Re: The Money of the Female
that’s a very negative attitude. please don’t put such a spin on a good lesson.
there’s nothing wrong with a man asking for help from his wife. after all, who is a person supposed to turn to if not their partner in life?
the fact that Allah has ordained the woman’s earnings as sadaqa does not mean that it is a sin or taboo to seek assistance from her. it simply means that Allah has provided yet another means for the woman to earn her jannah.
Re: The Money of the Female
I am not giving a spin to a good lesson. I am in no way saying its wrong but the money she earns is hers & husband has no right over it as man is the provider of the house, wife earning or no earning. Did you hear what Noman Ali Khan said towards the end of the video & why he bothered with that? These days it has become a norm for girls to work & its expected from them to contribute in the family no matter what hence they are forced sometimes to work even though they don’t want to just because they don’t want to get judged by the husband & society. If a men is earning enough to support a family then why he bothers/forces his wife to work? Just so he can have khairat & that too if she “chooses” to, thats not his decision to make let alone forcing her. If a girl choose to contribute financially, it’s not a sin for a girl but what it is for the guy?
Which man with a decent job & earnings take khairat these days & who would?
There is a reason why the word “charity” has been used, not right, not duty but the word “charity”.
So guys man up.
Re: The Money of the Female
I see that your comments are directed at the group that “demand” that their wives contribute financially to the family income. Perhaps the negativity is valid there.
My concern is that by putting your sentiments in these words…
…you were suggesting that if a man “wants” his wife to contribute because he is unable to support his family then he is not deserving of respect.
I disagree with that.
There can come a time in a anyone’s life when they are unable to support their family due to unforeseen circumstances…an illness, an injury, loss of employment, etc. If a man comes to his wife and asks her to help out then there is no harm/sin/shame in that.
Re: The Money of the Female
^I mentioned in my post that if a guy earns decent enough to provide for her & gives her a good lifestyle then why force her to work? But you are mentioning some circumstances which are understandable, in the times of trouble she should contribute of course but I am talking about times where there is no need. And forcing her to do things which she doesn't want to is a zulm in my opinion.
Re: The Money of the Female
Think this is a brilliant thread. I wish there was more awareness on this topic as I think Men/thier families nowadays expect women to work and feel entitled to her money regardless of whether they earn enough or not. Its becoming a mentality and the norm.
I came from a fairly comfortable family ALH and before marriage I worked because I wanted too (I am a lawyer by profession and obviously dont want to waste my education) but after marriage I am expected to work and contribute to bills equally. Hubby believes since we live in the 21st century with equal opportunities that he is entitled to my contribution in everything. He doesnt need my contribution just feels its fair. I was still studying when we got married so didnt really have the conversation regarding finances before and it wouldnt have been a deal breaker for me anyways as I dont mind paying but sometimes feel sad that he treats it like haq rather than sadqa on my part.
Its funny because he sends money to his family back home (his dad has just refused to work for the last 15 years for no real reason) and they say it is his duty to support them but they would never acknowledge that I might have any right over his earnings and instead they will act like it is a major sin if tomorrow I didnt contribute. Above all I just find that attitude wrong on so many levels.
In fact Islamically you only have to support your parents if they need it and are poor as it is not obligatory whereas for a wife you must pay for her food and shelter at least.
My family is looking for a potential rishta for my younger sister and we had a family come round recently and they actually asked what the maternity benefits was like at her work and childcare benefits in the first visit. Shows how critical is it for them. In fact most people who will call us up will start with her profession first even though these families are very comfortable financially. They see it as free money really and look down on women who dont want to work.
I know about everywhere else but this is my experience based in the UK - I think its become tough for women of my generation compared to our parents as we still expected to run a household on top of working.
Something somewhere will have to give ...cant have it all guys!
Re: The Money of the Female
Thanks Grateful for sharing your story.
