Split from "A question to Sunni Brothers": Abu Bakr's khilafat and BB Ayesha

You are taking the debate to somewhere else. Firstly, we were talking about the verse used by you in order to provide immunity to Ayesha’s sins while I was arguing that the cited verse has nothing to do with the general marriages rather it is saying that a fornicator shall marry a fornicatress and vice versa while ‘chaste’ man man shall seek for ‘chaste’ womamn [Sunni source, Tafsir Fatah al-Qadeeer, Shia source Tabeen al-Quran, by Muhammad Shirazi). So your self interpretation of cited verse and using it to provide a cover to Ayesha is useless. We have seen in past that noble personalities had wives who turned out to evil. EG, the wife of Imam Hassan [as] poisoned him and if we go by your intepretation of the verse, that will declare Imam Hassan [as] as evil too (naudobillah).

Secondly, your use of traditions doesnt suit here as well since Prophet [s] had different time what we have today. He had to marry to the woman of some of the influential tribes in order to have an apportunity to spread Islam among those tribes, that is why we see that he was allowed to keep number of wives which we arent allowed. Thus if at that point of time, if he did marry with a woman with less Imaan, there shouldnt be any surprise [her acts recorded in books proved it anyway].

Thus, the cojecture of using the cited verse to provide a cover to all the sins of hz Ayesha is a feeble attempt. We have to remember that if she was such a obedient wife of Prophet [s], why would came a time when the Holy Quran had to admonish Ayesha and threaten her to divorce! You talked about nature then we see that Ayesha once disrespected so much that Abu Bakar had to intervene and slapped her. Various other incidents recorded shows that hz Ayesha was not the most superioir wife of Holy Prophet [s] as claimed by her followers.

brother, if you want me to apologise for using a reference from answering-ansar.com then i should perhaps also say sorry on the behalf of Muhammad Ismael Bukhari for writing these riwayats in his book. If your comments like these are not deviations, which you are accusing me of, then i do not know what is.

And you are consistantly repeating yourself. The discussion about Ayesha is underway in the same thread where you are at the moment. And most of the references i see are from Quran, i.e. the book of Allah. If you wish to see somethingelse as a proof then please enlighten us all.

BOY-NICE So I take that you have agreed to that the Prophet (saw) did not follow his own on advice which he dished out to others about what to look for in wife.

Apparently according to you he made a hopeless choice - How could marrying such a ‘wicked heinous person’ have an apportunity to spread Islam among those tribes?

I am not changing the topic but want to make sure that first we tackle your stance towards Hz. Ayeisha (ra). And the Prophet (saw) married her even though he accoding to Shias knows all the future.

Yes, the instances you have stated are true but it’s on record that she did repent.

It is Shia belief that the Prophet (saw) and your infallible Imams know all the future and all the past.

So did the Prophet marry this vile person to ‘in order to have an opportunity to spread Islam’?

Did the Prophet (saw) have the advance knowledge that this ‘vile heinous’ person is going to damage the very message he struggled to spread?

Re: Split from "A question to Sunni Brothers": Abu Bakr's khilafat and BB Ayesha

^my knowledge on the topic is limited but i have read that Prophet did warn his wife against it. One such tradition is abou the Dogs of Hawaab.

From where are you bringing the knowledge of unseen in between??

  1. Didnt Allah have the knowledge of unseen that Iblis who once was the most devoted worshiper of Allah would leter turned out to be His own enemy? Yet we see Allah kept him with him for thousands of years?

  2. Didnt Allah have the knowledge that the wife of his prophet Noah was not going to bring faith in the true religion? Yet He allowed his propeht to marry her?

  3. Didnt Allah have the knowledge that the wife of his prophet Lut was not going to bring faith in the true religion? Yet He allowed his propeht to marry her?

What are we arguing here? Ok lets make it straight:

  1. Do you deny that Ayesha wasnt jealous of other wivies of Holy Prophet?

  2. Do you deny that Allah testified that Ayesha’s heart had diverted from the right path? (Surah Tahrim)?

  3. Do you deny that Allah threatened that Ayesha to divorce and said that there were better women available than her for Prophet to marry (Surah Tahrim)?

  4. Do you deny that Ayesha and Hafsa conspired against Holy Prophet [s] and attributed a lie to Him?

  5. Do you deny that she one disrespected Prophet so much that Abu Bakar had to intervene and slap her?

  6. Do you deny that Prophet [s[ had clearly predicted that Ayesha will do a rebellion?

  7. Do you deny that Prophet [s] predicted that she will be accompanied by infidels?

  8. Do you deny that Prophet [s] warned her to watch out the dogs of Hawab yet she on finding it didnt pay heed to the words of his husband who was also a Prophet and persisted with it?

