The concept of being Stoned to Death

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: The concept of being Stoned to Death

:salam:

Are you trying to say two people can be together without a marriage contract and yet be not called fornicators (should they have indulged in the act).

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Re: The concept of being Stoned to Death

[QUOTE]
Partially agreed. Sometimes an Ijmah is required to understand ahadith.
[/QUOTE]

Ijma is never against the Quran and Sunnah, 100%.

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Re: The concept of being Stoned to Death

USR - I am asking you to think whether Adam and Eve were married or not.

Hareem - The quran was sent for all mankind and it follows on from other previous scriptures. So I think Allahs laws apply to all humans whether prophets or not whether the first people or not.

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Re: The concept of being Stoned to Death

very good point and approach…i once heard that …umar …on the night …with camel riding…with his slave …and slave sung a song …till morning…and then umar said that …now top.its time for fajr prayer…

qawalli …i once read that…done by Chisti aulia..to attract hindus to islam…now-a-days…yes…its wasting of money and time…but yet..with qawali…representing hazrat ali(ra)…or prophet(pbuh)…or any wali…also give some impact…specially that of sabir very famous qawaali about prophet(pbuh)…which is used to tele cast in Ramzan Sahri transmission on PTV …

but…still…now-a-days…99.99% music is used to enhance your internal desires…isnt this the case ???

whether bolly-wood…holly-wood…or pakistani punjabi…urdu ,eevery song…compare milli songs created every year with that of other songs…in Pakistan or in whole the world…

so , as you said that music in restaurant enhances the atmosphere of dating…similarly…todays music enhances the internal desires of man/woman by poetry…and effect of man voice on man and vice-versa…remebering…in Quran

*woman stiff voice is required…
*she cannot give azan…
*she cannot interrupt imam of masjid on any mistake except by her bangles…

So…when Allah not given permission in Azan and Masjid matters…can it be allowed to woman sing songs with love…poetry..describing** “****Sarapa”…**of body…and “Wardatai” of hearts..of urdu poetry…the taste of Intezaar…
Hijr ki ratai…wasal ki ghatai…teerai nazar…dard-e-jiggar…etc etc

Is there anything in songs except other mentiod things…???

Similarly…a world known fact that is…the effect of man good voice on woman is much greater than vice-versa…its psycholigically proved…which is called “Gambheer Awaz” means manly voice…and believe it…many girls love any particular beacuse of voice…

One more thing ..when the voice impact comes…the second and **MUST **stage is watching face…but it is not also allowed except one glance…

Remeber…when Moosa used to talk with Allah Almighty…atlast the stage came when he said…Ya Arani…O Allah ..show you to me…Allah said…Lan Tarani…You cannot see me…i think..i have written the correct arabic…not sure…

anyways…after listening ..watching must comes…but Moosa could bear it…as we all know it…

So…voice and face go in parallel…

as both are not allowed there is also barrier here in todays 99% songs…

Also we know that…its order in Quran to ask anything from wifes of Prophet(pbuh) behind the curtain…

plus…such type of poertry is also prohibited in islam**…as in Quran of Sura Shaora…**

So…question is which music allowed…

Pakistan zindaabad type and national songs…
or
Nasheeds …

So…from any angel…you take about presesnt day songs situation…a big question mark…comes forward…

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Re: The concept of being Stoned to Death

why we have to think on such questions..its useless task and waste of brain....

now..its means ..we should also think....how jibreel put the will/amr of allah in Maryam..although she was not married ?????

why wastage on such illogcal questions....

And quran and all othger Shariah and scriptures are not same..only tauhed is same...rest all depends upon atmosphere and time span for which they revealed....but what you want to say...taht apply stonnig principles on Adam and Eve ?????

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Re: The concept of being Stoned to Death

Asalaam u Alaikum!
Quran is sent for all mankind for those who were alive at the time of revelation and for those who came after them and for those who will be coming after them untill Qyamah.
People who came before Quran were following their own scriptures or laws. But after the revelation of Quran, it abrogated all the previous revelations.

Thats what you think.............Also sometimes Allah's laws are different for common people for example Prophet Muhammad(SAW) was married 11 times but for the ummah only 4 wives at a time are allowed.

Paindoo list...
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Re: The concept of being Stoned to Death

^^ very true ....

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Re: The concept of being Stoned to Death

nope brot....

daff is aloowed at ...

*eid
*wedding
*circumsion
*child birth
etc etc...

or any other joyful moment and day...during which ..there is no wastage of time in happy moment...

and only women can play...not men....so no intimations....

and hadees says ...my ummah will hala musical instruments...so plural ..prophet(pbuh) used ...maens all are haram..except daff on happy occasions ...by women only..on wedding etc..

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I am not saying that i am very pious...Muttaqi..and... perhez gar type man....

i am worst muslim than you or any other....

i listen more songs than you .....

