Students in American Universities should temper their views - Split from China thread

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
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Re: Students in American Universities should temper their views - Split from China thread

"2 pakis, 1 moroccon, and one Argentinian."

A lot of semiconductor companies in Moroco? They will all make excellent Americans. And "Murphy" is probably only a generation or two removed from Ireland anyway... Didn't notice any "Murphys" signing the Declaration of Independence. After the Potato Famine nobody liked "Murphys" family coming over here and working for cheap. The Republic seems to have survived....

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Re: Students in American Universities should temper their views - Split from China thread

wow :smiley: everyone is talking abt me :smiley: i’m flatterred :smiley: :hehe:

guys, seriously, who cares abt all this…

i have one philosophy in life :smiley:

khai piyo aysh karo

eat & sleep well and enjoy life…

thats it :smiley:

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Re: Students in American Universities should temper their views - Split from China th

I did not start this thread. That's a bit misleading.

Excellent analysis, OG. Irem has never been shy about the notion of taking everything she gets out of U.S. back to Pakistan.

The very least thing she would owe? The simple graciousness of a polite guest?

Rather she and others would wish the U.S. to be on the losing end of a calamitous conflict with China. Even the Chinese students here wouldn't say such a thing, I'd venture. What I find amazing is that simply questioning this attitude is met with such indignance. This seems to be representative of many Muslim students' attitude toward study in Americy-study there, live among its people, experience many of the good things available here, but never, ever for a moment acknowledge any of it as positive. These will side with China, apologize for, support or even participate in terrorism against the U.S. If hypocrisy is the ultimate crime on Gupshup, shouldn't this type of parasitic student be locked away. I say spare yourself from the guilt of such hypocrisy and stay the fcuk out.

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Re: Students in American Universities should temper their views - Split from China thread

Wow you are smart, figured out I went to an Irish Catholic School. And you are right, all four ended up getting jobs in US by the US companies and they lived happily ever after, and all four never complained or b1tched about US education system, we were just happy and thankful to US for giving us the opportunity to better our selves and pursue our dreams.

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Re: Students in American Universities should temper their views - Split from China thread

Its laughable watching all these American residents falling over themselves trying to claim some sort of moral high ground or squeeze out every ounce of “appreciation” just because they happend to be privileged with the presence of foreign minds. Just because we studied here doesn’t mean we sold our souls to the US, and we can support whoever the hell we want to be it insurgents or China.

If you don’t like it, write to your congressman and kick us all out. :hehe:

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Re: Students in American Universities should temper their views - Split from China thread

^^ Would it be communist china or christian china that you are supporting? Just curious if you are attending Stanford as well.

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Re: Students in American Universities should temper their views - Split from China th

LOL, to be honest I care even less about China than the US. However, I am not from Stanford, so I do know that China is not Christian, they are just infidels :D

Free GPRS trick?
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Re: Students in American Universities should temper their views - Split from China thread

No Yaar, you shouldn't say that pretty soon China is gonna take over US and all the foregin students will be flocking to China for good education in sciences and falun gong. Chinese dont like criticism and dont take it well either. It will be interesting to see the Chinese hospitality when their roting education system is criticized and they sense thanklessness.
I am very happy for you that you stayed away from Stanford, not a good school if they teach propaganda about christian chinese.

A question for Irem, Are Falun Gong Jews?

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Re: Students in American Universities should temper their views - Split from China thread

yeesh i dont even know whats relevant and isnt :-/

alrite thread abandoned. once again, if anyone addressed my point that american unis depend on foreign students like me and irem etc to get their research done and thus there is a two way relationship of benefit, i'd like to get the answer that seems to have been lost in all this.

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Re: Students in American Universities should temper their views - Split from China thread

^^ Higher education in US is also run on capitalism in mind, US Govt does fund with grants, loans etc. Do they need foreign students, yes and no. But US uni's are attractive and ppl prefer to come and get their education here. I mean the first preference is US in most cases, one offs go to UK and other places. I mean how many paki students opted to go to AL-Azhar University in Cairo or Jeddah institute of religious technologies?
And US unis dont depend on foreign students to do their research necessarily. They do actively seek best of the best from other countries and bring them here, but nothing wrong with that, actually it is a good thing and promotes a good melting pot of ideas from all over the world.

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Re: Students in American Universities should temper their views - Split from China thread

Yes American Univs depend on foreign students but NOT for finance

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Re: Students in American Universities should temper their views - Split from China thread

^ actually post 9/11 most foreign students are turning away from the US, UK is becomin the top destination.

and yes they do need foreign students to attend, there was an outcry recently in the UK when the gov. merely increased the visa renewal fee for foriegn students. Uni’s were afraid they’d have to close down departments, they even agreed to pay the extra fee so students dunn turn away from them, that is how dependant they are, my friend. and to think its beneficial in one way is pretty arrogant. Its like customers are always right, and like it or not, students are the customers here whilst unis are merely providing the service.

bottom line, Unis need these guys financially to survive. read these articles an u’ll get an idea of how badly.

