i think its an opportunity for the indians to steal our talent.. and take it over the borders.... Nusrat Fateh... Adnan Sami.. etc etc
Let me get this straight - basically the fear is that the Indian way of doing things will pervade pakistan. Not the other way round. It is the Indians who will steal talent and not give anything in return. Pakistan will lose in the bargain.
Hmm, the inner fears of a smaller country being invaded by a bigger one. SAme sort of fear that was whipped up when coke and mcdonalds came to India. And now it is coke and mcdonald which has to look for ways to keep up with thums up and nirula.
Ravage, I suggest you not bring in the religion forum here. What do you expect, all of us should agree with you? Your problem is you would like to dictate to the majority of Pakistanis what kind of entertainment they should watch. And when they don't listen you vent your frustrations on the 'alien film industry' by calling it trash. What kind of reasoning is that, huh?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ravage: *
great. you'd also find that most of our morality and values are derivative or influenced by our religion. given that you agree that religion is a major difference, you agree that we would also have different norms of morality different value systems.
[/QUOTE]
And that'd be my cue to say "wake up and smell the doodh patti". if morality and values in pakistan were derivatives of islam, it wouldnt even have an entertainment industry, let alone one as "wild" as lollywood. nor would indian movies have been so popular among the masses.
Karina/queer:
Neither of you addressed my points at all. Why concentrate just on the religion forum? Name me a single forum where anything Indian is discussed. Unless its politics and theres a pakistani jiyala trying to demonstrate your inferior culture.
Heres the deal: If indian movies didnt exist, we wouldnt give a crap about you. you're sri lanka. you're afghanistan, as far as we're concerned. Yeah movies do exist, and so we watch em.
So much for cultural overlap.
And queer, do pay attention to my words. I said "derivative or influenced". So yeah, maybe most of our movies arent "islamic" but the bounds imposed on them are definitely those imposed on them because we're a nominally islamic country and need to demonstrate that everytime meera bibi goes too far.
understand?
Well said..I agree! :k:
Ravage hon, Quit while your ahead.
1. they will never address what your saying.
2. they make assumptions and go off on tangents
3. they are not here for dicussions rather to fight it out like its some kinda war.. dafa karo
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ravage: *
Heres the deal: If indian movies didnt exist, we wouldnt give a crap about you. you're sri lanka. you're afghanistan, as far as we're concerned. Yeah movies do exist, and so we watch em.
So much for cultural overlap.
[/quote]
right, and thats why the indo-pak bus and train services are always overbooked. just like the pak-srilanka flights. :D
if it werent for the similar culture, pak would be watching farsi movies, which are of a much higher standard than the trash bollywood churns out, and also islamically conformist. but the avg pakistani would rather watch indian trash, he can associate more with it.
[quote]
And queer, do pay attention to my words. I said "derivative or influenced". So yeah, maybe most of our movies arent "islamic" but the bounds imposed on them are definitely those imposed on them because we're a nominally islamic country and need to demonstrate that everytime meera bibi goes too far.
understand?
[/QUOTE]
derivative shmerivative. truth is, morals and values in pak are culturally imposed. and are close to those in india than its islamic neighbours.
^They watch indian movies because they understand urdu which has been imposed on us by hindustanis. The hollywood movies too are watched in Pakistan, though our culture isn't similar.
I agree to you regarding Iranian movies. I've watched some and found them formidable.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ~MuNiYa~: *
Ravage hon, Quit while your ahead.
1. they will never address what your saying.
2. they make assumptions and go off on tangents
3. they are not here for dicussions rather to fight it out like its some kinda war.. dafa karo
[/QUOTE]
baaji,
What? Can't u see ur side ppl acting the same way too? Like mister pakcanada. He resorts to name calling at the first chance he gets.
and baaji, as far as I know u are an ardent fan of bollywood( thanks to all the threads u open about bolly movies). If u love that stuff.. why wud u mind if lolly picks up some tips from it? And don't even tell me lolly movies don't have those vulgar booty shaking dances and overexposing dresses already.
And Indian movies are okay if those standards are considered. Only a few( and I mean..verrry few) are too much to handle for the pakistani kaum.
