The issue of Fadak

[AllahkaBanda]

Can some shia brothers shed some light on the issue of fadak and how do they view it? Why is this matter considered a religious issue? I’ve been asked by righteous to talk about fiqhi issues; so, maybe it is about time he saves me from hell by answering my questoins and thus convincing me into shiasm. No copy pastes please, I would like a simple discussion.

[ALIJAN1001]

Re: The issue of Fadak

@AllahkaBanda

Can some shia brothers shed some light on the issue of fadak and how do they view it? Why is this matter considered a religious issue? I’ve been asked by righteous to talk about fiqhi issues; so, maybe it is about time he saves me from hell by answering my questoins and thus convincing me into shiasm. No copy pastes please, I would like a simple discussion.

there are many wives of prophet pbuh alive and only one doughter was alived at that time 3 doughter of prophet pbuh passed away before visal of prophet pbuh, did any from prophet pbuh wives claim their share from fadak.

since they have right to demand as per shia methology.

[BOY-NICE]

Re: The issue of Fadak

ALIJAN1001, the thread opener is asking Shias to talk about the issue, you are unnecessarily intervening and giving replies on behalf of the Shias, ‘therefore’ totally wrong. This is the thing that has caused so much drift between the two schools of thought, ‘A’ trying to learn the sect of ‘B’ from the books written by the scholars of A instead of directly picking up B’s books and get first hand information.

AllahkaBanda, coming to your question, if we were to summarize the whole issue of Fadak, then it would be in this manner:

• There was an extremely huge land called Fadak which Prophet [s] got as a ‘fay’ property
• He gifted it to her daughter
• Hence the land was in her possession
• When Prophget died, one day she sent someone to that land and saw government officials standing there and not allowing the agent, any access
• She went to the ruler of the time to demand her right that was being ‘snatched’
• She was asked to bring witnesses if the land was indeed gifted to her [while being the mistress of the women of paradise, her words were itself a gurantee of being true].
• She hence brought some witnesses but they were not accepted.
• AS an alternative, she asked that if ruler thought that the land was not gifted to her, even then she has the right in that land by way of inheritance [the witnessess included some members of Ahlulbayt as well, and their words were not to be doubted as they were the ones for whom the verse of purification was revealed, who were chosen by Allah to curse the lairs].
• On that, she was told by the ruler that Prophet [s] had informed him that all of his property was going to charity as ‘prophets do not leave inheritance’.
• She quoted unequivocal verses of Holy Quran according to which prophets do leave inheritance.
• But in vain, ruler was adamant not give the daughter of Prophet the due right.
• People used to come to the ruler to claim that they had taken such and such thing from Prophet [s], and when felt like it, the ruler never asked people to bring witness yet their right was given to them, proving the bias on his part that he had towards Ahlulbayt [as].
• The daughter of Holy Prophet, the chief of the women of paradise hence did not talk to the ruler again and died in the very angery state with him.
• To those who love and adhere the path of Ahlulbayt [as], they likewise maintain the same stance against the ruler as the blessed daughter of Prophet had until her last breath.

Cant make a better summary than this. Hope this helps you out to understand the issue.

[ALIJAN1001]

Re: The issue of Fadak

@ALIJAN1001

there are many wives of prophet pbuh alive and only one doughter was alived at that time 3 doughter of prophet pbuh passed away before visal of prophet pbuh, did any from prophet pbuh wives claim their share from fadak.

since they have right to demand as per shia methology.

keep quote boy nice i am not answering from shia side, i am adding my question.

[Elegant_Thinker]

Re: The issue of Fadak

And it is worth mentioning that Hazarat Usman gave Fadak to one of his close releative Marwan** ibn al-Hakam** (623 - 685). Who was Marwan? You may search out (Hakam was a first cousin of Uthman ibn Affan) although it is recorded in history that Prophet Muhammad (PBUH&HP) cursed and sent both him and his father, Al-Hakam ibn Abi al-'As to exile, saying they should never return. During the reign of Hazrat Uthman, he brought Marwan and his father back.