I think you are right that many people have a certain "expectation" that when a woman is earning she will, by default, contribute to the general expenses of the home. And yes, many people include the money that she will be bringing home in the equation when they seek to budget their lifestyles (i.e. buy another/new/better car or home, take vacations, contribute to the living expenses of family back home, etc, etc.)
This is the main reason that I wanted to post the video. I want people to understand what they are getting themselves into. I want them to realize that when they ask for that contribution from their DIL, wife, sister, daughter, they are asking her to do something that she is not obligated to do. And when someone is not obligated to do something and they choose to exercise that right, they should not be condemned or penalized.
The secondary reason is to provide some sense of consolation to the women out there that have in the past or are currently contributing financially to their families; to give them assurance that their efforts will be rewarded not only in this life but in the next by Allah swt. That every single penny/paisa they provide for rent, groceries, car payments, insurance, tuition, utilities, necessary clothing and any other staple need will be counted by the Almighty in their favour. Alhamdulillah.
Re: The Money of the Female
Think this is a brilliant thread. I wish there was more awareness on this topic as I think Men/thier families nowadays expect women to work and feel entitled to her money regardless of whether they earn enough or not. Its becoming a mentality and the norm.
I came from a fairly comfortable family ALH and before marriage I worked because I wanted too (I am a lawyer by profession and obviously dont want to waste my education) but after marriage I am expected to work and contribute to bills equally.** Hubby believes since we live in the 21st century with equal opportunities that he is entitled to my contribution in everything**. He doesnt need my contribution just feels its fair. I was still studying when we got married so didnt really have the conversation regarding finances before and it wouldnt have been a deal breaker for me anyways as I dont mind paying but sometimes feel sad that he treats it like haq rather than sadqa on my part.
Its funny because he sends money to his family back home (his dad has just refused to work for the last 15 years for no real reason) and they say it is his duty to support them but they would never acknowledge that I might have any right over his earnings and instead they will act like it is a major sin if tomorrow I didnt contribute. Above all I just find that attitude wrong on so many levels.
In fact Islamically you only have to support your parents if they need it and are poor as it is not obligatory whereas for a wife you must pay for her food and shelter at least.
My family is looking for a potential rishta for my younger sister and we had a family come round recently and they actually asked what the maternity benefits was like at her work and childcare benefits in the first visit. Shows how critical is it for them. In fact most people who will call us up will start with her profession first even though these families are very comfortable financially. They see it as free money really and look down on women who dont want to work.
I know about everywhere else but this is my experience based in the UK - I think its become tough for women of my generation compared to our parents as we still expected to run a household on top of working.
Something somewhere will have to give ...cant have it all guys!
I agree with your husband - equal rights means equal responsibilities.
However, he should be contributing to your relationship by dong things that a woman would traditionally do.
As far as sending money to parents, hmmm, bit of a tricky one for me as I've never experienced this with my family.
As far as women being peeved off that guys expect them to share household finances and women turning around and going islamic on their ass - why don't women in the UK just do nikkah without the civil ceremony? This way your husband will be protected from you taking the house under the guise of women getting primary custody of children and thus the house if you ever divorce - being islamic and all.
Girls, it works both ways. You want the protection afforded under western law in to relation divorce and division of assets yet want to live contradictory to your western non-muslim female counterparts and don't want to equally contribute to household expenses. You're correct - you can't have it all!
Re: The Money of the Female
I agree with your husband - equal rights means equal responsibilities.
However, he should be contributing to your relationship by dong things that a woman would traditionally do.
As far as sending money to parents, hmmm, bit of a tricky one for me as I've never experienced this with my family.
As far as women being peeved off that guys expect them to share household finances and women turning around and going islamic on their ass - why don't women in the UK just do nikkah without the civil ceremony? This way your husband will be protected from you taking the house under the guise of women getting primary custody of children and thus the house if you ever divorce - being islamic and all.
Girls, it works both ways. You want the protection afforded under western law in to relation divorce and division of assets yet want to live contradictory to your western non-muslim female counterparts and don't want to equally contribute to household expenses. You're correct - you can't have it all!
