Question: Why does Islam punish the apostate by killing?
Islam admits freedom in religion for all those who are under Muslims’ authority, Allah says:
“Say, “The truth is from your Lord” Then whoever wills let him believe, and whoever wills let him disbelieve,” Surat Al-Kahf, Verse 29.
It showed that calling non-Muslims to Islam is only by wisdom and good preaching; it prohibited violence, severity, force, compelling and obligation in calling to religion, because it wants the Muslim to control his heart, so it doesn’t concern the appearance of man but concentrate on calling his interior and this only comes by his choice, if we force someone apparently and caused him to do something, we can’t affect his heart, if he agrees with us apparently and disagree by his heart this is called hypocrisy, Islam prohibit hypocrisy and scold hypocrites, so we see when Islam calls disbelievers or sons or daughters or wives it mainly depends on what Allah says:
“Let there be no compulsion in religion” Surat Al-Bakarah, Verse 256.
The call is only by proof, logic and inference, Islam gives man the chance to believe in any religion he chooses and only announces being a Muslim after persuasion, assurance and evidence, once he becomes a Muslim by persuasion and when he apostatizes he seduces other Muslims around him, so Islam takes a position towards him so as not to affect those around him and they also reverse, this is the opinion of some Muslim scholars. But our opinion as most modern Muslim scholars such as the former Sheikh of Al-Azhar Sheikh Mohammed Sayed Tantawy and others, they see that killing the apostate is not a must in Sharia but only in some situations in which the apostate himself turns to be a fighter and a disputant against Islam.
non-Muslims’ Questions
Re: The punishment of apostate
The call is only by proof, logic and inference, Islam gives man the chance to believe in any religion he chooses and only announces being a Muslim after persuasion, assurance and evidence, once he becomes a Muslim by persuasion and when he apostatizes he seduces other Muslims around him, so Islam takes a position towards him so as not to affect those around him and they also reverse, this is the opinion of some Muslim scholars. But our opinion as most modern Muslim scholars such as the former Sheikh of Al-Azhar Sheikh Mohammed Sayed Tantawy and others, they see that killing the apostate is not a must in Sharia but only in some situations in which the apostate himself turns to be a fighter and a disputant against Islam.
non-Muslims"
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All the verses are logical and fair.
The above pasted portion is troubling. Scholars do have diametrically opposite views. Therein lies the rub.
Re: The punishment of apostate
" All the verses are logical and fair.
The above pasted portion is troubling. Scholars do have diametrically opposite views. Therein lies the rub.
Who are those scholars and what are those differing views?
It seems that your goodself have done lot of research on Islam in recent past. We would like to be benefited from that.
Re: The punishment of apostate
Who are those scholars and what are those differing views?
It seems that your goodself have done lot of research on Islam in recent past. We would like to be benefited from that.
Let us put the sarcasm aside. And just read the pasted portion. Do you have to be so dogmatic that when the facts are presented concisely, you resort to this?
Read carefully. I have praised the scripture. And have stated a FACT. That interpretation of scriptures differ - sometimes by 180 deg. I didn't have to do research to do that. Right there in that para.
Do I need to give other examples?
Re: The punishment of apostate
Let us put the sarcasm aside. And just read the pasted portion. Do you have to be so dogmatic that when the facts are presented concisely, you resort to this?
Read carefully. I have praised the scripture. And have stated a FACT. That interpretation of scriptures differ - sometimes by 180 deg. I didn't have to do research to do that. Right there in that para.
Do I need to give other examples?
I was just praising your keen interest in our religion. This thread was dead and your making it alive must be appreciated.
The pasted part does say that there are differing views on the matter, but it doesn't explain or list down those matters. Your statement 'Scholars do have diametrically opposite views' followed by 'Therein lies the rub' gave an impression that you are well aware of such differing views. so the question.
Re: The punishment of apostate
There is no punishment of changing religion in Islam. No doubt, it is a sin to leave the deen after accepting but a state can render punishment for crimes not sins. The punishment if any lies with the Lord Almighty
Re: The punishment of apostate
I was just praising your keen interest in our religion. This thread was dead and your making it alive must be appreciated.
