Re: Suicide bombing attack near Prophet Mohammed PBUH's mosque in Madinah - 07/04/201
That's not what is being said.
Are you willing to suggest, or be bullied into a position, that proclaims (not even opines) that what motivated the Gujrat attacks was *Hinduism: *the ideas, practices, rituals...
I am willing to suggest that hatred borne out of religious differences was the root cause.
Over religiosity played a role. Hindu nationalists wanting to exert their power and show who is the boss.
But you made a great point - I can't say it was Hinduism - the ideas, practices, rituals were responsible.
Somi I see your point - similarly, the ideas and philosophy of Islam probably are not responsible.
Re: Suicide bombing attack near Prophet Mohammed PBUH's mosque in Madinah - 07/04/201
If Christian, Jews, etc were taking their books verbatim and following it as it was written - then yes they would be called Christian, Jews, etc.
I have no doubt in my mind that these fundamentalist Islamic morons are following the 5 pillars of Islam, they fast all through Ramadan, pray 5 times a day, etc... in short, they ARE better Muslims than I am, so yeah they are Muslim, if anything I shouldn't call myself a Muslim.
I used to work with a seeda saada Muslim - very proper and did everything as he should (prayers, fasts, etc) but made comments like "I'll decide if my wife is allowed to work".. Because that's how he interpreted the Quran, that it is his duty to tell his wife what to do. He was a better Muslim than me.
Re: Suicide bombing attack near Prophet Mohammed PBUH's mosque in Madinah - 07/04/201
BTW, when ISIS says that they will destroy Ka'aba in Makkah because people worship stone, are they still considered "Muslims"?
In MY opinion, yes. Isn't idol worship forbidden in Islam? So again, they are following the Quran VERY literally.
BTW: Quran (6:151) " ... take not life, which Allah hath made sacred, except by way of justice and law... "
IDK... The below just seems so contradictory...
The Quran (2:216)Fighting jihad (and killing kuffar) for Allah is ordained for you. It is in your best interest even if you hate it.Any Muslim disobeying this order of Allah for waging jihad against the kafirs is to be punished because he is a kafir.Quran 9.38:You who believe! What is the matter with you, that when you are asked to march forth for jihad for Allah, you cling heavily to the earth?Quran* 9.39:*If you will not go forth to fight in the cause of ALLAH, you will be given a painful punishment.It is the duty of a Muslim to kill kuffar:9.5 Kill kuffar wherever you find them.
Re: Suicide bombing attack near Prophet Mohammed PBUH's mosque in Madinah - 07/04/201
In MY opinion, yes. Isn't idol worship forbidden in Islam? So again, they are following the Quran VERY literally.
IDK... The below just seems so contradictory...
The Quran (2:216)Fighting jihad (and killing kuffar) for Allah is ordained for you. It is in your best interest even if you hate it.Any Muslim disobeying this order of Allah for waging jihad against the kafirs is to be punished because he is a kafir.Quran 9.38:You who believe! What is the matter with you, that when you are asked to march forth for jihad for Allah, you cling heavily to the earth?Quran* 9.39:*If you will not go forth to fight in the cause of ALLAH, you will be given a painful punishment.It is the duty of a Muslim to kill kuffar:9.5 Kill kuffar wherever you find them.
If you follow any form of written text VERY literally, you'd find yourself in a mess.
BTW, I wonder if you ever heard of a term called 'context'?
Re: Suicide bombing attack near Prophet Mohammed PBUH's mosque in Madinah - 07/04/201
*If you follow any form of written text VERY literally, you'd find yourself in a mess. *
BTW, I wonder if you ever heard of a term called 'context'?
Ain't that the point, bro? It is impossible to follow any scripture literally without confusing ourselves further. Hence, it is as useful as self-help talk. You use what appeals to you the most, context or no context. We take a lot of things out of context when it comes to others but we cry when people read Quran out of context. If context is required to understand a message that is supposed to be understood by all average folks of the world then religion has clearly failed mankind.
Re: Suicide bombing attack near Prophet Mohammed PBUH's mosque in Madinah - 07/04/201
...If context is required to understand a message that is supposed to be understood by all average folks of the world then religion has clearly failed mankind.
Context is required to understand any piece of text.
Some people say Theorist is a terrible person but it is a very wrong perception.
Re: Suicide bombing attack near Prophet Mohammed PBUH's mosque in Madinah - 07/04/201
Context is required to understand any piece of text.
Some people say Theorist is a terrible person but it is a very wrong perception.
But the whole context is in one sentence. This is usually not the case with religious texts. There are command like verses that have no context provided in the same verse. How far does one have to read to find context? I know there are many seemingly violent verses that are indeed taken out of context but we also ignore context of the peaceful verses that are followed by violent ones. Basically, we read and understand what validates our thoughts and feelings. Unfortunately, anyone can manipulate a gullibe mind with either type of verses. That is dangerous and is the reason I would like all of our scholars to condemn and admit the violence that exists in Islam
Re: Suicide bombing attack near Prophet Mohammed PBUH's mosque in Madinah - 07/04/201
...I know there are many seemingly violent verses that are indeed taken out of context but we also ignore context of the peaceful verses that are followed by violent ones. Basically, we read and understand what validates our thoughts and feelings. Unfortunately, anyone can manipulate a gullibe mind with either type of verses. ...