Why do you keep bringing up divorce?
Why not talk about living in matrimony according to the deen first?
I'm sure that if a man were to agree that he would have no right and would never count on or make use of the money that his wife earns over the course of their marriage then she would be happy to give up the rights to the equal division of property in the case of marriage breakdown. (Keep in mind that any woman that thinks this through will likely include a sizeable amount for her mehr as protection for herself.)
Re: The Money of the Female
Why do you keep bringing up divorce? Why not talk about living in matrimony according to the deen first?
I'm sure that if a man were to agree that he would have no right and would never count on or make use of the money that his wife earns over the course of their marriage then she would be happy to give up the rights to the equal division of property in the case of marriage breakdown. (Keep in mind that any woman that thinks this through will likely include a sizeable amount for her mehr as protection for herself.)
I agree, if we stick to the deen everything would be great - however, particularly in the UK, both men and women ***** and complain about rights and responsibilities. When one right becomes an asset for one sex, it becomes a liability for the other and vice versa. When women share household expenses they complain and go all islamic on men. When men complain about division of assets women shame them in to piping down and use their god given ability to have children as an excuse (women should be primary custodians of children, impact of divorce should be limited on children thus children should get to remain in their house, women getting to keep the house even if hubby paid the bills and mortgage for 25 years and now has to go and rent a studio apartment somewhere). Just saying. It works both ways.
Me personally, I have no issue supporting a wife who doesn't work - provided we do nikkah only or she signs a prenup. No one goes into marriage thinking of divorce, but the statistics in the UK and US don't lie! Number never lie.
Re: The Money of the Female
I agree, if we stick to the deen everything would be great - however, particularly in the UK, both men and women ***** and complain about rights and responsibilities. When one right becomes an asset for one sex, it becomes a liability for the other and vice versa. When women share household expenses they complain and go all islamic on men. When men complain about division of assets women shame them in to piping down and use their god given ability to have children as an excuse (women should be primary custodians of children, impact of divorce should be limited on children thus children should get to remain in their house, women getting to keep the house even if hubby paid the bills and mortgage for 25 years and now has to go and rent a studio apartment somewhere). Just saying. It works both ways.
Me personally, I have no issue supporting a wife who doesn't work - provided we do nikkah only or she signs a prenup. No one goes into marriage thinking of divorce, but the statistics in the UK and US don't lie! Number never lie.
One's asset only becomes a liability for the other if there is imbalance somewhere to begin with. Our deen is not designed to be partial to any gender in the case of marriage.
If the husband is providing for the wife and keeping her in a comfortable fashion then she has no need to go to work.
If the wife chooses to work then the husband should not eye her earnings or use from them to pay for those things that he is obligated to provide and she should not expect him to pick up any of the household chores that are her responsibility.
If the husband asks for his wife to contribute then he should be willing to pick up some of the responsibilities that she would otherwise deliver (i.e. cooking, cleaning, childcare, etc.)
As an aside.....I would have doubts about any man that would prefer his own comfort to the comfort of his children (referencing your studio apartment comment here). The men I know who have chosen to split from their wives have gone to great lengths to make sure that the lifestyle of their children does not deteriorate.
Re: The Money of the Female
I agree, if we stick to the deen everything would be great - however, particularly in the UK, both men and women ***** and complain about rights and responsibilities. When one right becomes an asset for one sex, it becomes a liability for the other and vice versa. When women share household expenses they complain and go all islamic on men. When men complain about division of assets women shame them in to piping down and use their god given ability to have children as an excuse (women should be primary custodians of children, impact of divorce should be limited on children thus children should get to remain in their house, women getting to keep the house even if hubby paid the bills and mortgage for 25 years and now has to go and rent a studio apartment somewhere). Just saying. It works both ways.
Me personally, I have no issue supporting a wife who doesn't work - provided we do nikkah only or she signs a prenup. No one goes into marriage thinking of divorce, but the statistics in the UK and US don't lie! Number never lie.
