The punishment of apostate

[Monk]

Re: The punishment of apostate

@bella88

yes, both christianity and judaism have many similarities to islam. now if i say, islam was influenced by those religions, i will be told, those faith were corrupted so Allah sent down quran and the prophet..

or they came from same source. Why God wants fornication to be dealt with so much care ?????

Because he made us so he knows... what does he knows..
From "ted.com"
I have heard that only one human activity involved all 5 senses. There is nothing human do is like it.
So probably that is way it need to be dealt with before it take over whole society.

[redvelvet]

Re: The punishment of apostate

Islam was influenced by other two religions? So kinda like the argument that it was plagiarized? Allah clearly says in the Quran that it confirms what is in the other books. So when opponents use the "influenced" or "plagiarized" argument, I'm not swayed by it. They haven't stumbled on a weak point or even anything incredibly new. It's stated by Allah that it's a confirmation and a continuation and rectification and a finalization. No, I'm not getting personal with you, I am just bluntly stating what I believe is the root cause of your frustration with religion...which I don't think is about religion ...it's about something else. Just my opinion. Now if my opinion is right, as in if I'm right in that you are in a battle with God, if you know this to be the case then is ko personally kyun le rahi ho? Reflect and examine.

[Monk]

Re: The punishment of apostate

@redvelvet

Allah clearly says in the Quran that it confirms what is in the other books

:k:

[bella88]

Re: The punishment of apostate

@redvelvet

Islam was influenced by other two religions? So kinda like the argument that it was plagiarized? Allah clearly says in the Quran that it confirms what is in the other books. So when opponents use the "influenced" or "plagiarized" argument, I'm not swayed by it. They haven't stumbled on a weak point or even anything incredibly new. It's stated by Allah that it's a confirmation and a continuation and rectification and a finalization. No, I'm not getting personal with you, I am just bluntly stating what I believe is the root cause of your frustration with religion...which I don't think is about religion ...it's about something else. Just my opinion. Now if my opinion is right, as in if I'm right in that you are in a battle with God, if you know this to be the case then is ko personally kyun le rahi ho?

Forget about my battle with God. Just answer the freaking question.
why is there religious laws enforced when there is no compulsion in religion? if you are forcing people to live a certain way, then there is compulsion. also you skipped all my apostasy related question in the first post. for someone whos so eager to jump down my throat after each post, you sure seem to miss alot of questions.

[Monk]

Re: The punishment of apostate

^your religious freedom does not give you right to mess with society.
(rv copy and paste in your post so bella could see this)

[bella88]

Re: The punishment of apostate

@Monk

^your religious freedom does not give you right to mess with society. (rv copy and paste in your post so bella could see this)

fair enough.
so please dont say there is no compulsion in religion because there is. people are forced to live an islamic way of life in a muslim country meaning there is compulsion and force involved.

[Monk]

Re: The punishment of apostate

@bella88

fair enough. so please dont say there is no compulsion in religion because there is. people are forced to live an islamic way of life in a muslim country meaning there is compulsion and force involved.

no!! even in such dark ages... non tolerance times... non muslims still can buy/drink alcohol(religious freedom)
they can not do it in public or resell it muslims(protection of the society.)

Since you are christian.

Does any where in gospels its say "this is last message" "there wont be any more book"

quiet the opposite it says

in
Deuteronomy
Jhon
(as well in hindu scripture)

That there is some one to come.

[redvelvet]

Re: The punishment of apostate

@bella88

Forget about my battle with God. Just answer the freaking question. why is there religious laws enforced when there is no compulsion in religion? if you are forcing people to live a certain way, then there is compulsion. also you skipped all my apostasy related question in the first post. for someone whos so eager to jump down my throat after each post, you sure seem to miss alot of questions.

The ayat saying that there is no compulsion in religion is found in surah Baqarah. The next part that follows this statement says that the right path has become clear or distinct from the wrong path. So, in terms of faith, no one can put a gun to your head for not believing in Islam. Being forced to say the kalimah will do neither the reciter nor the imposer any good because it's only being recited by the tongue and not the heart. The right path is clear should one use their observation and intellect and if despite them they choose to follow the wrong path, there is no compulsion. So, there's no compulsion in terms of faith. Now let's look at the issue of enforcing.
Take for instance stealing. You may choose not to abide by the thou shalt not steal rule and nobody will force you to, but your refusal is not confined to your life. It transgresses upon others rights, it deprives and hurts others, if the problem is not checked and is allowed to continue, more will suffer, it corrodes relations and the fabric of society.

