Wait, so you are justifying rape? Men cannot suppress their sexual desires so rape is justified? Rape is a CRIME (even in Islam) and you are required to restrain yourself around women even in Islam. Before you enter a room where you suspect a female might be, you are to announce your presence. That is how much self control you are supposed to have.
Yes, they **can **be suppressed and controlled. Majority of men that I have met are not in heat 24/7 and start panting at the sight of a woman. If Allah swt has truly designed you in a way where you have NO self control, I am sure you have some proof of the matter. I am not talking about a bigger sexual appetite. I am talking about zero self control around women.
Please do not go down this road. It is wrong to harass women because some men are not intelligent enough to control themselves.
Honestly, I read these threads and pray shukranay for my husband.
This thing is very clear from the Quran, women are meant for indoors, and not for going out under normal circumstance. its ignorance to believe otherwise.
women having jobs is acceptable but is not the normal guidelines, and needs husbands explicit permission to leave the house.
Permission is not equivalent to prohibition. To be clear: it IS allowed and can be normal when your husband allows it.
Women are not meant for indoors…their privacy and comfort is guarded heavily indoors (it is their right) and there is a difference. When they leave the home, they are instructed how to carry themselves to protect them. When they are home, MEN are instructed how to enter, leave, announce and safeguard their privacy at all times.
In your mind, this means women should not leave the home when that is not true. Women are to be respected and their privacy is of utmost importance as they may do pardah and their home is the only place they can truly feel comfortable and should not be required to do pardah.
Yes its in the same hadith. Well this is not exactly how it goes, if a singer sings and anyone who listens all those sins combined are added to the sigers sins, similarly here, if a woman doesnt dress as per requirements, sure she will also bare his sins added to her, and he will also get the sins. As has actions became the source to attain those sins.
Well as for harassment, everyone weak in Pakistan is harassed, men, women, children, elderly, its not only isolated to women. Those cases come out to the media even less, coz they are not cash making stories for the news unfortunately.
Well its not as simple as her “responsibility begins and ENDS at modesty” the question is who defines modesty, and whose definition of modesty shall we take, yours, mines or that of Allah’s.
No one sins is anyone else’s responsibility, but as i mentioned if not as per sharia then she will also get portion of that sins.
No one is responsible for anyones crime, but again who here defines whats a crime? you, me or Allah..
Now there r two different types of crimes, one which are punishable in this world and one in the hereafter. But they r both crimes.
Again we cannot justify the man being mostly at fault, some fault also remains on the womans part. So I would say both attitudes are ridiculous.
Although some women are so innocent they dont have an idea of what an evil man maybe after and thus may not care thinking ppl r so innocent.
We cannot let anyone put any meaning to a word, now anyone can be free to have their own meaning to any word e.g. modesty, but then why should I or anyone should accept that meaning, if the two are equal. Thus we have to refer to the meaning of words correctly.
Again everyone will pay for their sins only, but many times sins account works as a referral account lol u get more by causing other ppl to sin, same as with good deeds. He is sure responsible for all that u stated, similarly as the woman is for the wrongs in her behaviour.
adultery is a different issue, its done by the consent of both the parties. here we dont have consent so its a different issue. and i do not even here suggest that the woman be punished more or even equally. In such cases the harasser is sure at a bigger fault and does a criminal act.
Sure it doesnt give an excuse to rape etc.. but u have to realize without proper upbringing humans are more like animals. if u notice most ppl in pakistan due to circumstances have become very much psychologically disturbed and does not really behave like humans elsewhere, there r always in their most primal instinct mode. Its sad but true, such ppl as u mentioned have no self respect, and see themselves as very cheap, since all their lives they have been treated as if they have no worth… for them image and prestige doesnt exist.
Prophet saw is sure too perfect, but simple doesnt mean deviating to illicit behaviour is justified.
Prophet saw himself said “all of you (men and women) make mistakes…” , so we sure cannot be perfect.
The role of women is very clearly defined in islam. She is allowed to go out and work if all of these conditions are met (1) her job is sharia compliant (2) the woman guarantees her safety, chastity and religion (note the onus is on woman), (3) job suits her physical and psychological nature (4) has permission from her husband.
Now sis..this was a great reply, but I’m sure it will go over the heads of people who like to sht out statistics without context and like to turn the blind eye on the misogyny in fcking Pakistan. Pakistan isn’t even a country that can pretend it cares about the well being of women when there is so much heinous sh*t going on in there. But you still have people that want to pull up stats from the the ~West~ and be like “look!! it’s worse there!!!.”
I concur, women have a lot more rights and protections in America than Pakistan and so do children. I think a lot of women rights activist in desi cultures forget that children have a lot of rights and protection under western laws. The child abuse/corporal punishment that is considered normal in Pakistan and usually metted out by women is unacceptable in America.
I think we need to advocate against domestic violence of all forms. Pakistani shouldn’t hit women and likewise Pakistani women shouldn’t hit kids. It’s like a cycle of abuse in desi culture.
Issues mentioned here are not unique to Pakistan. In India the same issues are far more prevalent including under-reporting. Be it Mexico or Philippines, in most underdeveloped places abuse of power takes place against the weak. I’ve seen in Pakistan where if a woman is privileged, she would get her servant beaten to a pulp for minor suspected theft. Some female teachers routinely administer toughest punishments to students. I had a female teacher long time ago who used to pride herself in beating her students so bad that they won’t be able to speak in raised voice for three days. At times it’s just abuse of power, whoever gets a chance plays the stroke.
I don’t understand the need for public floggimg for harassment - which should not be confused with molestation. As for staring, any woman slapping a man for staring should be charged with assault. They can stare right back, or ignore or walk away. I certainly hope we dont arrive at a place in time when civil,rights such as the right to observe is taken away!
Is it your position that the percent of unreported crimes such as rape is the same in The aindian subcontinent vs the US? Do you have any link to back that up?
Controlling a woman does not make a man a man. It makes him a non-man to feel empowered by oppressing others. Men who generally lack in many areas of life always try to oppress women. Oppression is the only tool they have. They don’t possess much else of worth and are afraid someone else will figure it out too.
Now if they could control other MEN, that would make them a real man. But I doubt they have it in them.
And again, those conditions are NOT prohibitions. They are simply guidelines to follow so as not to disrupt harmony for both people.
Let’s say she chooses not to work…she still has the right to a cook, maid, nanny and pretty much anything financially she chooses. She can twiddle her thumbs all day or watch soap operas and he would have no right to question because she is not obligated to take care of his children. She has the right to demand and he is obligated to fulfill.
So instead of going through all that, most women end up being reasonable and only ask for what their husbands can afford. And this attitude is what kills them.
I have no idea why Pakistani women are happy on the day of their wedding…a guy gives you a nice outfit and some jewelry so you can bring a boatload of Jahaiz with you, then come and take care of his brother, his sister, cook, clean, raise his kids, wash his clothes and take care of his parents that even he cannot stand.
So the females in Pakistan BUY (jahaiz) their husbands and their responsibilities.
From a purely financial standpoint, marriage in Pakistan is a terrible deal for women but a very lucrative one for men.