Split from "A question to Sunni Brothers": Abu Bakr's khilafat and BB Ayesha

^ first of all it is questionable if it was indeed Prophet (pbuh) who asked Hz Abu Bakr to lead the praryer or whether it was Abu Bakr’s daughter BB Ayesha. Even if we take it as a fact, do you think it is a prove for Abu Bakr’s khilafat?:

(some ‘simple’ people like Ibn Sadique seem a little confused by this writing. Please note that its in no chronological order as such)

  1. If leading prayers is evidence enough for Khilafat then dont you think all the people who lead the prayers by Prophet’s order had the chance to become Khalifa? They could’ve holded election or something if this was indeed a benchmark as prescribed by you.

  2. Prophet had assembled together an army under the l’ship of Usama b Zayd on the outskirts of Madina and Hz Abu Bakr and Hz Umar were ordered to assemble under his leadership. Usama was 17 years old and people had objected to be under his leadership.

  3. According to Bukhari, Hz Abu Bakr was out of Madinah (he was in a town called Sunh) at the time of the demise of the Prophet (pbuh). If he was chosen to take charge for a responsibility such as succesorship then why was he not called back by the Prophet (pbuh) himself?

3a) When Prophet of Allah asks for a pen and paper to write an “important message” to which Umar was seriously against (read Sahi Bukhari for details on this important event). Hz Umar famously said “Hisbana Kitaabullah”, i.e. “the book of Allah is enough for us”. This is a very interesting statement. Is it backed by Quran and Hadith?

4)Tareekh Tabari gives accounts of the events and say that Hz Umar was seeking to deny the information of Prophet’s departure and was in fact threatening to kill people who said that the Prophet (pbuh) was dead. He continued to do so until Hz Abu Bakr arrived and then he became “normal” and then they both went to BB Ayesha at Prophet’s house.

5)At the house of the Prophet (pbuh), infront of the pure body of the Prophet, Abu Bakr (correction as pointed out by Br Ibn Sadique) is reported to have said: "If anyone amongst you used to worship Muhummud (saws) then Muhummud is dead but (if any one of) you used to worship Allah then Allah is alive and shall never die. Then she recited a verse from the Quran about the past Prophets being dead (Sahi Bukhar). Did any one worship Prophet Mohammad (pbuh)? What kind of condolence was that? It indeed is very different from how the Ahlay Bayt (as) felt at tht time!

  1. Allama Shibli Naumani writes:

"“It is related by Omar that as they were seated in the Prophet’s house a man cried out all of a sudden from outside: 'O son of Khattab (Omar” pray step out for a moment’. Omar told him to leave them alone and go away as they were busy in making arrangements for the burial of the Prophet. The man replied that an incident had occurred i.e., the Ansar were gathering in force in the Thaqifah Bani Sa’idah and, as the situation was grave, it was necessary that he (Omar) should go and look in to the matter lest the Ansar should do something which would lead to a war. On this Omar said to Abu Bakr, ‘Let us go’. Imam Ali and other prious Sahaba stay busy with the preperation of the burial. Where were they going? what was the priority?

7)Tareekh Tabari says: They set out to go to the Saqifa on the way they were joined by Abu Ubaydah. On the way the meet two companions (unnamed in the history) whom Hz Umar recounts only as “pious fellows”. They seek to discourage Hz Abu Bakr and Hz Umar and the partner from proceeding further. They however reject this and keep making their way to the Saqifa?

  1. Saqifa- short for saqifa banu saeda. Whats was this place? why not something as central or well known as the Mosque of the Prophet or the house of the Prophet? saqifa banu saeda btw was a well known meeting place for the wicked, i.e. munafiqeen and mujremeen of the time.

  2. The arguments over Khilafat start. Who gave handul of Ansars and these 3 muhajirs authority to discuss and decide the fate of the Ummat?

  3. Read detailed account of the event at the saqifa banu saeda. There was heated arguments but tell me one single argument that was presented from either Quran or Sunnat of the Prophet, i.e. the foundation of our religion.

  4. Hz Umar showed some great political skills yet until the end some Ansars persisted and refused to give oath of allegiance to anyone except Imam Ali (as). Why was that?

