The issue of Fadak

[righteous]

Re: The issue of Fadak

@AllahkaBanda

then ask if you don’t understand before jumping to conclusions.

go read post#21](http://www.paklinks.com/gs/6456306-post21.html) to find out who you were talking to and what point you were addressing.

i made my point exactly the way i wanted to. you need to open your mind and heart to truth to understand.

incorrect; a sahabi is someone who accepted Islam, met/saw the Prophet (sal-allahu 'alayhi wa salam) and died as a believer.

This would not stand as a valid definition since you cannot establish whether someone die as a believer.

sahabi means a friend/companion. If you were a friend for someone, list 10 reasons that will make you run away in the other direction from their funeral.

stop beating around the bush. Why would Allah Ta’ala be pleased with munafiqoon or those who would become munafiq later? So, were there any munafiq among those who migrated from Medina to Makka or those who participated in battle of badr? Yes or No?

I think i m quite unequivocal about my point. I don’t know about badr or those who migrated but surely have a good idea about those who ran aay at Uhud.

why? This is the problem in your mind set, the obvious bias against the sahaba, which has led to hate for them. The obvious is that we pick those who are right in the sight of the Qur’an and Sunnah. We don’t pick because he is Ali or he is Abou Bakr (may Allah be pleased with them). We pick who is right according to the Qur’an and Sunnah. Now, don’t quote me ayaat by distorting their meaning to prove your flawed reasoning. If you want to disccus this further, open a new thread.

You know something, you don’t have a clue about what you are talking about.
You are supposed to draw conclusions based on facts not assumptions.

I don’t have bias against the sahaba and I do not hate them, but I refuse to take your argument for elevating them to the point of a deity or at least infallibility.

Please quote me where I have distorted the meaning of any ayaah. Whatever I have used ayahs in translation, they are 100% accurate and mostly taken from Ahle-sunnah translations.

This is a very big accusation that you have hurled on me regarding distorting Quran. May Allah have mercy on you and show you the right path.

[AllahkaBanda]

Re: The issue of Fadak

^:lahol:

I can respond your complete nonsensical response but it would do no justice to the topic in our hand.

[diwana]

Re: The issue of Fadak

Wasn't this event centuries ago?

If Allah has resolved this issue by now and the chapter is closed there (hope we all believe it) then why beat it today and get all emotional, excited or try to prove each other wrong?

Are we better than Allah to solve this controversial issue?

[BOY-NICE]

Re: The issue of Fadak

@AllahkaBanda

^:lahol:

I can respond your complete nonsensical response but it would do no justice to the topic in our hand.

Before that, its me who is waiting for your reply about my post which you had easily lebelled as “typical emotional mambo jambo” where as it contained the evidences which you had yourself saught from Quran and Hadith. But anyhow, I am still waiting.

[Texan_Dude]

Re: The issue of Fadak

@psyah

^ Salam bro Texan_Dude

Thanks for the response. I have read all that you have written, but I still don’t know why you claim Fatima-tu-Zahra (AS) can get angry over a worldly possession. Surely her piety is higher than that?

Brother, I think you missed the whole point of the post above. There is a lot more to the issue of fadak than just a land. It unveils the faces of alot of personalities. Brother think about it Prophet P.B.U.H. on Allah SWT will gave a hadith on making Bibi Fatima Zehra SA angry makes Prophet P.B.U.H. angry and the other narration I quoted about Bibi Fatima Zehra SA getting angry on Hazrat Abu Bakar was also in Sahih Bukhrari and narrated by no other than the daughter of Hazrat Abu Bakar. Doesn’t the following serve as an eye opener for you:

• Quran is asking to love Ahley bait
• Prophet P.B.U.H. specifally mentioned whoever makes Bibi Fatima angry makes him angry Both were narrated in Sahih Bukhari…

Aren’t those indicatiosn for you who was righteous and who wasn’t?

