Re: Stem Cell Research, Morals and Religion
^Morality is subjective. it's not against my "morals" to allow stem cell research because I am thinking of the greater good that will come out of it. Religious people on the other hand will first pick up their scripture and search for a verse that either condemns it or condone it then they will make up their mind about it. So much for free will, right?
Re: Stem Cell Research, Morals and Religion
Well it may not be against your morals, which is fine, like I said ethics are subjective, no one is right per se. However you implying that all atheists will agree with you is wrong, I know many whose morals do not allow them to agree with certain areas of stem cell research.
I said before I didn't disagree with stem cell research, only the part where I believe murder is used to get ahead.
Also, if we talk about Islam, the verses are more complex than we can understand. Like I said before there are some scholars for it as well, it is your choice which interpretation you believe is right.
Islam does not force you to disagree with stem cell research, in my opinion it tells us that some things are right and others are wrong, what we do is then up to us.
Re: Stem Cell Research, Morals and Religion
May be they really dont 
Re: Stem Cell Research, Morals and Religion
There are many who claim they are religious and have no moral code either. Both the concepts aren’t connected, morals and humanity is something everyone SHOULD have, some don’t, it has nothing to do with their religious beliefs, or the lack of it.
Re: Stem Cell Research, Morals and Religion
What does your sig mean? It sounds funny, I wants to knooooow.
Re: Stem Cell Research, Morals and Religion
what?
and since when am I the spokesperson for the entire atheist community? Atheism is not a religion and nor do we all think like. How did I imply anything in what I said. Morals mean nothing to me, I think about consequences. Morals are defined by your belief system, community, and society.
Let’s face it, it will take a fatwa or two to make muslims change their mind about stem cell research. That’s just how it is. No matter how logical sounding something is if you BELIEVE that Allah or Prophet Muhammad doesn’t condone it, neither will you…
I didn’t say anything on behalf of my fellow atheists. Stop treating atheism like it’s some sort of a religion or there’s remotely any unity among us. Atheism doesn’t a have set of rules, moral guidance, or any instructions…we all do what we believe is best for us and no one’s commanding us to be a certain way
It’s a beautiful thing when one is a good selfless human being without the fear of hellfire
Re: Stem Cell Research, Morals and Religion
^so where do you derive your morals and belief system from??
Re: Stem Cell Research, Morals and Religion
^learning from my own mistakes, watching other people make mistakes and seeing the consequences of their actions. It's not that hard to figure out what's going to benefit you in the long run and what will get you in trouble.
Re: Stem Cell Research, Morals and Religion
You would be one of the rarest exception then if you are not governed by morals, belief in aakhira or any sort of accountability to this life if you do consider yourself to be a good selfless human being.
But not everyone can be a good selfless human being without the fear of accountability. It’s just very very difficult. Discipline/humility and all the good humanatirian traits come with accountability IMO
Re: Stem Cell Research, Morals and Religion
Agreed with Enigmatic.
^learning from my own mistakes, watching other people make mistakes and seeing the consequences of their actions. It's not that hard to figure out what's going to benefit you in the long run and what will get you in trouble.
It's a beautiful thing when one is a good selfless human being without the fear of hellfire
Not everything that's right will benefit you (in this world, IMO).
But society uses prison and other punishment systems to make sure we follow a moral code, so it's ok fearing a prison but not ok to be a good person because you fear the day of judgement?
At the end of the day, as long as someone is following the right way, following a moral code, then why does it bother you that they do so because of a book?
Re: Stem Cell Research, Morals and Religion
^Because we are talking about stem cell research and not someone robbing a convenient store.
@Enigmatic- How many atheists do you know? I am not rare at all. Who and what would you credit for most european nations that have been doing so well without any religious intereferance for ages? Law and order right?
Re: Stem Cell Research, Morals and Religion
Muslims pioneered science and medicine, thank Allah for that or maybe we wouldn't have gotten to this point.
You are deluded. The Greeks did. Aristotle might have been wrong about everything but he pioneered the Scientific Method upon which scientific reasoning is based.
However, just so you don't say I'm biased and attack me with your cyber sword, I accept that credit must be given to Muslims for some incredible accomplishments although none were on the level of say, Newton, or Galileo..
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I remember going to see an Islamic scholar who was also very knowledgeable in medicine, I didn't think much of him tbh but he did mention a hadith that any cure derived from haraam means is also haraam.
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Who? How knowledgeable? Printed research papers, fellow at some prestigious university, what?
Re: Stem Cell Research, Morals and Religion
If it saves life, its halal.
Re: Stem Cell Research, Morals and Religion
Reading your posts I strong believe you should be donated to science research so they can try to do stem cell research on your failed brain.
After all you do not care of human lives deliberately abused in the way of ‘greater good’! 
Also you should read Lollywood actors/actresses gossip stories.. than giving views on scientific matters.
Why?
1- I asked you to read the article you posted in beginning.
it clearly stated that the scientist who claimed to increase human life span to a ridiculous number was refuted and he changed his position.
2- You said what is that got to do with aging? That right there tells you have absolutely no idea what drives life span of human being.
Remember munnay!
a- Lifespan does not depend on just diseased organs which can possibly be replaced like a auto parts but it also depends on programmed cell life. I bet you have no idea of that either.
b- it is not about adding years to life but adding life to years. The article you quoted talked about it which your limited brain function chose to ignore altogether.
