[quote]
Originally posted by blackzero:
If I was a non-muslim looking on this section I would have a very weak view of the muslim ummah..
[/quote]
ditto kalasifr. you take my words. i also think like that.
if i were born a non muslim today and given a choice i would rather have chosen to keep my non muslim faith rather than to enter this dirty and most disgusting religion on earth whose people even don’t know how to respect their founders.
no doubt we have lost are credibility.
Nnga and co,
Keep opposing, it only stregthens our faith in Islam and Miracles.
Nara-e-haideri
Ya Ali (a.s)!!
a1shah...>>Baktry - you can bet I will stay on course to deal with wahabis like u. I state again, shias believe in the complete infallability to the Qur'an. This holy book is in the same form as the messages that the holy apostle received.
It was recited and taught to the ummat by the 12 holy imams in this form. If anyone says otherwise, he is a kafir.<<
a1shah sahib! my screen name is Baykhatr, and not Baktry. To misnome other is totally unIslamic. So may I expect that you please refrain from such practice. The second request I have is please do not lable me as wahabi.
When you say this holy book, I am sure you mean that the one majority of the Muslim world has? If so, please mention the sura# or name and aya#, which suggest that Syedna Ali is Imam or Wali.
Please no mud slinging.
Thankyou.
and those who leave perpetual messages about their departure are still around! Which reminds me of this sheyr
safar wapsi ka holay taiy karo keh uus nay
abhi wapas bulana hai abhi awaaz daini hay
fit ghatta!
Baktry;
Go teach yr islam to someone else. You do not even have any trust in Allah (swt) who Himself is the guardian of the holy Qur'an.
Your belief in the fact that another Qur'an (May Allah (swt) save us from such beliefs) tells the world what you wahabras think of the Lord Almighty - that He is not sufficient to protect His holy message.
May Allah save you from mis-guidance, in which you have strongly indulged.
Islam to you is putting ittar, wearing white clothes, and brushing yr teeth with mishaq. For you all, this is all what the holy apostle (pbuh) has taught you.
Loving the holy ahl bait and condemning those who committed murders against his holy grandson is beyond you wahabras.
May you join Yazid in yr endeavours.
Baktry;
Out of my great respect to you, I would like to call upon u as "Yazid ka bacha".
I am sure that you will not mind, him being a great companion and all, and in this way, I can feel as though we are bonding.
I sincerely hope that by the grace of Almight Allah (swt), you achieve in this world and in the hereafter, all what Yazid achieved - with his numerous great deeds.
I hope that we can get closer and be "friends".
Respectfully yours, always.
Suffices that the holy Qur'an has commanded us to obey the prophet (pbuh). Seeking his obedience is obedience to Allah (swt).
As for what the holy prophet has commanded us, he had assigned Imam Ali (as) as the Master of believers at Ghadir Ghum. This is an undisputed fact written in hundreds of yr sunni books. I have mentioned these sources in my other threads.
The holy Qur'an has told you in 55:55, that the Master is Allah, his prophet, and believers, those that give charity while in prostration. This is in clear reference to Imam Ali (as) but be sure to get the correct english translation. Sunni translation of this verse gives a completely new meaning, so be sure to get a person fluent in Arabic to translate it for you.
The Qur'an also tells you to ask "the people of Reminders" and those "firmly grounded in knowledge" if you are in doubt, again referring to the holy ahl bait. Believe me, it aint Aisha, Abu Baker, and the rest of the people that you would like to believe for the simple reason that history knows that they were not knowledgeable in Islamic jurisprudence.
The ahl bait, from Imam Ali (as) to the twelvth imam, Imam Mahdi (as), the Awaited one, have been acknowledged by the ummat, both shias and sunnis, to be the most knowledgeable in Islamic and worldly laws since they are from the seeds of the holy prophet (as).
Hope this suffices.
Wa Salam.
PS: You have made me break my promise of not wanting to post anymore.