**Universities warn visa price rise will cut income
**http://education.guardian.co.uk/students/overseasstudents/story/0,12743,1400856,00.html

Visa fees ‘will deter overseas students’
http://education.guardian.co.uk/students/overseasstudents/story/0,12743,1400710,00.html

Students to take visa protest to No 10
http://education.guardian.co.uk/students/overseasstudents/story/0,12743,1420285,00.html

Warning over plans to increase student visa charges
http://education.guardian.co.uk/students/overseasstudents/story/0,12743,1362022,00.html

The Colour Red
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Re: Students in American Universities should temper their views - Split from China thread

this thread isnt about how american unis operate but whether or not foreign students owe it to america to temper their views. if it was just about students getting subsidized education, getting cushy jobs and whatnot, maybe. but universities benefit from us helping them financially and in maintaining their technological base. so it works both ways.

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Re: Students in American Universities should temper their views - Split from China th

You high-end “foreign minds” have trouble grasping this one simple thing.

It’s not really “appreciation” we’re looking for. Could you just not be complete assholes?( those of you that want China to kick our asses in WWIII) That’s really it. Could be asking too much I guess.

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Re: Students in American Universities should temper their views - Split from China th

i dont want to sidetrack the discusion but let me just quote what Hadrat Ali ra had to say about respecting teachers:
" I am the slave of him who teaches me one letter of the alphabet. If he wishes, he may sell me, if he so desires, he may set me free; and if cares to, he may deploy me as a slave."
So yes we owe a lot to our american/foreign teachers, but imo there needs to be moderation when it comes to dealing with foreign policy. They are two seperate things. If one lets the policy dictate his attitude towards teachers, then thats retarted.

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Re: Students in American Universities should temper their views - Split from China thread

very true lunatic. good quote and good point.

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Re: Students in American Universities should temper their views - Split from China th

im back in the thread to reply to everyone :D

   firstly, let me make a few things clear:

i am thankful to my university which paid for my scholarship that allowed me to study in the usa and sponsored my visa to america. 

  i am thankful to my teachers as well. 

   i love my alma mater to bits. i am 500% loyal to it. 

   ******GO CARDINAL****** 

   ******GO CARDINAL****** 

   ******GO CARDINAL******

i get emotional even thinking abt the place. thats how much i love it. there's nothing but fond memories in my heart for my uni. i miss it a lot. i miss the campus. i miss my friends. dont even get me started :D

the relationship b/w foreign students and american colleges is a mutually beneficial one. they both benefit each other. the universities help the students progress in their personal lives and the students contribute their presence to these colleges (it goes to the credit of these colleges and helps in maintaining their prestige that the best students from the world attend there. not talking abt myself, but generally). these students also help the unis in research, and in many cases pay heavy fees as well.

i have nothing against American people, in fact i have Alhamdulillah had very good experiences with them and think of them (mostly) as friendly and open minded

i was protesting American policies even while i was IN college in America. i was leading the Muslim students political organisation on campus at one point and we organised many rallies/protests and other events to protest American foreign policy on different issues. i have never been hypocritical and untruthful abt my political opinions. in fact i tried to represent the Muslim point of view truthfully. coz only when there is sincere dialogue can there be reconciliation.

just b/c i studied in America doesn't mean i have to become a supporter of American govt policies. Even political opinion of American natives in America is divided. i am a Pakistani but i don't even support all policies of the Pak gov including many things in Pak foreign policy and that doesn't mean i am any less of a paki.

the issue under discussion was China vs. USA and who should pak side with. at the country/international level, China has been a more gracious and helpful friend to Pakistan than the USA and we owe it to them to side with them.
either way, i would hate to see innocent ppl die, no matter what their nationality or religion.

   **OG** its a two way road. u dont want Muslim students to be trained in nuclear physics at MIT. ok, understandable. Americans fear Muslims.
   my point though is:

IF America was just in its foreign policy and fair to Muslim counties, are Muslim countries stupid to have animosity towards America?
u reap what u sow.
Please try to understand that there are REASONS why Muslim countries dont like America. I already mentioned the reasons in another thread, I'll mention them here again.
America's blind support for Israel.
America's meddling in internal affairs of Muslim countries and waging wars which result in civilian deaths. (Afghanistan, Iraq)
Can you justify the above with good reason?
p.s. ur bro in law works in SLAC? thats cool :D

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Re: Students in American Universities should temper their views - Split from China thread

Ravage,

Storch and I are largely reacting to previous threads, and some of the implications of those threads. Let me address some of those unresolved issues, and confront a few others.

I agree with Irems new found specificity. She now states that she disagrees with the "Foreign Policy of the United States". OK fine.

In previous threads there was quite the reverse, a loyalty to her school and faculty, but a gross misunderstanding of the nature of how a magnificent university system is built. The government, the nasty cold hearted, jew loving, baby killing American government is largely responsible for the health of Americas University system today.

