split discussion regarding history - pakistan and india

Arts & Culture Culture, Arts, Literature & Linguistics
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They refered to all the people living on that side of the Sindhu as Hindus (a geographic parameter has to be given). The ancestors of that region would be ours, since their literature, language and culture has been passed to us. Indra is a god worshipped in India, Agni and Prithvi are names of missiles, besides being worshipped in India in the same way they were 3000 years ago (by a purohit who chants mantras from the Vedas).

Anyway, today’s political map of Pakistan is not an indication of any “claim” or disclaim. Just as Pakistan’s national tongue, Urdu, comes from India, India’s mother of all languages i.e. Sanskrit, its sacred text i.e. RigVeda, comes from the territory which is today called the political area of Pakistan.

I guess like if the region of Kurukshetra was made to fall in modern Pakistan by the British official (Radcliffe I think) who was drawing boundaries just before partition, you may have said that Mahabharata is not a Hindu epic, but a Pakistani one !

Persians/Mughals did not confer the term Hindu merely to those people who lived on the banks of the Sindhu, they extended it to all those living well inside India during their conquest to refer to All the people who had that particular way of life different from their own.

Its etymology finally ended when the British called all those living in the entire Indian subcontinent as Indians.

“Hindu” was just a label given to us by Persians and Mughals. That does not change the fact that the Vedas and Vedic Sanskrit have always been, are still and will be our holiest sacredmost canonical texts. So what if they were composed in the territory that is in today’s political map of Pakistan ?

I’ve also seen claims something like Sanskrit is a Pakistani language because Panini lived in an area that falls in Pakistan. Yoga is a Pakistani art because RigVed mentions it first and RigVeds was written in an area that falls in Pakistan.

Modern Egyptians do not have any cultural links with the Egyptian civilization. Similarly, Pakistanis do not have any cultural links to RigVedic peoples.

Anyway, the Vedas do mention Ganges, Himalayas, and many other geographical entities in India. However I’ll discuss it later on.

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Re: An educational thread on the differences between Pakistanis and neighbouring populi

^
Rig-Vedic history is Pakistan’s history because it was in our region; our land our ruins, and because Rig-Vedic people were our ancestors; only very few Indians (from the NW) are also descended from them, most Indians just copied them.

Similarly our country also has claim to the Indus-Valley civilisations because our region was its cradle and centre, and as well as being descended from the Rig-Vedic people we Pakistanis are also descended from the Indus-Valley people who were an Aryo-Dravidian Amalgam just like our people today (but due to the Rig-Vedic people and the Aryans amongst us prior to that we are more Aryan than Dravidian unlike India which is mostly racially Dravidian even in the North).

We’ve also got Iranian, Arab and Turk blood mixed into us from those who settled amongst us and became a part our people, but they we’re a minority.

Most North Indians (North-Central, North-Eastern) were and are Dravidians, who were just copycats who seeing the superior language and culture of Pakistanis’ Aryan ancestors started to ape them and that’s how they come to speak Aryan languages and follow a religion with Aryan roots.

Urdu/Hindi might have evolved to its present state in what’s known as India today but it is a Sanskritic language and Sanskrit was the language of our region and our ancestors (your ancestors just adopted it) so it has roots in Pakistan, North Indians got their Sanskritic/Indic Aryan languages from Indus (Pakistan). Language is the greatest hallmark of any nations culture and in the modern cosmopolitan world the only hallmark of culture, and Urdu along with other Sanskritic languages has it’s roots in Pakistan, I guess we should claim back Sanskrit from the Dravidians.

Make no mistake we are happy with Almighty Allah as our Lord, we’ve left the Pagan religion of our ancestors for a true/universal religion but we wish to retain our national identity/history, our national history is ours whether we choose to be proud of it or trash it.

We Pakistanis are Muslims today but that doesn’t change our national history and it doesn’t make our national history your national history simply because you follow an adultered version of our ancestors’ religion, or speak their language.

By your twisted logic the Greeks have no claim to their history anymore because they’re not Pagan anymore but Orthodox Christian yet if some Dravidian from Chatna-Patna starts worshipping Zeus he automatically gets claim to ancient Greek civilisation. What twisted logic!!

On one hand you idiots never tire of telling us Pakistanis will not become Arabs by being Muslim (I agree and Islam doesn’t require that) and then on the other you’re claiming the history of our Imperialistic forefathers simply because you follow an adultered version of their religion and you discarded your own Dravidian culture/language for their Aryan culture/language.

Remember nationality is different from religion.

