Taliban are Kharijites?

Society Religion & Philosophy
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You need to understand theres shades of gray. Some Muslims are terrorists. I dont share their beliefs or methods. Therefore I am not. The world is not a dichotomy between "All muslims are terrorists" and "Taleban are not related to violence and extremism". That is incredibly simplistic.

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Hamas, Hezb, Taliban are all resistance forces trying to kick out invaders in their country.

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Lets stick with Taleban shall we? Specifically in Pakistan. Who exactly are the foreign invaders in Swat? The frontier corps?

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However, the world 'Taliban' has been used to ascribe to any rural atrocities that come out of that area.

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Very often, that label has been ascribed to them because thats the label they ascribe to themselves.

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Honour killings exists in Karachi, is Karachi a "taliban" state?

A pakistani lahori father killed his daughter for not wearing hijaab (supposedly) here in Toronto, is he a Taliban?

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No. Not unless these people in Karachi or Lahore self-identify as Taleban, and are clearly part of that organization, and are acting under its organizational structure.

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See the failed logic here?

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Absolutely I do.

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No matter what peace of information you get out of the news from that area, everyone assumes its the taliban. We have problems with Pakistani people, does that make Pakistani people and creed abnormal or deviant?

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On what basis do YOU assume its not the taleban? You have your grand view of them and dismiss any information to the contrary as a necessary product of almost retardation level stupidity. People have access to the same very basic mental processing facilities you are exhibiting ("maybe its a criminal"). Please dont insult others by assuming they are necessarily stupid.

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If you think all taliban are bad, then you also believe all muslims are terrorists.

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No.

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Read yvonne ridley's first hand experience with the ACTUAL taliban, not your everyday pashtun mafia who owns land.

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Right... pick the one hostage who makes it back alive. How about the polish engineer? Should we attach his head back on and ask him if he liked the ACTUAL taliban?

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Also, if you have time really investigate beyond the filth of the media (who is on the SIDE of an UNJUST war AGAINST afghanistan, Iraq, AND palestine btw) then also take a look at a PBS documentary called, "Women in Afghanistan".

Its a more unbiased (surprisingly) liberal view of a FEMINIST who went to afghanistan to investigate the education of girls UNDER taliban regime.

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Ah so some western coverage of Taleban ISNT biased. Lemme guess which one that is. The one that meets your worldview right?

I can probably find coverage of taleban on PBS that isnt so flattering. Would you accept that or is that some sort of conspiracy?

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Re: Taliban are Kharijites?

Crescent, lets walk outside the square of Shia or Sunni and think as a human too.

Hezbollah is a peoples' movement, made by people, run by people in defence of their land against the aggressors who happen to be #1 enemy of Islam. Hezbollah are democracticaly elected political orgn. FYI not only in Lebanon but the whole Arab world it happens to be the most popular orgn. They do not kill their fellow countrymen be it even a jew or a christian infact Israel hates Labanese Christians just like she hates a Leb Shia or a Sunni coz they all support and love Hezbollah.

Hamas is peoples' movement, tired of being deprived of basic human rights and needs for over 50 years. This org is democraticaly elected and run by the local people. They are basically defending the slump that they have been dumped in for the past 2 generations.

Now u r welcome to dispute with me on any of the facts i have stated. i hope u can c that both Hamas and Hezbollah are democraticaly elected representatives of the people fighting the "outide enemy" or the invading forces. u say that Taliban are fighting the invading forces! what a piece of BS that is. Could u give me the # of "foreign forces" killed by Taliban compared with the fellow Muslims killed? These clowns talk abt Shariat, some1 plz ask them then where is the Qisas for all the innocent Muslims they kill everyday by "mistake"? bro plz dont insult islam and take it to such a low level that now Jahil Talibans are the 1s who r fighting for our religion.

Its such fallacy to compare Taliban with orgnstns such as Hezbollah or Hamas. Both Hezbollah and Hamas actually stand up for human rights! This is why every human right loving person of the world loves them. Whereas the gang called Taliban is the opposite. That is when General Secretary of Hezbollah of Seyyed Hassan Nasrallah was asked about Taliban, he denounced Taliban in the strongest worlds (and u cant say he views r biased because his orgsn is above these silly games and Hezbollah is the one that has trained Sunni Hamas and is their strongest ally). I dont think Hamas, although being Sunni, see this gang any differently either.

My question is now to you about Pakistani Taliban:

1)are they the choice of the people? what gives them the mandate?
2)who are they fighting?
3)what r they fighting for?