As I pointed out, above, very little income in a great number of Universities comes out of the pockets of students. Endowments gain interest tax free, research grants(more on this later) are largely from the governement. research grant from industry constitute tax deductions for industry. Universities do not pay state taxes. Planned giving to endowments avoids estate taxes. Low cost government subsidized student loans enable lots of kids to go to school and support the university. I could give you 20 other examples of where the government of the US, and the citizens of the US built fabulous facilities open to all over the course of literally centuries.

Some of the snot nosed little kids around here think buying an education is like buying a happy meal. Ask yourself how huge libraries, and campuses and research labs got built! It is literally the commitment of the govenement, the alumni, and the ongoing commitment of the United States public. Storch and I have been reacting to the notion that some kid shows up with his daddys bucket of money, or worse yet scams the American scholarship system for money, then expects that WE should be thankful he is here. The financial reality is that foreign student pay more than US sudents in general. BUT THEY ARE STILL PAYING A FRACTION OF A FRACTION OF THE REAL COST OF THE EDUCATION.

Research grants are a different story. Somehow we should consider ourselves "lucky" that we have foreign students to do our research? First, researchers are largely paid as Graduate Assistants. Second, research grants are the best of the best in a University. Someone else is paying researchers to do what they want to do. Third, without research money a lot of kids educations would end, and people would have to get "real" jobs. Research grants allow scholars to publish, and contribute to the world body of knowledge. Getting your name on a good publication is a golden ticket to a good job. To my way of thinking the opportunity to do cutting edge research and getting paid for it is one hell of an opportunity for the student. Regardless of what you think, the student is getting the best of the bargain.

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Re: Students in American Universities should temper their views - Split from China th

OG

"Irems new found specificity. She now states that she disagrees with the “Foreign Policy of the United States”. OK fine. "

:konfused:

its not new found :stuck_out_tongue: you can dig up my old comments in my threads. i have always been very specific abt the fact that its American foreign policy i disagree with.

and btw, your point taken that American govt is financing these magnificent academic institutions. fine.
but:
the Muslim students in America do NOT lie about their political opinions. Everyone in America knows what they think. go to any campus where there are Muslim students and you will see. Why then is the American government still allowing them to come to their country? Its obvious : Coz America hersef benefits from them. That the student gets the best of the bargain is your opinion. I think they both benefit from each other equally. no one is doing anyone a favor here.

Why don’t you stop them from coming and let them stay in their own country and let them build their own Muslim nations? There will be no brain drain and in a few decades the Muslim countries will all develop and become stronger than America coz these bright students will be forced to stay in their own countries and contribute there :slight_smile: America will then have a bigger problem and a stronger enemy to reckon with.

if you are saying that just b/c a Muslim student has attended school in America, they should support American foreign policy, American govt and America at the level of international disputes then yes you are indeed expecting too much.

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Re: Students in American Universities should temper their views - Split from China thread

I found this CV of a Pakistani that I thought was interesting. Read it carefully. Will guys like this have the opportunity to fulfill their potential post 9/11? Maybe not. Could he qualify for a Visa today? Maybe not. So perhaps he goes to another University in Europe, maybe not.

Aurangzeb Khan, CVP Business Development & CTO, Worldwide Field Operations, CADENCE
Aurangzeb is CVP, Business Development & CTO in Worldwide Field Operations (WFO). He helps drive business development, contributes to the technology strategy, and leads the design and silicon engineering practices for Cadence. Earlier, Aurangzeb was CVP/GM for Cadence Design Foundry (now part of WFO), and focused on the IC design business, including IP development and integration. The group delivered ~100 SoC and IP-designs in the 6/02 –11/03 period with a ~97% rate of 1st silicon success®. Gartner Dataquest ranked CDF as the #1 IP provider in total networking, ethernet and other networking categories in 2003.

Earlier, Aurangzeb was EVP/GM for the IC design business at Simplex and served as the President and CEO of Altius (where he was a co-founder). He held senior engineering responsibilities at Cirrus Logic and Tandem Computers and was an IC design engineer at Fairchild.

Aurangzeb has contributed to several industry-first SoCs, including the TeraChip 160Gb/s Switch Fabric (ISSCC 2004) and the Infineon Technologies 40 Gb/s Framer Mapper Processor SoCs. The team delivered 33 (of 33) SOC designs with 1st Silicon Success®, including the Sony Computer Entertainment Graphics Synthesizer®I-32, which was the highest integration IC presented at ISSCC 2001 and which received the Gold Design Achievement Award at DAC 2001, and the PlayStation®2 Graphics Synthesizer SoC. The first single-chip integrations of system electronics for magnetic hard disk drives (3Ci™) and DVD recorders were presented in ISSCC 1999. EDN named 3Ci™ “Innovation of the Year” and IDC recognized it as a “Top 10” development.

Aurangzeb received an MS in Electrical Engineering and an MS in Engineering Management from Stanford University. He received a double-major BS from U.C. Berkeley, in EECS and Nuclear Engineering, and a B.Sc. in Physics and Mathematics from the University of the Punjab, in Lahore, Pakistan, where he was awarded the Academic Roll of Honour. Aurangzeb holds eight patents in high-speed circuit design. His interests include developing high technology businesses, and SoC and circuit design.