So, Bella, the right and wrong paths are made clear. You chose to turn away from the right path, you had that freedom, you were not threatened or compelled. A gun wasn't put to your head. You can choose to be a disbeliever for the rest of your live-long days, you are free to do so. This freedom of yours may entail a deliberate rejecting rules like thou shalt not steal, lie, gossip, murder, fornicate, etc. You are free to reject and announce your rejection. Remember there are two paths, you freely chose one. But if you think that a system of justice or enforcement of the security and well-being will not be established for those who chose the path of belief.....you are living in la-la land.

This term of 'enforcement' that you are so stressed out over right now DOES NOT negate your freedom or free will. The disbelievers have their freedom to disbelieve without compulsion. And the believers are provided with a system of enforcement to protect them from the detrimental effects of your disbelief.

Since you are going to be a mother soon, you will not allow your child to roam the house freely without a system in place for his/her well being. Your kid wants to touch the flame on a candle, you restrict him/her because you have more wisdom. Restrictions are not an entirely evil thing, Bella. And pure, unrestricted freedom is not an entirely good thing. A Merciful God does not leave His creation without a system for their well-being.

As for the apostasy question, many people did enough sar-khapaayi with you in your thread and you were not open to understanding then, I don't think anything more can be said on the issue that hasn't been stated before and that hasn't been rejected before.

[bella88]

Re: The punishment of apostate

@redvelvet

The ayat saying that there is no compulsion in religion is found in surah Baqarah. The next part that follows this statement says that the right path has become clear or distinct from the wrong path. So, in terms of faith, no one can put a gun to your head for not believing in Islam. Being forced to say the kalimah will do neither the reciter nor the imposer any good because it's only being recited by the tongue and not the heart. The right path is clear should one use their observation and intellect and if despite them they choose to follow the wrong path, there is no compulsion. So, there's no compulsion in terms of faith. Now let's look at the issue of enforcing. Take for instance stealing. You may choose not to abide by the thou shalt not steal rule and nobody will force you to, but your refusal is not confined to your life. It transgresses upon others rights, it deprives and hurts others, if the problem is not checked and is allowed to continue, more will suffer, it corrodes relations and the fabric of society.

So, Bella, the right and wrong paths are made clear. You chose to turn away from the right path, you had that freedom, you were not threatened or compelled. A gun wasn't put to your head. You can choose to be a disbeliever for the rest of your live-long days, you are free to do so. This freedom of yours may entail a deliberate rejecting rules like thou shalt not steal, lie, gossip, murder, fornicate, etc. You are free to reject and announce your rejection. Remember there are two paths, you freely chose one. But if you think that a system of justice or enforcement of the security and well-being will not be established for those who chose the path of belief.....you are living in la-la land.

i am living in la-la land while there are people being executed for blasphemy, and apostasy in the muslim world! stop being so naiive. a woman was ordered to be executed for marrying a non-muslim man. its you whos living in a complete fantasy la-la land.
religion is ENFORCED in a sharia sytem, so there is compulsion to live by islamic rules.

[quote]

This term of 'enforcement' that you are so stressed out over right now DOES NOT negate your freedom or free will. The disbelievers have their freedom to disbelieve without compulsion. And the believers are provided with a system of enforcement to protect them from the detrimental effects of your disbelief.

[/quote]

can someone living in sharia enforced country have the right to have sex without being married? no. so please stop lying here.

[quote]

Since you are going to be a mother soon, you will not allow your child to roam the house freely without a system in place for his/her well being. Your kid wants to touch the flame on a candle, you restrict him/her because you have more wisdom. Restrictions are not an entirely evil thing, Bella. And pure, unrestricted freedom is not an entirely good thing. A Merciful God does not leave His creation without a system for their well-being.
[/quote]

again, getting even more personal this time. as far as restriction being good or evil, thats a whole another issue. i am not saying whether these laws are evil or not, but the fact that its being enforced, there is compulsion. is that hard to understand such simple things ?

[quote]

As for the apostasy question, many people did enough sar-khapaayi with you in your thread and you were not open to understanding then, I don't think anything more can be said on the issue that hasn't been stated before and that hasn't been rejected before.
[/quote]

read the questions posted initially in this thread rather than making up your own bs lies. you didn't answer to a single one but now making up more lies which you have been doing all this time.

