Take the War to Pakistan- Karzai

End operations in Afghanistan, Karzai tells NATO

Afghan President Hamid Karzai on Saturday told NATO to “stop their operations in our land.”

Karzai s comments came after a week in which his relative was killed in a raid by foreign forces and he rejected an apology by the US commander of troops General David Petraeus for the deaths of nine children in a NATO strike.

“I would like to ask NATO and the US with honour and humbleness and not with arrogance to stop their operations in our land,” Karzai said in Pashto as he visited the dead children s relatives in Kunar province, eastern Afghanistan. “We are very tolerant people but now our tolerance has run out,” he added.

In an apparent reference to neighbour Pakistan, the Western-backed Karzai said international forces “should go and fight this war where we have showed them (it is) over the last nine years”. Insurgents have hideouts in Pakistan s lawless border regions. “This war is not in our land,” Karzai added.

Re: Take the War to Pakistan- Karzai

this is a 2009 article of nytimes

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/12/04/opinion/04jones.html?_r=1
**
Take the War to Pakistan**

By SETH G. JONES
Published: December 3, 2009
Kabul, Afghanistan

PRESIDENT OBAMA’S decision on a timetable for withdrawal of American troops only makes official what everyone here has known for a while: the clock is ticking in Afghanistan. The Taliban have long recognized this, and many captured militants have reminded their interrogators that “you have the watches, but we have the time.”

As we quicken the pace, the top American commander here, Gen. Stanley McChrystal, has repeatedly noted that there are many issues to focus on: building more competent Afghan Army and police forces, adopting more effective anticorruption measures and reintegrating “moderate” Taliban and other insurgent fighters into Afghan society and politics.

But perhaps the most difficult issue is largely outside of General McChrystal’s control (and got short shrift in President Obama’s speech at West Point): **undermining the Taliban’s sanctuary in Pakistan. Thus far, there has been no substantive action taken against the Taliban leadership in Baluchistan Province, south of the Pashtun-dominated areas of Afghanistan. This is the same mistake the Soviets made in the 1980s, when they failed to act against the seven major mujahadeen groups headquartered in Pakistan.

This sanctuary is critical because the Afghan war is organized and run out of Baluchistan. Virtually all significant meetings of the Taliban take place in that province, and many of the group’s senior leaders and military commanders are based there. “The Taliban sanctuary in Baluchistan is catastrophic for us,” a Marine told me on a recent trip to Afghanistan’s Helmand Province, across the border from Baluchistan. “Local Taliban fighters get strategic and operational guidance from across the border, as well as supplies and technical components for their improvised explosive devices.”**

Like a typical business, the Taliban in Pakistan have an organizational structure divided into functional committees. It has a media committee; a military committee; a finance committee responsible for acquiring and managing funds; and so forth. The Taliban’s inner shura, or governing council, exerts authority over lower-level Taliban fighters. It is composed of the supreme Taliban leader, Mullah Muhammad Omar, his principal deputy, Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar, his military commander, Abdullah Zakir, and roughly a dozen other key leaders. Many Taliban leaders have moved their families to Baluchistan, and their children attend Pakistani schools.

Mullah Baradar is particularly important because he runs many of the shuras involving senior Taliban commanders, virtually all of which are in Pakistan. “Omar is reclusive and unpolished,” one Taliban figure recently said to me, “and has preferred to confide in a small number of trusted advisers rather than address larger groups.”

Yet Pakistan and the United States have failed to target them systematically. Pakistani Army and Frontier Corps forces have conducted operations in Pakistan’s tribal areas to the north, and the United States has conducted many drone strikes there. But relatively little has been done in Baluchistan.

The United States and Pakistan must target Taliban leaders in Baluchistan. There are several ways to do it, and none requires military forces.

The first is to conduct raids to capture Taliban leaders in Baluchistan. Most Taliban are in or near Baluchi cities like Quetta. These should be police and intelligence operations, much like American-Pakistani efforts to capture Khalid Shaikh Mohammed and other Qaeda operatives after 9/11. The second is to hit Taliban leaders with drone strikes, as the United States and Pakistan have done so effectively in the tribal areas.