  9. Do you deny that she violated the instruction of Holy Quran to remain in the house (Surah Ahzab)?

  10. Do you deny Prophet had clearly stated that in such a situation, the truth will be with Ali bin Abi Talib [as]? Which obviously means that she was on the path which is contrary to the path of truth!

  11. Do you deny Ayesha hated Ali bin Abi Talib [as], which according to both Shia and Sunni belief is an act of Kufr and hypocrisy?

  12. Do you deny that she murdered thousands of Muslims and the punishment of murdering a single man is very well known in Quran?

  13. Do you deny her role in agitation against Uthman which subsiquently murdered him?

  14. Do you deny that Quran had clearly made it clear to the wives of Prophet that if they commit a crime/sin, their punishment will be double than those of other woman?

etc…

Of course no one can deny the above charge sheet since its all documented in Quran and other books! Then what are we arguing for? I mean, what is left to argue ‘after these things’ ?

^ that's true - Question is why did the Prophet (saw) marry knowing all that will occur.

Marrying her reflects directly upon the Prophet (saw) and you cannot deny this fact.

(this reply is for Surdar Asif)

Do you know its answer? If yes then you must also answer the first three questions I had raised above regarding the knowledge of Unseen!

Btw, its a big thing that you accepted all above crimes/sins of Ayesha to eb ture! For any impartial one, this would have been suffice to know the truth but since you are in a certain way trapped, you have no other choice than to keep searching for some 'sentences' to use after all these. But that is understandable!

**Boy - nice **

You have just ingored the questions that I asked you in my last 2 posts please answer them before you ask your questions.

I promise to answer all your questions let’s see what you have to say.

Please address the following:

BOY-NICE You stated the following:

What erroneous example - you are talking about Allah (swt)!!!

I have given you hadith from Shia and Sunni sources of Prophet’s (saw) advice to his followers what to look for in the wife and he himself doesn’t live up to his own advice.

Subhan Allah Our Prophet (saw) is beyond such hypocrisy!!!

Re: Split from "A question to Sunni Brothers": Abu Bakr's khilafat and BB Ayesha

very poor arguements by these shias..Quran openly called wifes of prophet as mothers of all muslims and these shias r insulting Hazrat ayesha...huh..

so When ALLAh kept Ibleees with him for so long and later on Iblees went against him does that Mean ALLAH made a mistake on the first place to keep iblees with him ? didnt ALLAH know Iblees is gona go againt ALLAH later on ?

Oh God, so y did ALLAH use such strong words for any of Rasool s.a.w wife ... isnt that contradicting to ur earlier post askin.... if a we call a wife of Prophet s.a.w wrong then we r challenging Rasool s.a.w decision of marrying em ??? or is it only if he talk abt aisha or hafsa ?

  1. Bro, Are you SERIOUSLY comparing the Prophet pbuh with Allah swt?

  2. Allah didn't shun out the wives, he pointed out faults which his wives had. Faults which humans have. Thats why no names were mentioned in the Surah, there is Hikmah behind that. That doesn't give people open passage to curse and ridicule figures that the PROPHET s.a.w married.

I know no matter what I say will change your stance on the matter. But I do advise you to keep these matters to yourself, and within the shia community. Its not healthy to curse and ascribe such ill things to people we cherish most just because you've been led to believe so.

My best friend is shia, and regardless of what he does in majlis and at his home, he knows better to say things like that out in public. Its just an advice, May Allah guide us all.

The basic argument of this thread actually started in another thread but was separated in the form of a new thread with a consideration that it might lead to a fruitful and friendly discussion to bridge relations between shias and sunnis. But apparently it seems to be increasing the gap between the two sects and might lead to more hatred.

When one group has the highest respect for a person, and is not ready to listen to anything against her, while the other group is strongly against a lot of her decisions, we don't expect a healthy debate as it is evident from some of the posts that some of the offensive comments might deeply hurt the feelings of the readers and develop negative thoughts in their mind against the opponents.

I am closing this thread with an intention that if this argument is allowed to develop further, it would serve no good to improve relations between the two sects, because in the end no one from both the sects is going to accept the reasoning or aggressive comments of the opponent (As has been observed is most of such threads in the past).