[Sa1eem]

Re: The punishment of apostate

@hassanelagouz

Question: Why does Islam punish the apostate by killing?
Islam admits freedom in religion for all those who are under Muslims’ authority, Allah says:
“Say, “The truth is from your Lord” Then whoever wills let him believe, and whoever wills let him disbelieve,” Surat Al-Kahf, Verse 29.
It showed that calling non-Muslims to Islam is only by wisdom and good preaching; it prohibited violence, severity, force, compelling and obligation in calling to religion, because it wants the Muslim to control his heart, so it doesn’t concern the appearance of man but concentrate on calling his interior and this only comes by his choice, if we force someone apparently and caused him to do something, we can’t affect his heart, if he agrees with us apparently and disagree by his heart this is called hypocrisy, Islam prohibit hypocrisy and scold hypocrites, so we see when Islam calls disbelievers or sons or daughters or wives it mainly depends on what Allah says:
“Let there be no compulsion in religion” Surat Al-Bakarah, Verse 256.
The call is only by proof, logic and inference, Islam gives man the chance to believe in any religion he chooses and only announces being a Muslim after persuasion, assurance and evidence, once he becomes a Muslim by persuasion and when he apostatizes he seduces other Muslims around him, so Islam takes a position towards him so as not to affect those around him and they also reverse, this is the opinion of some Muslim scholars. But our opinion as most modern Muslim scholars such as the former Sheikh of Al-Azhar Sheikh Mohammed Sayed Tantawy and others, they see that killing the apostate is not a must in Sharia but only in some situations in which the apostate himself turns to be a fighter and a disputant against Islam.
non-Muslims’ Questions

https://fbcdn-sphotos-f-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/t1.0-9/p526x296/10436328_680962861952102_3592518835051351543_n.jpg

Over centuries, many things got added to Islam by people who are insecure about their own religious beliefs, were incapable or ignorant to answer question logically, or had doubt that religion Islam could stand upright in front of logical questioning … so instead of increasing their own knowledge, intelligence and ability to think logical, they fabricated hadith to keep many questions at bay … hiding behind their own created draconian laws.

Occasionally, Rulers played a big role in fabrication of hadith too, as they feared that opposition seeing their corrupt rule, could destabilize their government using Quranic ayahs or/and hadiths.

So … my advice is that when seeing anything illogical getting associated with Islam, look into Quran and indisputable hadiths … then only come to conclusion instead of blaming Islam for brutalities, illogical beliefs and ridiculous discrepancies (as Islam is really free from all these … but needs proper thinking, understanding and interpretations of what is already present in Quran).

I wrote on the issue few years ago … and without going into argument or rewriting again … I am posting again what I wrote earlier (in 2010). If you read it and think, I am sure (at least I hope) you will get your answer.

http://www.paklinks.com/gs/religion-and-philosophy/394556-do-you-support-murdering-apostates-2.html#post7147574

@Sa1eem

Though if one reads some hadith one may find text that demands death penalty for apostate, but fact is that, no hadith can supersede Quran and Sunnah [actions of Prophet (SAW)], as when hadith contradicts Quran and/or sunnah, than there is no doubt such hadith is fabricated. According to Quran, and also one historical event regarding action of Prophet (SAW), there is no death penalty for apostate in Islam.

First, let discuss the topic from Quran: According to Quran, it is possible that a person accepts Islam (becomes Muslim), then reject Islam (become apostate — or becomes Kafir again), then become Muslim again (re-enter fold of Islam), then reject Islam again … and so on can do this yo-yo multiple times (according to Quran, by doing such, they keep increasing their unbelief). Now, if there was death penalty than it was not possible that such could happen and since Quran mentions that this could happen, that means … death of apostate is not Islamic … and thus those who claim (or say) that Islam demands death for apostate are rejecter of Allah’s words in Quran. Here is verse from Quran:

Surah Al-Nisa (4), ayah 137: YUSUFALI: Those who believe, then reject faith, then believe (again) and (again) reject faith, and go on increasing in unbelief,- Allah will not forgive them nor guide them nor guide them on the way.

Further, same is mentioned in Quran again … regarding people who reject faith (Islam) after they accepted it (3:86)… Allah do not guide them … EXCEPT … for those that repeat after that and make amends, for verily Allah is oft forgiving and most merciful (3:94) … shows that Allah accepts their re-entering Islam (that was not possible if their punishment was death in the first place). Further, Quran also talks about those who reject faith (Islam) after they accepted it, and then go on adding to their defiance of faith … and so on … So, from these ayah also it is proved that these people are not killed and thus it means Islam does not say that apostate should be killed.