When I quoted about Bibi Fatimia Zehra SA being angry on Abu Bakr I did not apply that she was angry soley because of the fadak incident… I can go on with a number of things but they are a whole new thing within it self. Just to quote a few… look into the following:

1. Who did Prophet P.B.U.H. elected Mawla in his lifetime at the incident of Ghadir and who became khaleefa after his death… Having said that.. How did khaleefa overruled the ayats she presented over some hadith… Would you think the lady who was so pure that Prophet PBUH took her as the only lady during Mubahila she want present wrong ayats for a land nauzubillah… and yet Prophet P.B.U.H knowning her daughter nauzubillah can mis use quran and get angry for wrong reasons wiould say people making her angry would make Rasool e Khuda P.B.U.H. angry

2. Where were some of the companions when the funeral of Prophet P.B.U.H took place… what was more important the funeral services of Prophet P.B.U.H. or the issue of Khilafat…

3. How did Bibi Fatima Zehra S.A lost her son Hazrat Mohsin A.S…?

If you want to read on these incidents go to the following link for sunni refernces and details.

A Shi’ite Encyclopedia

If you want to listen something non shia, you can listen the following video

[

Brother I would nauzubillah refrain from making such a comment. Are you nazubillah implying your Aunty is more merciful that Bibi Fatima Zehra S.A. She is the daughter of Prophet P.B.U.H, I would rather use her actons to learn a lesson the lower the honor of a lady that Prophet P.B.U.H himself respected so much…](“http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...070561&q=ishaq”)

[ramesha]

Re: The issue of Fadak

what i find amazing is how some people make every effort to either belittle or ignore the verses from the holy Quran that are in praise of the Ahlul Bayt (as). Even the true companions of Rasool Allah (saww) like Ammar Yasir, Abu Ayub Ansari, Salman Farsi, Abuzar Ghaffari etc considered themselves slave to the household of the family of the Rasool Allah. It was simply because they are the purified ones. Allah (swt) granted them these virtues because of their Iman and aamaal, and their status is absolutely unparalleled to anybody after the Prophet (pbuh) himself. Hence in Hadith Thaqalain we are told to only take them as role models and follow nobody but the Quran and the Ahlul Bayt (as).

[samara_khan]

Re: The issue of Fadak

I feel it is better for believing muslims to avoid such controversial topics related to Fadak or Battle of Jamal. Both Fatima(r.a.) and Abu Bakr (r.a.) were given glad tidings during their life time. We all know Fatima(r.a.) is the beloved and dearest daughter of Prophet Mohammed(saws) and her position in heaven. As for Abu Bakr(r.a.) Prophet Mohammed(saws) said , "If I were to take a Khalil, I would have taken Abu Bakr, but he is my brother and my companion (in Islam)." We very well know that the Abu Bark(r.a.) comes first in order of best people after Allah's Apostle.

What ever happened after life of Prophet Mohammed (saws) is the history for muslims and Allah alone knows about it.

Allah will not hold us accountable for deeds of these people nor will ask us about them on the day of judgement, instead we will be asked about our own deeds.

Surah Baqarah verse 134: "They were people who passed away. They shall receive the reward of what they earned, and you shall have the reward of what you will earn. And you will not be questioned as to what they did"

[Texan_Dude]

Re: The issue of Fadak

I feel it is better for believing muslims to avoid such controversial topics related to Fadak or Battle of Jamal. Both Fatima(r.a.) and Abu Bakr (r.a.) were given glad tidings during their life time. We all know Fatima(r.a.) is the beloved and dearest daughter of Prophet Mohammed(saws) and her position in heaven. As for Abu Bakr(r.a.) Prophet Mohammed(saws) said , "If I were to take a Khalil, I would have taken Abu Bakr, but he is my brother and my companion (in Islam)." We very well know that the Abu Bark(r.a.) comes first in order of best people after Allah's Apostle.

Samara your post here serves as a perfect example for what I have been pointing out throughout the thread. I showed you based on narrations from Sahih Bukhari of how Hazrat Abu Bakr angered our Prophet P.B.U.H. and now you came up with some hadiths which contradicts it.... this is exactly what I have been pointing out. Quran and Ahley bait or Quran and sunnah and who is out trustful source of sunnah..... if Prophet P.B.U.H wanted us to follow sunnah wouldn't he guide us on where to get the correct sunnah or would he leave it to us to pick and choose hadith and split ourselves into different sects based on it....... I have pointed out the significance of Ahley bait based on Quran and stuff and you choose to ignore those facts based on some hadith in books eventhough there are some other hadith's that contradicts them but you choose to ignore them....

