the new empire of islam ...... now is must

Society Religion & Philosophy
41

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by soul: *

the Decimal system was "invented" by muslims? Ha! Another system which existed well before the muslims stole the credit.
here is the link to the whole history of the system.
www.scit.wlv.ac.uk/univer...17/han.htm

read this-
"In 3000BC the Hindus culture flourished and large numbers were used (inscriptions).
From the middle of 2000BC Indo-European tribes were making their way from the N.W. towards India. They introduced Sanskrit - earliest knowledge of maths from this time.
In Sanskrit there are number words for 1-9, 10, 100 and further powers of 10 - up to 10 - definitely a decimal system."

"The Arabs played an essential part in the dissemination of the numeral system - no number system of their own."

Moslems are credited for learning Hindu numerical system and spreading it to west were they traded...and giving it own mathematician's name- Al-Jazari !!

"...A Latin translation of a Muslim arithmetic text was discovered in 1857 CE at the University of Cambridge library. Entitled 'Algoritimi de Numero Indorum’"

The title '"ALGORITIMI DE NUMERO INDORUM" means "ALGORITIMI ABOUT THE NUMBER OF THE INDIANS".

Darn, Algebra is hardly your contribution. If you think all the rest of the inventions owes its credit to it...than it should not be you taking any credit for it... its real owners are not you!!

Face it courageously, Anti-islamic sites outnumber others. Why??
[/QUOTE]

i said algebra, not the decimal system.

i'm sure you're aware of the distinction.

as for your other claims, well thats your opinion. google out algebra origin. barring an occasional, usually india/hinduism based site though not exclusively so, would cite anyone but the muslims as the principal contributors to the development of algebra.

once again, numerical systems are not algebra.

the distinction is evident in the fact that other numerical systems, apart from the decimal system, have algebras associated with them.

anyway, I see this is a debate where, once again, you'd sooner launch into diatribes and cut and paste, instead of reasoning intelligently.

therefore, adios.

parting shot: as for there being more anti-islamic sites than any others, perhaps thats because thats where your focus is. you do not have any objective data on your claim, which is more of a wish than a claim. what is certain though that google returns more pages for Islam than for christianity its closest competitor. going through the first two pages though (pages are ordered by popularity),i came across two anti islamic pages. to me, thats very positive.

42

Ok so you invented Algebra, out of the blue without numbers....is that t your clever opinion??....well done

Indian mathemathicians invented zero, algebra was called 'Bijaganita' in India. The Arab world merely improvised on Algebra and passed it on to the West. The Arab world calls mathematics as 'Hindsa' or 'from India'! These are only too well-known facts. Any neutral history book can tell you that!

[QUOTE]
parting shot: as for there being more anti-islamic sites than any others, perhaps thats because thats where your focus is. you do not have any objective data on your claim, which is more of a wish than a claim. what is certain though that google returns more pages for Islam than for christianity its closest competitor. going through the first two pages though (pages are ordered by popularity),i came across two anti islamic pages. to me, thats very positive.
[/QUOTE]

this still dosen't answer why world and his brother has something against such peaceloving tolerant creed like yours....

Did i say christians were any better??....

The debate is islamists are the best, are the most tolerant, and have been the most peaceloving through ages....most civilised and without whose contribution..we would've been cave men today! We were burning our women, while they were sorting out algebra problems!!
.and blah blah blah....

Lets not get diversions...clear.

**what does HinduKush means??anyone???

And why have islamic civilization suddenly stopped inventing cars and computers, wot has Khaliffa to do with that??**

gud night.

43

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by soul: *
Ok so you invented Algebra, out of the blue....thats your opinion....
According to me without decimal system and numericals...algebra wouldnt have been there.
breath easy darling...you are loosing your focus.

[/QUOTE]

since I have you on the run, I might as well pursue farther.

If you re-read my original posting, I said that we're taught that Muslims took the mathematical advancements of Hindus and evolved it up a notch.

this certainly does not give us any grounds for complacency. you asked what we had contributed, computers, cars or airplanes. all I'm saying is that our contribution to science has been integral in it getting to where it is, just as your contribution would be.

and its not just algebra, we re-introduced europe to its lost heritage. sadly we lost ourselves somewhere in between.

[QUOTE]

this still dosen't answer why world and his brother has something against such peaceloving tolerant creed like yours....

