Students in American Universities should temper their views - Split from China thread

Re: Students in American Universities should temper their views - Split from China th

Like I said earlier, I could care less for China. I never stated that I want them to whip the US (like that is ever going to happen :hehe: ) I deplore the loss of innocent life everywhere, be they American or Hungarian.

OG, scamming US financial system for scholarships? Wow, could you please elaborate, I would like to add to my list of scams. Like ravage said, it’s a two way street, with obvious great benefits to the US which is why there is a student visa in the first place. The day that stops being the case, and the day the International students become too much of a burden :rolleyes: to these “subsidized universities”, will be the last day a foreign student enters the US.

Re: Students in American Universities should temper their views - Split from China thread

Wow you found overachiever named Aurangzeb. OG? People named Aurangzeb’s are usually dickless wonders.

Moral of the story is…there are many foreign students who come here, there intellects are needed for research and due to sheer shortage vis-a-vis capital available for particular studies. Fine… 99% of them are thankful for being presented this opportunity, 1% are like irem who are just naiive and ungrateful souls..and that is great.

Re: Students in American Universities should temper their views - Split from China thread

"The day that stops being the case, and the day the International students become too much of a burden to these "subsidized universities", will be the last day a foreign student enters the US."

Stop flattering yourself. The point is that post 9/11 Muslim students are under a much greater scutiny, ask Irem and Pakora. There is still an extraordinary demand from other parts of the world, parts of the world where anti-Americanism is not rampant. To the extent that Muslims are shut out of good Universities, (and just so we all recognize it, ALL countries are giving Muslim students much greater scutiny), Muslims will suffer far more than the US, as there is a huge demand for US educations from other parts of the world.

Now no one is saying that speaking ones mind about international affairs is anything other than a God given right. But in thread after thread, ignorant boys and girls refuse to understand that the University system here is not their birthright because they have rich daddys, or they have half a brain. A few egotistical little snots somehow think that the US will not carry on without them, and that they are irreplacable cogs in a big machine. Once you have some work experience, you will realize that there is no shortage of high powered brains, and that a bad attitude outweighs intelligence in the grand scheme of things.

Ask Irem what it is like to not be able to complete an education. Thank OBL, radical and violent politics, and terrorists for your plight. The Muslim world will get further behind the rest of the world in advanced education because it is impossible to know what is in the heart of a man, whether he means harm or good. Irem, in my previous conversations with you, you were very greatful to your university for your scholarship. But you were completely ignorant about how dependent Universities are in virtually every way on the government for support. You refused to acknowledge that the government had anything to do with your good fortune. After your visa was denied, your tune changed a bit.

Students who are here should carefully balance their feelings, and public statements. I can tell you that I would have personally forwarded a few choice comments here to a dean or two if I had known what school they were attending. Ya need to watch who you pi$$ off sometimes, and particularly in the field of international politics, realize that over time, you may be proven wrong! If your parents did not teach you how to be a polite guest, pick up the cliff notes....

Re: Students in American Universities should temper their views - Split from China thread

woah .. lots to parse thru. thanks for your responses folks, i'll respond when i wake up.

gnite..gday..whatever..

Re: Students in American Universities should temper their views - Split from China thread

“let them stay in their own country and let them build their own Muslim nations? There will be no brain drain and in a few decades the Muslim countries will all develop and become stronger than America coz these bright students will be forced to stay in their own countries and contribute there America will then have a bigger problem and a stronger enemy to reckon with.”

And Irem, think before you type.

Here is the income summary from your beloved Stanford:

“In 2003-2004, Stanford is a $2.3 billion enterprise. This figure represents the university’s consolidated budget for operations, a compilation of all annual operating and restricted budgets that support teaching, scholarship and research, including the budgets of all schools and administrative areas and the Stanford Linear Accelerator Center. It does not include the capital budget or the budget for hospital and clinical services. The capital budget for 2003-2004 is $152 million.”
http://www.stanford.edu/home/stanford/facts/finances.html

This is entirely my point. Stanford is one of probably 300 world class Universities in the US. It has an operating budget of $2.3 Billion per year. How many Universities like this could Pakistan afford? Never mind the fact that it would take decades to build, as if the rest of the world were going to mark time in the interim. Now please rethink for me who is getting the bargain here. Your brave words ring a little hollow dear…

