Taliban Lashing Girl publically in Swat

Society Religion & Philosophy
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You're halfish right, such stuff would maybe degrade every religion, every race, every type of human, although its a huge unsubstantiated claim to make. But lets say that is true.

Would you defend those other degraded religions, races, human beings who did that violence? Wouldnt those degraded religions, races and human beings deserve their diminished standing.

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The funny part to me aside from this sad video is the labelling, the name calling, and ignorant comments people are passing without having ANY knowledge of the context of this video.
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Some things dont need a lot of context. I post a video of me torturing a dog, then putting it on fire while its alive. Yes you might be curious to know what the context was, but I hope you wouldnt need more context to put a value judgement on the video.

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[quote="Crescent, post:6, topic:198298"]

Lashing is part of Islam, no doubt in that.

Why do people find it hard to believe this fact, and argue about it.

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Re: Taliban Lashing Girl publically in Swat

^ Its when the lashing is done unjustly, not in accordance with Islam, that people will argue about it, maam.

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Unless you can prove that she was truly a fornicator, rather than just an "alleged" fornicator as you yourself have admitted, I would advise that you, as a muslim, distance yourself from this video, as supporting it might very well lead to more mismanagement of sharia execution, for which the Taliban have been famous for over a decade now as documented thoroughly with years of brutality and unjust leadership over a hostage society.

Secondly, if your daughter was caught winking at the boy next door, I wonder if you would be ok with this same kind of punishment, done EXACTLY the same way (i.e. being held down by men, burqa raised to expose the butt-side of the shalwaar, and thrashed over the butt with a crowd of MEN, and only men, standing around to watch for their entertainment)?

Timepass - February
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Re: Taliban Lashing Girl publically in Swat

^ people like u r so biased that it skews their perspective

i am not defending EVERYTHING the talibs do ....only defending that public flogging for someone who is convicted of fornication is well within shariah and those who find it repungent shud be questioning Rasolallah

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sorry but thats not the right analogy my dear friend
r u saying that public flogging is an extreme punishment ?

forget this particular case ...neither of us know who is guilty or innocent in this

Na Kapray Hi Badlay Na Haal Acha Hai
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Re: Taliban Lashing Girl publically in Swat

[quote]
Secondly, if your daughter was caught winking at the boy next door, I wonder if you would be ok with this same kind of punishment, done EXACTLY the same way (i.e. being held down by men, burqa raised to expose the butt-side of the shalwaar, and thrashed over the butt with a crowd of MEN, and only men, standing around to watch for their entertainment)?
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trust me i wud be whipping her then she is getting married next day...but not in this way

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Re: Taliban Lashing Girl publically in Swat

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as supporting it might very well lead to more mismanagement of sharia execution, for which the Taliban have been famous for over a decade now as documented thoroughly with years of brutality and unjust leadership over a hostage society.

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true ...i wud even say that even their war against soviets was purely banditry and nothing else
but why dont u show the same kind of hostility to secular rulers( bhuttos, musharrafs) who totally abandon shariah without even the pretence of following it
does islam preach "all or nothing" principle when it comes to practising it

Tum say pehlay
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Re: Taliban Lashing Girl publically in Swat

Few Points

  1. Once a man came and said that i have committed 'Sin' , apply islamic rling on me...Prophet(pbuh) not answered and then prayers time came , he also prayed with Prophet(pbuh) and sahabas then after repeated the same sentence..Prophet(pbuh) replied ..havent you prayed with us..go your sin is deleted

2.Once a shepherd boy came to admit adultery and asked for punishment..Prophet(pbuh)3 times turned his head other ways and 3 times said..go away and ask Allah for forgiveness said..You should ask forgiveness as Allah is Merciful and forgives but if some matter comes to me..them I ma bound to implement the law.Wish that you have not came to me and asked Allah for forgiveness