[/QUOTE]

the world and his brother does not have anything against my peaceloving tolerant creed. some do, thats their prerogative. if it were the case as you say it, then googling "Islam" would not give me pro-muslim sites on the first 50 most highly ranked sites. if anti-islamic sentiments were global they would figure much higher. compound that the factor that muslim countries have some of the lowest internet to person ratio and you have an even tougher problem to explain.

unless you can back your crap up, please refrain from putting it in public domain.

[QUOTE]

Did i say christians were any better??....
The debate is islamists are the best, are the most tolerant, and have been the most peaceloving through ages....most civilised..and blah blah blah....
lets not get diversions...clear.

[/QUOTE]

please dont frame the debate on your own terms. you on the one hand deny Islam even has a civilisation, call us a bunch of barbarians, deny that we made any advancements to science, claim that we're hated by everyone, and then when you're browbeaten you say the debate is not about us being good, its about us being the best.

[QUOTE]

what does HinduKush means??anyone???

gud night.

[/QUOTE]

it means vanquisher of Hindus. Surprisingly, the term is absent from both the Quran and the Sunnah.

44

[QUOTE]
since I have you on the run, I might as well pursue farther.

[/QUOTE]

than why areyou wasting yor sleep over it??

[QUOTE]

If you re-read my original posting, I said that we're taught that Muslims took the mathematical advancements of Hindus and evolved it up a notch.

this certainly does not give us any grounds for complacency. you asked what we had contributed, computers, cars or airplanes. all I'm saying is that our contribution to science has been integral in it getting to where it is, just as your contribution would be.

and its not just algebra, we re-introduced europe to its lost heritage. sadly we lost ourselves somewhere in between
[/QUOTE]

Thx for admitting it...that you merely transported one idea to another shore and called it your invention.

And i standby my words,unlike you dilly dallee...i still question the term 'islamic civilization' and its 'unique contribution'??

**Most what we find in Islamic civilization is derivative rather than original. Arabs Muslims invaded territories which had been civilized for centuries. They did not need to invent anything. Everything was already there.

Civilization does not come out of the blue. Nor did it come for Islam. The invading Arabs were predominantly illiterate nomads - thus incapable of building any civilization without the help of peoples who were already civilized. "Islamic" civilization was in many ways the continuation of the civilizations which had existed before the Arab-Muslim invasions. **

GOT it!!

[QUOTE]
the world and his brother does not have anything against my peaceloving tolerant creed. some do, thats their prerogative.
[/QUOTE]

Thousands of sites, floated by just some few irrelevant ppl who are unnecessarily jealous of yor inventive brains !! iget the pic.

[QUOTE]
it means vanquisher of Hindus.
[/QUOTE]

uummmmm... it means genocide of Hindus in arabic!!
Why were hindus killed by your peaceloving tolerant creed??
And why was Somnath temple destroyed and plundered 16 times by tolerrant god fearing sultan....???
PlzzZZzzzzzzzz...explain???

45

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by soul: *

than why areyou wasting yor sleep over it??

[/QUOTE]

i assure you soul, that to those who posess a nominal understanding of the english language, you would be appearing thorougly ridiculous. kindly stop making an arse of yourself.

[QUOTE]

Thx for admitting it...that you merely transported one idea to another shore and called it your invention.

And i standby my words,unlike you dilly dallee...i still question the term 'islamic civilization' and its 'unique contribution'??

**Most what we find in Islamic civilization is derivative rather than original. Arabs Muslims invaded territories which had been civilized for centuries. They did not need to invent anything. Everything was already there.

Civilization does not come out of the blue. Nor did it come for Islam. The invading Arabs were predominantly illiterate nomads - thus incapable of building any civilization without the help of peoples who were already civilized. "Islamic" civilization was in many ways the continuation of the civilizations which had existed before the Arab-Muslim invasions. **

GOT it!!

[/QUOTE]

by that token, america today did not engender anything to contemporary science and culture, because they merely assimilated and built upon the products of various cultures.

your position would be valid if and only if what we pass on to those who took the torch from us was the unrefined ore we found in pre-islamic civilisations. read into our history, read into the universities and centers of civilisation we had, the fact that mathematics advanced so much beyond the rudimentary decimal system you had.

[QUOTE]

Thousands of sites, floated by just some few irrelevant ppl who are unnecessarily jealous of yor inventive brains !! iget the pic.

[/QUOTE]

i dont attempt to rationalise their motives, but yeah, as far as I'm concerned, they are fairly irrelevant, yes.