Re: Students in American Universities should temper their views - Split from China thread

“After your visa was denied”

when did that happen? :konfused: I didn’t even apply for an American visa since 1998 :rolleyes:

And I have no qualms about my views OG. I’ll say them on GS and I’ll say them in front of anyone else coz they are indeed the truth and one should never be afraid to speak the truth :slight_smile: That is indeed what my parents have taught me, to be an honest person.
Please try to counter the arguments I have preented abt American foreign policy and why Muslims are displeased with it rather than getting personal :stuck_out_tongue:

“Ask Irem what it is like to not be able to complete an education.”

I have already completed my basic education and I will study further if & when I wish to :slight_smile:

"Students who are here should carefully balance their feelings, and public statements."

Its not about feelings. Its about facts. And my public or private statements are based on my honest opinion.

Re: Students in American Universities should temper their views - Split from China thread

OG I never thought that. Surely, the university could have functioned without me, in fact maybe even better, I was far from the perfect model student. So I certainly do not believe that, neither do I perceive myself as extraordinary in any way.

Firstly, my visa was never denied.
Secondly, I did not know the govt played a role but after you told me the facts I accepted them.

HOWEVER, nothing about my approach or views in this matter has changed.

I did not and still do not support the policies of the American govt and if the govt was behind the funding of my university it does not mean I have to start supporting its policies. There is a difference between right and wrong and I cannot sell my conscience for anything. Our religion has taught us to be just and truthful. I can’t start lying and calling black white to appease ANYONE coz I only want to appease GOD and no one should expect anyone to be dishonest/unjust in return of a “favor”.

B/c I have been a guest in America for 5 years, I always have a soft spot for Americans when I see them in Pakistan and always try to show them hospitality. But I’ll never say that what is happenning in Palestine is OK or that I support blind American support of Israel.

Re: Students in American Universities should temper their views - Split from China thread

Glad to here theat you have not been denied a visa yet. Let me know if I can write a letter or something commenting on your apprecaition and contribution to our country!

"One issue that I'm specifically concerned about is funding. I was on a full scholarship for my undergrad so technically I did not have to pay anything from my own pocket. Right now the maximum I can contribute towards grad school from my own pocket is just the fee for one semester, as GRE costs, application costs and then travel and visa expenses etc themselves add up to quite a bit. (I know a bank statement is required for the visa, and inshallah that should be OK to secure a sponsor for that purpose but that won't help me towards my actual fee.)

In undergrad, I only knew about some Indo-Pak grad students who almost all, were being financed by the university, and used to get TA (teaching assistantship) and RA (research assistantship) from the uni. They were on contract for N number of quarters and had to find new TA and RA ships once the ones they had were over. They were all either in Computer Science or Electrical Engineering and you can easily get TA and RA ships in these two departments usually. I won't be applying to these two depts though."

Apparentlly you now wish to be employed and subsidized by the government with whom you so completely disagree. Perhaps Canada is a better choice.

Re: Students in American Universities should temper their views - Split from China thread

OG yes I completely disagree with American foreign policy and yes I can still wish to study in an American university. If I'm asked to sign a statement that says "I support American foreign policy" before sending in my acceptance letter to my university, I'd seriously have to think about it and might actually give up my admission.

And btw I will be applying for grad school next year probably unless life takes on a different direction by then :p

I can try to be a law abiding citizen in any country I go to. Thats what I owe to that country. I owe correct behavior to my host country in terms of my actions, but I do not owe anyone my conscience :)

Re: Students in American Universities should temper their views - Split from China thread

haha OG, are you threatening students? like get out :rolleyes:

Re: Students in American Universities should temper their views - Split from China thread

^^

nobody can harm anyone except with the will of God so who's scared by anyone's threats? :p

anyways OG, rather than coming up with personal attacks and such stuff you might want to answer the points that have been raised about American foreign policy and why Muslims think it is unjust. If you can justify the American policies with sound reasoning and fair logic, you might be able to convince more people :)

Re: Students in American Universities should temper their views - Split from China thread

true, im sure noone gonna lose sleep over it, but his comments were pathetic.

