Re: The concept of being Stoned to Death
Thand Mol...:) from me....
Re: The concept of being Stoned to Death
Not any hadees but ahadees that are Mutawatir. Its not only my view but view of the Sunni jurists/muhaddits.
I don't care what the Sunni Jurists/muhaddits think about the mutawatir Hadith. I cannot accept anything to be above a single dot of Holy Quran. This is a ridicolous and dangerous thinking.
Re: The concept of being Stoned to Death
*abu hurraira have written this ahadees to his student Hammam ...with name...i think..shaheefa sadiqa....
Yes...he is the earliest known source of compiled hadith. Did not occur in the same manner or time frame as the compilation of the Quran.
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....it does not mean that 2 hijri muslims compiled ahadees...they just collected under different topics and subjects...
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Collection is compilation, and I know there weren't only two. The point is, those efforts did not happen in paralelll with the compilation of the Quran.
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...but ahadees are actually transmitted as said by Conservative Girl...from the same sahabs which compiled quran.....
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Not true, and the hadith themselves don't agree with that. Read my response to CG.
Re: The concept of being Stoned to Death
^^if you simply want to follow what you want..then plz. go on..
Who is following what they want? What a silly and absurd thing to even suggest. We're arguing for the primacy of the Quran.
Let's cut the nonsense. Do you believe in that or not?
Re: The concept of being Stoned to Death
[quote="khanbabax, post:4, topic:161905"]
There are two kind of revelation
- The recited one = Quran
2. The un-recited one = Saying/acts of Prophet s.a.w. From time to time Allah would send this type of revelation but it would not be part of the Quran, but Prophet s.a.w would explain it to the people through this actions, words etc./quote]
Khanbabax, this is your personal interperation of the weight of Ahadees. I think, you are bias. I am very critical, hence you seem just as for going as Shia sect claming various sort of claims about Quran being incomplite. You fall into same category. And this is the part, I think, is taking it too far.....
So in other words, you are claiming Prophet Muhammed pbuh was a ONLY Prophet throughout his life and was not a human being, with NO whatsoever own opinions? That everything said by Rasoolallah his entire life, was the words of Allahjee? Personally, this is why I think that in Quran, there is quoted endless times, that Rasoolallah is BASHAR....human being....dont turn him pbuh more than that?
May Allahejee forgive you and also I, if we are mistaken major time.....
And for Hareem bibijee,
Dont ya worry....Im having exams....I will refresh your short time memory so you wont comment and then act as if people at Forum are going weird on you. You can browse your own posts, under your profile....u will find a question you asked me about a none muslim person. And you are my headache, because women aka mothers like you, is the responsible persona at home, giving their children a very intolerant upbringing.....so they loathe all other sects..full of hatred. You add to it. It all begins at home. You sound as Hibz-ul Tahriir member to me...... Dont hide behind a unspecified thing as "truth". Every sect under the sun, believe they FOLLOW the truth.
Re: The concept of being Stoned to Death
I thought it was obvious what i was trying to say. There can't be a contradiction between sunnah and Quran, true. But some people unfortunately fabricate hadith, a contradiction can only occur in that form, agree? I mean its not impossible that some people blatantly lie. Bear in mind I am not talking about the topic at hand.
Dawa i dil, read what i wrote again and this time take a cool drink while you are at it.
Exactly same thinking..........thanks for cutting it out!
Re: The concept of being Stoned to Death
Akhi, when it is said there is no reasoning or not to ask too many questions, what is meant is do not split hairs, not close the doors on intellect and intuition. If there was no reasoning in Islam that would have meant the death of Fiqh. The very premise of Ijtihad is reasoning i.e. analogical reasoning.
For music, I think the thread about music in which we read Dr. Sufi’s comments was pretty much what makes sense. When we quote hadith we should quote ahadith that explain or discuss the issue from all angles not just those that support our sandbox POV.
Re: The concept of being Stoned to Death
Alhamdulillah Allah SWT blessed some people with the intellect and perseverance to collect the ahadith and we should be thankful for that. However our gratitude should not so much that we start diefying those people and there works. By diefying I do not mean worship but the fact that we attach so much reverance to them that we start thinking it is wrong or sinful to contradict them or even question something. There is nothing wrong but infact it is good if we are respectful of them.
I also agree much of the Quran requires ahadith. However think about this, in the time of the Prophet SAW the Sahaba required not hadith or one liners to understand the Quran. The Quran was revealed based on the life progression and events in the life of Muhammad SAW. A vast majority of the Quran was revealed to guide the Prophet SAW throughout his Prophethood when faced with dilemmas. A large portion of the Quran namely that revealed in Makkah has to do with instilling the basics of Islamic characteristics in the new muslims. Now I am not here to discredit ahadith because I believe in them and follow them, actually I try to understand them. The ahadith cannot be understood all the time as standalone narrations because they do not present the historical context around what has been recorded. In order to understand both Quran and even ahadith a study of the Sirah is necessary. Some ahadith are very explanatory but others are not.