A11Shah, Thank you for posting this Quranic reference. I am at work rightnow, therefore unable to post a lengthy repsonse. Would be glad to put a correct interpretation as soon as I have a chance.
a1shah....>>Your belief in the fact that another Qur'an (May Allah (swt) save us from such beliefs) tells the world what you wahabras think of the Lord Almighty - that He is not sufficient to protect His holy message.<<
I said this b4. I am not a wahabi. And please stop labeling other. If you cannot stand the heat, I suggest get out of the kitchen. I do not believe that the Qura~n I have is tampered. It is the majority of Shia scholars who utter so. Here are the sayings of the Imams about tampering with the Quran:
In Kafi there is a chapter entitled Fazl-ul-Quran. In it there is a tradition of Imam Jafar as-Sadiq telling that 2/3 of the Quran is done away with. It reads:
It is related by Hisham bin Salim that Imam Jafar as-Sadiq said: " The Quran which Gabriel brought to Muhammad consisted of 17,000 verses." The present Quran contains a little more than 6,000 verses. The commentator of Kafi, Allama Qazwini says in the explanation of the same tradition that the total number of verses according to one view, is 6356, and according to another, 6236. But according to Imam Jafar as-Sadiqs saying quoted above, the Quran
originally consisted of 17,000 verses which means about 2/3 of the Quran has been removed. Dwelling upon it, Qwazini writes that "the saying of Imam Jafar as-Sadiq denotes that from the original Quran a lot of portions have been deleted and removed and are not included in the existing Quran."
a1shah....>>May you join Yazid in yr endeavours.<<
You know very well that the associate of Yazid were those who started beating themsleves, when the sacred head of Syedna Imam Hussain, was brought to him.
a1shah....>>The Qur'an also tells you to ask "the people of Reminders" and those "firmly grounded in knowledge" if you are in doubt, again referring to the holy ahl bait. Believe me, it aint Aisha, Abu Baker, and the rest of the people that you would like to believe for the simple reason that history knows that they were not knowledgeable in Islamic jurisprudence.<<
Here is a verse from the Quraan telling what to do for who are making Fitnah (inducing troubles may lead to a big fight and corruption) in Islam. As they always inducing their people against Moslems by cursing Sahaba, Aisha, and other noble comapanions. And they inviting all Shia to curse their followers
Al-Anfal:39 And fight them on until there is no more tumult or oppression, and there prevails justice and faith in Allah altogether and everywhere; but if they cease, verily Allah doth see all that they do."
The Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) said:
(1) "Cursing a believer is like killing him."
(2) "When a servant curses something, the curse rises up to the sky, where the doors of the sky shut it out, and then it falls back to earth, where the doors of the earth shut it out. Then it searches right and left and when it does not find anywhere to go it comes back to the thing which was cursed, should it deserve it. If not, it returns upon the person who uttered it.".
The Prophet (Allah bless him and give him peace) said,
"The curse of Allah is upon whoever reviles my Companions." [narrated ibn abi Asim]
The same verses of the quran about the Jews are practically useful with these people, because such Sects basically produced by Jews . Here is an example:
Quran Al-Nisa:46 Of the Jews there are those who displace words from their (right places and say: "we hear and we disobey", and "hear , may you not hear;" and "Ra'ina"; with twist of their tonges and a slander to Faith. If only they had said; "We hear and we obey"; and "Do hear"; and "Do look at us": it would have been better for them, and more proper; but Allah hath cursed them for their Unbelief; and but few of them will believe."
Could Baykhatr, Abdullah k (especially you 2)and others show me where it says:
Follow Quran & Sunnah!
You R quick to reject the other interpretation of Imamat as "the Rope" and "one of the 2 weighty things", then please:
Show me where it says that believers should look at the Sunnah for:
(1)solutions and,
(2)meanings to the Quran for all ages & eternity!
What the hell is going on here? Admin bhai, why accusing me of anything here. I have a right to ask. I have no connection with Humble or any other nicks . Barely started posting, but you people are useless and worthless. I found this place interesting to begin with, but with these accusations aginst members, I dont think you all are ok,,,,,,,,,
Ashee
Faceup/Logical wrong move!!! Since you have messed with me, I challenge you to put forward your interpretation of Islam so I can take pleasure in ripping it apart.
