[quote]
Originally posted by Shakir75:
** Okay bro...I am a "selfish Syed wanna be". I confess.
**
[/quote]
My dear friend, shakir Sahib,
So, you are going to run away instead of bringing me some kind of historical proofs from the hidden closet? You "CLAIM" you prove it.
Come on yaar, I want to see the TRUTH that you hold, please. :)
YOU take it easy now.
*V~V~V*He came, He saw, He conquered*V~V~V*
----*High Priest-OF-Painful Truth*----
Watcher bhai,
I have my genealogy to prove it. And many proofs. Like distant relatives in Iran (who claim to be Syeds too...hmmm what a co-incidence). But then I know you...I have been reading your posts for a while...I know what kind of perosn you are. You hate being wrong and you hate losing an argument. So...how am I going to prove it to you? Even if I did show you my genealogy going back 1400 years, you won't accept it. You have already said that the shejras are all made up before even seeing one. Or do you want to take a trip with me to Iran? Don't think so...I got better things to do.
That's why I want to "run away" like a "selfish Syed wanna be".
I have said this before, i don't need to prove anything to you.
At least in IndoPak, syeds consider themselves to be descendent of prophet Muhammad through Imam Zainul Abedin /son of Imam Hussain /son of Hadhrat Fatima/daughter of prophet Muhammad.
Generally bloodline is considered to carry from male members of the family so in this case it is carried by daughter. If we consider the issue of bloodline carried by son in the family then whole case of syeds is invalid being the descendents of Prophet Muhammad.
[quote]
Originally posted by analyze it:
*At least in IndoPak, syeds consider themselves to be descendent of prophet Muhammad through Imam Zainul Abedin /son of Imam Hussain /son of Hadhrat Fatima/daughter of prophet Muhammad.
Generally bloodline is considered to carry from male members of the family so in this case it is carried by daughter. If we consider the issue of bloodline carried by son in the family then whole case of syeds is invalid being the descendents of Prophet Muhammad. *
[/quote]
Analyze it bhai. :D
You did not analyze the root of it all. Remember Hazrat Ali is the first cousin of the Prophet(pbuh)? So the genelogy is from the male side. Our Prophet (pbuh) did not have any male sons who lived long enough to have a family and kids.
[quote]
Originally posted by Shakir75:
** Analyze it bhai. :D
You did not analyze the root of it all. Remember Hazrat Ali is the first cousin of the Prophet(pbuh)? So the genelogy is from the male side. Our Prophet (pbuh) did not have any male sons who lived long enough to have a family and kids.
**
[/quote]
Dear Shakir:
Let me clarify to you that I am syed too but don't feel proud of it.And am not trying to degrade syeds because it will mean degrade myself.
Now come back to discussion.As you said Prophet Muhammad did not have any living son. So Hadhrat Ali was his cousin but not the son and bloodline is not carried by cousins even if they are married to one's daughter. The blood of Prophet Muhammad is carried by Hadhrat Fatima and not Hadhrat Ali who carries his father's blood.
[quote]
Originally posted by Shakir75:
**Watcher bhai,
I have my genealogy to prove it. And many proofs. Like distant relatives in Iran (who claim to be Syeds too...hmmm what a co-incidence). But then I know you...I have been reading your posts for a while...I know what kind of perosn you are. You hate being wrong and you hate losing an argument. So...how am I going to prove it to you? Even if I did show you my genealogy going back 1400 years, you won't accept it. You have already said that the shejras are all made up before even seeing one. Or do you want to take a trip with me to Iran? Don't think so...I got better things to do.
That's why I want to "run away" like a "selfish Syed wanna be".
I have said this before, i don't need to prove anything to you.
**
[/quote]
Dear Shakir,
So, the distant relatives also "claim" to be decendants of Mohammad? Man I wanna see your shajraa and your geneology tree, please.
If your geneology is accurate enough, we will consider it. The point is you post it.
Yes, I want to go to Iran with you, please. No, you say? :(
Why not?
I want to do DNA tests on all of your familiy members, the "claimies" who claim that they are from prophets family. But small little problem is that we don't have any DNA from the REAL members of the Prophets family.
If you are going to get some respect from people claiming that you are relative of Prophet, you OUGHT to prove to them that you are a SYED and not wanna be? You see where I am coming from my friend?
Even if you don't want to prove anything to me, you wanting or not wanting is not the question here, YOU HAVE TO and you should. Other wise stop it with the "claims." Please. :)
You take it easy my friend.
*V~V~V*He came, He saw, He conquered*V~V~V*
----*High Priest-OF-Painful Truth*----
There is nothing wrong with looking at the family background.
...If a tree represents all humans...then the branches are ALL different...NOT better than one-another.
...I didn't post here because I'm looking for respect bla bla bla...THAT only comes from ALLAH...Shukr-Alhamdulillah life is a blessing for me...and NOT single time I mentioned to anyone that I'm syed inorder to GAIN anything!!
...People DO migrate, it's INCOURAGED by our prophet MUHAMMAD(SAW), for many reasons such as Spreading ISLAM, better life, education etc. Karbal ISN'T in Saudi but Iraq.
...DON'T judge people...PLEASE...there is ENOUGH hatred in this world.
...I DONOT hate others due to their religion, color, family, etc...it REALLY matters what the PERSON as a human IS him/herself.
...Muslims,Hindus,Christians,Jewish etc ARE all ALLAH's creation and we have NO RIGHT to judge anyone but ourselves.
...By being MUslim---I don't intend to put down Hindus, Christians etc--but to say that I am proud of WHO I am and you should be of YOURS.
...By being PATHAN, I don't say that I'm better then a Punjabi or Sindhi--but to express that I am proud of being PUKHTOON and u should be proud of YOURS.
...By being Syed, I don't say that I'm better then a newly convert-muslim, but to say that that's where I belong.
...And as a person being proud of my DEEDS, I don't say that I'm better then YOU, but to say that I prefer and follow the straight path--and not that YOU don't.
......So, lets treat eachother with
KINDNESS...RESPECT...despite our ethnic and religious background.:)
I know I said I quit.. but here I am cos of a personal exoerience too.
When my Dad was young ... there was this girl's family that were really interested in him.. & it was a perfect match! BUT my grandad said no cos we R pure "Syeds" as U guys call it.. with both parents being "Syed".. & since that lady had a Kashmiri grandmother in her shijrah somewhere.. my Grandad refused.
Now when we grew up (I am 28)... my sis was married again into total Syed family.. both parents.. but umm.. me.. I wanted to marry this non Syed guy. My Dad was very hesitant.. no one in our family has married outside Syeds before... but then HE broke the rule.. & said that a good person is known by his Taqwa... & not by caste... & we R all Muslims.. & I had a happy ending! I have been married 2 yrs now.. my hubby is a non syed but he is an angel.. & castes R self created!
So.. all of U.. grow out of this Syed shell & broaden your minds!
[This message has been edited by aidhen (edited January 27, 2001).]
[quote]
Originally posted by aidhen:
**I know I said I quit.. but here I am cos of a personal exoerience too.
When my Dad was young ... there was this girl's family that were really interested in him.. & it was a perfect match! BUT my grandad said no cos we R pure "Syeds" as U guys call it.. with both parents being "Syed".. & since that lady had a Kashmiri grandmother in her shijrah somewhere.. my Grandad refused.
Now when we grew up (I am 28)... my sis was married again into total Syed family.. both parents.. but umm.. me.. I wanted to marry this non Syed guy. My Dad was very hesitant.. no one in our family has married outside Syeds before... but then HE broke the rule.. & said that a good person is known by his Taqwa... & not by caste... & we R all Muslims.. & I had a happy ending! I have been married 2 yrs now.. my hubby is a non syed but he is an angel.. & castes R self created!
So.. all of U.. grow out of this Syed shell & broaden your minds!
[This message has been edited by aidhen (edited January 27, 2001).]**
[/quote]
AS YOU HAVE READ FROM EXPERIENCE ON THE SAME PAGE OR YOU MAY CARE TO READ NOW I AM IN THE AME BOAT AS YOUR HUSBAND AND I CAN FEEL FOR HIM BECAUSE I KNOW THAT HE MUST HAVE GONE THROUGH ALOT OF DEGRADATION TO GET MARRIED TO YOU.
I AM GOING THROUGH THE SAME PLESE ADVISE ME AND TELL ME WHAT TO DO
I WILL REPOST MY MESSAGE SO THAT YOU CAN READ IT.
AND I WOULD LIKE TO SAY TO ALL THOSE OUT THERE IS THERE ANY ONE WHO HAS TAKEN MY CHALLENGE OR ID THER ANY ONE WHO BOTHERS TO READ.
AS YOU HAVE READ FROM EXPERIENCE ON THE SAME PAGE OR YOU MAY CARE TO READ NOW I AM IN THE AME BOAT AS YOUR HUSBAND AND I CAN FEEL FOR HIM BECAUSE I KNOW THAT HE MUST HAVE GONE THROUGH ALOT OF DEGRADATION TO GET MARRIED TO YOU.
I AM GOING THROUGH THE SAME PLESE ADVISE ME AND TELL ME WHAT TO DO
I WILL REPOST MY MESSAGE SO THAT YOU CAN READ IT.
AND I WOULD LIKE TO SAY TO ALL THOSE OUT THERE IS THERE ANY ONE WHO HAS TAKEN MY CHALLENGE OR ID THER ANY ONE WHO BOTHERS TO READ.
I CHALLENGE YOU ALL
I have read all three pages rerding the discussion about syeds,caste system, hindu culture.
I have read many statements denoucing all the above. but can tell you with practical experience that this is no more than talk.
Wait till you come up with a practical issue like i pointed out about marriages to non syeds especially a syed girl marrying a non syed man. It becomes a totally different ball game.
All of you may be coz of education or other influences are saying and talking about equal opps but your fathers and mothers may not agree on this.
There view is that syeds are better than all the rest, it does not matter about deeds they will get heaven just by being related, non syeds are less than syeds. (This and other things have been said to me by a person who stated she loved me the most)
All the views you all are stating changed when her and his daughter stated that she wanted to marry me.( i am a non syed but Imam Hussains pbuh wife comes from my Gakhar/Kiani. family)
Wait till you come to a practical issue your views will cahnge.
Or you can all do me a favour by telling all your elders that that every one is equal in Islam.
YOu can change my views by obtaining a Fatwa stating that it is possible.
( Recently a syed girl married a non syed, only the mother gave consent, the family members through influence obtained a Fatwa stating that it was un lawful and any one who does will be killed and also any one who assists. This fatwa was given by a Shia maulvi from Sargodha region of pakistan)
See if you can get a Fatwa to say that it is possible!!
That is my challenge to you who speak of equality!!!!!!!!! from a shia a scholar if possible!!!
Send me an email at [email protected] when you have been succesful.
Proove all of us wrong that the people who are descendants of the Imams are up to the task.
Prooving me wrong will enforce the idea that the caste system does not exist in Muslims
( I hope you can)
BE SUCCESSFUL FOR GOD SAKES
REMEMBER NTHE LAST ADDRESS OF THE PROPHET AND ITS HUMAN RIGHTS CHARTER!!!!!
I CHALLENGE YOU ALL
I have read all three pages rerding the discussion about syeds,caste system, hindu culture.
I have read many statements denoucing all the above. but can tell you with practical experience that this is no more than talk.
Wait till you come up with a practical issue like i pointed out about marriages to non syeds especially a syed girl marrying a non syed man. It becomes a totally different ball game.
All of you may be coz of education or other influences are saying and talking about equal opps but your fathers and mothers may not agree on this.
There view is that syeds are better than all the rest, it does not matter about deeds they will get heaven just by being related, non syeds are less than syeds. (This and other things have been said to me by a person who stated she loved me the most)
All the views you all are stating changed when her and his daughter stated that she wanted to marry me.( i am a non syed but Imam Hussains pbuh wife comes from my Gakhar/Kiani. family)
Wait till you come to a practical issue your views will cahnge.
Or you can all do me a favour by telling all your elders that that every one is equal in Islam.
YOu can change my views by obtaining a Fatwa stating that it is possible.
( Recently a syed girl married a non syed, only the mother gave consent, the family members through influence obtained a Fatwa stating that it was un lawful and any one who does will be killed and also any one who assists. This fatwa was given by a Shia maulvi from Sargodha region of pakistan)
See if you can get a Fatwa to say that it is possible!!
That is my challenge to you who speak of equality!!!!!!!!! from a shia a scholar if possible!!!
Send me an email at [email protected] when you have been succesful.
Proove all of us wrong that the people who are descendants of the Imams are up to the task.
Prooving me wrong will enforce the idea that the caste system does not exist in Muslims
( I hope you can)
BE SUCCESSFUL FOR GOD SAKES
REMEMBER NTHE LAST ADDRESS OF THE PROPHET AND ITS HUMAN RIGHTS CHARTER!!!!!
[This message has been edited by MAN CHALA (edited January 26, 2001).]
I CHALLENGE YOU ALL
I have read all three pages rerding the discussion about syeds,caste system, hindu culture.
I have read many statements denoucing all the above. but can tell you with practical experience that this is no more than talk.
Wait till you come up with a practical issue like i pointed out about marriages to non syeds especially a syed girl marrying a non syed man. It becomes a totally different ball game.
All of you may be coz of education or other influences are saying and talking about equal opps but your fathers and mothers may not agree on this.
There view is that syeds are better than all the rest, it does not matter about deeds they will get heaven just by being related, non syeds are less than syeds. (This and other things have been said to me by a person who stated she loved me the most)
All the views you all are stating changed when her and his daughter stated that she wanted to marry me.( i am a non syed but Imam Hussains pbuh wife comes from my Gakhar/Kiani. family)
Wait till you come to a practical issue your views will cahnge.
Or you can all do me a favour by telling all your elders that that every one is equal in Islam.
YOu can change my views by obtaining a Fatwa stating that it is possible.
( Recently a syed girl married a non syed, only the mother gave consent, the family members through influence obtained a Fatwa stating that it was un lawful and any one who does will be killed and also any one who assists. This fatwa was given by a Shia maulvi from Sargodha region of pakistan)
See if you can get a Fatwa to say that it is possible!!
That is my challenge to you who speak of equality!!!!!!!!! from a shia a scholar if possible!!!
Send me an email at [email protected] when you have been succesful.
Proove all of us wrong that the people who are descendants of the Imams are up to the task.
Prooving me wrong will enforce the idea that the caste system does not exist in Muslims
( I hope you can)
BE SUCCESSFUL FOR GOD SAKES
REMEMBER NTHE LAST ADDRESS OF THE PROPHET AND ITS HUMAN RIGHTS CHARTER!!!!!
Dear Manchalla
All I can say is that a Fatwa cannot be obtained & that too when we R talking about the narrow-mindedness in Pakistan... & the caste system followed there.
It all depends upon the parents... if they R "sensible" enough to understand this point that all Muslima R equal! But do U think U can talk sense into such ppl who insist on dowery & mehndi functions which they think is a religious belief... & basically is again a Hindu concept?! What about Basant celebrated each year? Isn't that Indian again...? While everyone gets their kites & flies to death with them!
There is no cure for such thinking... look at youngbrat! He needs a spanking! Imagine what his mind has been fed with that he cannot digest anything else!!!
I am sorry about ur story... but believe me.. very few ppl understand this point! Alhamdulilah my family has some sense & is not living in the dark ages of Hinduism anymore!
[quote]
Originally posted by Shakir75:
**Watcher bhai,
I have my genealogy to prove it. And many proofs. Like distant relatives in Iran (who claim to be Syeds too...hmmm what a co-incidence). But then I know you...I have been reading your posts for a while...I know what kind of perosn you are. You hate being wrong and you hate losing an argument. So...how am I going to prove it to you? Even if I did show you my genealogy going back 1400 years, you won't accept it. You have already said that the shejras are all made up before even seeing one. Or do you want to take a trip with me to Iran? Don't think so...I got better things to do.
That's why I want to "run away" like a "selfish Syed wanna be".
I have said this before, i don't need to prove anything to you.
**
[/quote]
It is a common myth in each country to claim from far diatant exotic place.Indian muslims from past have been under fascination of mid east iran,afghanistan,turkistan,lebenon,AS IF BEING FROM THERE WOULD MEAN SUPERIOR 'nassal'
When Shakir so you have a relative in Iran or uzbekistan ,or tazekistan,how are they a commendable race better than say from Allahabad or Lucknow or Delhi or Lahore Or Bombay india????In America it is common among white to talk about europe like that unfortunately talking to european you find they are dying to be Americans themselves!!
The falsity of Farsi Turki Arabi being better for muslim is gone.World has shrunk,& we have circled around the world to have a birds eye view of new world order
Negahe Marde Momin Se Badal Jate Hai Taqdeeren
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Shakir75:
**Watcher bhai,
I have my genealogy to prove it. And many proofs. Like distant relatives in Iran (who claim to be Syeds too...hmmm what a co-incidence). But then I know you...I have been reading your posts for a while...I know what kind of perosn you are. You hate being wrong and you hate losing an argument. So...how am I going to prove it to you? Even if I did show you my genealogy going back 1400 years, you won't accept it. You have already said that the shejras are all made up before even seeing one. Or do you want to take a trip with me to Iran? Don't think so...I got better things to do.
That's why I want to "run away" like a "selfish Syed wanna be".
I have said this before, i don't need to prove anything to you.
**/Q
It is a common myth in each country to claim from far diatant exotic place.Indian muslims from past have been under fascination of mid east iran,afghanistan,turkistan,lebenon,AS IF BEING FROM THERE WOULD MEAN SUPERIOR 'nassal'
When Shakir so you have a relative in Iran or uzbekistan ,or tazekistan,how are they a commendable race better than say from Allahabad or Lucknow or Delhi or Lahore Or Bombay india????In America it is common among white to talk about europe like that unfortunately talking to european you find they are dying to be Americans themselves!!
The falsity of Farsi Turki Arabi being better for muslim is gone.World has shrunk,& we have circled around the world to have a birds eye view of new world order
Negahe Marde Momin Se Badal Jate Hai Taqdeeren
Dyamn :)
I am so glad I missed this debate :)
[quote]
Originally posted by Azad Munna:
** It is a common myth in each country to claim from far diatant exotic place.Indian muslims from past have been under fascination of mid east iran,afghanistan,turkistan,lebenon,AS IF BEING FROM THERE WOULD MEAN SUPERIOR 'nassal'
When Shakir so you have a relative in Iran or uzbekistan ,or tazekistan,how are they a commendable race better than say from Allahabad or Lucknow or Delhi or Lahore Or Bombay india????In America it is common among white to talk about europe like that unfortunately talking to european you find they are dying to be Americans themselves!!
The falsity of Farsi Turki Arabi being better for muslim is gone.World has shrunk,& we have circled around the world to have a birds eye view of new world order
**
[/quote]
Azad Munna,
I never said that a Farsi, Turki or an Arab is a better muslim than an Indian or Pakistani.
You do have a point. We are fascinated with places that are far and distant. But that's human nature. Americans are in love with Europe. Don't ask me why. Maybe that's their 'old world'. Or can it be that they find something that they can relate too? I'm not sure.
However, I don't think that people from central asia are in any way a superior 'nassal'. I'm sure that there are people who would think otherwise.
Take it easy.
DEAR SHAKIR75
I AM WRITING TO ASK U TO TAKE UP MAN CHALA CHALLENGE CAN AAP BOTH SAMAJDAR LAGTHAY HO PHIR US KO JAVAB AAP NAHI DIYA
PLEASE GIVE A REPLY I FEEL U OWE THIS AFTER BRINGING UP THE SUBJECT
THANXS BRO HOPE 2 HEAR FROM U SOON IN URE DISCUSSION
Munazra…
Mujiza…
…are the requirements for non-believers…
…Fatwa, is needed for critical and crucial descisions…and so on…
…No one has to prove NOTHING to nobody…throwing the burdon of proof on someone is an act of FOOLISHNESS…(for example—prove the chicken came before the egg)–whereas YOU can’t prove viceversa…
…Sorry to hear about your practical delima, but not ALL Syeds discriminate just like,
…ALL black-people ARENOT criminals
…ALL sikhs ARENOT stupid
…ALL whites ARENOT racists
…ALL iranians ARENOT terrorists
…ALL muslims in INDO-Pak ARENOT converted
…ALL dark-skins ARENOT ugly
…ALL japanese ARENOT bright people
…ALL Hajis ARENOT religious-figures
…This phenoneon is known as “Generalization”—“Steriotyping” which comes from “Narrowmindedness” and which leads to “Discrimination”.
…WE ARE ALL EQUAL…anyone who says otherwise is wrong…
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smash.gif
…My forefathers never preached that to us. Never stood against the marriage to other muslims…never told us that we were better…or will go to heaven bla bla bla…