I don’t feel comfortable responding in that blog.
I am just curious to kow why we can’t teach our children to sit for 10-15mins during the salat time. I am not talking about khutba/speeches, etc but the actual salat time.
I know children age 2 and above are very much capable of sitting down for that amount. In schools children sit at least for that amount of time during circle time, group projects, special presentations, etc. We had in school field trips where children sat for literally 30 during the presentation time. Yes, work really hard preparing children from day 1 for these various activities and children do respond. We set boundaries for children from day 1 and keep redirecting them until they get (which they get daily fast) it, why can’t we set appropriate boundaries for the salat time and reinforce them.
PS. I am not making any personal attacks, so please refrain from making any personal attacks if you don’t agree with someone’s point of view. I am sure we all can have a civilized discussion.
Re: Teaching appropriate behavior to children for salat time.
Not everyone is happy to allow their children to run amok during salat time. I, too, have seen small children, age 3-4, sit for that amount. There is even a lady a our masjid, who I usually see, who brings her daughters, age 4 and 6, with her. They sit next to their mum without disrupting one. The younger one doesn’t actually pray but she does sit there quietly.
Re: Teaching appropriate behavior to children for salat time.
Last night I hosted iftar at the masjid. While setting up, my boys were all helping transport items to the men’s side and other tasks and someone commented on how fast they’ve grown up..the exact words were “mujhay yaad hain tum kaisay kaisay theeno ke peechay bhaagti thi…tumsay chipkay rehtay thay aur ab mashallah kaisain kaam karrain”…
I was outnumbered, having 3 kids in less then 2 years lol. I worked very hard to train my kids to stick by me, regardless if it was the masjid, grocery store or mall. My eldest was taught from day on to one of the twins’ hands and then on to me or my purse strap with the other if we were walking, or to hold on to the double stroller at all times. Same with at namaz time. My kids have grown up this masjid, we go on a weekly basis, spend every weekend of Ramadan there at and at namaz time all three would stick right by side or my husband’s at all times.
I don’t know that I did anything extraordinary, it was more like just our way of life…I had little to no help so from day one the expectation was set for all three to stick by me at all times. I’m sure they would fidget and get restless, but run amuck…never.
Now, the kids who do run around and disrupt others, go through purses (yes, it happens!) etc, I don’t know…I try not point fingers at people’s parenting styles but c’mon…
I think consistency is the key. I don’t think it’s right to tell people not to bring their toddlers or young kids to the masjid, but sometimes, a little common sense and effort on the parents’ part goes a long way.
Re: Teaching appropriate behavior to children for salat time.
My dad was just lamenting this the other day about taraweeh. He was saying how the kids that are old enough to know better spend their entire time in the masjid running, yelling, screaming and causing a big ruckus which makes it such a disruptive experience for all of the adults praying. It’s a shame that some parents refuse to discipline their kids.
Re: Teaching appropriate behavior to children for salat time.
Last night, during Taraweh, I saw a mother who had brought her 2 children with her. One was itty bitty, probably a couple months, if that much. Her daughter was around 1-2.
The mom put the baby to sleep after iftaar and asked one of the ladies who wasn’t praying to watch the baby while she prays. She took her daughter and sat her next to her while she prayed. Her daughter went in and out of sleep while her mom prayed, but she sat right next to her mom and didn’t move or disturb her mom or the woman on the other side of her.
She scared her self awake cuz she jerked forward and almost hit her face on the floor. She started crying, but covered her mouth! It was the abolute cutest thing I have ever seen.
It was absolutely amazing seeing this tiny little girl knowing she had to stay quiet while her mom (and everyone else around) prayed.
I think we can absolutely teach children to sit quietly during salat time. However that teachinh/training is a spectrum as you point out as well. you start on day one and dont expect that perfect behavior do you? there is a lot of redirecting and time outs and explaining … over time kids learn. We all also know that kids learn at various speeds. we also all know that abilities of our children can vary … there are kids with ADD, Autism, Aspergers that require particular patience, attention and time to teach …
my point i guess is that one can not have a uniform expectation from all kids to behave just so in a given situation.