[BOY-NICE]

Re: The issue of Fadak

@ALIJAN1001

keep quote boy nice i am not answering from shia side, i am adding my question.

Nop, you were clearly commenting on Shia school rather than adding anything.

[Crescent]

Re: The issue of Fadak

@BOY-NICE

ALIJAN1001, the thread opener is asking Shias to talk about the issue, you are unnecessarily intervening and giving replies on behalf of the Shias, ‘therefore’ totally wrong. This is the thing that has caused so much drift between the two schools of thought, ‘A’ trying to learn the sect of ‘B’ from the books written by the scholars of A instead of directly picking up B’s books and get first hand information.

AllahkaBanda, coming to your question, if we were to summarize the whole issue of Fadak, then it would be in this manner:

• There was an extremely huge land called Fadak which Prophet [s] got as a ‘fay’ property
• He gifted it to her daughter
• Hence the land was in her possession
• When Prophget died, one day she sent someone to that land and saw government officials standing there and not allowing the agent, any access
• She went to the ruler of the time to demand her right that was being ‘snatched’
• She was asked to bring witnesses if the land was indeed gifted to her [while being the mistress of the women of paradise, her words were itself a gurantee of being true].
• She hence brought some witnesses but they were not accepted.
• AS an alternative, she asked that if ruler thought that the land was not gifted to her, even then she has the right in that land by way of inheritance [the witnessess included some members of Ahlulbayt as well, and their words were not to be doubted as they were the ones for whom the verse of purification was revealed, who were chosen by Allah to curse the lairs].
• On that, she was told by the ruler that Prophet [s] had informed him that all of his property was going to charity as ‘prophets do not leave inheritance’.
• She quoted unequivocal verses of Holy Quran according to which prophets do leave inheritance.
• But in vain, ruler was adamant not give the daughter of Prophet the due right.
• People used to come to the ruler to claim that they had taken such and such thing from Prophet [s], and when felt like it, the ruler never asked people to bring witness yet their right was given to them, proving the bias on his part that he had towards Ahlulbayt [as].
• The daughter of Holy Prophet, the chief of the women of paradise hence did not talk to the ruler again and died in the very angery state with him.
• To those who love and adhere the path of Ahlulbayt [as], they likewise maintain the same stance against the ruler as the blessed daughter of Prophet had until her last breath.

Cant make a better summary than this. Hope this helps you out to understand the issue.

Totally different historiography than what the Sunnis believe. Wow! No wonder the shias don’t like sunnis.

Fatima r.a. wanted the property, Abu Bakr r.a. could not give it to her due to him hearing from the Prophet pbuh that Prophets don’t leave inheritance, and since he could not give it to her, out of his love for Ahle-bayt, he gave the family of the Prophet pbuh all the harvest generated from Fadak, excluding Aisha r.a. because he didn’t want his own daughter (although a member of the Prophet’s pbuh family) to benefit from something that belonged to the Prophet pbuh.

As witnessed and attested to by many narrators of ahadith and historiography. Why would Prophet pbuh leave that many people to curse others?

[hareem01]

Re: The issue of Fadak

^ I like your signatures. :)

[BOY-NICE]

Re: The issue of Fadak

@Crescent

Totally different historiography than what the Sunnis believe. Wow! No wonder the shias don’t like sunnis.

Fatima r.a. wanted the property, Abu Bakr r.a. could not give it to her due to him hearing from the Prophet pbuh that Prophets don’t leave inheritance, and since he could not give it to her, out of his love for Ahle-bayt, he gave the family of the Prophet pbuh all the harvest generated from Fadak, excluding Aisha r.a. because he didn’t want his own daughter (although a member of the Prophet’s pbuh family) to benefit from something that belonged to the Prophet pbuh.

As witnessed and attested to by many narrators of ahadith and historiography. Why would Prophet pbuh leave that many people to curse others?

Dear Crescent, the thread was directed to Shias to have the Shia input in the matter. But since you have taken the thread a way forward, towards a debate, thus I am also entitled to posy my comments on yours.