3.Once a woman in Medina did adultery , came to Prophet(pbuh) and asked for punishment...Prophet(pbuh) as usual 2 or 3 times said go aqaw and ask Allah for forgiveness..she not went and keep on insisting...Prophet(pbuh) then said...OK..come to me after child is born..she came after child with child in her lap and ask for punishment..Prophet(pbuh) said...feed him with your milk uptill 2.5 yaers ..then come..she came with piece of braed and said ..look..now he can eat braed alongwith milk...Prophet(pbuh) now compelled to punish her

After punishment ..Prophet(pbuh) said to Sahabas..You know..I tried to save her at ever occasion ...so that she may not come in future,..but she keep on coming to me .If her Repentance is spreaded over 70 sinners of Madina..it would enough to take those 70 to Jannat

  1. Adultery Punishment for unmarried is 70 lashes while she was recieved only 35

In Hadees there is written on Day of Judgement Allah will ask a judge why he lowered punishment of Allah, he will say..due to mercy..Allah will say..You are more Merciful than Me ...and ask angels to take him to Hell

5.Only State can give such punishment in presence of Qazi appointed by Government , no individual,group can do that

6.If 4 witnesses who have seen 'penetration' not provided and punishment or even blame on girl is put...all those witnessse and who gave punishment themselves be lashed as written in Quran ..i think 80 lashes..not sure . Prophet(pbuh) used to ask specifically , have you seen like bowl in the well or a thread in the hole of needle ..means how strict the 'standards' to see such things otherwise such punishment CANNOT be given

  1. If at any stage , woman says , she does not commit that , punishment CANNOT be given. Its must for Qazi to withdraw this case .

8.All great schoalsr agree that woman cannot be punished in front of peopel but in a room so that her dignity is not ruined

9.4 witnesses must be pure , pious , good reputed ,if anyone of them is at the least not upto this standard , punishment cannot be given

  1. virtually the standards set by Prophet(pbuh) are so its nearly impossible to give such punishment ' Practically' . Noone is standing with Camera or 4 ' Namazi Parhez Gar Maulvi' there to observe such things at the moment

  2. Last but not the least , Prophet(pbuh) most of the times said...go and ask Allah for your sin , He avoided the punishment at the most.

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Re: Taliban Lashing Girl publically in Swat

^ Thank-you for sharing.

Das Reich, I think everyone reading your comments can see exactly where your heart and intentions are. I have no further arguing to do with someone who refuses to discuss a topic, as discussing involves seeing things from another person's perspective as well as one's own, and being fair, and being reasonable, and discussing the religion with light of the Quran, and as you can see hadith and stories of the Prophet's life as posted here, none of which you are willing to do. And I cannot keep discussing these topics with a person whose sense of justice for a women who 'WINKS' at another man is to beat her yourself and get her married right away, all of which by the way, is in no way Islamic. I would request that you advertise these opinions as your own, rather than as Islam's as such things just make the rest of us look bad, and plunge our civilization into further ruin. Thanks.

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Re: Taliban Lashing Girl publically in Swat

Taliban are only representatives of one of the sects of Islam. If you want sharia, you need to provide 73 Qazis (representing each sect) in each of the courts you open.

The Nifaz-e-shariat-e-Taliban is a joke. It is the Saudi shariat exported with the hatred ideology and petro dollar.

Call you may, It is not the shariat-e-Mohammadi (PBUH) who was created as Rehmat-ul-Alameen.

This is not the system of Allah, the only true God whose first revelation through His greatest Messenger (PBUH) was to "read". Talibans, blowing up schools cannot possibly be adherents of this divine religion.

No matter how many times Munnawar Hussain and other fanatics on this forum cry out drone attack, rape, etc it won't be enough to change the fact that those things have nothing to do with this incident

As Mufti-e-Azam Rafi Usmani very rightly said that drone attacks by outsiders are absolutely wrong but that doesnt justify killing your fellow muslims and countrymen.

