Re: Take the War to Pakistan- Karzai
Karzai first needs to take care of his own country he himself cant take a step out of Kabul has hired Americans to protect him he himself doest trust his own people
Re: Take the War to Pakistan- Karzai
I can see here some people are still stupid enough to deny that who is funding Taliban of Pakistan man why are you afraid that now it is crystal clear that TTP has been funded by CIA
Proof?
Re: Take the War to Pakistan- Karzai
Karzai first needs to take care of his own country he himself cant take a step out of Kabul has hired Americans to protect him he himself doest trust his own people
Dude, it is not only Karzai, any one who knows Afghans, won't trust them!!!
Re: Take the War to Pakistan- Karzai
hanibal many also dont trust Pakistan I know afghans who can be trusted sir first look at yourself than say something capture of Ramyond Davis first proof he works under JASOC and that wikkileaks even proved it
Re: Take the War to Pakistan- Karzai
hanibal many also dont trust Pakistan I know afghans who can be trusted sir first look at yourself than say something capture of Ramyond Davis first proof he works under JASOC and that wikkileaks even proved it
No need to be emotional here, Afghans are known as most inconsistent people in there 2000 year old history, they can be your friend one day and worst enemy next day... this is not what i am saying this is what their history says, have a look on it...
Re: Take the War to Pakistan- Karzai
Show me proof that the CIA Is funding the TTP. It is just a crazy nutters that think stuff like that without proof.
Re: Take the War to Pakistan- Karzai
CM I have realatives in agencies and they have confirmed that phone records and about the meating which raymond and his other partners use to have with TTP leaders butt even if raymond himself accept publicly people like you are not going to belive i must admit shah say barh kar shah kay wafadar
Re: Take the War to Pakistan- Karzai
Show me proof that the CIA Is funding the TTP. It is just a crazy nutters that think stuff like that without proof.
There won't be any Western Union money transfer Number nor there would be any record of bank transfer... so if that is the prove you are looking for, it won't exist....
Now you and i both are aware to the fact that there are more ways to transfer money and me in the field of Investments and finance, have seen people transferring billions without leaving a trace and here we are talking about the top-notch intelligence agency funding terrorists in Pakistan....
Re: Take the War to Pakistan- Karzai
Okay I hate wading into debates like this but I just really cant resist the temptation anymore.
Heres my two cents on the matter…
To me it’s clear that there are those in the US adminsitraion who believe America does have imperial/colonialist ambitions, who wouldn’t with the power they claim to have.
Sure as Karzai and others seem to think the US’s forces seem to be poised to strike at the slightest oppurtunity at the sacred motherland of Pakistan… on any pretext… for the Islamists this is clearly a Western Crusade on Islam, for the Liberalists it’s just an oppurtunity to spread Democracy and equality… 
To me it’s just another strategic issue.
On the whole its obvious all sides have thier proxies involved… I mean I am not a CIA or ISI man but even I know that both sides are actively involved in the region. I agree with CM that there is very little direct connection between the CIA and the TTP… however I would not put it past my slimy friends at Langley to be up to thier necks against the state of Pakistan… as an Unstable Pakistan is just what the USA wants right?
As for the Taliban I see them as no better than the US thugs both target civilians and try and legitimise thier actions by various propaganda… however the Taliban are just as much a problem as the US maybe not millitarily but as an ideology which is what all soldiers shoudl really fight for the Talibs are just as Dangerous as the Yanks… who we could throw out anyday as they dont bleong in the region but the Pathans aint going nowhere fast.
As for Al Qeada they like the Americans are outsiders and should be expelled too… swings both ways… naturally. Such is regional politics I suppose.
Now to Millitary matters… 
Millitarily America wont find a war on three fronts easy thier allready bringing thier own economy to it’s knees with bankruptcy. In Afghanistan the Taliban were no more than 10,000 strong and had no air defence to speak of, thier force largely being Guerilla style they made a tactical withddrawal in 2001 but by winter of 2003 they have been relentless in thier advances. The Coalition has yet to effectively wrest the power from these poorly armed thugs.
In Iraq the invasion was easy Sadam was hated and his large but out of date army was not even Ideologically commited to a united cause, unlike the Taliban who might be biggots but fight damn well the Iraqi army melted away very quickly and again it lacked any serious defence to Air superiority of the Coalition.
