Stoning sentence for Pakistan woman

Society Religion & Philosophy
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I'm glad you are such a Biblical scholar after reading a website. If it only took that much to learn about a religion, I would be Head Mullah after my weeks of reading gupshup.

No one is picking a verse or two out of the Quran. This thread is about people STONING PEOPLE TO DEATH based on "religous" principles.

If you are seriously considering learning about Christianity, I urge you to study the teachings of Jesus Christ. Modern day Christians tend to look at the Old Testament for what it was - rules to live by in a world that existed over 2000 years ago. Remember, Christianity has had 600 more years to develop than Islam. I imagine in another 600 years there will be far fewer Muslim fundamentalists that believe in things like stoning people.

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One Hundred Whether you’re married or unmarried, man or woman.

Fifty for the married, those whom your right hand possesses.

Punishment for Adultery

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[quote]
Originally posted by Seminole:
**I'm glad you are such a Biblical scholar after reading a website. If it only took that much to learn about a religion, I would be Head Mullah after my weeks of reading gupshup.

No one is picking a verse or two out of the Quran. This thread is about people STONING PEOPLE TO DEATH based on "religous" principles.

If you are seriously considering learning about Christianity, I urge you to study the teachings of Jesus Christ. Modern day Christians tend to look at the Old Testament for what it was - rules to live by in a world that existed over 2000 years ago. Remember, Christianity has had 600 more years to develop than Islam. I imagine in another 600 years there will be far fewer Muslim fundamentalists that believe in things like stoning people.

**
[/quote]

You would wish it was like that but sorry to say that a fundamentalist means who follow the fundamentals of islam which are five. and no people will not stop follow islamic fundamentals, they might get distracted but they will always follow the fundamentals of Islam even on the edge of a sword.

[This message has been edited by reza khan (edited April 23, 2002).]

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How can people want to reform islamic laws???
Totally nonsense.....it is one thing not to practise islamic laws and totally different thing to change islamic laws......is that, that people want to justify evil by changing laws of islam????so any who likes to do an evil can make his own law and say the evil is good, and say it in the name of islam.....Nauzubillah....

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[quote]
Originally posted by Seminole:
*I'm glad you are such a Biblical scholar after reading a website. If it only took that much to learn about a religion, I would be Head Mullah after my weeks of reading gupshup.
*
[/quote]

Actually I have left islam 10-12 years ago. I have no sympathy for any religion. All faiths r dangerous. Only insecure ppl believe in God.

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[quote]
Originally posted by WhoAmI:
** Only insecure ppl believe in God.

**
[/quote]

And why would u say only insecure ppl believe in God. Shows ur insecurity to me.

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[quote]
Originally posted by WhoAmI:
** Actually I have left islam 10-12 years ago. I have no sympathy for any religion. All faiths r dangerous. Only insecure ppl believe in God.

**
[/quote]

Just curious, if you don't believe in God, then what do you believe in? Religion is only dangerous when people twist it, into something that it wasn't meant to be.

However it is ok. God is very real and he does believe in you.

Brenda

Hope for the best, prepare for the worst!!!

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[quote]
Originally posted by WhoAmI:
** Actually I have left islam 10-12 years ago. I have no sympathy for any religion. All faiths r dangerous. Only insecure ppl believe in God.
**
[/quote]

I would still say study the teachings of Jesus Christ. There has never lived a greater man. Even outside of the religious context - if we could all emulate his love, tolerance, wisdom, charity, forgiveness and humbleness - it would be a much better world.

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One question if u dont mind. Are u eastern Orthodox or catholic. The pakistani ones are mostly catholic.

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[quote]
Originally posted by reza khan:
*One question if u dont mind. Are u eastern Orthodox or catholic. The pakistani ones are mostly catholic. *
[/quote]

Actually, Pakistani Catholics are mainly found in urnbanised areas and are generally middle class. To the best of my knowledge, most Pakistani Christians are Protestants who follow the Church of Pakistan, formed by the merger of the Church Of England in Pakistan and the Methodist Church in Pakistan.

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mad_S,

You know, Pakistan is a little bigger than Karachi!
.
.
You are welcome! :)

[This message has been edited by ahmadjee (edited April 23, 2002).]

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Chapter 3: PRESCRIBED PUNISHMENT FOR AN ADULTERER AND AN ADULTERESS

SAHIH MUSLIM
Book 017, Number 4191:
'Ubada b. as-Samit reported: Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: Receive (teaching) from me, receive (teaching) from me. Allah has ordained a way for those (women). When an unmarried male commits adultery with an unmarried female (they should receive) one hundred lashes and banishment for one year. And in case of married male committing adultery with a married female, they shall receive one hundred lashes and be stoned to death.

