islam .... or question of morality and immorality?
It's a khichri of everything and Southie will throw up into it every now and then. She is not content with our explanation of apostasy laws because supposedly the leaders of Muslim countries represent the true Islam for her. She is not content with knowing that Islam grants her the freedom to believe what she wants, she also wants no punishment whatsoever for fornication, adultery, etc. I presented two sides for her that while Islam has set penalties for sins, it also emphasizes concealing sins and reforming one's ways which would then spare one the penalty. She only wants to focus on the inhumanity of lashes and not look at the merciful aspect of it in that Islam also emphasizes concealment. She insists upon seeing it in a strictly, purely negative light. The East sure has it's problems, I won't deny that but certain freedoms of the west are deceptive, it has resulted in many, many problems as well. I have even heard non-Muslims admit to this, they are people whose eyes and ears are open to all that is taking place around them. She is more focused on the evil in the Islamic world. She doesn't want islam to be presented in a positive light, it is like the poison to her, she cannot believe in it. Guidance is in Allah's hands. Allah karay usay hidayat milay or that her outlook on Islam becomes more positive, Amin. I don't care if she disbelieves in Islam, her right. But it's really disturbing to see her persist in her bias and also thay her views of freedom are such that they promote the degradation of women and the moral decline of society. She cannot think long-term about the impact certain freedoms have on society. Cannot think that far and Southie is here to help impede her even further in the guise of open-mindedness. It's very, very sad.
Re: The punishment of apostate
Sure RV. Whatever you say.
So, did you read the planned parenthood link? Anything about teaching elementary school kids the number of ways to get pleasure from sex?
I didn't think so.
Still waiting for you to present a link or two to back up ur charge against planned parenthood.
Though dost protest too much.
Re: The punishment of apostate
Religious laws are there for those who believe and accepted Islam. Its nothing to do with non-believers and there is no compulsion for them. If they do fitna, they should not stay in society that they don’t like. Migration was always an option that was even given to those bitter enemies of the Prophet (SAW) who planned conspiracies against Islam. Read Surah Tauba.
Muslims need not to be apologetic before those who don’t believe with this interpretation of verses related to compulsion. No compulsion of non-believers but believers must abide by each and every law of the religion. If they don’t follow, they should keep on trying to follow.
O you who have believed, enter into Islam completely [and perfectly] and do not follow the footsteps of Satan. Indeed, he is to you a clear enemy.
Surat Al-Baqarah [2:208] - The Noble Qur’an - ??? ???
If there is this verse ‘there is no compulsion in deen’ then there is also ‘For you is your religion, and for me is my religion’.
Re: The punishment of apostate
It's a khichri of everything and Southie will throw up into it every now and then. She is not content with our explanation of apostasy laws because supposedly the leaders of Muslim countries represent the true Islam for her. She is not content with knowing that Islam grants her the freedom to believe what she wants, she also wants no punishment whatsoever for fornication, adultery, etc. I presented two sides for her that while Islam has set penalties for sins, it also emphasizes concealing sins and reforming one's ways which would then spare one the penalty. She only wants to focus on the inhumanity of lashes and not look at the merciful aspect of it in that Islam also emphasizes concealment. She insists upon seeing it in a strictly, purely negative light. The East sure has it's problems, I won't deny that but the freedom of the west is deceptive, it has resulted in many, many problems as well. I have even heard non-Muslims admit to this, they are people whose eyes and ears are open to all that is taking place around them. She is more focused on the evil in the Islamic world. She doesn't want islam to be presented in a positive light, it is like the poison to her, she cannot believe in it. Guidance is in Allah's hands. I don't care if she disbelieves in Islam, her right. But it's really disturbing to see that her views of freedom are such that they promote the degradation of women and the moral decline of society. She cannot think long-term about the impact certain freedoms have on society. Cannot think that far and Southie is here to help impede her even further in the guise of open-mindedness. It's very, very sad.
This set pattern in all the threads is very disturbing and now becoming boring.
Re: The punishment of apostate
Southie Pai…I will not take out the time to post the video of the news segment about this sex ed curriculum. I watched it and I don’t pull things like that out of the air. I think it’s sick to “lie” about something like that. And since I belong to the teaching profession, I would never make up something like that out of my own accord. How much authenticity or credibility is in the news is always debatable, but I didn’t invent this on my own. You accused me of lying though you have not watched it yourself. And you’re the guy who advises others to be open-minded, haina? So you deemed me a bs’ing liar on what basis then? Basically you did so by a default bias. How open-minded of you.:k: Aur jab tum se Knight/Harris1 nahi pehchana gaya, to aik video ko kya samajhna hai tum ne. 
Re: The punishment of apostate
It's a khichri of everything and Southie will throw up into it every now and then. ...
Well, I do not think Southie is Muslim ... Plus, I cannot say 100 percent but I think Southie is 'he' and not 'she'. ...
Anyhow, if one discuss one topic at a time, per thread, then one can answer each and every question logically and with reference (I mean, if one knows, has time and energy), else there would be no understanding of any issue.
Many people do not realize, but we should understand that Islam tries to least interfere with personal life of individuals ... rather emphasis of the religion is to keep society at large clean and morally high, with rights and duties of all, and state responsibility to safeguard rights and duties.
For instance (without going into detail) ... punishment of lashes are only for adultery/fornication ... but looking at requirement of witnesses ... it is almost impossible that punishment could happen. It shows, Islam abhor adultery and fornication, but punishment is only there if such act happens in public (complete bay-hayea) and thus emphasis is to keep society clean.
As for rape, even though some Alims with little brain try to portray that as adultery/fornication it is not adultery/fornication (where no one is victim and thus no crime happens other than crime against the society only if act happened in public), rather rape is clear crime against the society where there is definite victim (girl that got raped), and thus such action do not need 4 witnesses (as required in case of adultery or fornication) but any sort of evidence, including forensic evidence and DNA should be used ... and culprit of rape (not victim) should be punished not with lashes but ... if state wants, execution or long imprisonment.
Re: The punishment of apostate
You need to read my post again. I stated it is a lie to state the elementary school kids will be taught the ways to get pleasure from sex. As soon as I read planned parenthood was being attacked for doing this, it was obvious to me that this is fake. Classic right wing conservative nut jobs doing dirty work.
Whoever stated that planned parenthood is doing this is lying. In this case the person or persons in the video that you state u watched. And u are spreading the lie without knowing the authenticity of the persons in the video. Highly irresponsible.
My post stands. In future I would advise u to exercise better judgment before coming up with bogus accusations. That too against an organization that does so much for women.
next.