However in Iraq there were several instances that could have been very bloody had Sadams army chose to hold on to the Suburbs and even used a Tactic that my old comrades would call “stay behind” or Dig In… the outcome would have been most bloody. Iraq could so easily have seen many Stalingrad type battles had the Iraqi army made any serious move to resist. In Faluja the US were driven out twice and had to reduce the city to ruins before they could effectively move in… had Baghdad and Basra done a simmilar move then sure the US warplanes could have wrecked them but it probably would not have been as decisive and in the ensuing infantry battle the US would have suffered horribly. Allah Ka shukar it did not happen but it goes to show that the locals really did believe at first that the US would be better than Sadam.
In Pakistan however the scenario is very different the Americans will be up agianst some of the best soldiers on the Planet and not only that but Pakistan is well armed and has a top notch Air force…
Even if America went ahead I doubt other countries would be so quick to supprt the US attack and so without support the US forces would for the first time be out numbered. If I make a fair estimate the Coalition fighting troops in Afghanistan number around 100,000 troops Pakistan can muster an imediate response easily more than five times that number and those would be regular soldiers. Pakistan has always very much like Isreal used mass numbers of Irregulars and even specialist units that would be lethal in any fight, Pakistan’s army has become rather lazy but it’s never lost on a home ground and it’s never really been thrown in a concentrated attack.
Now the maths alone does not decide the outcome of a battle but technology and tactics speak for themselves and Paksitan is a very competent force and more than capable of inflicting a cruel defeat on the US despite the possibility of heavy losses. Then thers one more factor the snowball effect. Any attack on Pakistan by the US alone would be almost a garunteed failure and in the long term an Afghanistan like resistance movement would effectvely swallow up any army becuase imagine a united force in Pakistan and as many on this thread have said allready an Invasion would indeed unite Pakistani’s and since most of them have as many guns as the Americans it could get very nasty. Now if India took advantage of the situation and tried to open up Pakistan and wipe us out… then it’s easy to see China wading in and causing a world war…
So with all due respect I would rather everyone tried to solve the matter across a table, sure if they want to bring swords to the debating chamber then let them fight themselves to the death… spare the poor inncoents who dont want anything to do with Imperial ambitions.
Allah hidayat dein sab ko.
Re: Take the War to Pakistan- Karzai
Farisudeen TTP is the product of CIA. and JASOC it is an organisation of trained Americans and Euorpeans who act and behave like taliban are the one who Train and fund TTP of Pakistan
Re: Take the War to Pakistan- Karzai
As for Al Qeada they like the Americans are outsiders and should be expelled too.... swings both ways... naturally. Such is regional politics I suppose.
As far as the american design in the region is concerned they will stay in afghanistan post taleban, at least they will have their bases there even if the taleban are defeated there, and they have made those intentions clear so this war for afghanistan is much more than a simple war on terror.
As far as Pakistan is concerned, we must think why the Americans are spending billions of dollars on their consulate in Islamabad? What are their plans for Pakistan? We know that some Baloch separatists are destabilizing Pakistan from Kabul, why the americans arent doing anything about that, it seems that they themselves are a part of that process. Like I mentioned in the previous post American think tanks had started saying about 10 years ago about the division of Pakistan along ethnic lines, like the Pakistan they show doesnt have NWFP and Balochistan. I fear that at some stage this war will unite the pashtuns across the border and can turn into an ethnic war.
As far as the situation of Balochistan is concerned it started deteriorating when the Chinese came there to build the port! I believe that the Americans want to withdraw from Afghanistan by 2014, maybe that's the timeframe in which they will be in Pakistan to help us cuz we would be losing the war on terror and on the fringes of being divided, and yes the atomic bombs need to be safe guarded as well.
Re: Take the War to Pakistan- Karzai
Ali Syed if Americans are going to stay they are going to die than because no body dares stay in Afghanistan Talibans will love to have americans here so they can hunt some more
Re: Take the War to Pakistan- Karzai
Farisudeen TTP is the product of CIA. and JASOC it is an organisation of trained Americans and Euorpeans who act and behave like taliban are the one who Train and fund TTP of Pakistan
I am not sure yaar. I am not going to cook up conspiracy theories I am merely looking at things the way they are and giving my own opinion. I dont share your opinion that the TTP was created by CIA. Sadly the evidence points to a more ideological source and the TTP is in fact the stem of millitant Islam gone wild... Since 1982 there have been a lot of ex Soviet era Jihadist and the TTP is merely one of the various branches these thugs sprang into.
However I know for a fact that the ISI and CIA have been treating these Jihadist thugs as pets. The Americans armed them for a while and still do it, the TTP however is a proxy that is a millitant force which sprang up quite recently and theres no evidence it was created by the CIA. If you give me such proof then it would be most kind of you and I will back you up, it does make sense that the US would use the TTP as proxies but there are several inconsintencies with this view. I think the TTP are merely insane pragmatists fighting thier own agenda and they are an ideological problem not a millitary one.