Book 017, Number 4192:
'Ubada b. as-Samit reported that whenever Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) received revelation, he felt its rigour and the complexion of his face changed. One day revelation descended upon him, he felt the same rigour. When it was over and he felt relief, he said: Take from me. Verily Allah has ordained a way for them (the women who commit fornication),: (When) a married man (commits adultery) with a married woman, and an unmarried male with an unmarried woman, then in case of married (persons) there is (a punishment) of one hundred lashes and then stoning (to death). And in case of unmarried persons, (the punishment) is one hundred lashes and exile for one year.

Book 017, Number 4193:
This hadith has been reported on the authority of Qatada with the same chain of transmitters except with this variation that the unmarried is to be lashed and exiled, and the married one is to be lashed and stoned. There is neither any mention of one year nor that of one hundred.

Chapter 4: STONING OF A MARRIED ADULTERER

Book 017, Number 4194:
'Abdullah b. 'Abbas reported that 'Umar b. Khattab sat on the pulpit of Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) and said: Verily Allah sent Muhammad (may peace be upon him) with truth and He sent down the Book upon him, and the verse of stoning was included in what was sent down to him. We recited it, retained it in our memory and understood it. Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) awarded the punishment of stoning to death (to the married adulterer and adulteress) and, after him, we also awarded the punishment of stoning, I am afraid that with the lapse of time, the people (may forget it) and may say: We do not find the punishment of stoning in the Book of Allah, and thus go astray by abandoning this duty prescribed by Allah. Stoning is a duty laid down in Allah’s Book for married men and women who commit adultery when proof is established, or it there is pregnancy, or a confession.

Book 017, Number 4195:
This hadith has been narrated on the authority of Zuhri with the same chain of transmitters.

Chapter 5: HE WHO CONFESSES HIS GUILT OF ADULTERY

Book 017, Number 4196:
Abu Huraira reported that a person from amongst the Muslims came to Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) while he was in the mosque. He called him saying: Allah’s Messenger. I have committed adultery. He (the Holy Prophet) turned away from him, He (again) came round facing him and said to him: Allah’s Messenger, I have committed adultery. He (the Holy Prophet) turned away until he did that four times, and as he testified four times against his own self, Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) called him and said: Are you mad? He said: No. He (again) said: Are you married? He said: Yes. Thereupon Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) said: Take him and stone him. Ibn Shihab (one of the narrators) said: One who had heard Jabir b. 'Abdullah saying this informed me thus: I was one of those who stoned him. We stoned him at the place of prayer (either that of 'Id or a funeral). When the stones hurt him, he ran away. We caught him in the Harra and stoned him (to death). This hadith has been narrated through another chain of transmitters.

http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/fundamentals/hadithsunnah/muslim/017.smt.html#017.4191

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Section: Stoning

Malik's Muwatta

Book 41, Number 41.1.1:
Malik related to me from Nafi that Abdullah ibn Umar said, "The Jews came to the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, and mentioned to him that a man and woman from among them had committed adultery. The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, asked them, 'What do you find in the Torah about stoning?' They said, 'We make their wrong action known and flog them.' Abdullah ibn Salam said, 'You have lied! It has stoning for it, so bring the Torah.' They spread it out and one of them placed his hand over the ayat of stoning. Then he read what was before it and what was after it. Abdullah ibn Salam told him to lift his hand. He lifted his hand and there was the ayat of stoning. They said, 'He has spoken the truth, Muhammad. The ayat of stoning is in it.' So the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, gave the order and they were stoned . "

Abdullah ibn Umar added, "I saw the man leaning over the woman to protect her from the stones."

Malik commented, "By leaning he meant throwing himself over her so that the stones fell on him."

Book 41, Number 41.1.2:
Malik related to me from Yahya ibn Said from Said ibn al-Musayyab that a man from the Aslam tribe came to Abu Bakr as-Siddiq and said to him, "I have committed adultery." Abu Bakr said to him, "Have you mentioned this to anyone else?" He said, "No." Abu Bakr said to him, "Then cover it up with the veil of Allah. Allah accepts tawba from his slaves." His self was still unsettled, so he went to Umar ibn al-Khattab. He told him the same as he had said to Abu Bakr, and Umar told him the same as Abu Bakr had said to him. His self was still not settled so he went to the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, and said to him, "I have committed adultery," insistently. The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, turned away from him three times. Each time the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, turned away from him until it became too much. The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, questioned his family, "Does he have an illness which affects his mind, or is he mad?" They said, "Messenger of Allah, by Allah, he is well." The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "Unmarried or married?" They said, "Married, Messenger of Allah." The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, gave the order and he was stoned.