First of all, I can see that you have not refuted to any of the thing I had written in the list, thus those points are still there, on the contrary you have brought an entirely different views.

Dear, the thing is that Abu Bakar should have listened to Fatima Zahra [sa], doubting her was equal to doubt the Quran because it was Quran that testified her purification [33:33], and her status of being truthful when she was chosen by Allajh to curse the lairs [3:61], of course Allah will not chose to curse the lairs who may have the tendency to tell a lie.

The inheritance of the family matter of Prophet [s], and the family ‘rejected’ the notion that the head of their family i.e. the Prophet ever stated that His [s] progeny will be deprived of the right if inheritance, a right well attested in Quran. Allow me to take liberty to cite an example on you, just imagine, if your father leaves property but did not tell you and other family members his intention or his plan regarding the property after him, yet he tells this to an outsider.

And your notion that ‘out of his love for Ahlulbayt’ he gave something to them…then my dear friend, the truth is that besides Fadak, Fatmia Zahra [as] was even deprived of the money of Khums by Abu Bakar. Moreover, Abu Bakar broke into the house of Fatima Zahra [sa] to see if there was any valuables left by Prophet [s] while he never did same thing to the wives of the prophets. The wives of prophet kept living the appartments of prophet, yet Abu Bakar never asked them to handover the property of prophet to the government, etc etc so this all sum up, that a bias was shown on his part towards Ahlulbayt [as] and that was the reason the chief of the women of paradise left this world angry with him.

PS: The regret of Abu Bakar on his deathbed about his stance towards Fatima Zahra [sa] is suffice to tell the actual story.

[Crescent]

Re: The issue of Fadak

@BOY-NICE

Dear Crescent, the thread was directed to Shias to have the Shia input in the matter. But since you have taken the thread a way forward, towards a debate, thus I am also entitled to posy my comments on yours.

First of all, I can see that you have not refuted to any of the thing I had written in the list, thus those points are still there, on the contrary you have brought an entirely different views.

Dear, the thing is that Abu Bakar should have listened to Fatima Zahra [sa], doubting her was equal to doubt the Quran because it was Quran that testified her purification [33:33], and her status of being truthful when she was chosen by Allajh to curse the lairs [3:61], of course Allah will not chose to curse the lairs who may have the tendency to tell a lie.

The inheritance of the family matter of Prophet [s], and the family ‘rejected’ the notion that the head of their family i.e. the Prophet ever stated that His [s] progeny will be deprived of the right if inheritance, a right well attested in Quran. Allow me to take liberty to cite an example on you, just imagine, if your father leaves property but did not tell you and other family members his intention or his plan regarding the property after him, yet he tells this to an outsider.

And your notion that ‘out of his love for Ahlulbayt’ he gave something to them…then my dear friend, the truth is that besides Fadak, Fatmia Zahra [as] was even deprived of the money of Khums by Abu Bakar. Moreover, Abu Bakar broke into the house of Fatima Zahra [sa] to see if there was any valuables left by Prophet [s] while he never did same thing to the wives of the prophets. The wives of prophet kept living the appartments of prophet, yet Abu Bakar never asked them to handover the property of prophet to the government, etc etc so this all sum up, that a bias was shown on his part towards Ahlulbayt [as] and that was the reason the chief of the women of paradise left this world angry with him.

PS: The regret of Abu Bakar on his deathbed about his stance towards Fatima Zahra [sa] is suffice to tell the actual story.

I did not answer FOR the shias, I presented the Sunni view on this matter which is much more plausible.

Let me get to a few points in this post. One thing I find frustrating from Shias is their references to the Quranic Ayahs.

You said she was made pure, by referencing verse 33 from Surah Ahzab:

[Ahzab 33:33] And remain in your houses and do not unveil yourselves like the unveiling prevalent in the times of ignorance, and keep the prayer established, and pay the charity, and obey Allah and His Noble Messenger; Allah only wills to remove all impurity from you, O the People of the Household, and by cleansing you make you utterly pure. (*The Holy Prophet’s household.)