*** Jagjit** ..Ishq kijiyai phir samajiyai..zindagi kya cheez hai...

**Atif..*aab to aadat see hai mujh ko....

Dil dai diya hai..jaan tumhai dai gai..dhukha nahi karai gai sanam...(Masti)*

  • and some hip hops belly dance English songs...

qiete often..i used to listen and gungunana...etc

Yes..its my fault...greatest fault..as i know..its forbidden..even then..i listen to them....

But i will never "justify" my sin...as Uzre gunnah batttar us gunnah....

its my fault and i whole heartedly accept that....

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Re: The concept of being Stoned to Death

:salam:

Your POV somewhat agrees with mine now but still you cannot declare it haram. Yes I agree todays music is promoting nothing but Fawahish and people go to great lengths mastering the playing of instruments to attract audiences and gain fame.

The example of luring people to Islam with music as many Sufia or Aulia did is a questionable approach. So in the case where it is being used for Dawah you are relaxing your haram POV. Yet you have been arguing its HARAM period. I would say anyone attracted in this manner is coming because of their love for music not love for Allah SWT, though some leverage can be given as there spending Zakat in the cause of inviting others to Allah SWT is allowed. This would be a analogous situation however there would be a very thin line here.

Agree that a woman should not utilize her voice to please others or attract others.

If you are using your voice to attract people to you then it is wrong however if you are using it to underscore something else for example the recitation of Quran then nothing wrong with it.

For a person who is attracted to beautiful recitation of Quran (I’m one) is because the love of hearing Quran in melody not because I like a person for his voice.

To some extent voice and face go in parallel but I think its only when your message is about something you thought up. Again it depends on what is being said.

There is no clear distinction that music is haram, its all relative to what it is being used for and what message are you delivering using it.

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Re: The concept of being Stoned to Death

So are you saying the instrument of choice makes it haram or the occasion?

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Right answer.

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Re: The concept of being Stoned to Death

Holy Quran Chapter 24 Surah Noor verse 2:

‘The woman and the man guilty of ‘zina’ (fornication) flog each of them with a hundred stripes: let not compassion move you in their case in a matter prescribed by Allah if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day: and let a party of the believers witness their punishment.’

Sahih Al-Bukhari Hadith 8.810 Narrated by Jabir:

‘A man from the tribe of Aslam came to the Prophet :saw: and confessed that he had committed adultery (illegal sexual intercourse). The Prophet :saw: turned his face away from him till the man bore witness against himself four times. The Prophet :saw: said to him, “Are you mad?” He said “No.” The Prophet :saw: asked, “Are you married?” He said, “Yes.” Then the Prophet :saw: ordered that he be stoned to death, and he was stoned to death at the Musalla (public gathering place).’

Fornication: If a man or woman who is guilty of ‘zina’ (fornication) is unmarried, Shariah law prescribes a punishment of 100 lashes in public.

Adultery: If a man or woman who is guilty of ‘zina’ (adultery) is married, Shariah law prescribes that the guilty party should be stoned to death in public.

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no..i am not saying the word **“haram”…**even in the earlier post i have said …that forbidden..as directly in quran..its not declared as haram…in ahadees…its indication of satnic voices…and breaking ofr musical instrument…but not used the word haram…as far my little knopwledge is concerned…

and yes..samah and qawali ..is a very complex issue…i have already said that many great scholars also prohibited it…even great sufia …prohibited it…like Charag Shah Dellvi…and i think ..he was student of Nizaam ud Din Aulia of delhi..which i think was very fond of samah and allowed it…

and ..yes..this thing is 100% right…Music gives taste to Nafs...no doubt…for example…have you ever heard the qawali “Sanuu data ki nagri pyari lagdi…”..with musical instruments…althougj..its about Syed Ali Hajveri…but its give passion…and enthusisim and taste to **Nafs…**although ..its total free from any vulgarity…

but…since..i do not say anything…as any person..having true knowledge about samah…qawali..its purpose etc can shed a bright light on it…as there are many grear sufia comes into this line…and i cannot dare to say even a single word against aulia of such a great status…

Exactly..i agree with you…Once Hazrat aisha(ra) was going into street of medina…and from one house…a sahabi was reciting Quran..his recitation was so beatiful that aisha stopped and listened to this recitation..and when came home ..said about this to Prophet(pbuh?)…and prophet(pbuh) then went and listened to himself…and then said to him…This ummah is blessed which produces such a beutiful voive of quran in it…

Simialrly..once Abdullah ibne Masood(ra) was going in street of Kufa…some youth were singing songs on **“barapt”…**i think…a musical instrument…and drinking…Abdullah ibne masood ..put his shawl on his head and said that …**what a beautiful voice…may this voice is used to recire Quran…**and went forward…