Re: Students in American Universities should temper their views - Split from China thread

Oh Ma, that Freedom of Speech stuff is sort of a double edged sword eh? Non-citizens get full ride scholarships and speak out against our government, and I do not have the right to speak out against my tax dollars being used to educate people who can't find it in their heart to say a good word about the positive aspects of our government?

Frankly Irem is sort of a dear girl.

I find a few of the other ingrates much more offensive, and yes I feel strongly enough that if a local student made a fuss I would certainly be writing a bunch of letters. To imagine that Americans have to take all the Anti-American venom and still continue to open our doors to selfish children is a bit unrealistic. In case you have not noticed, over the past year or two more American Guppy posters have joined together in this issue more than any other. A brief look at some of the comments from some other foreign students will tell you why my personal hostillity level jumped.

Words do have consequences... My wife was an alumni officer at a university until recently. I can tell you that after reading some of the snide comments from students here that she steered alumni away from donating to the fund for foreign scholarships.

Welcome to blowback.

Re: Students in American Universities should temper their views - Split from China thread

OG with all due respect to your wife but if your wife did that I think thats unfair :slight_smile:

She could have steered funds away from foreign students if they were performing badly in universities as a group, or if they were too frequently breaking the law. However, I don’t think their political opinions (which they very much justify with reason) should have caused that.

Anyways.

When did I say I have nothing positive to say about your govt :stuck_out_tongue: I like the fact that America does so much volunteer work around the world. She sent lots of aid to Tsunami victims recently. That’s appreciable. The freedom of speech thing is also appreciable. There’s other good stuff too. You guys run a very efficient and smooth govt. That’s appreciable as well, something which we could surely learn from. I like the fact that you guys stick to the law. That’s cool too. I’m not gona lie and say that everything is bad. What’s good is good and no harm in accepting that. But I’m not going to say what I find offensive is okay as well, because it IS wrong. Your governent’s blind support for Israel IS wrong. Your government’s meddling in private affairs of Muslim countries IS wrong.

Am I anti-American? Did I ever say I hate Americans and I want to kill any American I meet? I don’t think so :slight_smile: In fact, usually I try to make an extra effort to be more friendly with Americans, coz I was a guest in their country. I have a lot of fond memories of America, how can I hate it?

That stuff is different but OG please try to understand that Governmental foreign policy is different.

And how you classify my attitude as selfish is something that escapes me :confused: Please do tell me, coz I abhor selfishness, and if indeed I am being selfish then tell me how coz I would like to change myself in that case.

:slight_smile:

Re: Students in American Universities should temper their views - Split from China thread

Yeah they were :snooty: but its OK I guess :smiley: mitti pao :smiley:

(OG, mitti pao means dont worry abt it, foreget it)

Re: Students in American Universities should temper their views - Split from China thread

Oh Irem, it is worse than you think!

My wife did an email of Gupshup comments to her entire department. Universally they were appalled. It was not just my wife, or me, people who worked daily to build a University were absolutely horrified by some of the attitudes displayed on Gupshup.

You clearly do not understand the depth of Americans sensitivities to this issue. You are so clearly in your own little self-righteous zone that you do not realize how offensive your comments can be.

Re: Students in American Universities should temper their views - Split from China thread

Ummmm then explain why OG :confused:

I mean, so if I say that American foreign policy is unjust, that’s offensive…?

Fine, I’ll take a step further from my earlier stance, I’ll even say partial thanks to the USA government for my education, but still, tell me, how can I kill my conscience and support somethings that is clearly unjust? HOW? That’s just WRONG!

Re: Students in American Universities should temper their views - Split from China thread

^^ OOOOO pulling another all-nighter, it's ok we are only busting chops.

Re: Students in American Universities should temper their views - Split from China thread

^^
certain sorrows of my life have stolen sleep from my eyes :teary2:
i couldn’t sleep Verizon uncle so i got up from the bed n now i’m jus killing time here :halo:

Re: Students in American Universities should temper their views - Split from China thread

Irem US For Pol is not unjust, I used to think that way as well, but its not. there are 191 countries and they all need to be dealt differently. Problem is Muslims try to lump their issues together and expect US to resolve them under For Pol and it aint happening, plus sweetie after the christian chinese, just give it up. Nite Nite.