This includes Aisha r.a. , who the Shias hate so much.

As for the verse from Surah Al Imran, Here it is in context so you may better understand it:

[A/I`mran 3:55] Remember when Allah said, “O Eisa! I will keep you alive till your full age, and raise you towards Me, and cleanse you of the disbelievers and give your followers dominance over the disbelievers until the Day of Resurrection; then you will all return to Me, so I shall judge between you concerning the matter in which you dispute.”

[A/I`mran 3:56] “So I shall mete a severe punishment to those who disbelieve, in this world and in the Hereafter; and they will not have any supporters.”

[A/I`mran 3:57] “And for those who believed and did good deeds, Allah will give them their full reward; and Allah does not like the unjust.”

[A/I`mran 3:58] These are some verses that We recite to you, and advice full of wisdom.

[A/I`mran 3:59] The example of Eisa with Allah is like that of Adam; He created him (Adam) from clay and then said to him, “Be” - and it thereupon happens!

[A/I`mran 3:60] O listener! (followers of this Prophet) This is the Truth from your Lord, so never be of those who doubt.

[A/I`mran 3:61] Therefore say to those who dispute with you (O dear Prophet Mohammed - peace and blessings be upon him) concerning Eisa after the knowledge has come to you, “Come! Let us summon our sons and your sons, and our women and your women, and ourselves and yourselves - then pray humbly, thereby casting the curse of Allah upon the liars!” (The Christians did not accept this challenge.)

Please tell me where Fatima r.a. is being told to curse Abu Bakr r.a. in this verse?

A command from the Prophet pbuh is a command from the Quran. We fully accept his message, and we abide by what he says and acts upon. Even Fatima r.a. did not take that issue to this level, which some people from this ummah have brought it to.

It is sad to see fabrication enter hearts of so many people in such a manner. Its utterly disappointing to witness threads such as these cursing some of the Greatest men to accompany the Prophet pbuh.

Doesn’t even once common sense strike us that we realize, these were men who were the closest to the Prophet pbuh? Men he trusted, men he praised, the Quran praised?

Not only is this an insult to them, but contrary to the beliefs of the Prophet pbuh and his household.

I am sorry to get so upset, but this is reality. His household, and his companions mean a lot to sunnis, and we seriously frown upon anyone cursing either.

YES, Aisha r.a. was his household, as was Abu Bakr’s r.a. progeny to Ali r.a.
YES, his closest companions, Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman, Ali, Ibn Masud, etc r.a. were all some of the greatest men to walk this earth.

Astagfrullah, May Allah have mercy on us.

Wallaikum Assalam

[Elegant_Thinker]

Re: The issue of Fadak

Brother Cresent you have given a very powerful statement " he gave the family of the Prophet pbuh all the harvest generated from Fadak, excluding Aisha r.a. because he didn't want his own daughter (although a member of the Prophet's pbuh family) to benefit from SOMETHING THAT BELONGED TO THE PROPHET PBUH. "

Please elaborate these points:
How is it belonged to Prophet (on what account)?

What kind of Anfal it was (a property of all Muslims governed by Prophet or a pure Prophet's property)
Where it is said that it belongs to Prophet?

This hadith was pertaining to fadak, Hz Abu Bakr (the ruler) knew it, and heir (Bibi Fatimah (AS) didn’t and therefore she put forward Quranic verses against it to show its fake, regardless of this discussion, what is your explanation regarding Bibi Fatimah (AS), Imam Ali (AS) didn’t know it and Hz Abu Bakr knew it?)

Moreover, it was under the custody of Ahl-e-Biyat and testimonies were also given by Imam Ali and Jawanan-e-Ahl e Jannah (purpose of testimony is to assure the validity of the claim)… Did any one given testimony of Hz Abu Bakr's behalf? And can Hz Abu Bakr demand testimonies (from those who are already custodian of the land, land as a gift not inheritance) at the fist place?