I can see some peoples point about not taking kids to such gathering until they know to behave right ( and I personally do that) BUT if we dont take them … that day one never happens, that repeat exposure and repetition of whats expected is missing.
what was surprising to me in that blog was not how the child shouldve been taught but rather an adults’ response to a childs misbehavior and many others dismissal of that behavior. :bummer:
perhaps im oversensitive to the issue. I see tons of kids in a days work who sustain significant injuries from a seemingly benign fall. their tears and hurt is painful enough even for me that I cant fathom anyone deliberately creating a situation to possibly cause such hurt.
I was also not kidding when i said such behavior from an adult is legally prosecutable … at least in USA it is.
anyhow … this was a really good teaching/learning topic for me. I truly hadn’t realized how strongly people felt about toddlers not perfectly behaved.
im definitely going to be much less inclined to taking my daughter to masjid now … in case she goes out of character and misbehaves.
Re: Teaching appropriate behavior to children for salat time.
I don’t necessarily think all kids age 2 and up are capable of sitting by their moms for that long. Perhaps kids a little older than that yes, but 2? Seriously? My daughter is 20 months and she has been extremely active since the day she was born. I cannot get her to sit still for even 1 milisecond if my life depended on it. At home she is constantly moving and when we go out she is the same way.
Yes, I think that when kids are old enough to understand, parents should make an effort to discipline their kids (especially in the masjid environment) but what I think is MORE important than that is to re-think whether you should even be bringing your kids to the mosque in the first place.
My husband has gone for every taravi so far this ramadan. I have not even gone for one. Why? Because I refuse to take my 20 month old daughter there when I know that it is next to impossible for her to sit through 1.5 hours of prayers without getting restless, fussy, extremely active etc. Why would I do that to her? Why would I disturb the peace of others?
I really don’t understand why mothers bring their small children to taravi. A few years of not going for taravi is not going to make a huge difference. Do whatever ibadat you want to do at home. It is not compulsory on mothers anyway.
Teaching appropriate behavior to children for salat time.
^ we’re not just talking about taraweeh, it’s about namaz in jamat in general. I also never stayed with my toddlers for taraweeh, hell, my kids are 9 & 11, and we still don’t.
but for zuhr, Jummah namaz, maghrib etc, yes I I introduced my kids and got them familiar with masjid ettiquette from toddler age onwards.
Re: Teaching appropriate behavior to children for salat time.
All kids are born different with different sets of personalities. I’ve been babysitting and kids from the same mother can have wildly unique responses to the same discipline. Some kids will sit and be patient, some will have so much energy they just can’t sit still. Someone who has low energy kids will never understand how much pent up energy another’s child can have. So based on my experience I can’t judge someone for having crazy kids (although I do know the difference between mothers who try and mothers who don’t care). And all of us weren’t born perfect ready for social interaction either. For some people it’s not much effort and for others its constant trial.
And I don’t go for taraweeh with my mother because she says she cannot sit still till 1am. Lmao, talk about role reversal.
Re: Teaching appropriate behavior to children for salat time.
^ well for going to the mosque in general I would say the same thing.
Every kid is different. All toddlers don’t automatically develop the ability to sit still for 15 mins by their mothers at the age of 2. Each kid is different. If you have an easier, calmer kid then sure it will be easier for you to train them to sit still and remain silent but some of us mothers have extremely high needs children who are very hyper and active and not to mention extremely fussy. If you are a mother with this type of kid, please do your kid and others a favour and stay home. I’ve NEVER taken my daughter to the mosque and I probably won’t for quite some time. I’m not even sure yet that I will be able to go for Eid prayers. I’m ok with that. It is a short period of my life…I have the rest of my life to be able to go to the mosque InshAllah.
My kid would never sit at one place. Do I not teach him masjid etiquettes??? I do, I am very strict too about it, yet he still.doesn’t listen. I go to masjid a lot, ever since he was a baby. No matter how annoying my kids have gotten, I’ve never had anyone who wasn’t willing to help me so that I could pray. Kids will be kids. I still take mine to masjid despite him doing all kind of batamizi. If I don’t take him, he’ll never learn.
Nothing personal but you did blog about your kid throwing a bottle in a fountain. He is a kid and expected to do sone shararteen. Dosroon ke kareen to bad parenting, apnay kareen to ha ha.
Teaching appropriate behavior to children for salat time.