*A believer doesn't have to proof anything. His/her faith should be concrete solid without any doubts as Allah reveals to all the *Momineen in Surrah Al-Mulk **:
Lordship in right and in fact belongs To Allah Most Gracious, Whose Goodness And glory and Power are writ large on all His creation. The beauty and order of the Heavens above us proclaim Him. Then who can reject His call but those in pitful delusion? And who can fail to accept, that truly knows himself and mighty reality behind him? The earth and the good things thereof are prepared for man by his Gracious Lord. Who sustains the wonderful flight of the birds in midair? Above, and below, and in midair can we see His boundless signs. We know that His promise of Hereafter is true. The spring and source of the goodness of things IS in Him, and will appear triumphant when the Hour is established [67:1-30]
[This message has been edited by Abdullah k (edited September 23, 2000).]
Abdullah K
Never start a debate with self praise like you did praising yourself!
Pls answer my questions posted September 23, 2000 12:04 PM
Since, you got your head wrapped up in that brown bag that is why you are unable to comprehend what's mentioned in the Quranic translation I provided. Get that bag off of your head so you can see clearly.
[This message has been edited by Abdullah k (edited September 23, 2000).]
Abdullah
I posted the set of questions which I'll re-post again. Instead of answering you have:
i)threatened to rip my heart out;
ii)called my post "wrong move";
iii) etc, etc.
Listen, I wouldn't give two bits to you and your "Shataniyat".
This is my set of questions to you; PLS ANSWER THEM INDIVIDUALLY; posted September 23, 2000 12:04 PM
Could Baykhatr, Abdullah k (especially you 2)and others show me where it says:
Follow Quran & Sunnah!
You R quick to reject the other interpretation of Imamat as "the Rope" and "one of the 2 weighty things", then please:
Show me where it says that believers should look at the Sunnah for:
(1)solutions and,
(2)meanings to the Quran for all ages & eternity!
All bull shit...... majority of you guys believe in things which are not at all Islam or near to the real religion.
First of all there is no such thing as Imam ALI.... just he deserve the respect as other companions of Mohammad S.A.W.
I will believe it if its written in Holy Quran. To me hadidths are false all of them and they are not part of Islam.
bg
Long time, no see!
So, wahabis are now rejecting sunnah/hadiths of the prophet (SAW) - the cornerstone of their wahabiyya belief! Poor bukhari & muslim!
Ask a wahabi about his/her belief and the response will be that they follow only "Quran & Sunnah"! Now, bg is ridiculing prophet's sunnah!
What is next for the wahabis?
Faceup
Laughing on you reply. I am not Wahabi at all.
I am very busy so cannot follow the discussions completely that is why I was away.
Here are my questions about Hadidths....... majority of you believe in Hadidth that prophet Mohammad S.A.W. ordered strickly not to write anything about him or sayings.... This all of you believe in.
My question is how come some guys like Bukhari and others decided to write the sayings of Prophet Mohammed S.A.W. 200 years after his death become the important part of religion instead of Quran. Majority of Muslims believe in these hadidths more than Quran. This is not Islam.
Islam is not following Mohammad, true Islam is to follow the Quran.
To me all hadidths are simple stories. These are created to make their beliefs and sects look great.
How could I believe in something like second coming of Jesus, or Mirza Ghulam Ahmed as Promised Misiah or Bhai as Prophet, or Black American Alijah Mohammed as Prophet.
Islam is practical and logical religion and all these things dosn't fit into logical frame.
Regards,
BG
I called you a wahabi based on our previous debates at which time you accepted to be a follower of the wahabiyya or salafiyya.
Anyways - you were a waste of time back then and are NOW. So, go chase yourself!
Faceup
Don't want to get personal or be rude like you to call you waste of time.
All you people when they don't have reply try to run away from the discusion and start swearing at other people.
Read Quran and try to understand it. May Allah S.W.T. help you to understand it correctly.
Still my best Regards,