Just so you know the woman can put down any number of conditions in her nikkah nama. Also going into a marriage with divorce as a possible end goal isn't exactly starting married life out on a positive is it? You want a good wife? Do dua. Allah will guarantee it. Last ten days of Ramadhan. Better start praying.
Re: The Money of the Female
Just so you know the woman can put down any number of conditions in her nikkah nama. Also going into a marriage with divorce as a possible end goal isn't exactly starting married life out on a positive is it? You want a good wife? Do dua. Allah will guarantee it. Last ten days of Ramadhan. Better start praying.
I knew there was something else that I wanted to mention!
Just because it is a nikah does not mean she can not have conditions attached.......of course you can agree to pass up on the union if you don't like the clauses but insisting on a nikah does not protect you.
And I'm not sure about the laws in UK but in Canada, a nikah is binding and seen as the equivalent of a registered marriage.
Re: The Money of the Female
Just so you know the woman can put down any number of conditions in her nikkah nama. Also going into a marriage with divorce as a possible end goal isn't exactly starting married life out on a positive is it? You want a good wife? Do dua. Allah will guarantee it. Last ten days of Ramadhan. Better start praying.
It's then up to the man if he accepts the woman's conditions. Humans are fickle complex creatures - blind faith isn't enough for me. One must protect ones self at as much as possible. I don't know why the women on this forum get irked by my views on protecting ones self in case of divorce.
As far as divorce goes - no one goes into marriage thinking of divorce, however as I have stated, numbers, particularly here in the UK, don't lie. My parents are married 40 years, but I observe so many men getting shafted in divorce courts (none of these men by the way thought they would get divorced when they got married). So what's wrong with a little bit of self preservation and protection before getting married?
A woman adds stipulations to her nikkah - it is her right. A man engages in self preservation - he is a misogynist and a pig? Go figure.
Re: The Money of the Female
I knew there was something else that I wanted to mention! Just because it is a nikah does not mean she can not have conditions attached.......of course you can agree to pass up on the union if you don't like the clauses but insisting on a nikah does not protect you.
And I'm not sure about the laws in UK but in Canada, a nikah is binding and seen as the equivalent of a registered marriage.
In the UK, this isn't the case (although that wannabe Torie champion of feminism Sayeda whats her name is lobbying hard behind the scene to change this).
What is wrong with a man looking to have his god given right i.e. not being shafted in divorce under the guise of man made western laws, that are in contradiction to Islamic principles similar to how women want their god given right to keep their income and have a man pay for the household?
Re: The Money of the Female
I’m not sure anyone here has made such a comparison…only you.
Oh look…is that a chip on your shoulder I see? 
There are no double standards here. Both have the right to exercise the privileges offered to them by God.
Having said that…do you really believe that the man-made western laws are so inequitable? Do you believe that if a woman stays at home and cares for the family while husband works then she should walk away from a marriage with empty hands? Do you not agree that in the time she spent rearing the children she could have been earning her own money? Just saying…
Re: The Money of the Female
Agree with bolded part.
@ Red part, wives should do the household chores for their husband & kids but then again, correct me is I am wrong, in Islam, there are some personal chores of a husband to which wife is not obligated to do. Just like Hazrat Muhammad SAW used to do his work all by himself, he used to cook his own food, clean his clothes, mend his shoes etc etc .
And doing in laws khidmat, that is not her duty at all either.
Treat your wives like wives not like maids. They are not there to look after your parents. Man up & fulfill your duties.
Re: The Money of the Female
I don’t know about chip on my shoulder and me making this comparison - but this is what I feel whenever I discuss this issue with women, especially Brit Paki women. They kind of want to shame me into backing down - well that’s what I feel anyway.
