Students from abroad are welcomed/Mods please bring that thread back...

[Ohioguy]

Re: Students from abroad are welcomed and should come to the U.S. for studies

I can assure you ravage that this is a bare nerve with Americans. When criticism of America goes to far, Americans close ranks. Instead of being so defensive, you should ask yourself why Americans are jumping all over this issue on this board.

I'll say this again. No one minds if a student criticises American foreign policy. This country was built on dissent. But American hate to think we are being taken advantage of by guests. And plenty has appeared here to make us think that people that we have taken in not only have policy differences, but secretly hate us. This is the reaction you are seeing. Rest assured that those like my wife who are not so calloused to Gupshup find words here even more offensive...

[ravage]

Re: Students from abroad are welcomed and should come to the U.S. for studies

@Ohioguy

I can assure you ravage that this is a bare nerve with Americans. When criticism of America goes to far, Americans close ranks. Instead of being so defensive, you should ask yourself why Americans are jumping all over this issue on this board.

yeah, and thats probably true of people rather than nations. Pakistanis tend to close ranks too, which is why there is always such a ruckus on this forum on the things you folks go too far in dissing this country/religion on a pakistani forum.

I’ll say this again. No one minds if a student criticises American foreign policy. This country was built on dissent. But American hate to think we are being taken advantage of by guests. And plenty has appeared here to make us think that people that we have taken in not only have policy differences, but secretly hate us. This is the reaction you are seeing. Rest assured that those like my wife who are not so calloused to Gupshup find words here even more offensive…

rest assured that the suspicion of hatred isnt just limited to pakistani students. a lot of people assume that you folks hate pakistan/Islam and take advantage of a pakistani forum to express your hatred.

[mAd_ScIeNtIsT]

Re: Students from abroad are welcomed and should come to the U.S. for studies

For any country, bringing students from abroad is an act of diplomacy in itself, since nothing changes someone's viewpoint about a country more than living there for several years.

I always found it amusing that after 9/11 it became harder for students and academics from Muslim countries to get student visas (for students) and work permits (for academics) to attend universities in the US.

If you want the people of a country to view you positively, you should encourage the educated amongst them to live in your nation and experience your country and its people first hand. Otherwise, they will only ever view you in the way local media and local rumours present you to be.

When students go back to their home countries, in many cases (there are always exceptions) they will carry back a positive image of your country's people. And if the students stay in your country, then they act as a tie between their families in the home country and your own country. This links students families to your country as well.

[myvoice]

Re: Students from abroad are welcomed and should come to the U.S. for studies

Back to the topic if you don't mind.

It occurs to me that this thread is a good example of how the concept of Freedom of Speech is so misunderstood.

I've got the freedom to tell everybody in the world that it is my opinion that my boss is a liar, a cheat and a dirty rotten scoundrel. What I don't have a "right" to is my job. If I did such a thing, my boss has got every right in the world to fire me. If he does, that's not censorship or the deprivation of my right of free speech. You are free to say something but you are not free from suffering the repercussions.

I think our foreign student programs are generally very good and benefit our country and others. However, if some anti-American clown gets through the screening mechanisms and decides to go on an anti-American spouting binge on campus, it is not censorship or denial of free speech to take away the student visa and send them home.

And since no foreigner has the "right" to be educated in the US, I see nothing wrong with doing all you can to profile and screen out those who are most likely to be boorish SOBs. If people of a particular country or profile prove themselves to be problem kids, the repercussion to other similarly situated brothers and sisters is to deny them a student visa. That's not censorship or denial of free speech either. They can spout off in their own hometowns and don't need to be given a pulpit to do so at Stanford on the American taxpayer's dime.

