split discussion regarding history - pakistan and india

[ssingh]

Re: split discussion regarding history - pakistan and india

In this thread you guys are talking about Katasraj temple in pakistan. How come?..it looks similar to the one we follow.

http://www.paklinks.com/gs/showthread.php?t=242640

[Abhiman]

Re: split discussion regarding history - pakistan and india

@ssingh

Hindu is derived from the Rig Veda. It comes from the Vedic Aryans who called themselves the people of Sindhu. Oddly enough the name is still retained in the place "sindh" in Pakistan. Once again, get this light skinned worshipping out of your head. You are not light skinnedd. When a Persian or a Mughal (who also arent white) says jump, you say how high.

ssingh, you took the words out of my mouth. Sindh in Pakistan is from Sindhu, whose etymology descends to Hindu and Indians. So I mean like Pakistanis are Hindus.

roadrunner the RigVeda prohibits cow-slaughter in 17 places. It however simply hints at bull or oxen killing at one or two places. This is entirely different. Today also, in India at any place, cows are worshipped and not bullocks (not much at all).

[roadrunner]

Re: split discussion regarding history - pakistan and india

Originally Posted by ssingh
Hindu is derived from the Rig Veda. It comes from the Vedic Aryans who called themselves the people of Sindhu. Oddly enough the name is still retained in the place “sindh” in Pakistan. Once again, get this light skinned worshipping out of your head. You are not light skinnedd. When a Persian or a Mughal (who also arent white) says jump, you say how high.

@Abhiman

ssingh, you took the words out of my mouth. Sindh in Pakistan is from Sindhu, whose etymology descends to Hindu and Indians. So I mean like Pakistanis are Hindus.

^^Abhiman, those are my words, not ssingh. Thanks for agreeing, and then contradicting yourself in your next paragraph.

@Abhiman

Sindh in Pakistan is from Sindhu, whose etymology descends to Hindu and Indians. So I mean like Pakistanis are Hindus.

Sindh in Pakistan is from Sindhu. Correct. It’s etymology is from Sapta Sindhu, and from this descends the word Hindu. This means that the real Hindus were the Vedic Aryans of Pakistan. You have even pilfered this from ancient Pakistan. Not a single thing you have left. Real Hindus (and if Pakistanis can broaden their mind past them thinking it to be a dirty word), were in fact Vedic Aryans, before modern day Hindus who are Gangetic Brahminical people and completely different culturally, philosophically and genetically, went and stole the name.

roadrunner the RigVeda prohibits cow-slaughter in 17 places. It however simply hints at bull or oxen killing at one or two places. This is entirely different. Today also, in India at any place, cows are worshipped and not bullocks (not much at all).

If you read Rig Veda, it says quite clearly that cows were ate by Indra. The reference has been provided.

[roadrunner]

Re: split discussion regarding history - pakistan and india

@ssingh

The main gods of rig veda are indra and agni. Both are still worshipped in india. More so agni. Rig veda speaks against eating beef and many still dont in india.

Sissingh, I dont have time to correct all your nonsense. If I have time I'll come back to it.

But you're missing the point. Indra and Agni were worshipped by the Vedic Aryans of ancient PAKISTAN/Saptha Sindhu. When a couple of Vedic Aryans moved from the region of Pakistan to the Ganges, they added on some of the more darker Gods you see now to please their Dravidian followers. The Dravidians then usurped power from the Vedic Aryans and developed Hinduism and wrote tales of the Dravidian Gods, defeating the lighter Gods of the Vedic Aryans in books like the Mahabharrata.

The point, which I know you have missed, is this. Modern Hinduism is a development of the Aryan culture of the Vedic people from Pakistan, so they have stolen the ideas, the Gods, the books, and explanded on them to form a completely new religion which the ancient Vedic Pakistanis would not have accepted.

[ssingh]

Re: split discussion regarding history - pakistan and india

@roadrunner

Sissingh, I dont have time to correct all your nonsense. If I have time I'll come back to it.

But you're missing the point. Indra and Agni were worshipped by the Vedic Aryans of ancient PAKISTAN/Saptha Sindhu. When a couple of Vedic Aryans moved from the region of Pakistan to the Ganges, they added on some of the more darker Gods you see now to please their Dravidian followers. The Dravidians then usurped power from the Vedic Aryans and developed Hinduism and wrote tales of the Dravidian Gods, defeating the lighter Gods of the Vedic Aryans in books like the Mahabharrata.

The point, which I know you have missed, is this. Modern Hinduism is a development of the Aryan culture of the Vedic people from Pakistan, so they have stolen the ideas, the Gods, the books, and explanded on them to form a completely new religion which the ancient Vedic Pakistanis would not have accepted.

can you correct this nonsense as well??.....Rishi atharvan is the composer of atharva veda. He is a tamilian and dravidian.

Next time you post, tell me what are all those so called darker gods you mentioned?...

I am waiting for this.