Surah Imran (3), Ayah 86-91:
YUSUFALI: How shall Allah Guide those who reject Faith after they accepted it and bore witness that the Messenger was true and that Clear Signs had come unto them? but Allah guides not a people unjust.
YUSUFALI: Of such the reward is that on them (rests) the curse of Allah, of His angels, and of all mankind;-
YUSUFALI: In that will they dwell; nor will their penalty be lightened, nor respite be (their lot);-
YUSUFALI: Except for those that repent (Even) after that, and make amends; for verily Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.
YUSUFALI: But those who reject Faith after they accepted it, and then go on adding to their defiance of Faith,- never will their repentance be accepted; for they are those who have (of set purpose) gone astray.
YUSUFALI: As to those who reject Faith, and die rejecting,- never would be accepted from any such as much gold as the earth contains, though they should offer it for ransom. For such is (in store) a penalty grievous, and they will find no helpers.

Sunnah of Prophet (SAW): There is not a single confirmed historical event where Prophet (SAW) gave death penalty to anyone who accepted Islam and then became apostate (openly rejected Islam and entered religion of Kafirs again). Actually, such situation did arise in the lifetime of Prophet (SAW) when Abdullah bin Sa’d bin abi Sarh became apostate. His story is that, he not only accepted Islam but became scriber of Holy Quran. Later he went back to his Quraish religion (became apostate) but worse is that he used to joke about Prophet (SAW) and Quran (with lies in his claims). He use to claim that Prophet (SAW) composed Quran himself and it is not revealed.

Before surrender of Mecca, Prophet (SAW) actually ordered about few people who should be killed if they were found, and he was one of them. Anyhow, later when Mecca surrendered to Muslims, Usman (RA) pleaded for his forgiveness and Prophet (SAW) forgave him … though obviously, if it was order of Allah to kill apostate then Prophet (SAW) would not have forgiven him on plea of anyone, including Usman (RA).

Hence, according to Quran and Sunnah [action of Prophet (SAW)], there is no death penalty in Islam for apostate. This is also obvious as Islam teaches that there is no compulsion in religion, and thus if death penalty for apostate was part of Islam, it would have been compulsion in religion. In Islam, Allah even told Prophet (SAW) that Allah has revealed Quran to Prophet (SAW), but as far as believing on Islam and receiving guidance from Quran is concerned, it is up to individual souls for their own benefits or harms … and in this matter (religion), not even Prophet (SAW) has any right to dispose their affairs … whether they believe on Islam, reject Islam, believe and later reject Islam (become apostate), or do whatever they like, as in the end it is they who will die and would get reward or punishment for their deeds in this life.

Surah Az-Zumar (39), ayah 41:YUSUFALI: Verily We have revealed the Book to thee in Truth, for (instructing) mankind. He, then, that receives guidance benefits his own soul: but he that strays injures his own soul. Nor art thou set over them to dispose of their affairs.

**I have to add here that even tough thre are numerous ayahs about people who accept faith (become Muslim) and then reject faith (become apostate) … and then repeat that process without getting punished for that in this world … that goes well with Islamic principle of freedom in faith … as this world is a testing ground and in testing ground such restriction itself invalidates the test … there is not a single ayah in Quran that tells Muslims to kill those who accepted Islam and then rejected Islam (became apostate), just for rejecting Islam.

Killing apostate is allowed and mentioned (but there is condition for it) … as execution of apostate is not for rejecting faith (becoming apostate) but for creating fitna after rejecting faith … that is … becoming apostate and using that rejection of Islam to do propaganda and misguide people … and that happened during earlier days of Islam (especially by Jews). Such people never accepted Islam in first place but their purpose of accepting Islam was to reject it later (a ploy) so that they use that rejection to misguide others from accepting Islam … and such ploy cannot be tolerated … so, to discourage that, execution of apostate was recommended (I do not think ever implemented) especially when apostate once leaving Islam starts propaganda against Islam to misguide others about Islam (using their once Islamic experience).

That is understandable as Islam do not invite people to accept Islam without complete knowledge and understanding of Islam … and there is nothing that Islam hides that one can make excuse about knowing Islam or Islamic beliefs once that person became Muslim … that means … if one wants to leave Islam (become apostate), they can without problem (or fear of execution or retaliation), but they should not become a tool of propaganda full of lies so to misguide others.