As UTD says, there's nothing wrong with some level of dissent and I don't think the litmus test ought to be support for any particular President or any particular viewpoint. You don't have to like or admire the current President; but, I think you ought to have a favorable opinion of some past Presidents. You don't have to like every one of our foreign policies; but, you should be able to come up with a list of some US government actions/policies you admire. You don't have to assimilate with the American people but you should have a bona fide desire to learn about our own cultural diversity and respect it. And you should at least exhibit enough graciousness to thank the people and the system that provided you with the opporunity. IMO, that's not a lot to ask.

[skhan]

Re: Students from abroad are welcomed and should come to the U.S. for studies

@myvoice

As UTD says, there’s nothing wrong with some level of dissent and I don’t think the litmus test ought to be support for any particular President or any particular viewpoint. You don’t have to like or admire the current President; but, I think you ought to have a favorable opinion of some past Presidents. You don’t have to like every one of our foreign policies; but, you should be able to come up with a list of some US government actions/policies you admire. You don’t have to assimilate with the American people but you should have a bona fide desire to learn about our own cultural diversity and respect it. And you should at least exhibit enough graciousness to thank the people and the system that provided you with the opporunity. IMO, that’s not a lot to ask.

I agree with most of what you’re saying. However, I think some of the points you mentioned as pre-requisites for a student visa are a bit naive. As you said, it’s mutually beneficial for both the parties involved. If it wasn’t, then there wouldn’t be any concept of student visas in the first place.

It would be ridiculous to expect every foreign student to send out personal thank-you letters to all the professors and Immigration officials when he graduates, just like it would be ridiculous for the institutions to mail out appreciation letters to a student everytime he pays an outrageous tution bill.

As for agreeing with foreign policies, I think its irrelevant. Are you implying that from now on, student visa applications should have questions like:

“List atleast 3 Presidents you would have like to have dinner with.” Or “Circle ATLEAST FOUR prominent foreign policies that you agree with.”

If people resident Americans can have a difference of opinion with the government, then it’s certainly foolish to expect students coming from abroad to “suck up”. Most might not even give a damn. You get your money, research, good PR we get our education, we can both go along our merry way.

[abc1234]

Re: Students from abroad are welcomed and should come to the U.S. for studies

LOL

I wouldn't even have come into this thread had ravage not been spending his time trying to defend me here. thanks rav bro. lekin mitti pao kasam se it aint worth it. i dont even want you to waste a minute anymore in this thread.

These people are not even arguing sincerely. They are hiding their true intentions and feelings, so what's the point?

My thread in feedback was abut the white people and Indians (some of them, not all) who are on this board, and I already mentioned some in my opening post. It was not about all the white or indian people in the world. I'm pretty sure even a fifth grader can understand that.

I have nothing against GORAY or American people as I have said already. Tomorrow if a Muslim brother of mine is killing a white American without any fault, I would not let him. I respect ALL human beings. They are all creations of Allah. No one has the right to blame someone without fault.

America calls only the best students to America and that's a fact. Why isn't a C-grader or a flunkout from Pakistan or Iran called to America on a scholarship with a student visa? America is not doing a social service to ANYONE by calling the students she does to study there or the people she calls there to work there. This much is clear.

myvoice, Ohioguy, storch, Matsui I'm sorry I don't have time to reply yet again to the pointless things you have said about me without any basis or prove or on the basis of false assumptions, as I have done so before countlessly without any results. You are here with your own agenda, so go ahead, keep at it. It does not matter to me what you think or say about me anymore, as God knows the truth in everyone's hearts.
I didn't even read your entire posts b/c I know they're just filled with venom and the baseless accusations and assumptions were just making my blood pressure boil so it was not worth it. Good day and good bye!

[abc1234]

Re: Students from abroad are welcomed and should come to the U.S. for studies

@storch

Remember, this is who you are so defensive about, Ravage. She’s a real peach.

This attitude has been abundantly clear in her previous posts on the subject, though she only now is perhaps “facetiously” using stronger language.

Her right to express herself freely as a visiting student in the U.S. does in no way disqualify her from the opportunity she has had and perhaps will have again for grad school.