  5. Why the pious companions such as Abu Dharr al-Ghifari, Abu Ayub Ansari, Miqdad Ibn Umar, Ammar b Yasir, Salman Farsi, Bilal b Ribah, Zayd Ibn Arqam, Qais Ibn Saad, Abdullah Ibne Abbas and many many more along with Banu Hashim (tribe of the Prophet) refused to recognise Abu Bakr as the succesor after all this? Read detailed accounts in history. Following is just couple of examples:

Al-Abbas ibn Abdul-Muttalib had told Abu Bakr that “If you demanded what you demanded through kinship to the messenger of allah, then you had confiscated our own. If you had demanded it due to your position among Muslims, then ours is a more prestigious than yours. If this affair is accomplished when the believers are pleased with it, then it cannot be so as long as we are displeased therewith.” (Ibn Qutaybah)

"A group of Muhajirs and Ansars kept themselves aloof from allegiance to Abu Bakr and were followers of Hazrat Ali (i.e. Shias of Ali). Among them were Abbas Bin Abdu’l-Muttalib… (Tareekh Al Yaqoobi)

  1. I will end this here but i will request to do 2 more things:

a) study the evidence from Quran and Seerat about the right of the succesorship of Imam Ali (as). There is too many for me to write here, for now anyway.

b) read on how the succesor of the Prophet, Imam Ali was treated once Abu Bakr took charge of the office. Also read of the khulafas’ treatment of the beloved daughter of the Prophet, Khatoon e Jannat Fatima Sallamullah Alaihay.

Re: A question to Sunni Brothers

First of all, I think ANY shia that thinks that Aisha r.a. was messed up (naouzubillah) is DIRECTLY insulting the choices and decisions of the Prophet pbuh. As if the Prophet pbuh wedded Aisha r.a. and made a mistake.

He doesnt make such mistakes, please understand that. Think for a second why the Prophet pbuh would do such a thing.

How can you so calmly claim that he made a mistake by marrying Aisha r.a. You are questioning his decisions and telling HIM what HE did wrong. Who are you to decide that?!

^^

well said :k:

Re: A question to Sunni Brothers

cresent: where does it say he (saw) made a mistake? and how is that relevant to the questions?

Re: A question to Sunni Brothers

Salam,

Ma Mooli, pagloo's first line, is what i'm responding too.

I just personally cannot comprehend how anyone can claim that Aisha r.a. was that evil, that she took the pen from the Prophet's (pbuh) hands before he passed away, that she told Abu Bakr r.a. to go lead, all these evil (fabricated) things that people ascribe to her.

I cannot comprehend how the Prophet pbuh would marry such an evil person? It doesn't make sense, that is the "mistake" I'm talking about. Its as if (naouzubillah) Prophet pbuh had no knowledge of how "evil" Aisha r.a. was.

I'm sorry but its ignorant and ridiculous!

Re: Split from "A question to Sunni Brothers": Abu Bakr's khilafat and BB Ayesha

^ i do not see anything wrong with Pagluu's post. He has refered his facts back to the authentic Sunni books.

We should try to put our emotions aside and try to analyse the things from stepping outside the square of thinking that we are brought up with.

Crescent, read the points Pagluu and Ma Mooli have made. And also read and analyse Sura # 66 Tehreem where Allah Subhana Wa Ta'lah has criticised Ayesha and Hafsa (wives of our Prophet) in very hard words. That proves that there is no exemptions in the eyes of Allah (swt).

Ayesha not only fought against Imam Ali but also played a pivotal role during the slaying of the 3rd Khalifa Usman. History gives a very interesting account of the events that remain largely unknown to people hence resulting in shock when openly discussed.

Its an account from Bukhari and other prominent books of history. Please share with us all if you have any alternative view on the events.

And please do not put words into my mouth as i never said that Prophet (pbuh) made a mistake nauzobillah!

Brothers Pathan Bhai and Pagluu – does the following make sense?!!!

The above states that the Prophet (saw) had died and that Hz. Umar (ra) was ‘seeking to deny the information of Prophet's departure and was in fact threatening to kill people who said that the Prophet (pbuh) was dead’.

And then Strange thing happens

He continued to do so until Hz Abu Bakr arrived and then he became "normal" and then they both went to BB Ayesha at Prophet's house. There the Prophet of Allah asks for a pen and paper to write an "important message" to which Umar was seriously against

Does this mean the Prophet (saw) became alive again and asked Hz. Umar (ra) and Hz. Abu Bakr (ra) for paper????????