India has no identity of it’s own, it’s culture/heritage/history and religion all has its roots in Pakistan…

How sad that we’re ashamed of being associated with our culture because you Dravidians (Indians) have hijacked it and it’s come to be associated with you, you Dravidians (Indians) should convert back to your Dravidian tongues so that Pakistanis no longer have to be associated with you and we can claim back our Sanskritic languages and stand proud with our Indo-Iranian cousins/neighbours to the west (yes Sanskritic people were related to them that’s why their descendents Pakis/East-Punjabis look like them), you can keep the paganism though as a used gift no longer good enough for us.. :stuck_out_tongue:

Jai Pakistan
Pakistan Paindabad.. :jhanda:

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Re: An educational thread on the differences between Pakistanis and neighbouring populi

WOW what a research ///!!???.
Noble Prize insted of Nobel Prize...Nonsense..Quod Erat Demonstrandum

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Re: An educational thread on the differences between Pakistanis and neighbouring populi

It should only flatter Indians to see a few Pakistanis lay claim on the ancient Indian history, languages and characters and even it's name. Well if you guys really like your Indian roots you have the right to feel proud of it. I am not a hindu but I am proud of the ancient Indian culture coz it's my culture. Without the intention of offending anyone, if this sense of love and belonging for the ancient Indian culture pervades in the majority of present day Pakistanis then I do not see why Pakistan will not again be unified with India.

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Re: An educational thread on the differences between Pakistanis and neighbouring populi

If India and pakistan can unite to form they will form a greatest nation on this earth and lo a double whammy...nukes and more nukes..we will push bush into a mulberrybush alongwith rice :)

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Re: An educational thread on the differences between Pakistanis and neighbouring populi

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Abhey be-pehchan, be-tehzeeb, be-saqafat Hindu…

It is not “Ancient Indian” history, everything which falls in the boundary of Pakistan and is from the ancestors of Pakistanis is Pakistani history, the name “India” did not exist back then, India is a new name given to you by your British masters and was derived from “Hind” given to you by your Arab masters and our brothers (17 yr old Muhammad Bin Qasim :rehmat: etc.) who came to rescue their Muslim brethren in South-Asia from Hindu persecution/opression at the hands of Raja Dahir and his thugs.

Just because presentday Pakistan and India were part of the same empires/confederations for certain periods during history does not make them one nation or race..

Vedic civlisation is solely Pakistan’s heritage (whose language, culture and religion you Indians copied) because we alone (and some NW Indians) are descended from them , most you Indians are not. As for Indus Valley Civilisation they are mostly our heritage because it was in our land, and we are their direct descendents and they were an amalgam of Aryan/Dravidian, so I guess because of the Dravidian in them you have some racial simailrities with them but it’s our land so our ruins.

We’ll never be one unless India becomes 100% Muslim, we only have linguistic/cultural simialrities with you because you copied our language, the only Indians we are racially identical to is the Sikhs and few other NW Indians bordering us, most of you are racially different Dravidians.

Secondly religion is enough for us to be seperate from you, at least Pakistanis don’t have to live in persecution for their faith like Indian Muslims at the hand of fundo Hindus (Shiv-Sena, Bajrang-Dal, Ranvir-Sena etc.), .. Hindus consider Muslim impure and some of them wont even live in the same residential blocks as Muslim or Christians (this is the modern and educated in urban areas like Bombay), Indian Muslim have to constantly wag their tails and keep reiterating their patritiotism like dogs at every step yet that’s still not enough for you Hindus who ridicule their faith in movies, portray them as criminals, look for excuses to slaughter them (Gujarat, Kashmir etc.)… Some Pakis/Muslims might be a bit dazzled by the fake glitter and glamour of Bollywood but in reality India is a hellhole especially for Muslims. Indians come of as the nicest, politest, most loving bunch of people to ones face but they’re cunning, backstabbing and two faced (I didn’t use to believe this till I expereicned this myself), so I don’t think any Paki would want to be a part of the same country as such people, we want peace but that doesn’t mean we want unity.

Sorry if I come of as a bit bitter but I’m being realistic, I use to get in fights all the time with white kids who would ridicule bhajan singing Hindu women and their “Budhha spots” after watching Hindu documentaries in Religious Education.. But I’ve found that Hindus can be just as hateful (if not more) towards us than Whites to either of us.

Sweet talk is not going to have any effect on sane Pakistanis and will not earn you the heritage/history you lkost during 1947.

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Re: An educational thread on the differences between Pakistanis and neighbouring populi

and just because rig veda was composed in pakistan, it doesn’t mean anything actually. all other scriptures were composed in india itself and i have already given instance in rig veda where people didn’t eat beef.

P.S…Pakistanis are different from us

END OF DISCUSSION

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Re: An educational thread on the differences between Pakistanis and neighbouring populi

[quote]
P.S...Pakistanis are different from us
[/quote]

Too right, handsome/manly Pakistanis have nothing in common with you melay/fairy Indians.

I don't mean minoirty Indians from the NW (Sikhs/Hindus) because even though they hate us we are still of the same flesh and blood as them.

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Re: An educational thread on the differences between Pakistanis and neighbouring populi

But the basis for your language, culture and religion came from Pakistan.