[QUOTE]

uummmmm... it means genocide of Hindus in arabic!!
Why were hindus killed by your peaceloving tolerant creed??
And why was Somnath temple destroyed and plundered 16 times by tolerrant god fearing sultan....???
PlzzZZzzzzzzzz...explain???
[/QUOTE]

No, it means "genocide" of Hindus in persian. kinda throws the monkey wrench in your arab theory, no?

46

[QUOTE]
i assure you soul, that to those who posess a nominal understanding of the english language, you would be appearing thorougly ridiculous. kindly stop making an arse of yourself.
[/QUOTE]

personal attacks are best, when things dont go your way. No surprises.

[QUOTE]
by that token, america today did not engender anything to contemporary science and culture, because they merely assimilated and built upon the products of various cultures.

[/QUOTE]

Again it depends on which invention you are talking about....if its continuation of some idea already invented by some one...than i dont call it as an invention. Like your Algebra.

[QUOTE]

your position would be valid if and only if what we pass on to those who took the torch from us was the unrefined ore we found in pre-islamic civilisations. read into our history, read into the universities and centers of civilisation we had, the fact that mathematics advanced so much beyond the rudimentary decimal system you had.
[/QUOTE]

It touched horizons...thx only to you...

You mustn't have ever heard of any other universities like the world's oldest in Taxila or Nalanda...or the ones in athens....or any of the magi run universities in Shiraz and Persepolis...They were all good for nothing....all symbols of unrefined ore found in pre-islamic civilisations.

*Btw, the cradle of civilization started in Mesopotamia much before islam stepped there. *

**So wot about 'Hindu kush'??

why were hindus massacred by invading moslem Sultan ..

and why was somnath destroyed and plundered 16 times by god fearing tolerrant sultan Mohemmad Gazni???

And why are Hindu and Byzantine universities destoryed, by such enlightened brains??? **

47

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by soul: *

personal attacks are best, when things dont go your way. No surprises.

[/QUOTE]

i was merely pointing out that you misinterpreted my posts. no offense.

[QUOTE]

Again it depends on which invention you are talking about....if its countinuation of some idea already invented by some one...than i dont call it as an invention. Like your Algebra.

[/QUOTE]

suit yourself. but what is science if not a continuous evolution of original principles?

[QUOTE]

It touched horizons...thx only to you...
You must've ever heard of any other universities like that of world's oldest in Taxila or Nalanda...or the ones in athens....or any of the magi run universities in Shiraz...They were all good for nothing....all symbols of unrefined ore found in pre-islamic civilisations.
Btw, the cradle of civilization started in mesopotamia much before islam stepped there.
[/QUOTE]

ridiculous. we have all of those in pakistan studies. taxila is in pakistan remember.

oh, and taxila was destroyed around the time of the aryan invasion in case you wish to pin anything on us.. and we didnt have anything to do with greece :)

48

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by soul: *
**So wot about 'Hindu kush'??

[/QUOTE]

what about it?

[QUOTE]

why were hindus massacred by invading moslem Sultan ..

and why was somnath destroyed and plundered 16 times by god fearing tolerrant sultan Mohemmad Gazni???

[/QUOTE]

i guess because not all Muslim sultans represented Islam as it should've been. just so you know, we in our textbooks praise Muhammad Bin Qasim highly for (largely) non-violently winning the Hindus over, as opposed to eulogising the large scale genocide of Hindus.

I dont even care about sultan muhammad gazni, because in my opinion Islam is a religion, and not the magic wand that makes us a nation of saints. we're a nation a humans nevertheless, with human tendencies to be as human as everyone else.

[QUOTE]

And why are Hindu and Byzantine universities destoryed, by such enlightened brains???

[/QUOTE]

unsubstantiated allegation.

49

**So wot about 'Hindu kush'??

why were hindus massacred by invading moslem Sultan ..

and why was somnath destroyed and plundered 16 times by god fearing tolerrant sultan Mohemmad Gazni???

And why are Hindu and Byzantine universities destoryed, by such enlightened brains??? **

I repeat.

[QUOTE]
ridiculous. we have all of those in pakistan studies. taxila is in pakistan remember.

oh, and taxila was destroyed around the time of the aryan invasion in case you wish to pin anything on us.. and we didnt have anything to do with greece
[/QUOTE]

Taxila is a hindu university..remember built by uncivilised pre islamic barbarrian hindus.

That shows that pakistan was a Hindu dominated territory and hinduism was practised there ...what happened to hindus staying there....were they killed or converted by your tolerrant forefathers???