P.S: I am all for peace between these fine nations.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by queer: *
right, and thats why the indo-pak bus and train services are always overbooked. just like the pak-srilanka flights. :D
if it werent for the similar culture, pak would be watching farsi movies, which are of a much higher standard than the trash bollywood churns out, and also islamically conformist. but the avg pakistani would rather watch indian trash, he can associate more with it.
[/QUOTE]
As said before. a lot of us watch western movies too. you'd agree that that culture is certainly alien to yours or mine?
as for bus services, i assure you the traffic on the india/pak border isnt anomalously high as compared to the afghan/nwfp border or (to a lesser extent..but probably comparable) the baluchistan/iran border.
[QUOTE]
derivative shmerivative. truth is, morals and values in pak are culturally imposed. and are close to those in india than its islamic neighbours.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah. We needed you, an indian, to come and tell us the truth about our morals and values.
Spent a lot of time in Karachi have you?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ravage: *
As said before. a lot of us watch western movies too. you'd agree that that culture is certainly alien to yours or mine?
[/quote]
a lot? compare the % of pakistanis who watch western movies with the % who watch indian movies. enough said.
[quote]
as for bus services, i assure you the traffic on the india/pak border isnt anomalously high as compared to the afghan/nwfp border or (to a lesser extent..but probably comparable) the baluchistan/iran border.
[/quote]
true, the people of NWFP have more in common culturally with afghanistan than with the punjabis.
[quote]
Yeah. We needed you, an indian, to come and tell us the truth about our morals and values.
Spent a lot of time in Karachi have you?
[/QUOTE]
spent an awful lot of time with someone from clifton to know enough about "pakistani morals".
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by queer: *
a lot? compare the % of pakistanis who watch western movies with the % who watch indian movies. enough said.
[/QUOTE]
moot point. If even percentages reflect degree of alienness, then moreso in India, most of the population doesnt find western culture alien.
i dont know. maybe thats true. not for pakistan tho.
[QUOTE]
true, the people of NWFP have more in common culturally with afghanistan than with the punjabis.
[/QUOTE]
and afghani culture as a whole is a congruent entity as opposed to pashtun culture. get my point?
[QUOTE]
spent an awful lot of time with someone from clifton to know enough about "pakistani morals".
[/QUOTE]
ha. so you've never been in pakistan?
I've spend a lot of time with a person from chandigarh. based on that, I can safely say that all indians are meatheads. (im being caustic here..if you were dumb enough to take that at facevalue)
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ravage: *
moot point. If even percentages reflect degree of alienness, then moreso in India, most of the population doesnt find western culture alien.
[/quote]
clutching at straws, are we? when did you last visit india? most of the population doesnt find western culture alien? haha.
[quote]
i dont know. maybe thats true. not for pakistan tho.
[/quote]
right, pakistan has special rules, which preserve the denial logic.
[quote]
and afghani culture as a whole is a congruent entity as opposed to pashtun culture. get my point?
[/quote]
so? fact still remains - NWFP is culturally closer to Afghanistan than to the rest of Pakistan.
[quote]
ha. so you've never been in pakistan?
[/quote]
i dont think the vast majority of people dissing india on these fora have been to india either. didnt stop them now, did it?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by queer: *
clutching at straws, are we? when did you last visit india? most of the population doesnt find western culture alien? haha.
[/Quote]
hey im only using your logic here. scroll up and re read the discussion.
[QUOTE]
right, pakistan has special rules, which preserve the denial logic.
[/QUOTE]
wtf??
[QUOTE]
so? fact still remains - NWFP is culturally closer to Afghanistan than to the rest of Pakistan.
[/QUOTE]
you're missing my drift. Afghani culture is as alien to pakistani culture as indian culture is. go figure.
[QUOTE]
i dont think the vast majority of people dissing india on these fora have been to india either. didnt stop them now, did it?
[/QUOTE]
Hey dont give me that. I dont "diss" india on these fora, nor do I make a staple diet of unsubstantiated claims.
Now that we've established that the entirety of your "pakistani" experience is some guy from clifton, we can safely say that all your claims about Pakistan and its culture are UNSUBSTANTIATED bs.
thanks.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ravage: *
you're missing my drift. Afghani culture is as alien to pakistani culture as indian culture is. go figure.