[ssingh]

Re: split discussion regarding history - pakistan and india

@roadrunner

^^

If you read Rig Veda, it says quite clearly that cows were ate by Indra. The reference has been provided.

Indra is a god of indriyas or senses. Do u believe that a god came down to earth to eat cows?....

[ssingh]

Re: split discussion regarding history - pakistan and india

and u are ignoring this verse.

16 The fiend who smears himself with flesh of cattle, with flesh of horses and of human bodies,
Who steals the milch-cow’s milk away, O Agni,-tear off the heads of such with fiery fury.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/rigveda/rv10087.htm

[roadrunner]

Re: split discussion regarding history - pakistan and india

@ssingh

can you correct this nonsense as well??.....Rishi atharvan is the composer of atharva veda. He is a tamilian and dravidian.

Next time you post, tell me what are all those so called darker gods you mentioned?...

I am waiting for this.

I suppose I have to spell it out for you. The Rig Veda was the books of the Vedic Aryans written around 1200 BC. This was written in Pakistan and what true Vedism was. The Artha Veda was written 800 years later in the Ganges, after the Vedic Aryans had brought the Rig Veda to the Ganges. Perhaps it was written by a Tamilian, but just because it has Veda at the end of it, does not mean the Rig Veda belongs to you.

The darker Gods that were created later were Shiva and Krishna, and some others

[roadrunner]

Re: split discussion regarding history - pakistan and india

@ssingh

and u are ignoring this verse.

16 The fiend who smears himself with flesh of cattle, with flesh of horses and of human bodies,
Who steals the milch-cow’s milk away, O Agni,-tear off the heads of such with fiery fury.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/rigveda/rv10087.htm

The verse treats cows and horses as the same. i dont see how this means cows are anything special. Just dont kill them and waste the meat by smearing it on you it sounds like. Last part looks like it says dont steal milk.

Now this verse makes it clear that the Vedic Gods ate cows

"11 Let us serve Agni with our hymns, Disposer, fed on ox and cow,
Who bears the Soma on his back."
http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/rigveda/rv10043.htm

The cow comes from the horse according to the Rig Veda I believe it says at some point.
This isnt what modern day Hindus believe of course. The cow in Hinduism is worshipped. The cow sacrifices are banned. So is beef eating. the Vedic Aryans used to sacrifice them up to Indra and it even says how to cook them before eating them in the Rig Veda. Hinduism and Vedism were completely different.

[ssingh]

Re: split discussion regarding history - pakistan and india

@roadrunner

I suppose I have to spell it out for you. The Rig Veda was the books of the Vedic Aryans written around 1200 BC. This was written in Pakistan and what true Vedism was. The Artha Veda was written 800 years later in the Ganges, after the Vedic Aryans had brought the Rig Veda to the Ganges. Perhaps it was written by a Tamilian, but just because it has Veda at the end of it, does not mean the Rig Veda belongs to you.

The darker Gods that were created later were Shiva and Krishna, and some others

I knew u will tell this. Then how come the gods of rig veda and other vedas are same?.....Agni indra are mentioned in other vedas as well. This is true that Rig veda was composed around the regions of pakistan.atleast with the evidence which tells. it could be even iran or afghanistan.

Do you know that another name of shiva is rudra which is mentioned in rig veda?. krishna is not mentioned but his another name vishnu is mentioned in rig veda. If you are also referring to Ganapathi, it is also mentioned in rig veda called brahmanaspathi. How come?..

You know what, with all this discussion, u cannot tell anything with confidence. Aryans did come to subcontinent. They didn't bring rig veda, they just invaded. Basically both aryans and dravidians were both, followers of vedic religion. Only thing is one invaded the other. that's all i can conclude.

[ssingh]

Re: split discussion regarding history - pakistan and india

@roadrunner

The verse treats cows and horses as the same. i dont see how this means cows are anything special. Just dont kill them and waste the meat by smearing it on you it sounds like. Last part looks like it says dont steal milk.

Now this verse makes it clear that the Vedic Gods ate cows

"11 Let us serve Agni with our hymns, Disposer, fed on ox and cow,
Who bears the Soma on his back."
http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/rigveda/rv10043.htm

Meanings are multiple buddy…I explained this earlier. But was deleted i guess. Ox and cow stand for satvic guna(urge towards spiritual knowledge). This is the meaning according aurobindo(a known vedic scholar) and by swami dayananda as well. Agni is kundalini power of a person. and soma is the spiritual experience which a person has after awakening kundalini power. U will understand this if u know something about Raja yoga.

[roadrunner]

Re: split discussion regarding history - pakistan and india

@ssingh

I knew u will tell this. Then how come the gods of rig veda and other vedas are same?.....Agni indra are mentioned in other vedas as well. This is true that Rig veda was composed around the regions of pakistan.atleast with the evidence which tells. it could be even iran or afghanistan.