Shame on you Taliban APOLOGISTS, may you rot in hell with them.

~~~Missing Someone~~~
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Are you suggesting we shouldn't have any punishments in first place then?

Please refer to the verse I quoted below:

I sort of agree, but with Swat agreement, hasn't governement delegated their authority to them?

Can you please show related Quranic verse? Thanks.

Please refer to the verse below.

What good would be the punishment if it is observed by already pure, pious, good reputed people? I believe 'public' punishment are for a reason for the public to see and stay away from sins/crimes.

24.2: The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.

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Re: Taliban Lashing Girl publically in Swat

I can't believe the day has come when I have to sit here and fight with more than just a few "muslim" men on women's rights in Islam and over whether the Taleban of all parties does its business in truly an Islamic way. Even most Pakistanis will agree that the Saudi method is not necessarily Islamic, and often their use of brute force deviates from Islam. Shocking that the Taliban atrocities are even being defended here.

Allow me to explain once again - the Quran is not saying you should have a public execution of the punishment, rather tha here need to be a set of witnesses. Big difference. When you sign a business contract between two parties, you need witnesses right? But that's not the same thing as saying that the business deal must be televised for the entire world to watch, or that you need to sign it under broad daylight in the open with an entire village watching on. Two different things. The idea that things should be done with witnesses is pretty pervasive in the Quran - even a nikkah requires witnesses, but does not mean that a nikkah has to be done under an open tree with a circle of people around the couple witnessing the nikkah - that's ridiculous. So why does this not apply the same way in your mind to a punishment for zina?

You know why? Because the Pakistani mentality says that when it comes to anything sexual or romantic or gossip-worthy, everyone and their mom has a right to put their nose into other people's businesses just to have a good show.

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Re: Taliban Lashing Girl publically in Swat

PCG dont worry. This has dented Taleban's public support. by all accounts, the public reaction is pretty negative and the jackass terrorists are issuing statements that contradict themselves in the same sentence. inshallah I hope this will jolt more people into abandoning the vague romanticism they attach to the two bit thugs because they supposedly fight Amreeka.

we have a few supporters here, but take a poll on GS today and see how many would support this kind of barbarism.

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Wrong, Taliban are not representative of any sect of Islam.

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Re: Taliban Lashing Girl publically in Swat

Ehtesab - I don't think the government has officially signed the agreement ceding to the Taliban the region or the establishment of Sharia law. I think he's sitting on it for the time being, but the Taliban have gone ahead to do the full takeover.

At any rate, you guys are acting like the rest of us Pakistanis are not muslims.

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Re: Taliban Lashing Girl publically in Swat

Few more points

  1. There is ABSOLUTELY not Black and White situation in Islamic punishment laws.ther are always Grey Areas according to situation, age, circumstances,reasons of crime, condition/gender/excuse of the man/woman who do the sin/mistake

  2. Umar(ra) lifted up the hand cutting punishment of quran when during his era for one year, ther was no rain , severe drought and when Amr bin Al-Aaas(ra) and Ammer Muavia(ra) sent thousands and hundreds of miles long carvan of food etc in Medina, i think in 18 hijri. Reason is stealing if in this era done due to poverty and punishment on that is not given

  3. Allam Ghamdi was saying yesterday on Dunya Tv that Islamic Law of Quran are just mentioned but Procedural Laws are not.Its not mention anyhwhere in Quran HOW to give and implement it.Its totally depend upon Caliph , Qazi, Ruler,Parliment etc of that time to carry out specific punishment APPROPRIATELY according to needs of time and age. Variations in Procedure are perfectly allowed as they are not set in Quran or Hadees .