Let me ask you something. Have you ever wondered why did Prophet P.B.U.H said of all only one sect is going to heaven... eventhough we all pray, fast and do all the necessities? and are there any lines of guidance in the light of quran and sunnah?

[Nussairee]

Re: The issue of Fadak

I feel it is better for believing muslims to avoid such controversial topics related to Fadak or Battle of Jamal. Both Fatima(r.a.) and Abu Bakr (r.a.) were given glad tidings during their life time. We all know Fatima(r.a.) is the beloved and dearest daughter of Prophet Mohammed(saws) and her position in heaven. As for Abu Bakr(r.a.) Prophet Mohammed(saws) said , "If I were to take a Khalil, I would have taken Abu Bakr, but he is my brother and my companion (in Islam)." We very well know that the Abu Bark(r.a.) comes first in order of best people after Allah's Apostle.

What ever happened after life of Prophet Mohammed (saws) is the history for muslims and Allah alone knows about it.

Allah will not hold us accountable for deeds of these people nor will ask us about them on the day of judgement, instead we will be asked about our own deeds.

Surah Baqarah verse 134: "They were people who passed away. They shall receive the reward of what they earned, and you shall have the reward of what you will earn. And you will not be questioned as to what they did"

True that Allah alone will judge us all but my question to u is, wud Allah and his Messenger put such ppl as guardians/leaders of this great faith that 124,000 Prophets sacrificed their lives for?

[chacha_Ghalib]

Re: The issue of Fadak

@righteous

@Crescent 33:33 did not include Aisha, since she is one of the narrator of the hadith herself and talks about the Ali, Fatimah, Hassan and Hussain along with the prophet (SAW).

It is in sahihs.

some excellent points by crescent and psyah.

I don't understand why Hazrat Ali r.a is considered part of the family but Hazrat Usman r.a is not? If the answer is that Hazrat Ali was the Prophet's (saw) cousin then he had other cousins as well. I don't mean to lower the status of Hazrat Ali (ra) who was a great companion of the Holy Prophet(saw). We believe that, those about whom Allah Himself says that they were happy with Allah and Allah was happy with them were all great people.

Psyah has a very good point that Hazrat Fatima (ra) who was raised by the Prophet (saw) and taught by His example to not care for this world but for the next one can't be expected to be upset about a mere piece of land.

[Texan_Dude]

Re: The issue of Fadak

s

Psyah has a very good point that Hazrat Fatima (ra) who was raised by the Prophet (saw) and taught by His example to not care for this world but for the next one can't be expected to be upset about a mere piece of land.

Go and read my earlier post. There are alot of lessons to learn from it and secondly, Where is it implied this was the solely reason that she was angry about. the narration I quote from Sahih Bukhari did not say that this was the only reason she was angry for.........

[psyah]

Re: The issue of Fadak

Peace bro Texan_Dude

I still don't think you are answering my question. What can make a person so angry and upset? Please show me references that prove Fatima-tu-Zahra (AS) was indeed upset and angry at hz. Abu Bakr (RA), look I said this:

[quote]

In my original post I am not concerned about what other people may have done to make her angry or upset. I am concerned with the idea that she can actually become angry enough with someone not to speak with them for the rest of her life knowing she would soon die, over something that even my auntie can forgive someone over if she knew she was dying. Really! That is all I am asking. Why do call Fatima-tu-Zahra (AS) infallible yet still insist she could not forgive such a simple thing?
[/quote]

and then you said this:

[quote]
Brother I would nauzubillah refrain from making such a comment. Are you nazubillah implying your Aunty is more merciful that Bibi Fatima Zehra S.A. She is the daughter of Prophet P.B.U.H, I would rather use her actons to learn a lesson the lower the honor of a lady that Prophet P.B.U.H himself respected so much....
[/quote]

SubhanAllah it is you who say Fatima-tu-Zahra (AS) is infallible yet you also say she can not forgive someone on a matter that is fairly easy to forgive. Surely I should be the one saying nauzubillah. I cannot believe my dear mother Fatima-tu-Zahra (AS) will remain grudging like you want me to believe. Not only is this far away from infallibility but it is also far away from pious. If you respect her so much then you should say good things about her and not focus on such things, which I believe are exaggerations taken to such a limit to defame Abu Bakr As-Siddiq without realising that you end up tipping the scales in the opposite direction for the very person you claim to be upholding.