Hadith Hz Abu Bakr put forward this land belonged to ALL, can you please tell us why only Ahl-e-Biyat benefited from it? (it is matter of rules and regulations since Hz Abu Bakr didn’t accept when Hazrat Ali(AS) and Hasnain (AS) and Um-e-Ameen (RA) did testify, they were put down on legislative grounds rather sentimental ones, so Hz Abu Bakr ruled according to Shariah or his sentiments?)

(please according to Sunni historiography)

Regards

[Crescent]

Re: The issue of Fadak

@Elegant_Thinker

Brother Cresent you have given a very powerful statement " he gave the family of the Prophet pbuh all the harvest generated from Fadak, excluding Aisha r.a. because he didn't want his own daughter (although a member of the Prophet's pbuh family) to benefit from SOMETHING THAT BELONGED TO THE PROPHET PBUH. "

Please elaborate these points: How is it belonged to Prophet (on what account)?

What kind of Anfal it was (a property of all Muslims governed by Prophet or a pure Prophet's property) Where it is said that it belongs to Prophet?

This hadith was pertaining to fadak, Hz Abu Bakr (the ruler) knew it, and heir (Bibi Fatimah (AS) didn’t and therefore she put forward Quranic verses against it to show its fake, regardless of this discussion, what is your explanation regarding Bibi Fatimah (AS), Imam Ali (AS) didn’t know it and Hz Abu Bakr knew it?)

Moreover, it was under the custody of Ahl-e-Biyat and testimonies were also given by Imam Ali and Jawanan-e-Ahl e Jannah (purpose of testimony is to assure the validity of the claim)… Did any one given testimony of Hz Abu Bakr's behalf? And can Hz Abu Bakr demand testimonies (from those who are already custodian of the land, land as a gift not inheritance) at the fist place?

Hadith Hz Abu Bakr put forward this land belonged to ALL, can you please tell us why only Ahl-e-Biyat benefited from it? (it is matter of rules and regulations since Hz Abu Bakr didn’t accept when Hazrat Ali(AS) and Hasnain (AS) and Um-e-Ameen (RA) did testify, they were put down on legislative grounds rather sentimental ones, so Hz Abu Bakr ruled according to Shariah or his sentiments?)

(please according to Sunni historiography)

Regards

First ask yourself this.

Do you really think any discussion on this topic is going to waver you from your position?

Those stories you grew up on as a child going to change?

Sincerely ask yourself.

Our scholars have debated this to death in the past, what effect do you see it making on the sunni/shia majority at large?

What is the result from putting aside the religion, and making the pinnacle of islam these issues?

[Elegant_Thinker]

Re: The issue of Fadak

Allah (SWT) says in Quran that Kuffar (those who denied Prophet) knew him like their own sons but even then they denied him (reasons may vary, may be from child stories to extreme fanatic vendetta, etc)

Everyone who starts or indulges into such polemics should ask this question, I am no exception. But I guess the intentions of the thread were very genuine since there is very little information regarding shia school of thought (in books we are not mention, on tv very few reasonable scholars ever come) and their believes (ideological, historical, and Scio-economic, etc) therefore it is much relevant to disseminate "valid" information from those who adhere to it….

BUT since these issues have a distressful history of rage and ferocity therefore one needs to be conscience of this fact.

Regards

[righteous]

Re: The issue of Fadak

@Crescent Let me clear one thing

3:61 was not about cursing Abu Bakr, It was with the Christians and christians did accept the challenge but withdrew on seeing the faces of the prophet (SAW) and his family which included the following
Ali, Fatima, Hassan and Hussain.

This is recorded history and even in multiple sources of Ahle sunnat it is so, if you want to challenge it then I will post references.

[righteous]

Re: The issue of Fadak

@Crescent 33:33 did not include Aisha, since she is one of the narrator of the hadith herself and talks about the Ali, Fatimah, Hassan and Hussain along with the prophet (SAW).

It is in sahihs.