Book 41, Number 41.1.4:
Malik related to me that Ibn Shihab informed him that a man confessed that he had committed adultery in the time of the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, and he testified against himself four times, so the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, gave the order and he was stoned.

Ibn Shihab said, "Because of this a man is to be taken for his own confession against himself."

Book 41, Number 41.1.5:
Malik related to me from Yaqub ibn Zayd ibn Talha from his father Zayd ibn Talha that Abdullah ibn Abi Mulayka informed him that a woman came to the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, and informed him that she had committed adultery and was pregnant. The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said to her, "Go away until you give birth." When she had given birth, she came to him. The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said to her, "Go away until you have suckled and weaned the baby." When she had weaned the baby, she came to him. He said, "Go and entrust the baby to someone." She entrusted the baby to someone and then came to him. He gave the order and she was stoned.

Book 41, Number 41.1.6:
Malik related to me from Ibn Shihab from Ubaydullah ibn Abdullah ibn Utba ibn Masud that Abu Hurayra and Zayd ibn Khalid al-Juhani informed him that two men brought a dispute to the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace. One of them said, "Messenger of Allah! Judge between us by the Book of Allah!" The other said, and he was the wiser of the two, "Yes, Messenger of Allah. Judge between us by the Book of Allah and give me permission to speak." He said, "Speak." He said, "My son was hired by this person and he committed fornication with his wife. He told me that my son deserved stoning, and I ransomed him for one hundred sheep and a slave-girl. Then I asked the people of knowledge and they told me that my son deserved to be flogged with one hundred lashes and exiled for a year, and they informed me that the woman deserved to be stoned." The Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, said, "By him in whose Hand myself is, I will judge between you by the Book of Allah. As for your sheep and slave girl, they should be returned to you. Your son should have one hundred lashes and be exiled for a year." He ordered Unays al-Aslami to go to the wife of the other man and to stone her if she confessed . She confessed and he stoned her.

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how muslims will react to adultery accept local laws where they live or follow
the priciples of religen?

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I have been trying to copy-paste something on this thread, but I've been unable to..Why????

[This message has been edited by Khoon-e-Shaheed (edited April 23, 2002).]

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[quote]
Originally posted by mAd_ScIeNtIsT:
** The authenticity of the Hadith regarding the stoning of adulterers is such that it is generally not doubted.

However, it is debatable as to whether the Hadith abrogates the verse in the Quran, or whether the Quran abrogates the Hadith.

The answer depend on what fiqh you follow. Unfortunately, I have misplaced my book on Islamic jurisprudence, but in there it was written that at least one fiqh maintains that it is possible for a Hadith to abrogate the Quran (hence adulterers should be stoned to death); whereas other fiqhs strenuously maintain that a Quranic verse cannot be abrogated by anything other than another Quranic verse (hence the punishment from adulterer should be 100 lashes, this punishment replacing execution).**
[/quote]

And it is not for a believer, man or woman, when Allah and His Messenger have decreed a matter, that they should have any option in their decision 33:36

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[quote]
Originally posted by sholay:
**
Different

Please don't preach to me on how we learnt salaat.

I am not a Submitter and do accept authentic A'Hadeeth. However, when the A'Hadeeth clearly conradicts the Qur'aan, then the Qur'aan will always be my guide and not the A'Hadeeth.

What amazes me is that the Qur'aan has made it abundantly clear in simple language, the punishment is 100 lashes, but some people still seem to ignore this ruling and would rather debate the A'Hadeeth as though A'Hadeeth is the primary source and the Qur'aan is the secondary source.

Sorry to disappoint some of the Guppies, but the Qur'aan is very clear on this issue.

Once again:

024.002 The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.

Wake up!!!!

**
[/quote]

And it is not for a believer, man or woman, when Allah and His Messenger have decreed a matter, that they should have any option in their decision 33:36

Notice? it says ...when Allah and His Messenger have decreed a matter..

Please refer to Hadith also!

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I hope all the Hadith might prove beneficial!

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Where does it say whether married or unmarried?

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[quote]
Originally posted by Different:
** Where does it say whether married or unmarried?**
[/quote]

good how about people who dont accept hadith and completely reject all of em.