Double standards indeed. As far as the argument that the woman rears the children, leaves the workforce and in doing so forgoes income - again this a choice. Nowadays childcare is easily affordable - especially if two professional are working full time (I know, I know, no one can nurture a child like its mother right?). In North America, in most cases, everything is split 50/50 with child maintenance a given and rightly so. Not so here in the UK. For most guys who end up buying a house and paying for it year after year they will most likely lose it a divorce to the wife because she will be given primary custody of the kids and as such the familial home. So to answer your question, do I feel women should get jack squat, hell no. However, I don’t feel it’s fair that a woman can walk away from a marriage with up to 90% of the assets (my phuppo got 90% by the way even though her husband worked hard all his life to pay for said assets).
Let me throw it back at you - if you have equal rights surely you should have equal responsibilities? I love equality. I love the protection it affords my sister and any daughters I may have. However, I feel they should have equal responsibilities also. Luckily my sister shares my views on this subject and doesn’t have an entitlement complex when it comes to keeping her own income for herself under the guise of Islamic rights nor does she believe she will be charitable towards her husband to be by equally sharing in household expense. Why aren’t there more Brit Paki women with this mindset?
Re: The Money of the Female
The prophet would have walked away with child support and maintenance during iddat during divorce - so yeh, we should be more like the prophet.
I have two sil’s that live with my parents by choice because my parents have the space and because I think they are kind of tight (topic for another day). They do no cooking, no cleaning, no khidmat, no laundry - same as my sister.
Loved the “man up bit” - typical feminist shaming tactic.
Re: The Money of the Female
I don't know about chip on my shoulder and me making this comparison - but this is what I feel whenever I discuss this issue with women, especially Brit Paki women. They kind of want to shame me into backing down - well that's what I feel anyway.
Double standards indeed. As far as the argument that the woman rears the children, leaves the workforce and in doing so forgoes income - again this a choice. Nowadays childcare is easily affordable - especially if two professional are working full time (I know, I know, no one can nurture a child like its mother right?). In North America, in most cases, everything is split 50/50 with child maintenance a given and rightly so. Not so here in the UK. For most guys who end up buying a house and paying for it year after year they will most likely lose it a divorce to the wife because she will be given primary custody of the kids and as such the familial home. So to answer your question, do I feel women should get jack squat, hell no. However, I don't feel it's fair that a woman can walk away from a marriage with up to 90% of the assets (my phuppo got 90% by the way even though her husband worked hard all his life to pay for said assets).
Let me throw it back at you - if you have equal rights surely you should have equal responsibilities? I love equality. I love the protection it affords my sister and any daughters I may have. However, I feel they should have equal responsibilities also. Luckily my sister shares my views on this subject and doesn't have an entitlement complex when it comes to keeping her own income for herself under the guise of Islamic rights nor does she believe she will be charitable towards her husband to be by equally sharing in household expense. Why aren't there more Brit Paki women with this mindset?
I'm sorry that your phupho was greedy enough to strip the man that she once loved bare. I don't condone any woman doing that to any man. By the same token I don't think that any man should walk away leaving a woman with the lion-share of responsibility for the family they both created while he is scott free to enter into a new relationship and create new dependents. Perhaps the marital home should be sold and the proceeds divided 50/50. Would that be fair and equitable in our eyes?
I don't know how lucky it is for you that your sister shares your views since she will end up marrying some other man. I suppose it must give you a sense of hope that other women with similar views might exist.
Btw.....to imply that wanting/exercising your God-given right is having an "entitlement complex" is suggestive of where that imbalance that I mentioned comes from. If you consider a woman that keeps her earnings to herself as having an entitlement complex then you are in the wrong to begin with. The ruling mentioned in the video at the beginning of this thread is not a "guise of Islamic rights". It is an Islamic teaching and law. When you begin to twist such facts, you are creating the imbalance.
And whether or not your sister "believes" that she is being charitable to her husband if she shares in the financial responsibility, that is, in fact, what she is doing in the eyes of Allah.
Re: The Money of the Female
Very true, however the boys on my dads side of the family are well rounded fellows. Women on the hand, well, they're sirens. Gorgeous on the outside but rotten on the inside.
Not so well rounded if they couldn't contribute any of their 'values' into their daughters. Door door say parenting is not parenting at all.