The pasted part does say that there are differing views on the matter, but it doesn't explain or list down those matters. Your statement 'Scholars do have diametrically opposite views' followed by 'Therein lies the rub' gave an impression that you are well aware of such differing views. so the question.
Sorry. A misunderstanding on my part.
The thread was created only 7.5 hours before my post. The word apostasy caught my attention since that has been discussed of late. Hence my interest.
By therein lies the rub, I meant that is the problem in society. There r multiple interpretations of same text. Sometimes that leads to major problems.
Re: The punishment of apostate
I have a few questions here, can someone explain the bold part?
1)what qualifies as a disputant against islam?
2) does sharia allow an apostate to commit blasphemy and openly speak about why they left islam or what they found wrong in the religion and to speak about religion in a critical way?
3) if a Muslim converts to Christianity, or any other religion, are they allowed to preach their new religion in a muslim sharia country? as per zakir naik, its not allowed in islam. but i dont know if he’s right or is also ignorant about the real islam which people here seem to know more about.
4) is there a punishment for those who are critical or say anything negative about islamic holy figures and scriptures, such as messegners, prophets,caliphs, Quran, or hadith (in a muslim sharia enforced country)?
just need some answers from knowledgeable people here
Re: The punishment of apostate
Also if there is no compulsion in religion, then why is religion enforced in sharia?
for example, there are strict punishment for those who commit fornication, adultery, homosexual acts, and marriage is not allowed b/w a muslim woman and a non-muslim man and if someone does this, its under the same category as fornication and adultery which either require 80 lashes and stoning to death! so why are people forced to live an islamic way only? afterall, there is no complusion in religion.. so why does the state force people to remain celibate before marriage or prevent them from being with the same gender if they are homosexual? seems like the religion is being enforced when there is sharia laws. so then how effective is 'no compulsion in religion' statement?
Re: The punishment of apostate
Prohibition of adultery, fornicantion are also found in Christianity and Judaism. So, I guess you'd class them as the Islamic way as well. Woh alag baat hai that with time laxity has developed in the former two religions, but the same acts are prohibited in their texts as well.
There's a hadith where the Prophet SAWS says if you have no sharam, do whatever you like. What I believe is the root of the problem is one's disbelief in the Quran being Allah's word. This leads to a failure to both accept and understand that as our creator, Allah, knows our natures, our fitrat better than us. Fornication is a societal ill, it's not a good thing or something to be proud of or even to encourage, it's an ill that produces many other problems. There is nothing great about adultery either. Naturally something that is evil will warrant a consequence to deter people from doing it. This is not only found in religion. The preservation of societies require laws and consequences. A more simple example is that of one's family, parents establish rules and consequences for their kids. So, the fact there is a penalty in place for something, be it lashes or otherwise, is not so strange. Nobody can force you to abide by traffic rules, but there is a system in place to ensure the safety and general well being of the people and it is still enforced or implemented. What you seem to want, Bella, is the absolute freedom to do whatever you want....but at the same time you don't want general well-being for society enforced. Buraai karne se koi na rokay...whether it be adultery/fornication.....par achaai ko establish karne ka bhi koi system na ho.
^So that said, Bella your battle is not with religion. Because the other two faiths have similar prohibitions. Your conflict is not even with the books, the shariah, the rulings etc. Your battle is with God. And in the event that you believe in Him, you seem to believe that you know or understand human nature better than Him. And when one believes that an authority figure does not know what they're doing, then they question and criticize more than obey the authority.
Re: The punishment of apostate
I like when not yet muslim people ask religious question. 
Suppose we put 15 fish in a pool, tell them "there is no compulsion in what color you want your skin to be. "
Now what if few fish start pooping the pool ?? making it dirty for other fish.
There is no compulsion in religion that is way you see church/mandir all over pakistan.
But society can not afford people doing fornication and advertising it.
It would rock the society, family system.
Re: The punishment of apostate
dude, all fish poop in the pool. diff is that religious fish think their poop dont stink.
Re: The punishment of apostate
dude no hit and run....
if you want to sit and talk... let me know....