Finally please provide me the full context to the hadith about 'whoever makes Fatimah upset makes me upset' I want to know when it was said, to whom it was said, why it was said in the first instance. Then we can analyse the first instance to see what happened and then we can if you wish apply on the other incident of the Fadak, but please provide me with full data.

[Texan_Dude]

Re: The issue of Fadak

@psyah

Peace bro Texan_Dude

I still don't think you are answering my question. What can make a person so angry and upset? Please show me references that prove Fatima-tu-Zahra (AS) was indeed upset and angry at hz. Abu Bakr (RA), look I said this:

All your questions have been answered but you seem to ignore it and keep going in circles... probably becaue you are having a hard time digesting the truth and defending your blieve. Let me post the prove you asked for, which I already posted already:

al-Bukhari narrated on the authority of Aisha that:

... Fatimah became angry with Abu Bakr and kept away from him, and did
not talk to him till she died. She remained alive for six months after
the death of the Prophet. When she died, her husband 'Ali, buried her
at night without informing Abu Bakr and he said the funeral prayer by
himself.

Sunni references:
- Sahih al-Bukhari, Chapter of "The battle of Khaibar", Arabic-English,
v5, tradition #546, pp 381-383, also v4, Tradition #325

@psyah

SubhanAllah it is you who say Fatima-tu-Zahra (AS) is infallible yet you also say she can not forgive someone on a matter that is fairly easy to forgive. Surely I should be the one saying nauzubillah. I cannot believe my dear mother Fatima-tu-Zahra (AS) will remain grudging like you want me to believe. Not only is this far away from infallibility but it is also far away from pious. If you respect her so much then you should say good things about her and not focus on such things, which I believe are exaggerations taken to such a limit to defame Abu Bakr As-Siddiq without realising that you end up tipping the scales in the opposite direction for the very person you claim to be upholding.

Before you go on the game of circles.. I would highly recommend you read my posts earlier before you go on insulting the lady that Prophet P.B.U.H respected so much.. May Prophet P.B.U.H reward you for the accusations you made on his pious daughter.. for who Prophet himself said making her makes him angry ... Ameen

Please before you open your mouth next please bother to read my posts earlier... I pointed out the other issues Bibi would probably angry besides the land of fadak.. and I have also pointed out the valuable to learn from this incident.which is far more than a worldy things. However, if you can't defend and want to play the game of ignorance feel free to do so.. May Allah and his Prophet P.B.U.H reward you for this...

BTW the fact that I quoted about Bibi Fatima Zehra SA being angry comes from your own authentic book and was narrated by no one other than Bibi Ayesha... so whatever lame accusations you want to make it on Bukhari and Bibi Ayesha.

[Das_Reich]

Re: The issue of Fadak

the issue of fadak in later debates became intertwined with the alleged usurping of caliphate from Prophet's family in the eyes of later shias ....thats why its importance has become so central to present day shia arguments on leadership.

[Das_Reich]

Re: The issue of Fadak

Why did Hazrat Imam Ali, the greatest mind and the warrior of Islam, chose life of isolation for almost 25 years after the death of the Holy Prophet of Islam?

he did not by any mean lead a life of isolation he "retired" from duties of active conquests but he was by no means the only senior companion to do so (amongst other people Talha is another one)...
apart from that he was very active esp during the administration of sayyidna umar and even during the turbulant times of uthman's caliphate Sayyidna Ali was the by default the leader of muhajireen in all major disputes ...why wud they choose him as a leader if he led a life of isolation.

[Das_Reich]

Re: The issue of Fadak

^i know the break in logic that is why i divided the question into two different parts. Answer to 2nd one depends on the first. btw Das, in your opinion does ALL the grades of sahaba includes the Munafiqeen too?

no easy answer to that all we can say is that Allah knows best ...

some are clearly well known to be hypocrites like walid b utba and abdullah b abisarah
others only Prophet or Hudhayfa knew ...some others even the Prophet did not know but were around him.
Yet at the same time the muhajireen and ansar have been given a very high status in Quran and it wud be extremely harsh to label the vast majority of them without justification as hypocrites ( as 12ers have done) or even doubt their faith without a reasonable excuse.

[Das_Reich]

Re: The issue of Fadak

[QUOTE]
I think i m quite unequivocal about my point. I don't know about badr or those who migrated but surely have a good idea about those who ran aay at Uhud.