But 'gad, man have you read her posts: “Free trade w/India” the one in feedback you cited.

If your looking to make someone your cause celebre in your “Unfettered Access to Education” for Pakistani students campaign, you could do so much better.

The defense of her attitude doesn’t really help your argument.

Take a hike buddy. To the Himalayas. And get some fresh air. Really. It will do you a lot of good.

Don’t even take my name or refer to me with your biased and prejudiced im-holier-than-thou-and-i’m-high-and-mighty tongue.

[abc1234]

Re: Students from abroad are welcomed and should come to the U.S. for studies

@Matsui

Ravage, if someONE has issue with Irem, it is not because she is muslim or a Pakistani. It is because she is IREM. THESE white and Indian people don’t care if she was from fking pluto (although the mentality fits) or Pakistan.

I don’t even feel like talking to you after the things you have said in an earlier thread. There’s no need for me to defend myself in front of you or anyone as Allah knows the truth.

You have already exposed what you are really made of and what your reality is.

Your own words speak for you, I don’t even want to say anything.

[abc1234]

Re: Students from abroad are welcomed and should come to the U.S. for studies

@Seminole

Why the assumption? 1/3 of the US is non-white.
btw she might have included me in her cry baby complaint thread because I found her posts to be hypocritical and racist as well.

Open your mind and try to understand and peer a bit deeper Seminole, you might get it then.

[abc1234]

Re: Students from abroad are welcomed and should come to the U.S. for studies

@Ohioguy

Alternatively let us pose this solution.

As a matter of personal integrity, a student who absolutely disagrees with the Amermican Government should reject all grants, scholarships, loans, subsidies or jobs which might be paid for by the American government. Let us call this the “Consceitious Objector” option. This should make the student feel good about a high degree of personal integrity. Here is how this would work:

Let us take beloved Stanford University as an example.

The full tuition at Stamford is currently $29,870 per year. Stamford receives nearly 80% of its operational budget either from the American Government, or though the Endowment fund of the University, ie, a tax advantaged fund donated by Americans. To make things easy lets just assume that the real cost of tuition is 50% higher without any government tax breaks. Thus the true economic value, unsubsidized, is about $44,850 for tuition per year. Room and Board is also subsidized, as those big dorms are either funded through a captial fund of tax deductable donations, or through tax exempt bonds. Thus the true capital cost of the dormitories is atl east 30% higher than what students really pay. Therefore the the list price of $9,503 for Room and Board shoud really be $12,353 absent any government subsidy.

Therefore, a full year of attendance at the beloved Stanford should really be $57,203. Or, $228,812 for a four year education. I would propose that any foreign student who categorically rejects the American Government, also reject any assistance from that government, thus maintaining the students’ personal integrity. This would allow the student true peace of mind in knowing that they had not compromised, and polluted their education with handouts from a government they despised.

Any student RETROACTIVELY troubled by accepting huge discounts from the Government of the United States should make out a check today to their University.

How are we liking that solution?

OG your obsession with Stanford and me is really unhealthy, seriously. Please try to get over it and try to find a new subject of obsession.

[abc1234]

Re: Students from abroad are welcomed and should come to the U.S. for studies

@storch

Where I’ve it found diffficult to see any possibility for disagreement is how a selfish, immature and profoundly ingracious attitude can elicit a very justifiable reaction on the part of some American posters.

Is it so difficult to see how irksome her behavior is? Yet, you continue to rush to her defense as if we were railing against the very concept of foreign students as opposed to just railing against abject ignorance and crudeness.

As I said, you need fresh air, big time.

[abc1234]

Re: Students from abroad are welcomed and should come to the U.S. for studies

@Fraudz

irem

someone touched a nerve or two or three there eh

Mr F

These people aren’t worth it. I’ve seen their reality now.

[abc1234]

Re: Students from abroad are welcomed and should come to the U.S. for studies

@aishaA

In this case it doesn’t bother you that most of these “brownies” are Indians?