[/quote]
and you are missing mine - you are denying that pashtoons of NWFP dont contribute to pakistani culture, just as you are denying pak culture is very similar to indian culture.
[quote]
Hey dont give me that. I dont "diss" india on these fora, nor do I make a staple diet of unsubstantiated claims.
[/quote]
really? pray explain how did you figure out indian culture, values and morals are different from pakistani ones?
Now that we've established that the entirety of your "indian" experience is some guy from chandigarh, we can safely say that all your claims about India and its culture are UNSUBSTANTIATED bs.
there is a huge difference in aghan and pathan.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by queer: *
and you are missing mine - you are denying that pashtoons of NWFP dont contribute to pakistani culture, just as you are denying pak culture is very similar to indian culture.
[/QUOTE]
America is the product of the assimilation of all sorts of european cultures. Yet german culture is entirely alien to american culture.
Pashtoons contribute the the pakistani culture, but the compound that emerges from all sorts of pakistani cultures, is something that is completely and fundamentally different from both indian and afghani cultures.
[QUOTE]
really? pray explain how did you figure out indian culture, values and morals are different from pakistani ones?
Now that we've established that the entirety of your "indian" experience is some guy from chandigarh, we can safely say that all your claims about India and its culture are UNSUBSTANTIATED bs.
[/QUOTE]
Im glad the chandigarh example made its point. Now that we've established that you know squat about Pakistan, more than half of my family is in India. I've been there more than once. Specifically around lucknow. Sultanpur.
I know that we are very, very, different culturally.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ravage: *
America is the product of the assimilation of all sorts of european cultures. Yet german culture is entirely alien to american culture.
Pashtoons contribute the the pakistani culture, but the compound that emerges from all sorts of pakistani cultures, is something that is completely and fundamentally different from both indian and afghani cultures.
[/quote]
the comparison is a wrong one. US has a more or less homogenous culture - language, dress, food. Pakistan doesnt. cultural identities dont mix too well. erase the Durand line, and you wouldnt know where Afghanistan ended and NWFP began. but travel from Punjab to NWFP, and you'll see your differences.
[quote]
Im glad the chandigarh example made its point. Now that we've established that you know squat about Pakistan, more than half of my family is in India. I've been there more than once. Specifically around lucknow. Sultanpur.
I know that we are very, very, different culturally.
[/QUOTE]
haha! more than half your family is of a very very different culture than you? and you say you arent in denial? :D
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by queer: *
the comparison is a wrong one. US has a more or less homogenous culture - language, dress, food. Pakistan doesnt. cultural identities dont mix too well. erase the Durand line, and you wouldnt know where Afghanistan ended and NWFP began. but travel from Punjab to NWFP, and you'll see your differences.
[/QUOTE]
fact is that pakistan is a multi-ethnic country with each culture synergising into what becomes pakistan. likewise with america. theres koreatowns and latino areas, but american culture is something very different from both korea and mexico.
[QUOTE]
haha! more than half your family is of a very very different culture than you? and you say you arent in denial? :D
[/QUOTE]
Whats funny about that? "Family" as in people my grandparents (and to some extent parents) used to know when the emigrated. Im about as attached to that culture as I am to..well..florence.
I've got two friends who are actually 2nd generation "arabs". I suppose thats odd to you too?
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ravage: *
fact is that pakistan is a multi-ethnic country with each culture synergising into what becomes pakistan. likewise with america. theres koreatowns and latino areas, but american culture is something very different from both korea and mexico.
[/quote]
NWFP isnt a "koreatown" or a "latino hood" to Pak. The variations in culture you find between any two states in the US is trivial in comparison with the variation you find between the provinces of Pak. And there is no denying NWFP shares more culturally and linguistically with Afghanistan than with the rest of Pak.
[quote]
Whats funny about that? "Family" as in people my grandparents (and to some extent parents) used to know when the emigrated. Im about as attached to that culture as I am to..well..florence.
I've got two friends who are actually 2nd generation "arabs". I suppose thats odd to you too?
[/QUOTE]
once again, you are backtracking to justify your denial game. if majority of your family is indian, and you are pakistani, how distinct can the cultures be. duh!
and what about 2nd generation arabs?