**[Killing of apostate is so ridiculous propaganda against Islam that even a person knowing basic fiqh would find reasons to reject that … as in all Islamic Fiqhs, an apostate lose inheritance and marriage also gets dissolved … but if apostate should get executed than one could not even talk about inheritance or dissolution of marriage.

Some pretending to be ‘Aalim’ are so ‘Jahil’ about Islam that they would not hesitate to claim that apostate should get executed and at the same time would say that … if a person said something kufrana they become Kafir and their marriage is also dissolved … so such person should read Kalma again (to become Muslim) and also get their nikah again to keep their marriage … but if a person became Kafir, what the use of reading Kalma again and getting nikah again … as once apostate he should be killed. :)] **

**

[Mr.Popat]

Re: The punishment of apostate

You are free to accept Islam and free to leave it. Islam has no punishment for that. We confuse government's or sometimes individual acts with the teachings of the deen.

[redvelvet]

Re: The punishment of apostate

Tapak kyun rahi ho from apostasy to fornication? You're like all over the place. I have explained in a very calm manner and yet again tum chilaa rahi ho with words like 'bs' and lies. You should be doing cartwheels after I told you that you are freeeeee to choose your belief system, uncompelled by anyone. Par abhi bhi tumhe takleef ho rahi hai? Why? Because the people in shariah-enforced countries can't go on a humping-spree outside of wed-lock as easily as non-shariah counterparts? Removing religion and shariah from the equation, it makes no sense for you to even feel upset at this restriction. Common sense should tell you that such an unchecked azaadi brings with it degradation of women and spread of diseases among other things. Would you feel a lil' bit better if the restriction/prohibition was non-shariah-based? I cannot fathom why on earth you'd feel slighted by a restriction that preserves the dignity and security of your own gender. This is not about using sense, this is about freedom and ego. You are not content if we tell you that you haven granted the freedom to disbelieve, you then also have a problem with a system that prevents fornication and the evils that come with it, lol.

Yaar Bella, hum tumharay saath kyun sar khapaai karte hain? It's actually partly our fault that we're attempting to reason with your ego, that's why you're fuming right now. And it's partly your fault for even baiting people with your questions when you're decidedly against religion.

[queer]

Re: The punishment of apostate

rv je, if apostasy is not a crime, and isnt punishable, why do more than a dozen muslim countries have this as their law? isnt anyone concerned at such blatant misrepresentation of islam?

[Sa1eem]

Re: The punishment of apostate

@queer

rv je, if apostasy is not a crime, and isnt punishable, why do more than a dozen muslim countries have this as their law? isnt anyone concerned at such blatant misrepresentation of islam?

No … … because most Muslims are under the influence of one or other so-called idiots calling themselves Aalim … plus such laws effect people (Muslims at large) the least as most people die in religion they are born and stick with religion as if it is their skin colour rather than belief (right and wrong do not matter to them).

The Alim that influence them, can say that Sky would fall tonight so they should sleep with their legs up so that when sky falls their legs would hold the sky from falling and crushing them, they would do that too.

As far as people with knowledge opposing such law, they should but they do not, because as the society has become, opposition to such laws would only create fitna due to people’s belief, and since such laws do not effect people with knowledge, as they find Islam satisfying all their questions and they accept Islam not because they are born into it, but because they are convinced about it, to talk or think about such laws is meaningless to them anyhow … plus, whatever the law, Muslim society has never executed anyone because of apostasy … other than Khawarijs (who just claim to be Muslim) … but Khawarijs were absent from power since early days of Islam … though they have appeared with force and vengeance in present day (that many Muslim consider days near Qiyamah) and they are showing wide spread influence into power circle too, especially due to strength of Petro dollars.

[bella88]

Re: The punishment of apostate

@redvelvet

Tapak kyun rahi ho from apostasy to fornication? You're like all over the place. I have explained in a very calm manner and yet again tum chilaa rahi ho with words like 'bs' and lies. You should be doing cartwheels after I told you that you are freeeeee to choose your belief system, uncompelled by anyone.

oh how nice of you to allow me the freedom to practice what i want. lol

[quote]
Par abhi bhi tumhe takleef ho rahi hai? Why? Because the people in shariah-enforced countries can't go on a humping-spree outside of wed-lock as easily as non-shariah counterparts?
[/quote]
yes it bothers me when someone gets 80 lashes for having sex. its obvious that islam is forced on those who live in a sharia country.