I was just stating a fact. When did I say if it bothered me or not

[Seminole]

Re: Students from abroad are welcomed and should come to the U.S. for studies

@Irem

Open your mind and try to understand and peer a bit deeper Seminole, you might get it then.

What is it that I don’t get? You want to keep white people with differing opinions off gupshup but you see no problem with living in the US while these same white people subsidize your education as you spout anti-American dribble. Really, I think you might peer a little deeper and see how your exclusionary views are hypocritical and racist - the very things you accuse others of.

[abc1234]

Re: Students from abroad are welcomed and should come to the U.S. for studies

Seminole, hang on please.

You're the one who's making assumptions here.

I'm "exclusionary" and "racist"? Lets hear it please, why do you think so?

What anti-American dribble? Yeah I'm against the US foreign policy, did I say I'm against the existence of America and want all Americans wiped away from the planet? Did I ever say I am for extermination of the white race off planet earth? I don't think so. Did I ever say I have anything against any race of human beings? I don't think so.

I do have a problem with people who try to force their erroneous ideology on me though and have the attitude of "We're the masters and your benefactors so bow down to us".

Why are your buddies Ohioguy and storch upset? B/c they think I'm not "grateful" to American govt for the education I received. What kind of "gratitude" do Ohioguy and storch expect from me? They want me to be singing praises of anything associated with the American govt and condone any evil I see associated with American govt policies? Sorry I can't do that. Never have and never will b/c my conscience does not allow me to do that.

I already expressed my true opinions: American people are generally friendly, but the foreign policy of the govt is unjust. I have a right to that opinion and its based on facts.

This is the World Affairs forum, we discuss political issues here, and obviously I am going to express my dissent against American foreign policy here. If Ohioguy, storch and you extrapolate that into meaning that I'm racist, hypocritical, exclusionary and I hate all white people and Americans then the fault lies in your thinking my friend not mine :)

I never said ALL white people should be disallowed from GS. But THESE folks :OG & storch: who are always here with this agenda of theirs not to mention they always pick on me (which btw doesn't even bother me) SHOULD indeed be given a strong message that these kinds of posts are not welcome here. They come here with their high and mighty attitude and expect everyone to be thankful to their government and any disagreement with their government results in them getting agitated and the person who disagrees being labelled as an ingrate and racist hypocrite.

BTW, if you've got a problem, try to take up the matter nicely, there's no need to resort to insulting, fighting, name calling or getting personal.

Address the post and comment on the post, why do you have to make judgements on the poster and resort to personal attacks? I admit I did that too in my thread in feedback, but that was only AFTER that was done to me repeatedly. I don't think I said anything to you though, so I'm not sure why you chose to call me all that. Anyways.

[storch]

Re: Students from abroad are welcomed and should come to the U.S. for studies

Irem,

The high and mighty attitude was first expressed by yourself and is what started this yearlong journey. With your disparaging remarks about U.S. students and workforce.

You needn't learn to support U.S. policy, you simply need to learn some basic manners. That's all. Hopefully you will see how your life will be enriched by treating others respectfully.

It's wonderrful to know you would stop a Muslim brother from killing a "white American without fault". That's really something.

[abc1234]

Re: Students from abroad are welcomed and should come to the U.S. for studies

storch I started it? Interesting, absolutely amazing! Like how and when exactly did I start?
A year ago I expressed disparaging remarks about US students and workforce? Please show me ONE post where I have done that, even ONE.
The post in the beginning of this thread does not count b/c it was in response to constant nagging, but before that show me ONE post.

I don’t treat others respectfully and I don’t have basic manners? WOW! Nobody has ever said that to me before. Please tell me, when did I misbehave with anyone, talk bad to anyone? If I have done that, though very rarely, it was in response to ppl calling me worse things first. I did not even stoop to the level people stooped to when they insulted me b/c I simply don’t believe in talking like that to ANYONE.