I think their is a huge difference between a consciousness parent who knows their child is boisterous/high spirited/hard to handle and clueless parents who just don’t care to make an effort to set expectations…the latter is the bone of contention here
Re: Teaching appropriate behavior to children for salat time.
it all comes down to…kids are humans too…they are beautiful, innocent, developing individuals… it is our job to protect, nurture, and guide them…not just discipline them to feel proud of our parenting
Re: Teaching appropriate behavior to children for salat time.
Spiral, I have not called any child batamezz. All I am saying is that children of that age are capable of sitting for 10-15 and I have observed them in other environments. Yes, every child is different, however, we can make accommodations to meet their needs.
Rest my son throwing a bottle in the fountain, I was not proud or found that acceptable behavior. Actually I was pretty upset at him. The blog was about the statement he made.
When I take my son to masjid, no one comes and help me either or gives me an opportunity to pray. However, I had to make a very conscious effort to make sure he is not running around during the salat time. My prayer has been interrupted many times, especially when he was even younger. Every time, he tried walking away, I would pick him and bring him back.
Initially, I had to define a space for my son and adults around him. So people around us would know that they are not going to pick him up and put him in front of me. And he will understand that the assign space is his and he needs to stay there. I still do that, I do make sure people around us understand they are not going to move him just because he is a toddler. Some children need more visual description of space. I have a friend whose 3 yr old had difficulty with understanding what space means, we used a small rug to define space for her. Every time, she moved away from the rug, she was escorted back.
And no, i am not saying, I have all the tricks up my sleeves or I have the best behaved kids. I have learned most of the stuff from watching other parents at masjid and other places.
Re: Teaching appropriate behavior to children for salat time.
True!
The other jummah we were at the masjid, this little kids was constantly fighting with another one over some marker for the white board during khutabah. The mother of the older kid didn’t even turn around to see what is going on. The mother of the little kid went to white board, shrugged her shoulders, came back, and started talking to some other ladies.
Re: Teaching appropriate behavior to children for salat time.
Preparing the child really helps. I have worked with children with special needs, little things that are out of ordinary throw them off. We had to take baby steps with them, before taking them to big crowds, we had to prepare them in small, less intimidating crowd. Initially, it requires lot of redirection which means parents have to mentally prepare themselves for interruptions during their prayers. I take my son to jummah throughout the year as much as possible. It helps because the crowd is normally small/less intimidating in other months and helps prepare the child when the crowd is big especially during Ramzan and eids.
I have seen children accidentally tripping, especially when the crowd goes in rukoh or sajda. Another reason why we should try that our kids are not running during the salat time, especially b/w the rows.
As far as the blog OP is concerned, that behavior is unacceptable and you are right, he could be sued for it.
This reminds me, I have seen older kids bully little one during salat time. This one time, I couldn’t resist and ended up intervening during the salat.
Re: Teaching appropriate behavior to children for salat time.
There appears to be two camps. One camp expects orderliness from 2 to 4 year old. That camp also expects mothers to not go to the function - father’s appear to be exempt.
The other camp recognizes children’s behavior span a wide spectrum. Even when trained, the inherent differences manifest themselves. Some in this camp rightly point out it is insane to expect children of that age to sit still for an extended period. When they have no clue what is going on. Some in this camp don’t subscribe to the notion a woman should give up her masjid visit. And I agree. Those who don’t mind giving up the Masjid visit till the kids know better - good for them. Those who would like to attend the Masjid have every right to attend. To me it is the adults that are behaving like kids here.
If indeed a parent needs to stay back, the mother and father could alternate each year. Absent that, no one is in a position to ask the mother to give up masjid visits. That is each woman’s choice.
I see same behavior in temples. Some irritable person giving that look to kids. A perpetual frown on their face. Just do your worship. And don’t judge other kids and their parents.
Re: Teaching appropriate behavior to children for salat time.
PS. last week, my son wanted to stay with his father during salat and he did for both salat and iftar/dinner. However, the expectations were same, he is going to stay with his father and not walk away. When our son was done with dinner he wanted to play in the playground, my husband made sure he is in his sight, my husband ate his iftar/dinner by the playground.
I don’t have anything against women or children attending masjid. I think we can prepare both ourselves (as parents) and our children better for the experience.
ps. before anyone jumps on me, I am not praising my husband or child, or our parenting. I am just sharing that my husband has helped on several occasions when he is with us which gives me an opportunity to pray and eat without any interruptions.
it is our job to protect, nurture, and guide them…not just discipline them to feel proud of our parenting