The cost of failing to act in Baluchistan will be enormous. As one Russian diplomat who served in the Soviet Army in Afghanistan recently told me: “You are running out of time. You must balance counterinsurgency efforts in Afghanistan by targeting the leadership nodes in Pakistan. Don’t make the same mistake we did.”

Seth G. Jones, the author of “In the Graveyard of Empires: America’s War in Afghanistan,” is a civilian adviser to the American military and a senior political scientist at the RAND Corporation.

Re: Take the War to Pakistan- Karzai

And they are busy in moving the war to Pakistan, wait till the day they say that Osama is in Pakistan and they have to invade Pakistan to find and prosecute him...

Re: Take the War to Pakistan- Karzai

They are already saying Osama is in Pakistan. They have been saying it since 2001. But I highly doubt they will invade Pakistan. The one thing that will unity all Pakistanis, be it the TTP, the Liberal idiots or the Army and the PPP would be an invasion. That is certainly not part of their agenda. Divide and conquer is.

Re: Take the War to Pakistan- Karzai

^for invading they will come up with any excuse, Osama was just an example, WMDs and unsecure nukes of Pakistan can be a reason.... one attack in newyork or any where on US installation and USA would be doing whatever it takes to "Secure" Americans... just to let everyone knows, American normally do not need proves to invade and if somehow proves are needed then they don't mind cooking someup.. Afghan and Iraq Invasion comes to mind...

Although it won't be an easy or logical decision to make, but US is known for making fool of itself....

Re: Take the War to Pakistan- Karzai

Hanibal is not that easy to invade a country. It requires weeks of preparation, billions of dollars and a force willing to fight. Most Americans do not want a third front. Hell they don't even want to go into Libya and in Pakistan they will be fight an actual army and not a rag tag bunch of idiots. Attacking Pakistan is not a possibility for the next 20 to 30 years at least.

Afghanistan was not cooked up. The Taliban were evil as can be. Most if not all the Taliban take part in activities which are against Islam. They kill and rape women and young girls. They are involved in the drug trade and more importantly they happily kill their fellow Muslims for no reason.

Re: Take the War to Pakistan- Karzai

^^ The american public's intention to not to go for 3rd war has saved Iran and Pakistan i agree on that...

Iraq Story was cooked up in case of Taliban they still have to answer many questions regarding the very reason (9/11).. Talibans were invaded for wrong reasons and we are paying the price for it, the war is in process to be shifted to Pakistan, from last 2/3 years there hasn't been a single month when we don't have brutal terror attack... you are right when you say that they may not invade in regular terms, but they have invaded our country with their spies and maybe are in process of sponsoring all terrorist activities in the country...

BTW, now when Taliban of Afghanistan are officially not in power, who is handling the drug trade?

Re: Take the War to Pakistan- Karzai

The Taliban are a menace to society. They kill innocent Muslims every day in Afghanistan and Pakistan. If it is a decision between siding with the Americans or the Taliban, it will be the Americans hands down. There was nothing cooked up by the Afghan war. The Taliban sheltered Al Qaeda. Al Qaeda killed Americans. Makes logical sense. No questions to ask no questions to answer.

The people killing Pakistanis are Muslims. They are Taliban. If you are gonna blame someone blame the person committing an act that violates the Quran (suicide) and not blame someone else for it.

The issue is not official or unofficial. Half of the country is under de facto Taliban control and they control all of it. In Nimroz and Helmand, the Taliban pay for poppy cultivation and they produce the opium themselves.

Re: Take the War to Pakistan- Karzai

no doubt to that... but let Afghans sort them out... lets not strengthen them by invading the entire country... that is whole point and like i said earlier, Iraq story was cooker, Afghan invasion was for wrong reasons.. to start with, if one had to control Talibans in 9/11 scenario, all they had to do is what they did with Bosnian muslims, put embarko on weapon supply to Taliban... they were not skilled to manufacture high caliber war-fare hardware, hence could have brought down by the locals... Taliban was imposed by ISI+CIA joint operation, they could have been been thrown out of power by the same...