[/QUOTE]

how can u say that ? its upto God to forgive anyone simply running away from battlefield is not a justification enuf to call them hypocrites

nor does ur logic add up e.g those who stayed with Prophet in Uhad were different from those who rallied around the prophet in Hunayn ( when others didnt) so which ones wud u call munafiq ...also even some of the good sahabi according to 12ers are not the ones who we find around Prophet in hunayn or uhad so how do u justify that ?

[Surdar_Asif]

Re: The issue of Fadak

@Das_Reich

he did not by any mean lead a life of isolation he "retired" from duties of active conquests but he was by no means the only senior companion to do so (amongst other people Talha is another one)... apart from that he was very active esp during the administration of sayyidna umar and even during the turbulant times of uthman's caliphate Sayyidna Ali was the by default the leader of muhajireen in all major disputes ...why wud they choose him as a leader if he led a life of isolation.

I am not sure if Hazrat Imam Ali could be compared to even the companions of the stature of Talha or Zubayr.
Umar b Khattab asked Hazrat for help in many IMPORTANT matters and always found him forthcoming.
Uthman b Affan found help from Hazrat Ali when nobody would help him in Madina. Infact according to Tarikh Tabari, Hazrat Ali even sent Hazrat Imam Hasan and Hazrat Imam Hussain among other Banu Hashim to the defence of Uthman during the time of the final seige.

So indeed he was active in solving problems that people faced in his personal capacity for whatelse is the function of an Imam?
But without a doubt he had isolated himself from the "governmental" activities if thats the right word to use. For example, after the murder of Uthman when the companions sat to discuss the appointment of the next caliph, and the discussions continued for over a month- one main argument that was put forward against Hazrat Ali was that; he prefers to stay low and have little interest in the governmental matters (something very contrasting to the role he played in the early period of the Islam with the Prophet Mohammad Mustafa (pbuh&f).

[Das_Reich]

Re: The issue of Fadak

[QUOTE]
I am not sure if Hazrat Imam Ali could be compared to even the companions of the stature of Talha or Zubayr.
[/QUOTE]

thats a whole another debate irrelevent to this discussion
btw plz dont bring up zubair radiallahanu whenever talha is mentioned u guys think they were like hecke and jeckel thats not the case they both had very different backgrounds and interests

[QUOTE]

Umar b Khattab asked Hazrat for help in many trivial matters and always found him forthcoming.

[/QUOTE]

not so trivial some of them were very important matters

[QUOTE]
Uthman b Affan found help from Hazrat Ali when nobody would help him in Madina.
[/QUOTE]
I
uthman had his own group of supporters in medina mostly quraishi but they could not stand upto the revolutionaries from Kufa and Egypt thats why uthmanid propoganda always lament uthman as the lonely martyr to hide the paucity of support amongst the medinians

[QUOTE]
nfact according to Tarikh Tabari, Hazrat Ali even sent Hazrat Imam Hasan and Hazrat Imam Hussain among other Banu Hashim to the defence of Uthman during the time of the final seige.
[/QUOTE]

neither hasan nor hussain ever bore arms to defend uthman at best they offered moral support

[Surdar_Asif]

Re: The issue of Fadak

@Das_Reich

thats a whole another debate irrelevent to this discussion btw plz dont bring up zubair radiallahanu whenever talha is mentioned u guys think they were like hecke and jeckel thats not the case they both had very different backgrounds and interests

not so trivial some of them were very important matters I uthman had his own group of supporters in medina mostly quraishi but they could not stand upto the revolutionaries from Kufa and Egypt thats why uthmanid propoganda always lament uthman as the lonely martyr to hide the paucity of support amongst the medinians

neither hasan nor hussain ever bore arms to defend uthman at best they offered moral support

I do not know much about the early life of Talha and Zubayr to be honest but they both had very different endings from eachother. One realised the truth and the other did not.
Trivial is a word i used by mistake. I actually wanted to say IMPORTANT ISSUES.
And Tabari wrote about Hazrat Imam Hasan and Hazrat Imam Hussain along with Mohd b Hanafiya, Abbas Ibn Ali, Mohd bin Abi Bakr and other Bani Hashim coming to the aid of Uthman on the orders of Hazrat Imam Ali.