And my point about killing a white American was simply to show that I am not against any race and I would stop injustice against all races.

Please support your claims with facts, then I’ll answer you. Don’t just go around making accusations, calling me an ingrate and hypocritical, without SOUND LOGIC that is based on SOLID FACTS.
**
The simple truth is, you and OG are just jealous and angry that Muslim foreigners like me who are supposed to be “inferior” to you and your slaves and be grateful to you 24/7 got a chance to attend good universities in America and receive good education and you don’t miss a chance to make us feel bad.

Its okay though, I couldn’t be less bothered about that. In Urdu we say “jalnay walay ka moonh kala”. The one who gets jealous, his face turns black. So my sincere advice to you is, is “mehnat karein hasad na karein”. Work hard yourself (to improve yourself), don’t get jealous (of others).
Really. My best wishes are with you. And no need to get jealous, the Lord rewards all of us equally in different ways.

**

[Seminole]

Re: Students from abroad are welcomed and should come to the U.S. for studies

@Irem

I’m “exclusionary” and “racist”? Lets hear it please, why do you think so?

from this thread:
"so GORAY BAABOOS like OhioGuy and storch my buddies, i suggest you first PROVE YOURSELVES and get to our LEVEL, academically, stop choosing sissy girly majors, and then u’ll have a right to say anything abt us

till then, we all know AMREEKA needs us more than we need AMREEKA !!!

What anti-American dribble? Yeah I’m against the US foreign policy, did I say I’m against the existence of America and want all Americans wiped away from the planet? Did I ever say I am for extermination of the white race off planet earth? I don’t think so. Did I ever say I have anything against any race of human beings? I don’t think so.

from this thread:
u guys been taking things too too much for granted. there needs to be a revolution and the aggressors need to be taught their lesson. u guys been pushing us to a corner but now we r INSHALLAH very soon gona stand up.

ALLAH-O-AKBAR

the Ummah unites

death to aggressors :kaboom:

Why are your buddies Ohioguy and storch upset? B/c they think I’m not “grateful” to American govt for the education I received. What kind of “gratitude” do Ohioguy and storch expect from me? They want me to be singing praises of anything associated with the American govt and condone any evil I see associated with American govt policies? Sorry I can’t do that. Never have and never will b/c my conscience does not allow me to do that.

And why are you so upset that OG and storch don’t sing the praises of political Islam and everything Islamic/Pakistani? You want them to show gratitude because they are posting on this site? Should they condone what they see as evil? They conscience probably does not allow that.

If Ohioguy, storch and you extrapolate that into meaning that I’m racist, hypocritical, exclusionary and I hate all white people and Americans then the fault lies in your thinking my friend not mine

Nothing was extapolated that you didn’t say. YOU are the one who singled out white people as intellectually lazy and not up to ‘brown’ standards.

They come here with their high and mighty attitude and expect everyone to be thankful to their government and any disagreement with their government results in them getting agitated and the person who disagrees being labelled as an ingrate and racist hypocrite.

Yeah, and you come to the US with your high and mighty attitude and expect everyone to gloss over any disagreement with other posters. As I said your posts (THE FACTS) indicate the ingrate rascist hypocrit attitude. No one made that up.

BTW, if you’ve got a problem, try to take up the matter nicely, there’s no need to resort to insulting, fighting, name calling or getting personal.

Exactly how did I resort to these things? Once again, one standard for yourself and another for the posters you disagree with.

[LuxuryItem]

Re: Students from abroad are welcomed and should come to the U.S. for studies

Irem,

who paid your tuition bill? Your family or the US govt.?

The whole argument is silly. Storch and Oguy don't have to worry about foreign students coming to the US for much longer. Most foreign students are happily going to European countries, Australia and UK. Those countries are happy to have those foreign students.

US is better off w/out those ingrate foreign students!

[ghuLail]

Re: Students from abroad are welcomed and should come to the U.S. for studies

this is such a useless thread......whats this got to do with WA may i know?