The Rig Vedic Gods came first from the Vedic Aryans. Then a couple of Vedic Aryans moved to the Ganges. The Dravidians there usurped power from the Vedic Aryans who brought with them Vedism, and added on some heroic Dravidian Gods that defeated the Aryan Gods of their masters to make them feel better about themselves. Isn't it obvious why the Gods of the Rig Veda overlap with the Gods of Hinduism?

[roadrunner]

Re: split discussion regarding history - pakistan and india

@ssingh

You know what, with all this discussion, u cannot tell anything with confidence. Aryans did come to subcontinent. They didn't bring rig veda, they just invaded. Basically both aryans and dravidians were both, followers of vedic religion. Only thing is one invaded the other. that's all i can conclude.

Aryans went to Pakistani, not Indian subcontinent. They wrote the Rig Veda, that much is obvious as they created the Aryan Gods. They didnt necessarily stage an invasion either.

[ssingh]

Re: split discussion regarding history - pakistan and india

@roadrunner

The Rig Vedic Gods came first from the Vedic Aryans. Then a couple of Vedic Aryans moved to the Ganges. The Dravidians there usurped power from the Vedic Aryans who brought with them Vedism, and added on some heroic Dravidian Gods that defeated the Aryan Gods of their masters to make them feel better about themselves. Isn't it obvious why the Gods of the Rig Veda overlap with the Gods of Hinduism?

Nobody usurped power. Invaders were aryans who tried to usurp power(as per theory). not the other way. This is an all together new theory . Forget gods, even language, some mantras and all are same as well. and it was Maharshi veda vyas who divided vedas in to four groups called Rig(veda of hymns), yajur(veda of sacrificial prayers), sama (veda of chants) and atharva(veda of fire priests). The mantras were composed by different priests at different points of time and veda vyas compiled it into four, supposedly at the start of kali age.

[ssingh]

Re: split discussion regarding history - pakistan and india

@roadrunner

Aryans went to Pakistani, not Indian subcontinent. They wrote the Rig Veda, that much is obvious as they created the Aryan Gods. They didnt necessarily stage an invasion either.

we all are discussing a theory over here. Rig veda might have main contribution from aryans. But can be negated as well. You know, pakistan was not just inhabited by aryans. but by others as well. and that is exactly which aryan invasion/migration theory states(which you support).

[infiniti]

Re: split discussion regarding history - pakistan and india

I never knew Pakistanis (atleast 2) are so fond of their Indian gods, as I said earlier it only flatters me. I want to do a poll and find out how many Pakistanis really respect their Vedantic gods.

[Abhiman]

Re: split discussion regarding history - pakistan and india

@roadrunner

Now this verse makes it clear that the Vedic Gods ate cows

"11 Let us serve Agni with our hymns, Disposer, fed on ox and cow,
Who bears the Soma on his back."
http://www.sacred-texts.com/hin/rigveda/rv10043.htm

The cow comes from the horse according to the Rig Veda I believe it says at some point.
This isnt what modern day Hindus believe of course. The cow in Hinduism is worshipped. The cow sacrifices are banned. So is beef eating. the Vedic Aryans used to sacrifice them up to Indra and it even says how to cook them before eating them in the Rig Veda. Hinduism and Vedism were completely different.

Agni is the fire God. The Ox and Cow that are being refered to are offered for cremation to Agni after they are dead. Hindus cremate their dead to this day.
Animals like cows weren’t simply disposed when they died, but cremated; other animals weren’t given the same treatment.

References in the Rig Veda against cow slaughter :

You should impart love to each other as the non-killable cow does for its calf. RgVeda VII.56.17 Punish the killer of the cow and the man. RgVeda VIII.101.15 Cow is pure, do not kill it. RgVeda X.10.87.16 RgVeda VI.28.3 states Enemy may not use any “astra” i.e. weapon on cows RgVeda VI.28.4 states Nobody should take them to butcher house to kill them

[roadrunner]

Re: split discussion regarding history - pakistan and india

@infiniti

I never knew Pakistanis (atleast 2) are so fond of their Indian gods, as I said earlier it only flatters me. I want to do a poll and find out how many Pakistanis really respect their Vedantic gods.

They're not Indian Gods. They were the Gods of the Vedic people who lived in the Pak region. India simply adopted these Gods and added on some of their own.

[ssingh]

Re: split discussion regarding history - pakistan and india

@roadrunner

They’re not Indian Gods. They were the Gods of the Vedic people who lived in the Pak region. India simply adopted these Gods and added on some of their own.

…

[ssingh]

Re: split discussion regarding history - pakistan and india

@infiniti

I never knew Pakistanis (atleast 2) are so fond of their Indian gods, as I said earlier it only flatters me. I want to do a poll and find out how many Pakistanis really respect their Vedantic gods.

Forget gods, you should also see some pakistanis who keep claiming that Tipu sultan was as though their own as he is famous for making missiles or rockets of that time.