And who told you aryans destroyed it?? It was there during Chandra gupta Maurya's period...and neither had greek damaged it....it was very much there till arabs/turks invaded the land.
any idea why???

50

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by soul: *

Taxila is a hindu university..remember built by uncivilised pre islamic barbarrian hindus.

That shows that pakistan was a Hindu dominated territory and hinduism was practised there ...what happened to hindus staying there....were they killed or converted by your tolerrant forefathers???

And who told you aryans destroyed it?? It was there during Chandra gupta Maurya's period...and neither had greek damaged it....it was very much there till arabs/turks invaded the land.
any idea why???
[/QUOTE]

i guess thats where your view of history and mine differs. Your history against mine.

given that you cant prove me wrong, nor the converse, its a moot point. next question?

51

Ravage, its ok!! if you dont have answers....

But dont try to wash hands off the genocide of various ethnic people by your peaceloving tolerrant islamists...simply by disowning them.
I am talking about genocides of Hindus merely 'cause you and rest here are well versed with history of this part....If you want i can talk about genocide of Slavs, the Parsis, the Byzantines and Syrian Christians and jews too.

The debate is Islamic empire was the most tolerrant towards the natives and their faiths. And they brought civilization to pre-islamic natives,which are described as barberrians.

52

http://www.livius.org/ta-td/taxila/taxila.htm

http://www.encyclopedia.com/html/t/taxila.asp

not the aryans, the huns apparently.

oh well.

53

**So wot about 'Hindu kush'??

why were hindus massacred by invading tolerrant islamists?? ..

and why was somnath temple in gujrat destroyed and plundered 16 times by god fearing, tolerrant, peaceloving sultan Mohemmad Gazni???

And why are Hindu and Byzantine universities destoryed, by such enlightened brains??? **

anyone else!!

Ravage, i am logging off...
chiow bye!!

54

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by soul: *
Ravage, its ok!! if you dont have answers....

But dont try to wash hands off the genocide of various ethnic people by your peaceloving tolerrant islamists...simply by disowning them.
I am talking about genocides of Hindus merely 'cause you and rest here are well versed with history of this part....If you want i can talk about genocide of Slavs, the Parsis, the Byzantines and Syrian Christians and jews too.

The debate is Islamic empire was the most tolerrant towards the natives and their faiths. And they brought civilization to pre-islamic natives,which are described as babberrians.
[/QUOTE]

see above post

55

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by soul: *

wots going to be the status of non moslems in ya wet dream khalifah??
[/QUOTE]

What makes you think non-moselims will be there in the Khalifah?

56

Still better, how are you going to build grand Khaliffaah of Pakistan and Bangladesh, with India inbetween....last time you tried it flopped miserably.

57

i m not talking about the khilafah which only contains pak, bang and ind
but i mean khilafah in true sense… khilafah means the union of the muslims under one leadership not union of muslim countries… and khilafah is not like a country having boundries otherwise khilafah is free from boundries, ethnic and religious divisions … it is all about the union under one leadership and under that union everyone whether muslim or christian or hindu or jew or … everyone accept the leader and his words … so khialfah is the sysytem of government which provide peace, harmony, security, rights, to everyone under islamic law … remeber in the khlafut of Hazrut Omer :ra: there were also jews and christian tribes who accept jaziya and they lived independently under the muslim rule …

my point was 2 established a union of muslims and allies under one leadership free from boundries and nationalism

58

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by thelostemperor: *

it is all about the union under one leadership and under that union everyone whether muslim or christian or hindu or jew or .... everyone accept the leader and his words ..... so khialfah is the sysytem of government which provide peace, harmony, security, rights, to everyone under islamic law .....
[/QUOTE]

Is it possible to provide peace, harmony, security and rights to everyone without khilafa? Is it possible for muslim creativity to flourish under present system of govt - be it American or Pakistani?

59

I don't know why these people are so much obsessed with Pakistan. Why don't they put their own house in order before blaming us. The hidutva criminals who were involved in the pogroms of Gujarat and Delhi haven't been convicted yet and now Assam is becoming another basket case, so stop pontificating. We cannot be held responsible for the deeds of Ghoris and Ghaznavis.

60

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by karina: *

Is it possible to provide peace, harmony, security and rights to everyone without khilafa? Is it possible for muslim creativity to flourish under present system of govt - be it American or Pakistani?
[/QUOTE]

These people are actually living in the past. They better try to understand how the secular democraies in the west are providing all those things they are dreaming of. Why reinventing the wheel?