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u are right but what i am saying is that we cannot base our opinion just on our personal experiences …this man hates alams, balck clothes , even ali and hussain as his world was turned upside down because of this event …all of a sudden this average guy his been turned into such a big suppporter of yazid

btw he is not my friend i dont associate with such riff raff :snooty: ]

Timepass- December 2012
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obviously personal experiences can sway your judgements to harsher generalizations than you might otherwise make.

that said your friend would be absolutely right to hate mobs and religiously extremism based on his personal experience.

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Re: Taliban are Kharijites?

taliban are kinda like SS of this war
they are determined , ruthless they comit atrocities and people are keen to publicize them and condemn them ...yet the equally brutal atrocities against them go largely unnoticed while their opposition is painted in rosy colors.

Just as allies after WW2 were willing to overlook the shocking barbarity of the french/italian/greek terrorists .[term envogue being resistence] similarly most criminals from northern alliance are now forgiven for their roles in the civil war

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obviously personal experiences can sway your judgements to harsher generalizations than you might otherwise make.
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exactly and that seems to be the case with our Nusairee

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that said your friend would be absolutely right to hate mobs and religiously extremism based on his personal experience

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he is NOT my friend ....

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Re: Taliban are Kharijites?

oho.. sorry i meant the person you know!

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Re: Taliban are Kharijites?

^ thanks , he kinda like a distant relative but since he knows that i have such repulsion towards his nasibi tendencies he likes to "debate" with me regarding religious issues .....
after losing his shop he has become more "religious " no more indian music /movies !

Timepass- December 2012
69


I second that


respected brother, Allah Ta'ala tells us in the Qur'aan that when a news come to us we should verify it. Also, He (Subhanhau Wa Ta'ala) tells us that we shouldn't be suspicious of another believer if we don't have any evidence to prove it. As far concerning, Taliban being "wahabi", there's big difference between their 'aqeedah and the "wahabi" scholars have spoken against them. Why would so called "wahabis" want to be called wahabi, when 1) "al-Wahab" is one of the names of Allah Ta'ala 2) they are not wahabi. Unless you can explain how so?


no, they are not; I hope you at leats know the meanings of the labels

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Amen

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I thought the Sunni (read Wahabi) State of Saudi Arabia was the ultimate paragon of a shariah state.

Iranians as a nation can do what they choose to do. All revolutions were blood soaked, Iranian, French, Bolshevik etc.... that is the definition of a revolution. The Iraq war was imposed on Iran by the combine power of Sunni Arab state and Western powers.

That doesn't mean I want to follow Iranian model.

As far as a just system is concerned, all systems are man made. What you will impose as shariah will be your interpretation of God's system. In a Taliban shariah state that you want, Pakistan's population will be significantly reduced since all of us in disagreement will be executed.

Btw dude have you been out there. Socialist Capitalism has come very close to Islamic welfare state concept. There is affordable and equitable justice system, care of those too old or too young or too sick or helpless to themselves. A guaranteed food and health care for all regardless of caste, creed or color.

I believe given the choice between an honest and fair, cost effective and quick justice system along with safety nets for the vulnerable against a state that provides none of this but chops off hands and mandates niqaab and hijaab and beards, my choice will be clear. What would you choose, is the question?

P.S. mark my words and ask Allah on the day of judgement of what is the preferable of the two. You just may be surprised if you have chosen the latter.

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Al Wahab is a name of Allah but this is not why Wahabis are labelled as Wahabis. It is because they follow the teachings of a certain Abdul Wahab who along with Abdul Saud with British support and guidance laid the foundation of the Kingdom of Saudia Arabia.

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Who are they to decide that a muslim is nominal, moderate, or secular? Are they God’s police? They hold Islamic Justice court? And Who are they to decide that a moderate muslim is bad and an orthodox muslim is good. and who gave them the right to behead any muslim or discriminate against him or declare him Kafir on the basis of their self-created definations? This is sheer lunacy.

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Re: Taliban are Kharijites?

^AikPakistani, lets say even if they were God's police. Why arent they killing the real enemies of God? I wud love to c the day when this group of junglees actually kill a single Israeli soldier. How cud they when US, Israel and Saudia are their real abba.

If Israel is too far then kill the enemies of the people. Why do they kill innocent ppl? Why do they hate the girls who want education? This filthy group is enemy of the whole humanity. Its clearly playing into the hands of the foreign forces and doesnt have any agenda of its own. This group lacks basic education, how absurd for some ppl to believe they fight for God! These idiots r compulsive killers. I have seen for myself that when they got nobody to kill, the kill each other for as petty thing as a packet of niswar!!!!!

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Exactly.

Hazarah's are not angels, they lost a war, and cannot accept that. Thats a basis for a society in Afghanistan.

Shias need to look at his neutrally than to let their emotions drive them to some other conclusions. Critical thinking is crucial here.

As for the comparison between Hezb as an elected party, that was bull crap.