[psyah]

Re: The issue of Fadak

Peace ... I'm no expert on Fadak ... but I will not accept one thing and that is the assumption that Fatima-tu-Zahra (AS) was so upset about a piece of land on earth. When she (AS) knew that she would be the next one to die after Muhammad (SAW) and get heavenly gardens why would this earthly piece interest her enough to cause her become angry for it? And then to accuse her of becoming angry and holding a grudge this is not right either.

The house of Muhammad (SAW) were pious people and anger and such things are not from his Sunnah so how can they be from the Sunnah of his progeny?

If she did ask for the fadak and she did not get it for whatever reason, it is in her piety and dignity not to argue with the established leader, not to hold any grudges and to be content with Allah (SWT) and follow her father's (SAW) tradition which was to be charitable and sacrificing of ones rights for the sake of others. Muhammad (SAW) prayed for the people who stoned him in Taif, then why will his daughter (AS) be annoyed at the Muslim ruler who was her father's best friend and protected him?

[BOY-NICE]

Re: The issue of Fadak

Crescent, once again you did not refute any of the point I mentioned hwich means whatever I had written stand correct.

Now coming to what you have posted, and seriously that has taken us off topic:

@Crescent

I did not answer FOR the shias, I presented the Sunni view on this matter which is much more plausible.

Sorry to say but that is not plausible at all, deeming that Fatima Zahra [sa] would tell a lie just for a land is something not plausible at all.

[quote]

Let me get to a few points in this post. One thing I find frustrating from Shias is their references to the Quranic Ayahs.

You said she was made pure, by referencing verse 33 from Surah Ahzab:

This includes Aisha r.a. , who the Shias hate so much.

[/quote]

No sir, Ayesha herself has testified in Sahih Muslim about those who were made pure in 33:33 and at no point did she claim that she was also included in those being purified, if I am saying anything wrong here, then you are most welcome to correct me. But again, that is not the topic of this thread and we can still discuss Fadak without even discussing 33:33.

[quote]

As for the verse from Surah Al Imran, Here it is in context so you may better understand it:

Please tell me where Fatima r.a. is being told to curse Abu Bakr r.a. in this verse?

[/quote]

What? Please do not be like the typical SSP people, like we have been observing ALIJAN1001 here, who would just comment on a thing that was never claimed by the opponent, where in my any post did I claim that Fatima cursed Abu Bakar? That si the reason with some people that they do not understand the point that is being conveyed to them, my point was, that Allah [swt] chose Fatima Zahra [as] among those who would curse the lairs, that means she did not have the tendency of telling a lie - an indrect guarantee by Allah [swt], and now someone asking her to bring witness is like refuting her truthfulness.

[quote]
A command from the Prophet pbuh is a command from the Quran. We fully accept his message, and we abide by what he says and acts upon. Even Fatima r.a. did not take that issue to this level, which some people from this ummah have brought it to.
[/quote]

She did not talk to Abu Bakar and departed this world in an angry state with Abu Bakar [Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 53, Number 325], what more of the level do you want from her?

[quote]
It is sad to see fabrication enter hearts of so many people in such a manner. Its utterly disappointing to witness threads such as these cursing some of the Greatest men to accompany the Prophet pbuh.
[/quote]

Can you point out one such post here wherein anyone has cursed someone? Why are you trying your best to go off topic by bringing all sorts of irrelevant things here?

[quote]

I am sorry to get so upset, but this is reality. His household, and his companions mean a lot to sunnis, and we seriously frown upon anyone cursing either.

[/quote]

If that is the case, then to paraphrase your own post:

I am sorry to get so upset, but this is reality. His householdmean a lot to Shias, and we seriously frown upon anyone hurting them.

[Crescent]

Re: The issue of Fadak

@BOY-NICE

Crescent, once again you did not refute any of the point I mentioned hwich means whatever I had written stand correct.

Now coming to what you have posted, and seriously that has taken us off topic:

Sorry to say but that is not plausible at all, deeming that Fatima Zahra [sa] would tell a lie just for a land is something not plausible at all.