[quote]
Removing religion and shariah from the equation, it makes no sense for you to even feel upset at this restriction. Common sense should tell you that such an unchecked azaadi brings with it degradation of women and spread of diseases among other things. Would you feel a lil' bit better if the restriction/prohibition was non-shariah-based? I cannot fathom why on earth you'd feel slighted by a restriction that preserves the dignity and security of your own gender. This is not about using sense, this is about freedom and ego. You are not content if we tell you that you haven granted the freedom to disbelieve, you then also have a problem with a system that prevents fornication and the evils that come with it, lol.
[/quote]

stange how millions of muslims try to migrate to western countries all the time who have no such laws and such besharam azaadi lol. countries without sharia laws do much better in general and no one is dying to migrate to such countries yet there is a huge line for people trying to get into US and europe. secondly, how can you ignore that when islamic lifestyle is being forced, then there is compulsion? how can there be no compulsion in religion when you are forced to live an islamic way of life?

[quote]

Yaar Bella, hum tumharay saath kyun sar khapaai karte hain? It's actually partly our fault that we're attempting to reason with your ego, that's why you're fuming right now. And it's partly your fault for even baiting people with your questions when you're decidedly against religion.
[/quote]

yaar RV, please learn to actually read and understand whats been posted rather than making up your own BS . you haven't been able to even address a single question. your nonstop nonsense and attempts to analyze my way of thinking has failed.

[bella88]

Re: The punishment of apostate

@queer

rv je, if apostasy is not a crime, and isnt punishable, why do more than a dozen muslim countries have this as their law? isnt anyone concerned at such blatant misrepresentation of islam?

the worlds only true religion is the most misunderstood one, (by their own followers). :halo:

[redvelvet]

Re: The punishment of apostate

^Not only that, but corrupt leaders can even find "yes-men" aalims who will justify their decisions to save their own skins.

[Southie]

Re: The punishment of apostate

Valid questions from bella re compulsion. Someone brought up similar restrictions in other religions. These questions apply to those religions as well.

Look forward to receiving answers.

[redvelvet]

Re: The punishment of apostate

Southie, if the Bella faaarting, you think it is vary valid thing to do and you enjoy the smell, :k:

And yes, such a remark shows what kind of person i am …much as your incessant and unyielding support of the SAME people, one whom you STILL can’t recognize no matter how many aliases he comes back with, says much about you as well. There, I saved you the chand seconds of telling me the former half of the above.

[redvelvet]

Re: The punishment of apostate

80 lashes for you is inhumane, but dealing with the aftermath of rampant zina is not inhumane then? There are now talks of implementing a sex ed curriculum where elementary kids will actually be taught the ways in which sex can be pleasurable. Your little one will have wonderful things to look forward to in school. People like you who have issues with every single penalty later wring their hands at the moral decline of society. Forego the lashes, that's inhumane, but have society suffer at large later on. Shaabash.

Even then the administration for these lashes cannot be done easily, it requires witnesses. And even then we are advised to conceal our sins. The Prophet SAWS waved off the woman who told him she had fornicated, he did not want to know of her sin, but she kept on insisting and the punishment was administered. There must be many Muslims in these shariah-enforced countries who have committed zina and they are not punished. For some folks, even reading about how vile this sin is in Allah's eyes and how severe the punishment is for it, can deter them from committing it again and they can quietly reform their ways. There's a degree of hayaa. If a Muslim has slipped, he/she feels sharam and trues to reform because the SAME religion that has assigned lashes as punishment ALSO says to conceal the sin and repent.

You choose to only see one view of things, Bella. Look at the West, people don't even try to hide or conceal the sin of zina.....on the contrary people, young kids, praise premarital sex, it's a "cool" thing to "score" and "get laid" with little regard for the feelings and dignity of the women being used. Does this state of affairs make you happy, Bella? When there are absolutely no penalties in place......when people don't even bother to conceal their sins but advertise them openly with pride, the resulting consequences are worse than the 80 lashes. Your NARROW VISION fixates on the lashes, only the lashes.....it doesn't acknowledge that the same religion also, out of mercy, emphasizes concealment too. Your mind fixates only on the inhumanity of lashes, not the inhumanity of the moral decline of society. You are an aqal ki andhi. Seriously. You dwell on the detail and are blind to the bigger picture and long-term consequences.