Re: The punishment of apostate
just as soon as you explain the significance of the number 15 for fish, talking to fish, skin color selection capability, and poop. nothing made sense there..
Re: The punishment of apostate
Religious freedom in islamic country does not translate into breaking the foundation of islamic society.
It means you have freedom to practice your religion.
As a matter of fact we enjoy and admire people doing worship. I think.
Can we move forward on the topic? :)
Re: The punishment of apostate
Religious freedom in islamic country does not translate into breaking the foundation of islamic society. It means you have freedom to practice your religion. As a matter of fact we enjoy and admire people doing worship. I think.
and this is why 500,000 hindus in saudi arabia have the ability to worship at.. oh.. zero temples? talk is cheap, but reality is a far cry from what you claim here. islamic societies dont tolerate much dissent even within their own religion, let alone freedom for other ones.
Re: The punishment of apostate
That is sad, I dont know why.
Again all the muslim country(well minus saudi arabia), have always allowed all the non muslims to practice their religion.
Smart guy like your self know better unrest between muslims gotten worst in recent years. Do I need to tell the reasons too ?
That too is a phase with no real bases so it would pass.
That bring a nice point by design in islam the things which don’t have real bases dont stick around.
People ignorance dont get into core religion.
please ask more questions.
Re: The punishment of apostate
there was a time when muslims were way more tolerant than the others, quite recently even - until about 150 years ago. now it is the other way around. and its not just saudia. its like how europe's christianity got trapped in the dark ages and needed renaissance.
Re: The punishment of apostate
Prohibition of adultery, fornicantion are also found in Christianity and Judaism. So, I guess you'd class them as the Islamic way as well. Woh alag baat hai that with time laxity has developed in the former two religions, but the same acts are prohibited in their texts as well.
yes, both christianity and judaism have many similarities to islam. now if i say, islam was influenced by those religions, i will be told, those faith were corrupted so Allah sent down quran and the prophet..
[quote]
There's a hadith where the Prophet SAWS says if you have no sharam, do whatever you like. What I believe is the root of the problem is one's disbelief in the Quran being Allah's word. This leads to a failure to both accept and understand that as our creator, Allah, knows our natures, our fitrat better than us. Fornication is a societal ill, it's not a good thing or something to be proud of or even to encourage, it's an ill that produces many other problems. There is nothing great about adultery either. Naturally something that is evil will warrant a consequence to deter people from doing it. This is not only found in religion. The preservation of societies require laws and consequences. A more simple example is that of one's family, parents establish rules and consequences for their kids. So, the fact there is a penalty in place for something, be it lashes or otherwise, is not so strange. Nobody can force you to abide by traffic rules, but there is a system in place to ensure the safety and general well being of the people and it is still enforced or implemented. What you seem to want, Bella, is the absolute freedom to do whatever you want....but at the same time you don't want general well-being for society enforced. Buraai karne se koi na rokay...whether it be adultery/fornication.....par achaai ko establish karne ka bhi koi system na ho.
[/quote]
you are completely missing the point. agar burai say rokna is by force, then there is compulsion in following religion!
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^So that said, Bella your battle is not with religion. Because the other two faiths have similar prohibitions.
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i am not battling with any religion, i just dont believe in any. and yes the other 2 faith are very similar, hence i dont believe in those either.
[quote]
Your conflict is not even with the books, the shariah, the rulings etc. Your battle is with God. And in the event that you believe in Him, you seem to believe that you know or understand human nature better than Him. And when one believes that an authority figure does not know what they're doing, then they question and criticize more than obey the authority.
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instead of getting so personal and telling me what i feel and what i believe in, how about you just answer the question mentioned in my post? this thread was started by someone clarifying apostasy rulings, so i posted some questions which I had. please learn to post relevant answers
Re: The punishment of apostate
Ok we have consent already.
Only things I want to mentioned, perhaps muslims who have islam in them, are out of power structure.
But there are there, probably little less in % then 150 year ago.
But muslims are only human, you can imagine a how much damage bad leader/govt or people in power can do to general population. To their thinking their way of acting.
But islam as principle and as teaching is there when ever those lost people want to get back. When they decide to get back they will be at accurate point. With zero errors(in human way)