No sir, Ayesha herself has testified in Sahih Muslim about those who were made pure in 33:33 and at no point did she claim that she was also included in those being purified, if I am saying anything wrong here, then you are most welcome to correct me. But again, that is not the topic of this thread and we can still discuss Fadak without even discussing 33:33.

What? Please do not be like the typical SSP people, like we have been observing ALIJAN1001 here, who would just comment on a thing that was never claimed by the opponent, where in my any post did I claim that Fatima cursed Abu Bakar? That si the reason with some people that they do not understand the point that is being conveyed to them, my point was, that Allah [swt] chose Fatima Zahra [as] among those who would curse the lairs, that means she did not have the tendency of telling a lie - an indrect guarantee by Allah [swt], and now someone asking her to bring witness is like refuting her truthfulness.

She did not talk to Abu Bakar and departed this world in an angry state with Abu Bakar [Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 53, Number 325], what more of the level do you want from her?

Can you point out one such post here wherein anyone has cursed someone? Why are you trying your best to go off topic by bringing all sorts of irrelevant things here?

If that is the case, then to paraphrase your own post:

I am sorry to get so upset, but this is reality. His householdmean a lot to Shias, and we seriously frown upon anyone hurting them.

Aisha r.a. would never tell a lie either. She had been defended by the Quran also. Yet Shias curse her day and night, and then you're asking me who is cursing who?

That is a response to half of your post, the other half, well please read Psyah's post regarding Fatima a.s. The Princess of Jannah.

[Crescent]

Re: The issue of Fadak

@aqeel123

So Aisha can go on a war against Imam Ali a.s when Quran commanded her to stay home but she cannot tell a lie ?

U can decide who is included in Ahley-bait in 33:33, but its certainly not someone who went against Quran.

and for sake of people u love.... plz stick to the topic :), its not a "y shias hate enemies of ahleybait (a.s)" debate; its abt fidak.

And the Prophet pbuh MARRIED and LOVED a person who went against Quran? Ali r.a. married his family to her family?

So, its more subjective than objective? This is what Quran tells us to do?

The topic can't be more clear than that, the hatred for those who were "enemies" has become pinnacle for the shias. Its fadak, succession, kerbala, etc that continue to divide the ummah.

[Elegant_Thinker]

Re: The issue of Fadak

Well now the topic has evolved from Fadak to panicle of Ummah…

Well Hz. Aisha is the Um-ul Momeenin (according to the Quran) and any kind of accusation and allegation (esp. insult and offense) is directly towards Prophet Muhammad (PBUH&HP), therefore I am not in favor of this. If any brother is doing it, please don’t.
According to my limited knowledge Hz. Aisha has no role in this episode of history, so why is she discussed here? (whether wives of Prophet are part of "Ahl-e-Biyat" or not, I think it is separate issue)

Brother Psycha has right to differ. But since thread was with sole purpose of Fadak from Shiites point of view therefore such sentimental standpoints are merely in the foot notes of this thread. This issue has a very much political as well as ideological relevance especially to Shiites. And we just don’t believe everything went well from the day of demise of Prophet Muhammad (PBUH&HP), a lot happened and especially with Ahl-e-Biyat. And according to our sources (and sunni as well) Prophet left two things behind one is Quran and second is Ahl-e-Biyat and it is our duty to highlight their eve of happiness and grievances and be part of it…. . We count event of Fadak another tragedy….

And as it is said, she was grieved just because of a piece of land, it doesn’t make sense, I totally agree, it really doesn’t make sense to me either. But history tells us she was much grieved, why? To see what is going to happen to her father's scarifies for the establishment of ISLAM. Now these people will decide what is right and what is not, now their word will be as holy as the word of Prophet of Allah (SWT) and yes history tells us she was grieved and told her husband berry me at night, and never let these people participate in my burial…. . She was buried in night with the grief…

Whatever the reasons were Bibi went in the court (so called since we believe it was not a legitimate one) demanded her right along with were Hazrat Ali(AS) and Hasnain Kareemain (AS) and it was denied, she contested the discussion but decision was already made, because if she is given fadak today, she will demand for Khilafat tomorrow… .

Regards.