Infact a very big flaw in todays published ahadith books is that they are not accompanied with their proper historical contexts which makes them open to all kinds of heretical interpretations or one-sided interpretations (which we see a lot here).
Re: The concept of being Stoned to Death
And for Hareem bibijee,
Dont ya worry....Im having exams....I will refresh your short time memory so you wont comment and then act as if people at Forum are going weird on you. You can browse your own posts, under your profile....u will find a question you asked me about a none muslim person. And you are my headache, because women aka mothers like you, is the responsible persona at home, giving their children a very intolerant upbringing.....so they loathe all other sects..full of hatred. You add to it. It all begins at home. You sound as Hibz-ul Tahriir member to me...... Dont hide behind a unspecified thing as "truth". Every sect under the sun, believe they FOLLOW the truth.
Pathani bibijee.....
May God give you sabr and tolerance. I am saying it again that i don't belong to any sect....hizbu tahrir or ahle hadith or shia or sunni or whatever.....I'told you this so many times.....it seems it is you who needs to refresh her short time memory.
Re: The concept of being Stoned to Death
Yes...he is the earliest known source of compiled hadith. Did not occur in the same manner or time frame as the compilation of the Quran.
so...its means that he has collected fabricated ahadees...or made himself...what a blame on the great sahabi of prophet(pbuh) for which prophet(pbuh) himself prayed for knowledge of deen...and now ...you are questioning about the that pray of prophet(pbuh) !!!!!
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Collection is compilation, and I know there weren't only two. The point is, those efforts did not happen in paralelll with the compilation of the Quran.
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so, what....even Abu bake like greatest sahabi was not willing to collect quran...it was Umar...who insisted him....similarly...i think....Umar also stopped people from quoting ahadees as in hadees...if someone will say lie to prophet(pbuh) will remain in hell...so its the atmost protection....but latter on...when sahabas...left the world....and and very less sahabs left...then people collected ahadees....so that to preserve that precious collection...in quran collection and latter period...people directly used to ask from sahabas...about particular saying...but latter...when sahabas were no more...its necessary to put ahadees just as quran...
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Not true, and the hadith themselves don't agree with that. Read my response to CG.
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all narraotors are Ibne abbas...aisha..umar...abdullah ibne umar...abu huraira...ali...abu saeed khudri...jabir bin abdullah etc etc...are not they all sahabs ?????
tabai and taba tabi narrated them...as when sahabs died...its necesaary to protect ahadees ...so narration went on..whats so wrong with that ????
Re: The concept of being Stoned to Death
Pls clarify...were Adam and Eve married?
Re: The concept of being Stoned to Death
I fully agree with you…we should not close the doors of intellect…
but …
there are 4 pillars of islami shariah …
1.Quran
2.Hadees/sunnah
3.ijma
4.qiyyas
*** Ijmah **
*** Qiyaas**
***Ijtihaad **
comes only when there is not anthing mention in
*** quran**
*sunnah(shaheeh ahadees)
The supreme pillars of shariah and fiqah
but when in ahadees…clear cut negation of music…then no question of qiyaas..ijmah…and ijtihaad…
regarding music and musical instruments…
*hanafi
*shafi
*maliki
*hanabal
*ahle-hadees
*jaffria/shia
unanimously agreed …or Ijmah that it is forbidden…i dont know ..haram word can i use or not…but forbidden…
Only..Only..samah..means qawali…is llowed by few sufia..like chisti…etc…but under veryu strict conditions…
*** all have wadu**
no vulgarity at all
*** no cheapness*
etc etc
but a great no. of scholars also opposed that…Actually in indo-pak region..people used to music..so…this could lead people to islam…thats why..some people give that logic…
however…rest all is forbidden…only Daaf is allowed ..on wedding…battles..eid etc…
regarding ahadees..i quoted ..i purposely not given all stuff as it would have made the thread long…however i give the lnk below…so that ..on better understanding of ythis issue…we can reach…
http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=5000&ln=eng&txt=music
http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=11563&ln=eng&txt=music
http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=5011&ln=eng&txt=music
ruling on daff
http://www.islam-qa.com/index.php?ref=20406&ln=eng&txt=music
Re: The concept of being Stoned to Death
brot..this is because ..in times of prophet(pbuh)...sahabs directly asked the prophet(pbuh) about particular ayat....and prophet(pbuh) reply wsa "hadees"...when prophet(pbuh) and sahabas were alive...no need of hadees compilation..even though abu hurrira and abdullah ibne amr bin al;ass collected in written form....but after sahabas...ahadees collection neede...just as after hufaaz martyrdom in battle of yamama...quran collection was needed...