  4. Faqeehs of islamic history used to tal on HYPOTHETICAL situations just that in future if something happens what to do.One was that if a man and woman both nude are locked in a room and not allowed to leacve unless committed Adultery even then punishment would not be applied on it. I think Imam Malik is of the view that Arousal in man cannot be done by him Unintentionally so mman should be punished but other great faqeehs including Abu Hanifa says...They were forced to lock in a room..although this Act is done ..but punishment CANNOT be given.Its just similar to our present Court Laws that Qatl-e-Amd ** (murder by will ) is not equal to **Qatl-e-Khata ( murder by not will or by mistake) . Judge can hang the first one but not the later in ANY case.He can give him some years punishment but not death sentence.So its not mean that they is just Black White Implementation of Islamic ruling in every case.Thats why learned Qazis and scholasr can become qazis and judge, not cave era Talibans mullas who have not even read whats the Fiqah , Logic and 4 and other great imams stance of all these issues

  5. Umar(ra)( once as usual roaming in Medina streets at night , passed by houses and heard some suspicious voices of a man and woman.he climbed the wall and saw a man sitting with a girl and wine in front of them. Umar(ra) shouted..O you sinner..you think Allah would put curtain on your act.Man replied..O Caliph...plz. stop..I have done 1 mistake..you have done 3. Allah says ..come into houses by doors,you came from wall.Allah says do not investigate in other people affairs ..you secretly did that and voilated my privacy.Allah says keep good thinking about momins..you did it opposite.

Umar(ra) bowed down his head and said.I ws at mistake and said sorry to the man.MAn also promised not to indulge in adultery and drinking in future.Umar(ra) quietly went away

  1. Golden Rule from Umar(ra) example....State or Government is not there to spy people in thier bed-rooms and other cheap ways.As long as someone is not doing ANY SIN publicly or admitting it publicly State cannot even touch you.Thst why Prophet(pbuh) time and again said..If any sin happens, repent to Allah but if matter comes to me...I am bound to implement the limits of Allah and his orders

  2. Quran wherever any punishment is mentioned its the UPPER and EXTREME limits.Thast why Prophet(pbuh) was not start stoning or lashing sinners when they came to him.He used to 2 or 3 times turn his face and used to say him/her to go away and ask Allah for forgiveness.By Quran he was bound to punish him/her on VERY FIRST CONFESSION but he never did it.Woman who was stonned was also came to him herself. Nobody took het to Prophet(pbuh).Means there is Hard and Fast rule. He even released sinners, adulters but applied this EXTREME LIMIT of PUNSHMENT only to those who keep on insisting , came to him or did it publicly that can lure others etc etc

8.Once a beautiful woman came to Anas bin MAlik(ra) and said ..I have committed Adultery and after birth killed the child .Is there any chance of my repentance.Anas(ra) said No.She went away weeping and said....Alas, this beauty was made only for Fire !

Anas(ra) came to Prophet(pbuh) and told all this to him..Prophet(pbuh) became angry and recited to him some verse of Quran descring Allah Rehmat account and his Mercy.Prophet(pbuh) then ordered Anas(ra) to find that woman and told her about that.Anas(ra) went and told that repentance can omit her sin.She became happy and thanked him for this

**
@ ehtsab**

Most of incidents and reasons are quoted from Tafseer of Maulana Maudoodi which i read few years ago.If you have a chance to read his beautiful Discussion on Sura Noor in Tafheem-ul-Quran , you would enjoy it. 30 40 pages full of complete and such a highly learned debate and discussion covering every issue about this thing , views of classical and modern scholars , rulings and accounts from Prophet(pbuh) time of implemeting all these laws

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Re: Taliban Lashing Girl publically in Swat

anyone who has even a hint of support for this humiliated, sick, inhumane behavior, how would you feel if Taliban do this to your mother or sister. All of you sitting at behind the computer supporting this, I really hope Taliban shows who they are to your own family and then we will see how much support they get from you. I don’t care what these women did..heck even if they did Zina or whatever, who the F**** are these mulla Talibans to humilate a women in public. It should be between her parents and within her family issues…some outside man who are standing there to enjoy this view. I am just suprised at some sick minded people here who actually trying to defend this behavior or thinking that this would a fake video. Can you not listen to her cry and screams :rolleyes:

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In my opinion they represent the Wahabi/Salafi/Deobandi sect of Islam.

Even if you disagree they are in a way a sect of Islam. They have their own Fiqh, interpretation of Quran etc.

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No they do not represetn Wahabi or Deobandi sect of Islam. They represent delusional beings who want power, money and influence.