3- You did not say you will bring aging article. You had no idea what aging was comprised of and even if you did then why say stem cell has nothing to do with aging and increasing lifespan of human being?
4- Regarding the ethics of research: There are agreed upon rules to be engaged in these kind of research.
You must read about those rules, before giving silly and ridiculous opinions.
Don’t come to discuss something so adamantly and strongly which you have absolutely no idea about.
5- You tried to be smart as if you do know what aging is besides what the article said “wearing and tearing”
No it is not “wearing and tearing”, it is something more than that, but for you it was simplified.
I don’t care how much you google and bring articles after articles.
That does not change the fact that your posts show you have zero idea of science and just argue for the sake of arguing.
Last post by me in this thread. Go read gossip magazines, instead of acting smarty pant and talk about science.
Re: Stem Cell Research, Morals and Religion
Please, don’t wet your pants over this, Neanderthal Friend 
I’m starting to think Neanderthals weren’t so human… YOu have, after all, very limited eye sight. Read again:
Quite simply, either you can not comprehend what the para above means or you downright lie.
More proof that Neanderthals don’t have much eyesight. I already said:
Even going by your reasoning, the lifespan of a heart failure patient can be extended just by repairing his heart.
I don’t know whether its a Neanderthal thing or you are permanently on LSD, but when did I say that? I just said the cells injected into the cornea don’t have anything to do with aging.
Agreed upon by the Mullah Brigade?
I said myself “basically”. And basically, it is just that.
Neanderthals sure describe themselves well, albeit accidentally.
Although, a 1000 may seem far fetched, our whole civilization would have seemed absurd to any person living 300 years ago.
Anyhow, leave a 1000, even if it increases average age by a year, its worth it.
Ok Mr Im-too-kewl-to-argue-about-things-I-dont-know-about!
Goodbye Neanderthal friend, I’d hate to see you get further humiliated here
Re: Stem Cell Research, Morals and Religion
People citing newspapers reports as scientific/scholarly proof…
Re: Stem Cell Research, Morals and Religion
People failing to contribute meaningfully and settling for whatever just comes into their mind.
Re: Stem Cell Research, Morals and Religion
You are deluded. The Greeks did. Aristotle might have been wrong about everything but he pioneered the Scientific Method upon which scientific reasoning is based.
However, just so you don't say I'm biased and attack me with your cyber sword, I accept that credit must be given to Muslims for some incredible accomplishments although none were on the level of say, Newton, or Galileo..
Who? How knowledgeable? Printed research papers, fellow at some prestigious university, what?
So some credit is due? Especially Islamic medicine, which was very much influenced by greek medicine but still there were some very significant achievements. So it's not that bad having some muslims in the field of science is there?
My point is that you can't sit there and judge every Muslim, yes ethics is an issue (with Muslims as well as non-Muslims) but it doesn't mean their input isn't valuable.
Knowledgeable as in you could tell he wasn't talking crap. Like I said I don't follow him or know much but he's graduated from multiple universities, Al Azhar being one of them and whenIi went to see him he was affiliated with the Medical department of Manchester University. I never went to see him again, he seemed a bit meh but he knew his sources and wasn't there to brain wash and what not like some peeps are so I would trust him to be telling a proper hadith, you could always re-check if you wanted shrugs
Re: Stem Cell Research, Morals and Religion
So some credit is due? Especially Islamic medicine, which was very much influenced by greek medicine but still there were some very significant achievements. So it's not that bad having some muslims in the field of science is there? My point is that you can't sit there and judge every Muslim, yes ethics is an issue (with Muslims as well as non-Muslims) but it doesn't mean their input isn't valuable.
Why would I say that? I'm a Muslim myself.
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Knowledgeable as in you could tell he wasn't talking crap. Like I said I don't follow him or know much but he's graduated from multiple universities, Al Azhar being one of them and whenIi went to see him he was affiliated with the Medical department of Manchester University.
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Lots of people think Zaid Hamid is NOT talking crap. I think he is. I don't know what his intentions are or what kind of a person he is deep down inside, but he has basically accomplished nothing save whipping up some frusturated young people into a frenzy. Same goes for this Mullah. I don't know what kind of a man he is, but unless hes a recognized authority on medicine, what he says means nothing to me.
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I never went to see him again, he seemed a bit meh but he knew his sources and wasn't there to brain wash and what not like some peeps are so I would trust him to be telling a proper hadith, you could always re-check if you wanted shrugs
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I thought we were talking about his worldly knowledge...
Re: Stem Cell Research, Morals and Religion
*Why would I say that? I'm a Muslim myself. *
Lots of people think Zaid Hamid is NOT talking crap. I think he is. I don't know what his intentions are or what kind of a person he is deep down inside, but he has basically accomplished nothing save whipping up some frusturated young people into a frenzy. Same goes for this Mullah. I don't know what kind of a man he is, but unless hes a recognized authority on medicine, what he says means nothing to me.
I thought we were talking about his worldly knowledge...
I assumed you meant that muslims should not be in the field of scince/medicine because of their ethical beliefs, my bad.
No idea who Zaid Hamid is, I tend to stick with the the scholars/shaykhs I trust rather than listening to everyone, so I don't know many of the popular ones.
You quoted the bit about where he said the hadith, I would trust him with the authenticity of that. I didn't mention any thing he said about the worldly medicinal stuff just because I only went to see him once and I don't know how trustworthy he is with modern medicine.