So when you say TTP is a product of the Americans much as I would like to think that were true it's actaully not, however the Americans do meddle in the affairs of our country and I would not be suprised if the were helping the TTP so technically they may be helped by some elements in the US coalition the TTP is in fact a problem that we helped create not the Americans.
Re: Take the War to Pakistan- Karzai
As far as the american design in the region is concerned they will stay in afghanistan post taleban, at least they will have their bases there even if the taleban are defeated there, and they have made those intentions clear so this war for afghanistan is much more than a simple war on terror. As far as Pakistan is concerned, we must think why the Americans are spending billions of dollars on their consulate in Islamabad? What are their plans for Pakistan? We know that some Baloch separatists are destabilizing Pakistan from Kabul, why the americans arent doing anything about that, it seems that they themselves are a part of that process. Like I mentioned in the previous post American think tanks had started saying about 10 years ago about the division of Pakistan along ethnic lines, like the Pakistan they show doesnt have NWFP and Balochistan. I fear that at some stage this war will unite the pashtuns across the border and can turn into an ethnic war. As far as the situation of Balochistan is concerned it started deteriorating when the Chinese came their to build the port! I believe that the Americans want to withdraw from Afghanistan by 2014, maybe that's the timeframe in which they will be in Pakistan to help us cuz we would be losing the war on terror and on the fringes of being divided, and yes the atomic bombs need to be safe guarded as well.
Interesting...
Theres some inconsistencies in what your saying but I will return to discuss them later. As I must be away soon but Insha Allah this evening I will be back to the discussion. :)
Thankyou everyone.
Re: Take the War to Pakistan- Karzai
Here’s an old article from TOI dated 2005…does the time lines ring some bells?
http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/2005-02-13/us/27854865_1_nic-cia-talibanisation
Pak will be failed state by 2015: CIA
PTI,Feb 13, 2005, 10.11am IST
NEW DELHI: Pakistan will be a “failed” state by 2015 as it would be affected by civil war, complete Talibanisation and struggle for control of its nuclear weapons, premier US intelligence agencies have said in an assessment report.
Forecasting a “Yugoslavia-like fate” for Pakistan, the US National Intelligence Council (NIC) and Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) in a jointly prepared Global Futures Assessment Report have said “by year 2015 Pakistan would be a failed state, ripe with civil war, bloodshed, inter-provincial rivalries and a struggle for control of its nuclear weapons and complete Talibanisation”.
“Pakistan will not recover easily from decades of political and economic mismanagement, divisive policies, lawlessness, corruption and ethnic friction,” said the report quoted by former Pakistan High Commissioner to United Kingdom Wajid Shamsul Hasan in an article in the ’ South Asia Tribune '.
Re: Take the War to Pakistan- Karzai
Already in 2005, a report by the US National Intelligence Council and the CIA forecast a “Yugoslav-like fate” for Pakistan “in a decade with the country riven by civil war, bloodshed and inter-provincial rivalries, as seen recently in Balochistan.” (Energy Compass, 2 March 2005). According to the NIC-CIA, Pakistan is slated to become a “failed state” by 2015, “as it would be affected by civil war, complete Talibanisation and struggle for control of its nuclear weapons”. (Quoted by former Pakistan High Commissioner to UK, Wajid Shamsul Hasan, Times of India, 13 February 2005):
**“Nascent democratic reforms will produce little change in the face of opposition from an entrenched political elite and radical Islamic parties. In a climate of continuing domestic turmoil, the Central government’s control probably will be reduced to the Punjabi heartland and the economic hub of Karachi,” the former diplomat quoted the NIC-CIA report as saying.
Expressing apprehension, Hasan asked, “are our military rulers working on a similar agenda or something that has been laid out for them in the various assessment reports over the years by the National Intelligence Council in joint collaboration with CIA?” (Ibid)
Continuity, characterized by the dominant role of the Pakistani military and intelligence has been scrapped in favor of political breakup and balkanization.
**
According to the NIC-CIA scenario, which Washington intends to carry out: “Pakistan will not recover easily from decades of political and economic mismanagement, divisive policies, lawlessness, corruption and ethnic friction,” (Ibid) .
**The US course consists in fomenting social, ethnic and factional divisions and political fragmentation, including the territorial breakup of Pakistan. This course of action is also dictated by US war plans in relation to both Afghanistan and Iran.