This is an improvement on 'religion has failed mankind'. Thank you.
The criminals use these verses out-of-context to brainwash minds.
Anti-Islam people also use the same verses out-of-context to prove that Islam is inherently violent.
Same approach is used for different ends. Can we hold one true and other false? I would suggest both ideas are based on malicious intent.
Re: Suicide bombing attack near Prophet Mohammed PBUH's mosque in Madinah - 07/04/201
Few years back, there were some GS folks who did take the literal interpretation re certain punishments prescribed for certain sins. When challenged, they would fall on the logic that one cannot challenge anything written, as it is perfect.
The above approach is more nuanced. And frowns upon the literal interpretation.
Question is - what percent have the above viewes, which are benign.
Re: Suicide bombing attack near Prophet Mohammed PBUH's mosque in Madinah - 07/04/201
Guys what are you into? This is not only about interpretation, this is also about selection of certain text of books in order to achieve certain goals be it political, economical or anything. Islam is the second largest religion in terms of followers, if fault lies in a book then why it's followers are peace loving? Point is- understand the problem of communalism and religious extremism. Somewhere it is for political/geopolitical reasons, somewhere it is for economical domination, somewhere for imposing an ideology. If there is tons of radicalization stuff of any religion (again what I said emphasizing selective text of any religion over major part of the text/book thereby diluting the core values, essence and message of the book) some people will get radicalized, it is very obvious.
Re: Suicide bombing attack near Prophet Mohammed PBUH's mosque in Madinah - 07/04/201
This is an improvement on 'religion has failed mankind'. Thank you.
The criminals use these verses out-of-context to brainwash minds.
Anti-Islam people also use the same verses out-of-context to prove that Islam is inherently violent.
Same approach is used for different ends. Can we hold one true and other false? I would suggest both ideas are based on malicious intent.
Wow, ok. It isn't about whether Islam is inherently violent or not, it's about our gullible youth that has not yet taken any sides. If those hell bent on destruction get hold of our youth, it's game over. Why do we leave these loopholes open for the evil a-holes to play with, why not shut them once and for all? Why do we continue to talk our way out of any change that actually needs to happen? Typical. No wonder we are centuries behind morally and otherwise. We refuse to change our attitude no matter how damaging it is to us and the world.
Re: Suicide bombing attack near Prophet Mohammed PBUH's mosque in Madinah - 07/04/201
Wow, ok. It isn't about whether Islam is inherently violent or not, it's about our gullible youth that has not yet taken any sides. If those hell bent on destruction get hold of our youth, it's game over. Why do we leave these loopholes open for the evil a-holes to play with, why not shut them once and for all? Why do we continue to talk our way out of any change that actually needs to happen? Typical. No wonder we are centuries behind morally and otherwise. We refuse to change our attitude no matter how damaging it is to us and the world.
I am not anti-Islam, I am anti stupidity.
No Muslim can sympathize with the terrorists tried to storm Madina.
There is general understanding among Muslims that these terrorists are US agencies supported. That may not be entirely correct but is easy to buy considering Muslims know what US has done to Muslim countries.
Re: Suicide bombing attack near Prophet Mohammed PBUH's mosque in Madinah - 07/04/201
Ain't that the point, bro? It is impossible to follow any scripture literally without confusing ourselves further. Hence, it is as useful as self-help talk. You use what appeals to you the most, context or no context. We take a lot of things out of context when it comes to others but we cry when people read Quran out of context. If context is required to understand a message that is supposed to be understood by all average folks of the world then religion has clearly failed mankind.
But the whole context is in one sentence. This is usually not the case with religious texts. There are command like verses that have no context provided in the same verse. How far does one have to read to find context? I know there are many seemingly violent verses that are indeed taken out of context but we also ignore context of the peaceful verses that are followed by violent ones. Basically, we read and understand what validates our thoughts and feelings. Unfortunately, anyone can manipulate a gullibe mind with either type of verses. That is dangerous and is the reason I would like all of our scholars to condemn and admit the violence that exists in Islam
Thank You.
People will interpret things differently.
The Quran says dress moderately - well my moderate is a knee length skirt, someone else's moderate is showing no skin, and another person's is covering EVERYTHING with a niqab.
Some people think keeping a dog as a pet is haram yet Islam also teaches to be merciful to "all creatures". Nowhere does it say that dogs are haram yet somewhere people have deemed keeping dogs haram. Explain the logic?
This all goes back to my original point that these people (read: Terrorists) have taken the Quran literally and refuse to evolve. Any context provided in the Quran is based on living over a thousand years ago.
What context should people use? It's very subjective.
Re: Suicide bombing attack near Prophet Mohammed PBUH’s mosque in Madinah - 07/04/201
Are you talking about me or yourself? As far as I know, you are the one who went from talking about context to indirectly accusing me of being anti-Islam.
As far as I know, you are the one who went from talking about context to indirectly accusing me of being anti-Islam.