Mixing the events up????!!!!

Wrong again!!!!!

"If anyone amongst you used to worship Muhummud (saws) then Muhummud is dead but (if any one of) you used to worship Allah then Allah is alive and shall never die.”

These famous words were uttered by Hz. Abu Bakr (ra) to re-assure the people who were devastated and overwhelmed by the death of the Prophet (saw).

Otherwise good questions brother Pagluu and these have been comfortably addressed over the centuries.

It is the last days of Ramadan so busy or want utilise time in better things – I’ll attempt to answer/address them after Eid – Insha’Allah

^ brother, sorry to spoil the fun but my post is in no chronological order. Even a simple man could see that '2' happened before '1', or '3' is not related to '1' & '2' and so on. Sorry for the disappointment.

And you are right it was indeed Hz Abu Bakr and not Ayesha who said that "Prophet is dead.....". I misread from Bukhari there. Thanks for pointing out the error. I will fix it rightnow.

Pagluu I know that your post is not in chronological order it is that your point no. 4 is quite a mess!

And you should know by now that I am not a simple man :-)

I appears that he Prophet (saw) died and when Hz. Umar (ra) Hz. Abu Bakr (ra) came into the room where the Prophet (saw) was - The Prophet (saw) then came alive and asked for pen and paper!!!!!

Ok, im just going to let you have this one, for the sake of analyzing.

Now why would the Prophet pbuh marry such a women if she was so evil? Indirectly you are trying to say he made a 'mistake' by marrying someone 'evil'.

And for the record bro, Surah Tehreem does not talk about Hafsa and Aisha r.a. It talks about Hadrat Safiyyah and Hadrat Mariyah Qibtiyyah.

Well, lets just not hear what i think of you for now. I know your intentions are to spread your 'gund' in this thread so it gets locked. But since you are a "simple" man and perhaps genuinly do not understand my previous post, i will fix it for your pleasure.

brother, please provide me the reference about what you are saying beause i have got a Saudi Arabian Quran in my hand (King Fahd University- ie Wahabi) and it is not saying what you are saying. It mentions the ayats in Sura Tehreem are for Ayesha and Hafsa. Sahih Bukhari, Sunan Imam Nasai, Imam Hanbal all say this ayat is for Ayesha and Hafsa. Infact Hz Ayesha herself has admitted to it in Sahi Bukhari.

Sahih al Bukhari Volume 6, Book 60, Number 434:

"Narrated 'Aisha: Allah's Apostle used to drink honey in the house of Zainab, the daughter of Jahsh, and would stay there with her. So Hafsa and I agreed secretly that, if he come to either of us, she would say to him. "It seems you have eaten Maghafir (a kind of bad-smelling resin), for I smell in you the smell of Maghafir," (We did so) and he replied. "No, but I was drinking honey in the house of Zainab, the daughter of Jahsh, and I shall never take it again. I have taken an oath as to that, and you should not tell anybody about it".

*Sahih al Bukhari Volume 6, Book 60, Number 437: *

"Narrated Ibn Abbas: I intended to ask 'Umar about those two ladies who back each other against 'Allah's Apostle . For one year I was seeking the opportunity to ask this question, but in vain, until once when I accompanied him for Hajj. While we were in Zahran, 'Umar went to answer the call of nature and told me to follow him with some water for ablution. So I followed him with a container of water and started pouring water for him. I found it a good opportunity to ask him, so I said, "O chief of the Believers! Who were those two ladies who had backed each other (against the Prophet)?" Before I could complete my question, he replied, "They were 'Aisha and Hafsa."

Prophet Mohammed (s.a.w.s.) declared, If a person levels an allegation (tohmat) against a believing man or woman for an act, which he/she has not done, then on the Day of Judgment, Allah, the Almighty, shall put him on a piece of fire until he is chastised for leveling that allegation.

Are you really that ignorant or are you just trying to defend Hafsa and Aisha thinking every other person who reads your post is an idiot? :mad:

Ahsanat bro! In addition to that:

Tafsir.com Tafsir Ibn Kathir

This is such a fabrication.

wsalams
ramesha

Yes I know, I've been on Answering Ansar.org too..