That young man..whose name was **Zadan…**asked who was there…people replied that…he was Abdulklah ibne Masood…the greatest sahabi and scholar of quran…what he was saying…people told ewhat abdullah ibne masood said…

On hearing..zadan..broke the** barapt**..and went to abdullah ibne masood…and started weeping…ibne masood embracced him …he then did tauba…and became one of the scholar of quran and hadees under ibne masood…

But…today..plz..tell me…how many quran recitation CDs and Naat CDs are listenesd as compared to Atif..Sonu Nigham…CDs…i think…99 to 1 % ratio..or even less…

plz..give some examples where music can be used with “POSITIVE” use…and in present day scenario…i mean…todays naats on Q TV are fully loaded with modern stereo and musical instruments…so ..if naats…the love of prophet(pbuh) negate the saying of prophet(pbuh) himself…what else we expect…from other things which can be done “positively” with music…

**

now..here see …clear cut…negation of musical instruments…prophet(pbuh) mot mentiod…any specific instrument but talk generally…means …all musical instrument included in it…

So…in the light of above ahadees…can Naats on Q TV …specailly which** Brelvi school of Though** recites…can be allowed…

And plz..ponder over the word “PERMIT” in the above hadees…which clearly shows that ot is forbidden…but my ummah will allow it under** “some Cover”**…like for reciting naats…and qawalis…that we are doing in the love of prophet(pbuh) and aulia…so "PERMISSION: will be done…however ..it would not be allowed…

Prophet(pbuh) also said in the above mention hadees that..my ummah will permit…also…

***Zina…in the name of **

1.Mutah…(direact zina)
2.Watching(zinna of eyes in name of admiring the eauty of nature as women are created by nature)
3.Hearing(music..as by cover of nusic washes away soul dust and food of rooh)
4.thinking(lustful thoughts asits dosent harm if actually zina is not done…)
5.Talking(lustful talking…in the name of literature)

And above all mentiod things are stated in a very fanous hadees that is…
A man do zina from eyes..ears…mind..lehs…and etc ..by watching..walking..hearing…and thinking..when all these zina criteria have been done…then private parts only actually do that or negate that…but all above mentios criteria have been fulfilled…

Again from above hadees…

Drinking will be permitted in the name of…

1.medication(as its too cold ..so little wine is allowed…)
2.Sharbat-e-Muffarah (a sharbat which gives happiness)
3.**Arq-e-Shifa **(As quran says..it also has benifit..so its allow…)
4.barley water which “ALSO” has nasha in it…not all which we usually drink…

Silk will be permitted in the name of…
1.Rau Silk suits…(as its look nice to wear thse suits)
2.nylon having much ratio of silk so its prominent that you are weraing silk…

So…our prophet(pbuh) altready indicated that my ummah will find "lOOP HOLES "…to twist the meanings of ayats…ahadsees ..to follow thier desires…and wishes…

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Re: The concept of being Stoned to Death

Respected bro....

Among my ummah there will certainly be people who permit zinaa, silk, alcohol and musical instruments…” **(Narrated by al-Bukhaari ta’leeqan*, no. 5590; narrated as mawsool by al-Tabaraani and al-Bayhaqi. See al-Silsilah **al-Saheehah by al-Albaani, 91)**.*

So prophet(pbuh) not mentiod any "SPECIFIC"that my ummah will that instrument halal...

so , its mean that all instruments are forbidden.....

but ...but.... but.....

since prophet(pbuh) allowed to play deaff on...

  • weddings..so that all people know its legal marriage not adultery...

  • eid when small girls were singing poetry in praise of** badr martyrs**...

Since these 2 above occasions are "HAPPY MOMENTS" ...so FUQHAS deduced that ...on happy occasions other than that...also permitted but few also oippsed that as prophet(pbuh) not himself did that....

however ...its include ...

*** child birth**
**circumsion etc etc....*

so...only Daff is allowed at these happy occasions ONLY....

Once Abdullah ibne Umar...one of the most pious and great scholar of quran and hadees...and very beloved sahabi of prophet(pbuh) heard the voice of "BANSARI"....he instantly....put his fingers in his both ears..and after sometime ..asked his servant..is voice has vanished...and servant said yes...then he put down his fingers and said that...obnce i was with prophet(pbuh) and i saw him doing the same thing.....

so...its means that bansari also present at that time...but prophet(pbuh) put his fingers in his hands ...so clewar cut forbidance of Bansari also.....

So ..it bansari even not allowed...how comes Guitar...Piano...amd modern electronic best sound and stereo systems...its out of logic ....

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Re: The concept of being Stoned to Death

thats what our religion is..whatever you say..stone to death for truth and love..every sucess for lie and hatered…u decide

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ehat does 'holy book' day