Re: Stem Cell Research, Morals and Religion
If even one life or potential one life has to be deliberately destroyed to save millions, then it is immoral and unethical to do so.
Having said that, stem cells can be obtained by other means. No need to destroy a life.
Re: Stem Cell Research, Morals and Religion
Yes thus the huge debate on euthanasia too ... life is truly very complicated and it does show that no matter how much we excel in field of science some things would always remain out of our hands such as life and death itself. And this is what strengthens my faith even more and gets me closer to Allah SWT :)
Agreed. You can talk ethics forever really, I went to see a catholic surgeon (same opinions as muslims kinda) talk about it abortion and how he deals with 'killing' a baby in one room and attempts to save a younger more fragile baby in another room.
I like the fact that with muslims, we learn, we gain knowledge but we have ethics. Some scientists are so crazed by progression that they forget the worth of human life, it just becomes a number to them. Scary thought.
Re: Stem Cell Research, Morals and Religion
If you believe any of this, then I doubt further your level of understanding science.
What is the difference in you believeing this and a person who believes Peer Baba’s fake claims?
Re: Stem Cell Research, Morals and Religion
If you believe any of this, then I doubt further your level of understanding science.
What is the difference in you believeing this and a person who believes Peer Baba's fake claims?
Yes this article got me very very skeptical. See my support for stem cell research was by using the embryos created in excess for IVF only and not creating them just for the sake of research and destroying them. But this research should focus on treating diseases that save someone from a life of misery and handicap - not just for the sake of living up to a thousand years !
Re: Stem Cell Research, Morals and Religion
Welcome Diwana, my Neanderthal friend 
Though it can not be accorded much significance, your input is nonetheless very welcome. The thing is actually, that I trust Dailymail a little more than some Cyber Mullah on Paklinks.
Even if that were not the case, I have read other articles which prove that stem cell therapy can extend our lifespan. I’ll dig them out and get back to you.
In the meantime, read these articles. All about an eye surgery that used stem cells. And all from very presigious newspapers:
If you still do not believe, then a more complex problem will present itself of course: Whether to call you a Neanderthal or a Pigeon?
Re: Stem Cell Research, Morals and Religion
I'm sure your views will be very different if it was the lifespan of your parents or kids being extended...
Re: Stem Cell Research, Morals and Religion
Nothing unethical in this. Everything's fair in war and this is war: War for survival! I wouldn't be surprised if the US is already doing all this in secret.
I wish they weree.
My mom has Multi system Atrophy... and we are looking into it. docs over here dont even want to discuss about it
Re: Stem Cell Research, Morals and Religion
I wish they weree. My mom has Multi system Atrophy... and we are looking into it. docs over here** dont even want to discuss about it**
Pakistan? I ask because I have no idea about the availability of stem cell therapy to the overall populace either here in Pak or abroad.
Re: Stem Cell Research, Morals and Religion
I wish they weree. My mom has Multi system Atrophy... and we are looking into it. docs over here dont even want to discuss about it
Have you actually been to Aga Khan or Shaukat Khanum for consultation. Am sure people would at least want to talk about it ! But I don't think stem cell therapy for MSA is available anywhere in the world so far. Sanaabc have you tried the drug riluzole for your mother?
Re: Stem Cell Research, Morals and Religion
I'm sure your views will be very different if it was the lifespan of your parents or kids being extended...
Would your opinion be different if it was your child/embryo that was being created just to be destroyed?
Let's for arguments sake for a second consider that the embryo is a human being and has the same human rights as us would you then believe it to be alright to murder one person to lengthen the life span of others?
I think you'll find it easier to understand our perspective if you consider that, if I thought an embryo was just a ball of cells then I would have the same opinion as you, but like I said before I agree with the scholars who say life begins at fertilisation.
I was at the body works exhibition a while ago, maybe you saw it, children younger than the age of abortion (so are still not considered as 'people' by the masses) had fingernails. Fingernails!
I think more people need to see what it is they are sacrificing for a few more years on earth.
Re: Stem Cell Research, Morals and Religion
First I need to remind you to stop being smarty pant and I really hate to assume the role of your dad telling you to behave like a gentleman when discuss.
Second: You presented the article from dailymail.
I can pretty much say you did not even get half of what was written in the article.
The heading was a claim which even the scientist who was quoted in it was not sure of the claim made. But you believed the heading like a mureed of peer baba.
Third: You presented three links from various sources and all three talk about the similar treatment of blindness from corneal damage.
Let me tell you treatment of corneal damage by stem cell has nothing to do what you presented the idea of human living 150 or 1000 years!
You most likely need to study the aging phenomenon. Life span of a cell. Programmed cell death. Where the code lies of cell aging process and why it would even be a dangerous attempt to try to play with cell’s biological clock.
These are some basics you need to learn before bringing claims from dailymail and act you know a lot in this field.
Remember also, cancerous cells have what is considered unchecked division and loss of balance in dividing and halting division.
Sure stem cell can do wonders in individual diseases but claiming to increase the lifespan of whole human being is a pipe dream even at this time.
Now don’t become the laughing stock and try not to argue that you know aging and how stem cell research can make human live 150 plus years. 
**
Go back and read that article you quoted, before discussing further this complex topic.
When you don’t know something, then it is better to at least act humble if not be quiet.**
Re: Stem Cell Research, Morals and Religion
Would your opinion be different if it was your child/embryo that was being created just to be destroyed?
I swear upon Allah, it wouldn't be.