According to Syed Abu ala maududi's commentary on the surah, it states:

[quote]
In connection with the incident of tahrim referred to in this Surah, the traditions of the Hadith mention two ladies who were among the wives of the Holy Prophet (upon whom be peace) at that time: Hadrat Safiyyah and Hadrat Mariyah Qibtiyyah. The former (i.e. Hadrat Safiyyah) was taken to wife by the Holy Prophet after the conquest of Khaiber, and Khaiber was conquered, as has been unanimously reported, in A.H. 7. The other lady, Hadrat Mariyah, had been presented to the Holy Prophet by Muqawqis, the ruler of Egypt, in A. H. 7 and she had borne him his son, Ibrahim, in Dhil-Hijjah, A.H. 8.These historical events almost precisely determine that this Surah was sent down some time during A.H. 7 or A.H 8.
[/quote]
Another question on top of the question (unanswered so far because of the deviations) is why wouldn't Allah swt just name the wives directly instead of *not mentioning them? *

And if you are not too busy deviating, please answer my original question regarding how the Prophet pbuh MARRIED an evil person. Are you saying he had no knowledge of the evil Aisha r.a had in her? or was he too naive? or he made some sort of mistake? (Naouzubillah) How can you accept that the Prophet pbuh chose bad friends and bad wives, as if he was some person without wisdom...it makes no sense.

:smack:
May Allah guide us all and forgive us for our mishaps.

Re: Split from "A question to Sunni Brothers": Abu Bakr's khilafat and BB Ayesha

Edited: Please no offensive comments against any particular sect. It is better to share views only on the topic under discussion.

BOY-NICE – Just because it is ‘old defence for her’ doesn’t mean it is not valid.

So, according to you the ayah that I had quoted doesn’t not apply to the Prophet (saw) and seriously speaking that he didn’t even follow the advice he dished out to his followers!!!

We have hadith from Sunni source as follows where the Prophet (saw) is giving his precious advice to his followers the criteria to look for when looking for a wife:

*“A man marries a woman for four reasons: for her property, for her rank, for her beauty, and for her religion (and character). So marry the one who is best in the religion and character and prosper”. *

And form Shia sources as follows: advice from the Prophet (ra) and the (infallible) Imams (raa).

When a man came to the Holy Prophet (s.a.w.) to seek guidance for selecting a spouse. He (s.a.w.) said, “It is binding upon you to have a religious spouse.”

Knowing the human weakness for beauty and wealth, the Messenger of Allah (s.a.w.) has forewarned, “A man who marries a woman for the sake of her wealth, Allah leaves him in his own condition, and one who marries her (only) for her beauty, will find in her (things) which he dislikes (unpleasing manners) and Allah will gather up all these things for one who marries her for the sake of her faith (religiousness).”

B. Good nature: Imam Reza (a.s.) wrote in reply to a person who had asked him if it was advisable to marry his daughter to a person known for his ill nature, “If he is ill-natured (bad tempered), don’t marry your daughter to him.” The same will apply where the bride-to-be lacks a good nature. Such a woman, though she may be beautiful and rich, would make the life of her husband miserable. She can never be patient in the difficulties that arise in married life.

C. Compatibility: The Holy Prophet (s.a.w.) gave no recognition to class distinction, but in marriage, he stressed upon compatibility. The marrying partners must be Kufw of each other, so that there are no unnecessary misgivings later. It is better for a religious woman who is committed to laws and principles to marry a man like herself.

A man questioned the Prophet of Islam (s.a.w.), “Whom must we marry?”
He replied, “The suitable (matches).”
“Who are the suitable matches?”
The Prophet (s.a.w.) responded, “Some of the faithful are match for others.”

Imam Sadiq (a.s.) said, “An intelligent and wise woman must not be matched except with a sage and wise man.”

D. Decent Family: The Messenger of Allah (s.a.w.) has given great emphasis on taking into consideration a good family background when we intend to marry.

**Source: ** Islamic Marriage (Nikaah) Handbook for Young Muslims, Muslim Wedding and Marriage Guide

Remember that Shia consider the Prophet (saw) and their Imams infallible and have fore-knowledge of all things.

So to conclude you would have agree that the Prophet (saw) knowingly married as Shia would have it a ‘wicked heinous person’.

Is your answer to this a ‘Yes’

Please let’s clarify this and we will move forward to other points which you have raised.

If you still insist to hold the view that you have as a Shia then you must agree that the Prophet (saw) was helpless and didn’t follow his own advice which he dished to others. [He is far from being such]