This US agenda for Pakistan is similar to that applied throughout the broader Middle East Central Asian region. US strategy, supported by covert intelligence operations, consists in triggering ethnic and religious strife, abetting and financing secessionist movements while also weakening the institutions of the central government.
The broader objective is to fracture the Nation State and redraw the borders of Iraq, Iran, Syria, Afghanistan and Pakistan. **
Pakistan’s Oil and Gas reserves
**Pakistan’s extensive oil and gas reserves, largely located in Balochistan province, as well as its pipeline corridors are considered strategic by the Anglo-American alliance, requiring the concurrent militarization of Pakistani territory.
Balochistan comprises more than 40 percent of Pakistan’s land mass, possesses important reserves of oil and natural gas as well as extensive mineral resources.
The Iran-India pipeline corridor is slated to transit through Balochistan. Balochistan also possesses a deap sea port largely financed by China located at Gwadar, on the Arabian Sea, not far from the Straits of Hormuz where 30 % of the world’s daily oil supply moves by ship or pipeline. (Asia News.it, 29 December 2007) **
Pakistan has an estimated 25.1 trillion cubic feet (Tcf) of proven gas reserves of which 19 trillion are located in Balochistan. Among foreign oil and gas contractors in Balochistan are BP, Italy’s ENI, Austria’s OMV, and Australia’s BHP. It is worth noting that Pakistan’s State oil and gas companies, including PPL which has the largest stake in the Sui oil fields of Balochistan are up for privatization under IMF-World Bank supervision.
According to the Oil and Gas Journal (OGJ), Pakistan had proven oil reserves of 300 million barrels, most of which are located in Balochistan. Other estimates place Balochistan oil reserves at an estimated six trillion barrels of oil reserves both on-shore and off-shore (Environment News Service, 27 October 2006) .
Covert Support to Balochistan Separatists
**Balochistan’s strategic energy reserves have a bearing on the separatist agenda. Following a familiar pattern, there are indications that the Baloch insurgency is being supported and abetted by Britain and the US.
The Baloch national resistance movement dates back to the late 1940s, when Balochistan was invaded by Pakistan. In the current geopolitical context, the separatist movement is in the process of being hijacked by foreign powers. **
British intelligence is allegedly providing covert support to Balochistan separatists (which from the outset have been repressed by Pakistan’s military). In June 2006, Pakistan’s Senate Committee on Defence accused British intelligence of “abetting the insurgency in the province bordering Iran” [Balochistan]..(Press Trust of India, 9 August 2006). Ten British MPs were involved in a closed door session of the Senate Committee on Defence regarding the alleged support of Britain’s Secret Service to Baloch separatists (Ibid). Also of relevance are reports of CIA and Mossad support to Baloch rebels in Iran and Southern Afghanistan.
**It would appear that Britain and the US are supporting both sides. The US is providing American F-16 jets to the Pakistani military, which are being used to bomb Baloch villages in Balochistan. Meanwhile, British alleged covert support to the separatist movement (according to the Pakistani Senate Committee) contributes to weakening the central government.
The stated purpose of US counter-terrorism is to provide covert support as well as as training to “Liberation Armies” ultimately with a view to destabilizing sovereign governments. In Kosovo, the training of the Kosovo Liberation Army (KLA) in the 1990s had been entrusted to a private mercenary company, Military Professional Resources Inc (MPRI), on contract to the Pentagon. **
**The BLA bears a canny resemblance to Kosovo’s KLA, which was financed by the drug trade and supported by the CIA and Germany’s Bundes Nachrichten Dienst (BND). **
The BLA emerged shortly after the 1999 military coup. It has no tangible links to the Baloch resistance movement, which developed since the late 1940s. An aura of mystery surrounds the leadership of the BLA.
Re: Take the War to Pakistan- Karzai
This is the American great game and everything is going according to plans uptil now!
Re: Take the War to Pakistan- Karzai
^^ So far so good
Most incompetent govt in the center,
No plans for development
No measures to combat terrorism after military operations
Fueling rivalries between institution and provinces seems to be main govt focus
Appointment of corrupt personals on the key position is what govt have done so far
Yes US plan is on right track, thank you PPP
Re: Take the War to Pakistan- Karzai
The government should have at least done something for the balochistan problem, but no! the taleban issue is also biting us!
The Americans are not that innocent like some people here consider them to be, and we are stupid enough to create problems for our country for the peanuts that they offer to us in the name of assistance.
The thing is that we have forgotten "Allama Iqbal's khudi" and thats why we deserve to be in this position...
Re: Take the War to Pakistan- Karzai
^^ One good govt. can fail all these plans... thats all we need,
PPP and PML-N are not the one to provide that one good Govt...