Re: The concept of being Stoned to Death
Pls clarify...were Adam and Eve married?
Sis..are u asking me...????
or its just a question off the topic..plz. clarify
thanks...
Re: The concept of being Stoned to Death
^^
Dawa...I am asking the question to anyone generally...
And It is most definetly related to the topic.
Re: The concept of being Stoned to Death
^^
no no...stoning is done only when a married man/woman commits adultery....with someone else....
while according to one hadees ...Eve was created from back rib (pasli)...i think..not sure whats tyhe english...of Adam...so...allah made Eve for Adam....
if you are talking in a sense of marrying with mehndi..walima..dhol ...bajai...etc...certainly...when only 2 were thier ...how can be such thing happened....
but this is illogical question..first time ..i hearing from you...Adam was the prophet of Allah...and we should not blame him and Eve....after all they were husband and wife...but i dont know ..what you want to ask...???
Re: The concept of being Stoned to Death
^^
Exactly...marrying is not mehndi walima etc...two people can be together without formality and it need not be called fornication.
I am not blaming anyone least of all Adam or Eve.
Its very logical question
Re: The concept of being Stoned to Death
^^
Exactly...marrying is not mehndi walima etc...two people can be together without formality and it need not be called fornication.
I am not blaming anyone least of all Adam or Eve.
Its very logical question
its not a logical question ...its a silly question to ask....bcoz there wasn't any Shariah of Prophet Muhammad(SAW) in Adam(AS)'s times.
Re: The concept of being Stoned to Death
:salam:
Agreed.
Partially agreed. Sometimes an Ijmah is required to understand ahadith.
This is where I disagree. The type of music is not specified in the ahadith and its characteristics are understood from other principles in the Quran and Sunnah.
Anything which lends itself to waste of time or a bad cause is what we should refrain from. You can’t simply make it haram. For example, if your spending time learning a musical instrument then that is to no avail in the cause of Allah SWT. You would simply be wasting your time when it could have been spent better in repentance or rememberance of Allah SWT or even earning a living through halal means.
The issue of music being forbidden or disliked depends on the purpose of the music. If your music is being accompanied with belly dancers or girls gone wild type of situations then clearly it is serving as a means to propagate Fawahish and that is forbidden. Take the hadith for example when the Prophet SAW let people have music on the occasion of the Eid, if it were haram just because it was music then can we imagine the Prophet SAW indulging in something haram, never. The purpose of the music was to celebrate Eid, its our festival in which we celebrate and be thankful. The music itself on such an occasion had not purpose of its own other than adding a little enjoyment to the occasion or to promote the occasion of Eid.
Now if you go to a resturant where people often date and you have very romantic atmosphere, soothing music, then ofcourse the purpose of the music there is to enhance the atmosphere of dating, the music being played is accompanied with a purpose. To me that is forbidden because it is being used to promote something that is forbidden.
The examples of Qawwali etc, is not less tainted either. Is that not a waste of time? What is it they achieve out of it and yet they are performing either to entertain people of make money of our their show. To me this is more disliked or forbidden as compared to playing music on the occasion of an Eid. Wouldn’t these people who are singing Qawwali and behaving as majnoons or as if they are in a Nasheeli state while singing be better off offering a couple of rakah Nafl or doing charity work or repenting than doing this. There is no benefit to it.
Daff is one of the few instruments which were existing during the Prophet SAW era. Let me contrast the Daff with other woodwind instruments. Daff requires negligible skill to play, just beat on the thing whereas other complicated instrument such as wind instruments require considerable skills or devoted time to play and sound good as well. Whats the basic premise you see here, one instrument leads to a waste of time learning it whereas the other does not. I am sure even Daffs or drums accompany Mujaras, Belly dances or any of the vulgar dances or music that was played in the Arabian culture 1400 years ago. Then why wasn’t the Daf made haram accordingly.
Now if you are getting addicted to a Daf even that would be forbidden because of your un-necessary attachment to it.
Just making instrument harams or halal will not change the way people live or think. You need to explain what it is you seek by your action. What is it you are trying to prevent.
Your abilities to perform certain things are not haram but the choices you make with them where the premise of halal and haram means anything.
Re: The concept of being Stoned to Death
brot..this is because ..in times of prophet(pbuh)...sahabs directly asked the prophet(pbuh) about particular ayat....and prophet(pbuh) reply wsa "hadees"...when prophet(pbuh) and sahabas were alive...no need of hadees compilation..even though abu hurrira and abdullah ibne amr bin al;ass collected in written form....but after sahabas...ahadees collection neede...just as after hufaaz martyrdom in battle of yamama...quran collection was needed...
I can't understand what is was you were trying to answer here.