I am sorry Nuss, but it didn't satisfy a NEUTRAL view on the party, since the west still condemns both Hezb and Hamas for many atrocities and international violations.

Don't get me wrong, I support Hezb and Hamas full fledge, but you are ignoring the international bandwagon against them, and focusing on the shia perspective of these resistance forces.

If you say Taliban have not been invaded, you're 10 years behind in your contemporary history lessons.

@Ravage

I have never denied, or supported the movements WITHIN the regime of the Taliban and in the tribal areas of afghanistan AND pakistan who are involved in deviant and genuinely radical ideologies. Who do promote killing of non-muslims, who would clearly be so radical as to go as far as doing anything in the name of Islam.

However, here is the problem.

THAT is not the taliban ideology as a governing power. Has anyone even read up on the history of taliban, BEFORE US and NATO forces invaded the already poor country?

By the looks of the posts here, no.

As for providing references to Yvonne ridley, I would take her word over someone who has never even met the taliban. How can people accept amanpur's word over ridley's? THats the failed logic that surpasses me.

There are movements in pakistan who promote killing of innocent, and its justified in their creed to do so as long as they are supporting the US or the west. Trust me, I've seen and heard these people. Most of this has been influenced by certain groups from the middle east, primarily Saudi Arabia.

After the soviet war, many saudis and egyptians migrated to Afghanistan to infiltrate the taliban, they were guests, but are now a large part of the foreign wing of the taliban, and they do have extreme ideologies but its not the TALIBAN's.

They are totally lost and out of the view, and if THEY commit a crime, it doesn't become the ideology of the taliban. The creed they have been carrying out ever since the soviet, hazarah wars.

When a villager sees his dead family in afghanistan due to drone attacks, and takes out soldiers of NATO and US armies, he is labelled a taliban for his "Ferocious and unjust attack on the armies". Try explaining to him the ideology of what is right and wrong, he has no morals at this point. HE is also not a taliban, he is doing what he feels is just for his loss.

What surprises me the most is how people justify US's invasion into afghanistan, and have absolutely no problem with them bombing innocents. But talk about palestine and same political offensives in lebanon, and the WHOLE shia community goes up in arms.

Where is the justice?

Your job, as part of the muslim ummah, is to make sure the well being of ALL muslims and ALL innocent non-muslims. Your job is to stop oppression, not allow it in one place because you dont like a certain group, and stand up against it in another place.

Then we worry about why the Ummah is falling apart?

Also regarding pakistan, Pakistan murdered enough people, and most of the movements in swat are locals, balochis, pathanis and fighters from Afghanistan. All people who were affected or are against the shelling of villages BY THE PAKISTANI army, YET STILL, the taliban were willing to side with Pakistan incase of a war with INdia.

Critical thinking is crucial here, emotion is biased without critical thinking.

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Re: Taliban are Kharijites?

FYI my view on Taliban is not derived from Western popular view. Its based on personal experiences which i doubt u have had.

2ndly, Hezbollah and Hamas r demonized by FoXTV and other hardcore Zionist controlled media machines. But even on biased mainstream channels such as the BBC, CNN etc u will c fairly strong voice of support for Hezbollah atleast. Western newspaper editorials and letters to the editorials all over the world remain fairly balanced whenever it is Hezbollah v Israel or Hamas v Isreael happens or even question of the legitamacy of these two is discussed. There are many truth loving and human rights loving ppl among western acadamics as well as western general population who love and support Hezbollah and Hamas. Both groups have ground presence. They have offices, public welfare networks, newspapers, tv channels, public dinners. They do not operate out of caves and run illegal radio stations. Goodness, i cant believe i am having to compare the two.

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Did you even read the post before hitting reply?

Judging by this post, I highly doubt you even gave it a read. Calling it lame doesn't do it justice.

My love for the taliban? I clearly showed you the problem with the taliban, in an effort to make you understand what the ROOT of the problem is. Im not telling you take down branches of the problem tree. I showed you the roots.

Hamas and Hezb have their problems, taliban have their own. Taliban are in PAKISTAN , a key state in US' foreign agenda. lebanon and Gaza are already done and taken care of. Israel is pretty happy doing that as a proxy state for US' plans in that area.

Roots Nuss, Roots.

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So Crescent, What is your opinion about banned deobandi organizations working hand in hand with Talibans to wreak havoc in Pakistan? This information is not incorrect. Is it?

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You can find the answer in my post before Nuss’.

And if you link it to the mumbai attacks, well then it’ll only get…i dunno what it’ll get to then :smack:

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Re: Taliban are Kharijites?

But I am curious to know your opinion about that specific question. Maybe there is some logic that has not crossed my mind. Its always good to know all sides of the argument.