[QUOTE]
I think you'll find it easier to understand our perspective if you consider that, if I thought an embryo was just a ball of cells then I would have the same opinion as you,
[/QUOTE]
Well, the thing i, I and you for that matter, can walk, talk, eat, etc among other things that an eymbro can't. Most importantly, we CAN THINK. BTW, in the end, we really are just a mass of cells
[QUOTE]
children younger than the age of abortion (so are still not considered as 'people' by the masses) had fingernails. Fingernails!
[/QUOTE]
Fingernail???! Oh noes! !
Re: Stem Cell Research, Morals and Religion
You need to ask, what is aging? A simple answer would be the “wear and tear” to body cells. And what are stem cells? Basically cells which can “turn into” other types of cells. So what do stem cells have to do with aging? You read about the eye operation, the same theoretically applies to heart cells. According to theory, you could actually replace your damaged cells with new, healthy cells.
Now, I think only an idiot would claim that lifespans can not be extended through the repair of damaged body parts.
Wikipedia.
They guys must believe in peers… Maybe Baba Bush leading the efforts??
<------- This, even a Neanderthal can’t deny…
And finally, since people like you do not believe the “Jooish” Controlled Media, an article about the growth of heart cells in the lab from DAWN :
http://www.dawn.com/2011/08/18/stem-cell-team-aims-for-spare-heart-parts-in-five-years.html
Also, two, Jooish newspapers:
http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/breakthrough-new-heart-grown-using-adult-stem-cells/
I’m sorry I offended you Neanderthal friend
No actually I did. Because my mind is not so closed to science as yours.
Again, Neanderthal friend, my bad. I had clearly written that I’ll dig out the aging articles and get back to you. In the meantime, you should read these. Nowhere did I say that it was related to aging. But of course, Its my fault because I should have known that you could not have handled such a complex sentence structure.
With this, you have single handedly demolished the whole field of stem cell research. Congrats.
If only you would act on it instead of blabbering on and on about how Einstein was religious.
Re: Stem Cell Research, Morals and Religion
Have you actually been to Aga Khan or Shaukat Khanum for consultation. Am sure people would at least want to talk about it ! But I don't think stem cell therapy for MSA is available anywhere in the world so far. Sanaabc have you tried the drug riluzole for your mother?
we are in the usa. my mom is on a low dose of levadopa. ( i actually made a thread about it) she has a moderate case of cerebellum atrophy, and as per the doc, with that much of damage peopel live a normal life... unlike her who cant walk, talk, move, roll anymore at age of 51. And nooo ... I had a talk with her doc twice about stem cells.. he said few of his patients have gone for it with little to no obvious improvement.
Re: Stem Cell Research, Morals and Religion
Well, the thing i, I and you for that matter, can walk, talk, eat, etc among other things that an eymbro can't. Most importantly, we CAN THINK. BTW, in the end, we really are just a mass of cells
Yes but it has the potential to think, it is potentially a talking, walking, thinking human being like you and me. Who are we to decide whether it should live to walk, talk, think or not? It is still life.
Why do we not go on killing newborn babies? They aren't rational, their though processes aren't as advanced as adults, does that mean they should have less rights than you?
Re: Stem Cell Research, Morals and Religion
Yes but it has the potential to think, it is potentially a talking, walking, thinking human being like you and me. Who are we to decide whether it should live to walk, talk, think or not? It is still life.
Why do we not go on killing newborn babies? They aren't rational, their though processes aren't as advanced as adults, does that mean they should have less rights than you?
A major problem with people commenting on issues of science is that they don't even know what they are talking about. Enigmatic already explained about the embryos:
[QUOTE]
. The embryos used are the ones which are in the research labs and not *inside *the womb (out of the excess left after attempting in vitro fertilization). Now they would be discarded eventually if not transferred in utero. Using them for betterment of the humanity shouldn't be wrong.
[/QUOTE]
Last I checked, there were no babies being grown in labs... Even if the embryos used were taken from *inside *the womb, I still still do it for the BETTERMENT OF MANKIND
You should start a Tea Party movement in the UK too...
Re: Stem Cell Research, Morals and Religion
A major problem with people commenting on issues of science is that they don't even know what they are talking about. Enigmatic already explained about the embryos:
Last I checked, there were no babies being grown in labs... Even if the embryos used were taken from *inside *the womb, I still still do it for the BETTERMENT OF MANKIND
You should start a Tea Party movement in the UK too...
Eurgh we're going round and round in circles, you refuse to read my posts properly and are actually getting on my nerves. In my opinion (I said opinion so you can get your granny knickers out of a twist) you think we should cure patients by killing other people.,It's obvious why it would make no sense to me.
There are no hard and fast rules or facts when it comes to ethics, no opinion is wrong so stop being so freaking obnoxious.
Re: Stem Cell Research, Morals and Religion
Eurgh we're going round and round in circles, you refuse to read my posts properly and are actually getting on my nerves. In my opinion (I said opinion so you can get your granny knickers out of a twist) you think we should cure patients by killing other people.,It's obvious why it would make no sense to me. There are no hard and fast rules or facts when it comes to ethics, no opinion is wrong so stop being so freaking obnoxious.
Touchy?
Re: Stem Cell Research, Morals and Religion
IceSoul - who are you trying to convince? Stem cell research can't obviously gain religious folks' support. They have to get past this "immoral vs. moral, ethical vs. unethical" mindset and see the bigger picture.
Re: Stem Cell Research, Morals and Religion
IceSoul - who are you trying to convince? Stem cell research can't obviously gain religious folks' support. They have to get past this "immoral vs. moral, ethical vs. unethical" mindset and see the bigger picture.
Are you saying all non-religious people don't have ethics or morals? Almost every athiest I know, especially the scientists, debate and have the same difficulty as theists when it comes to ethics, not believing in God doesn't mean they don't have a moral code.