Because, doen't matter how evil taliban were and are, now they claim that they are fighting for the country and now this american war have made them more stronger, with the chances that American may negotiate a deal with them to exit.. so in the end, 10 years ago, taliban were in power, American invaded, removed the evil taliban and in due course 100 of thousands died, and now, Americans are preparing to negotiate with them, leaving them in power again!!! so the only thing changed is, 10 years ago, 100 thousands of Afghan were not killed, Taliban didn't knew their potential strength...

No doubt on that one, killing innocent is no way justified, no matter who kills them, be it Americans or Talibans..

So what the hell Americans are doing about it.... its been 10 years now... apart from attacking wedding and funeral!!!

Re: Take the War to Pakistan- Karzai

What are the Americans doing? Losing the war. They lost hearts and minds a long time ago and now they are losing the war. This spring is expected to be the bloodiest in the past 11 years. And the Americans will never negotiate with them. What they are doing is much much worse. They are supporting local warlords and allowing them to control parts of the country to ensure the Taliban do not take control and thus they are further weakening the control of the government.

Re: Take the War to Pakistan- Karzai

:smack2:

another blood bath of Afghans is under preparation

Re: Take the War to Pakistan- Karzai

Yes and we all see this in the International community. No idea why ISAF is going ahead with the ALP program. Its a bad bad bad idea.

Re: Take the War to Pakistan- Karzai

^ its because of domestic US politics. Hasnt Obama promised a deadline for getting out of Afghanistan?

Re: Take the War to Pakistan- Karzai

July 2011 start of pull out.
July 2014 end of pull out.

Hand it over to the ANA. ANP. Do not create something completely out of the government structure which erodes the control of the government and puts more weapons in the hands of ordinary people who are not the Police or the Army.

Re: Take the War to Pakistan- Karzai

are ANA/ANP good enough? in the areas where the tribal warlords are taking over ie.

Re: Take the War to Pakistan- Karzai

^^ formula/ingredient of Another civil war

Re: Take the War to Pakistan- Karzai

It honestly depends on region and area. Some ANP and ANA are doing a good job but over all its poor. But basically the local Warlords are being support as alternatives to the ANA and ANP. (ANA - Afghan National Army and ANP - Afghan National Police). That is a bad idea.

Hanibal is right. It is already causing trouble. The ANA and ANP Chiefs that I speak with here in my duty station are completely against it. As is the NDS chief. They say its a bad idea and it will spread criminality and warlordism like 15 years ago. When the Afghan elders, Ulema-Shura and others don't want it, I have no idea why its being implemented.

But eh...I am way too low on the totem pole to have a say in anything.

Re: Take the War to Pakistan- Karzai

I agree that its a bad idea, and its going to lead to a bad situation. Probably also disincentives Pakistan wrt holding onto the Taliban groups it does have influence over, if the 90s dynamic is going to start up again anyway we'd like to have our guys in the mix.

Im just saying if the deadline, along with the unreadiness of ANA/ANP isnt the reason for the support for warlords. Also memories of the sunni uprising in Iraq might be swaying heads.

Re: Take the War to Pakistan- Karzai

Obama is following the Bush foreign doctrine. He tried to appease the liberals and the left with the deadline, but lets face it, even if he pulls a 100 troops or 2,000 troops, it would still be called a "withdrawal". The guy is sharp though it is unfortunate that he is not a firm leader like bush was regardless of the outcome of the decisions. I mean people like bhutto and a lot of his decisions like quota system, nationalization (admitted by PPP now) and the mujib episode did a lot of harm to Pakistan, but he still is remember for being able to get what he wanted done.

Re: Take the War to Pakistan- Karzai

You hate taliban? :eek: