Syed/Shah family trees

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81

[quote]
Originally posted by Degas:
Shakir75,
I know u r not implying anything.... but I am saying about many syeds I have met.... some pirs and some others... Its always good to knoew ur family background but the question is a syed being equal to ant muslim just converted from lowest of hindu castes.. for me i respect him same as any other muslim..
[/quote]

What R the concepts in Islam? Have U not done your homework kid? Go read the Holy Quran w/ translation!
All Muslims R equal.. regardless of their caste, creed or colour... except fot those who fear Allah the most! They R the best!
& a convert would have studied Islam better than us to be convinced & convert! Imagine his place with Allah! So... there is no "superior" in Islam! Allah is superior.. we all worship him... & those who do just as Allah as ordered R superior among humans.

82

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/ok.gif

thats the point I am saying man…

[This message has been edited by Degas (edited January 26, 2001).]

83

That’s the WHOLE POINT! If U have the same family name as an Arab.,… U don’t have to tell them that U R from an Arabic background! They will know it anyway! But if U R a Pakistani created caste, then exactly how would an Arab know about U & ur history?

84

There is no AUTHENTIC proof that people living in Pakistan or western Africa are related to Hazrat Ali or are from Syed family.
Its just a way for people to get some respect and prestige(izaat) in Pakistan that they put “syed” or “shah” with their names.

I had this friend in college who was from Morraco, and there are some people who clame that they are from the family of the prophet( syeds) and on the other side we have you people in Pakistan and sub-continent claming the same thing. He told me that its BS and people put “syeds” “shahs” to get some higher status in society.

Its all mixed up, there is no authentic proof. All the “shajraas” are made up… you all can’t be relatives on this forums… :rolleyes:

YOU take it easy my friends!

V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**

----*High Priest-OF-Painful Truth*----

85

[quote]
Originally posted by analyze it:
Some body mentioned that there are no syeds in Arab countries. Why?
Did all syed move to India?
I have not seen any non indian or pakistani calling themselves syed. Why is that?
Does it mean that all syed moved to only India at one time??

[/quote]

The whole point is that SYEDSSSSSSSSS DO NOT EXIST IN THE ARABS.. SO WHY WOULD THEY MIGRATE ELSEWHERE? WE IN PAK-INDIA CREATED THE WORD SYED! SYED IN ARABIS IS "SIR"... EVERYONE CALLS U SYED WHEN U GO TO A STORE!

[quote]
Another point to ponder is that syeds are supposed to be of arabic descendent and Arabs are generally much fair and pink in color and taller than indian and pakistani people. Most so called syeds that I have seen in India/pakistan are short and dark in color and clearly of pure indian origin rather than arab origin. It is hard to believe that these syed bear arab blood.
Likely they are of indian origin rather than arabic origin.

[/quote]

True! But Arabs R mostly dark. Its the Iranian Arabs that R fair.. or Palestinians or Lebanese. Even the original Egyptians were dark. The "Khaleeji".. i.e. the Saudis, Qataris, Bahrainis & those from the UAE R all like us.. sort of dark. BUT.. another point is that if an Arab marries an Indian woman, then the kids can get the mothers features & color. But, the Arabs look just like us.. infact, some of us R fairer than them. But it's the "features" that might give a clue. Like my brother looks totally saudi... everyone says I have foreign features... even the Khaleeji think we R Arabs... so, this kinda shows the Arabic desecent.

[This message has been edited by aidhen (edited January 26, 2001).]

86

[quote]
Originally posted by mehndi:
**yes.. some pple do think that marrying into a syed family is "good" and there is a so called thinking that after an X amount of yrs that girl who is married into a syed family becomes a syed. what nonsense.

-mehndi**
[/quote]

This is totally rubbish! The family name belongs to the guy... & its his name that is carried! BUS!

87

Mr Watcher:
You don't have solid proof that on your side. Proove it. I'm waiting. This Morroccon friend of yours....what is he, Mr Know-it-all?

88

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Shakir75:
**
Why do I have a tough time believing that you are not jealous?

Its tough becoz i am truly saying that.

Syed is a title or a sir name.

There is no title or sir name in Islam as such, you are known only by your deds as God says.

The Imams lived hundreds of years ago. How can you say that they never used that name? Where you there? Even if they didn’t use that name, does that mean that they were not of that title or family?

How can you say that. What proof or evidence you have.A Imam will never use or recommend a title to his followers as it will produce discrimination which is against the spirits of Islam.BTW use Laws or Priniciples( i mean Islamic) before commiting to some thing.Like some one said
Tum sabhi kuch ho batao mussalman bhi ho.

Here’s an example: My father does not write Syed in front of his name. Does does make him a non-Syed? On the other hand, if you change your name to Syed, will that make you a Syed?
No matter what you say will ever change anything in the past.
If i want to hold on to his “inheritance” (as you put it) and pass it down to generations- just like my ancestors have, then you have no right to tell me otherwise.

Past will never change until we rectify it of impurities which have seeded in to it. Today you are making history for tomarrow at least for your family values, do what ever you like but don’t Brandize with Islam.

Take it cool and think over it before bednight sleep.
:cool:

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LET ME MAKE A FEW THINGS VERY CLEAR TO ALL OF U.

  1. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A CASTE SYSTEM IN ISLAM. SO IF U R SHOWING OFF ON THE BASIS OF THAT, I AM A HASHEMI (WHICH BY THE WAY EXIST IN ALL ARAB COUNTRIES & INDO-PAK) WITH ARABIC FEATURES, A PURE SHIJRAH & ALL. SO, I AM NOT IMPRESSED BY ANY OF U & THINK U ALL R WRONG.
  2. SYEDS R AN INDO-PAK CREATED CONCEPT. IF SYEDS R SUPPOSED TO DESCEND FROM THE ARABS, HOW COME THE ARABS DONT LABEL A BUNCH OF FAMILY NAMES AS SYEDS? COS WE STARTED THIS BY COPYING THE HINDUS.
  3. U CAN SAY U WANNA SEE WHO U R "RELATED " TO SEEING U MIGHT BE FROM THE SAME FAMILY-NAME.. NOT CASTE! UNDERSTAND? I AM TELLING U.. THIS IS ALL WRONG… THINKING U R SUPERIOR COS U R A SYED! NO ONE GIVES A DAMN CEPT PPL WHO R ILLITERATE LIKE URSELVES & HAVE MINIMAL KNOWLEDGE BEYOND THE ILLUSION THAT THEY R “SYEDS”.
  4. GET UP & PRAY THE NAMAAZ WHICH IS DUE ABHI. IT’S JUMAA, U WILL GET MORE SAWWB. READ THE HOLY QURAN, UNDERSTAND IT & FOLLOW IT. THIS WAY U WILL BECOME SUPERIOR IF U R SO FOND OF BEING ONE!
    I now quit this topic cos it’s like hitting ur head against a brick wall trying to talk sense into U guys!

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/frusty.gif

90

Degas, Aidhen, MM and others who have a problem swallowing this down your throat.

Which one of the Sayed/Shah said here that we are Arabs?

Which one of the Sayed/Shah here stated that they are better then any other Muslim here?

Which one of the Sayed/Shah here tried to prove that they are 100% Arab and something better then Hindu converts?

You know, I think its you guys who are not proud of who you are that is why you guys are wasting your time on something that don’t even concern you. I already said in my other post that this doesn’t have anything to do with Religion but again and again you guys bring in Islam. For what? I ask for what? If doesn’t bother you then leave!

Obviously this is hurting you guys in some sort that is why you guys are so restless about it!

Please do answer above questions………….I will like laughing this whole day also :)

And yes, since this doesn’t concern you guys then please if you don’t have anything nice to say, then don’t say anything at all. Most of you guys are saying that you guys are not jealous or not bothered with this. Then I ask you to give it a rest will ya? :)

We are the Taleban-Resistance is Futile
Sin: Osama Bin Junior

91

For young Bratt
Be young and dont get tired before i start assuming you got old in thoughts as well as physically.

It does not hurt me nor bothers what you are. You using the islamic label(mussalman) when you call yourself syed as unconsciously trying to segregate your clan.Isn’t it true?I never interrogated about your faithness as a muslim. If you want to use it usre it don’t make it a part of islamic names.

You want to laugh, laugh whole day but think over what you laugh becoz I am laughing now and i know why i am.

I am not restless just trying to straighting the path for other guppies who go over these threads.
Now take it easy.
:cool:

92

My dear friend Shakir75,

I am NOT the one "claming" to be syed or shah, its you. You have to prove it. I see all of your talking about being one, but no one has provided any significant proof that they really are... I don't think there is any "authentic" proof, if there was and if there was any one from prophets family "authenticaly" proven he/they would be in holiest city under protection. There isn't any proof, its all mixed up and "self-statifying" games nothing else.

No one knows where/who are the real syeds and where they are. ONLY allah knows.

You take it easy now.

*V~V~V*He came, He saw, He conquered*V~V~V*

----*High Priest-OF-Painful Truth*----

93

mm10

It does not hurt me nor bothers what you are. You using the islamic label(mussalman) when you call yourself syed as unconsciously trying to segregate your clan.Isn’t it true?I never interrogated about your faithness as a muslim. If you want to use it usre it don’t make it a part of islamic names.

Exactly my point! If it doesn’t concern you, then leave it. Why brag and cry about it like a sissy? Trying to be cute?

I am not restless just trying to straighting the path for other guppies who go over these threads.
Now take it easy.

Are you saying that all these other guppies are dumb? They can’t make decisions for them selves and you are here being their grandma?
That’s what exactly what people say when they are under a little pressure, is that they did it cuz of others sake.

Man, you are getting lamer 'n lamer each post. lol :smiley:

You want to laugh, laugh whole day but think over what you laugh becoz I am laughing now and i know why i am.

Let me guess, at yourself right? Ahhahahahahahahaahhahahahaahahahahahahahahha

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/hehe.gif

**
For young Bratt
Be young and dont get tired before i start assuming you got old in thoughts as well as physically.**

Awwwwwwwww whats this? Trying to get your self a status in Muzna’s flaming post?

Hahahahahahahaha

These little personal attacks are for girls and Mods here.
You gotta curse to get me turned on…So I can spank you silly

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/kiss.gif

ya bAbY

We are the Taleban-Resistance is Futile
Sin: Osama Bin Junior

94

[quote]
Originally posted by The Watcher:
**My dear friend Shakir75,

I am NOT the one "claming" to be syed or shah, its you. You have to prove it. I see all of your talking about being one, but no one has provided any significant proof that they really are... I don't think there is any "authentic" proof, if there was and if there was any one from prophets family "authenticaly" proven he/they would be in holiest city under protection. There isn't any proof, its all mixed up and "self-statifying" games nothing else.

No one knows where/who are the real syeds and where they are. ONLY allah knows.

You take it easy now.

**
[/quote]

Watcher bahai,
I don't have to prove anything. I know what the truth is and am satisfied with it. You can believe anything you want. End of discussion.

95

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Shakir75:
** You are misunderstanding the whole point here. Syeds, Khans, etc, etc...are all families names. Don't confuse this with the Hindu caste system in which upper caste are superior from lower caste.
I've already said this....All Muslims are equal in front of Allah.
"One can only be superior in piety"

Shakir,

Dont dodge the question,instead of correcting your established fallacies.There is no TITLES /SURNAMES in islam.Do we agree on that or not .If not then no use discussing .If you agree then rememvber,superiority in Piety is also not familial,but has to be EARNED.
After all these classifications is arbitrary,can you affirm genetic proof of syed in bangladesh havimg same as that in kerala,tamil,hyderabad,&iran,arabia & pakistan????
It is all feudalistic fantasy when muslims converted fom other religions (idolatory or christian,or jew,or hindu or jain,buddhist or anything else)they created this fantasy direct limkage to 1500 yrs ago islam to claim that they come from the oldest converts.There is no historical.geneological or common sense proof of it.AND EVEN IF IT IS,HOW IS IT SUPERIOR TO BE DESCENDENT OF ZAINULABEDIN,SUPPOSEDLY FAMILY OF MOHOMMED OR HUSSAN, HUSSAIN OR ALI .In the eyes of allah & islam each person is WHOLE in himself,He comes with clean slate goes with his achievements behaviour &imaan.No one will be pardonned b/c his great ancesters are 0.0011 % hussan or hussain or ali or zainul abedin.They will be judged for there deeds & you will be for yours.ANYTHING else is idolatory of person,hero worship &makes us no different than HINDUISM

Negahe Marde Momin Se Badal Jate Hai Taqdeeren

96

My dear friend, shakir,

You know the truth? Tell me man, I would like to know as well. Don’t you think, keeping the truth to your self really, I mean really really makes you look like a selfish, syed wanna be? Please be cooperative…factual.

Statements like: “I know what is the truth…you stay out of this…” mean nothing. :rolleyes:

YOU take it easy now.

V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**

----*High Priest-OF-Painful Truth*----

97

WEll said my friend !!

98

[quote]
Originally posted by yOuNgBrAt:
** Dose it matter how they look?

Come to NWFP Pakistan and i will show you how Sayed there look like. Not that i care. But you brought it up.

**
[/quote]

Again do all syeds look like Pathan,No -So the syeds are what they are Bengali Keralite,Bihari & NO WAY THEY HAVE SAME GENES,
Look & other things are external manifestations of genes,thats why appearence is a rough ,way of describing descendents.

ISN'T IT A JOKE & RIDICULOUS INDO PAK IDIOCY TO COMNNECT THEM SELVES TO ONLY TWO PERSON ZAINUl ABEDIN,HASSAN OR MAY BE HUSSAIN ,ALI.
What about Abu baqar siddique(r.a) Omer Farooq(r.a.)Osman(r.A.) No takers for them,Ridiculous ,There were other fertile muslims of that era than aLL being from Zainul Abedin & Hassan hussain,.as if rest were impotent !!!

Yun to Mirza bhi ho Afghan Bhi ho Syed bhi Aur Pathan bhi ho ,batao ke mussalman bhi ho ke nahi??Lets stop this ridiculos divisive post ,Those shijra is for your personasl use & KEEP IT PERSONAL NOT OPEN FORUM DISCUSION.
I 'm supposed to be Syed too ,but i dont believe its authenticity!

Negahe Marde Momin Se Badal Jate Hai Taqdeeren

99

Okay bro…I am a “selfish Syed wanna be”. I confess.

100

I CHALLENGE YOU ALL

I have read all three pages rerding the discussion about syeds,caste system, hindu culture.

I have read many statements denoucing all the above. but can tell you with practical experience that this is no more than talk.

Wait till you come up with a practical issue like i pointed out about marriages to non syeds especially a syed girl marrying a non syed man. It becomes a totally different ball game.

All of you may be coz of education or other influences are saying and talking about equal opps but your fathers and mothers may not agree on this.

There view is that syeds are better than all the rest, it does not matter about deeds they will get heaven just by being related, non syeds are less than syeds. (This and other things have been said to me by a person who stated she loved me the most)

All the views you all are stating changed when her and his daughter stated that she wanted to marry me.( i am a non syed but Imam Hussains pbuh wife comes from my Gakhar/Kiani. family)

Wait till you come to a practical issue your views will cahnge.

Or you can all do me a favour by telling all your elders that that every one is equal in Islam.

YOu can change my views by obtaining a Fatwa stating that it is possible.

( Recently a syed girl married a non syed, only the mother gave consent, the family members through influence obtained a Fatwa stating that it was un lawful and any one who does will be killed and also any one who assists. This fatwa was given by a Shia maulvi from Sargodha region of pakistan)

See if you can get a Fatwa to say that it is possible!!

That is my challenge to you who speak of equality!!!!!!!!! from a shia a scholar if possible!!!

Send me an email at [email protected] when you have been succesful.

Proove all of us wrong that the people who are descendants of the Imams are up to the task.

Prooving me wrong will enforce the idea that the caste system does not exist in Muslims

( I hope you can)

BE SUCCESSFUL FOR GOD SAKES

REMEMBER NTHE LAST ADDRESS OF THE PROPHET AND ITS HUMAN RIGHTS CHARTER!!!!!

[This message has been edited by MAN CHALA (edited January 26, 2001).]