~ Bachelor Auction
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Re: An educational thread on the differences between Pakistanis and neighbouring populi

right!.....

Engagement Pics
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Re: An educational thread on the differences between Pakistanis and neighbouring populi

.....when ever you want, you say india didn't exist at that time. how come pakistan existed at that time?......dont try to prove that as though we indians owe you a lot. that too when you dislike any those language, culture or religion.

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Re: An educational thread on the differences between Pakistanis and neighbouring populi

Hey ssingh, why do you even bother to explain it to him. Cant you see he does not want to open his eyes. He's like a dhobi ka kutta (I dont mean that promiscuous_paki is a dog, wanted to clarify because I do not understand his mind and various inferiority complexes) right now. Wants to stick to his old heritage but at the same time wants to prove that Islamic culture is better than his older Hindu culture.

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Re: An educational thread on the differences between Pakistanis and neighbouring populi

mind ur language. why u show ur cheapness in all the threads?

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Re: An educational thread on the differences between Pakistanis and neighbouring populi

Sir, you are getting too excited and moving away from the topic. I suggest you calm down,ye le lassi pee and thand rakh :). I just put my thoughts on what I feel about the India-Pakistan unification and you have gone completely berserk talking at length about the condition of muslims (and all minorities) in India. I am myself from a minority religion (not a muslim) but I never felt that. Leave our muslims and all our other minorities to us and let’s not talk about the minorities coz you also have some. The hindu minority in Pakistan, whose ancient Indian culture you claim as yours, is now less than 1 % of the total pakistani population. So, my buddy let’s not talk about minorities and stick to the topic at hand.

I do not want to take your heritage away from you, if you feel it belongs to you then it’s yours.

All I am saying is that the ancient Indian/Hindu/Buddhist (wahtever you call it) heritage is mine as well, because I relate to it and probably know a lot more about it than you. It’s in my culture and my blood (although I do not know if I belong to the Aryan race you keep on talking about). Can you even recite a Sanskrit shlok? Do you even know anything about the Indian history during those times? You dont and you still say that this heritage belongs to you more than me. If you feel Taj Mahal belongs to you, then sure it is yours . But it also belongs to me and I do not object that it’s not yours.

I am sure you would not have had the same love (or lust) for your ancient Indian heritage had you been born in the 1500’s when Pakistan was not in existence. Harappa - Mohenjodaro (along with vedantism) which is considered as the cradle of civilization has been there for thousands of years, and has seen

Sorry have to go now. Will continue later.

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Re: An educational thread on the differences between Pakistanis and neighbouring populi

Pakistan had to be created for a community which burnt bridges, they had no nation to fall back upon in 1947 unlike the British who had colonies all over the world but did not burn bridges and went back. A chunk was created based on what a stupid requirement..religion, which propagates intolerance as I have seen after reading so many posts about religion. One way it was a blessing in disguise, otherwise whole continent would have been a hell for the whole world. Now hell does exist but is localised.

Tell me one country in which muslims haven’t created a mess !!.

Before 1930, what was the name of the land in which you or your ancestors were born ? You don’t have to do a search on wikipedia.!!

My dear friend, nobody is gonna give two anal hoots to your new theories about this Indian-subcontinent. There are some pakis who have invented a new term Pak-Indo subcontinent…clear indication that even after 5 decades these guys are still suffering from an identity crisis. Keep chasing this mirage.!!:mad:

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Re: split discussion regarding history - pakistan and india

Hahahahaha, it’s nice to see you poor identityless Dravidians (Indians) tapp-ing.. :rotfl:

We Pakistanis abandoned Vedic religion because it was not good enough for us but whether we choose to follow it or throw it in the garbage bin is entirely upto us, it doesn’t change the fact that you Indians got it from us, hamaarey tukrron pe pal rahey ho..

Vedic religion is nothing more than fairytales for us anymore, not a part of our presentday religious identity but it’s merely our history (like Celtic-Paganism is part of Britians history even though Britain is Christian now). However the secular aspects of our ancient national identity is a part of our identity today as it was back then.

Religion and national identity are separate, we wish to retain the secular aspects of our ancient heritage such as language (Urdu is a Sanskritic language, and we could do with reclaiming classical Sanskrit as well) yet we reject the pagan religious aspects. Like I said earlier the Greeks are still Greek despite converting to Christianity. Prophet Muhammed PBUH was still an Arab despite rejecting the Paganism of his people.

Indians can’t seem to comprehend that nationality and religion are separate. Like I said earlier by your logic if an Indian starts worshipping Zeus (an ancient greek god) they suddenly become more Greek than Greeks because the latter are Christian…

You Indians need to get this “Ancient Pan-Indian” BullS out of your heads, present day states of Pakistan and India didn’t exist back then… Different empires ruled South-Asia at different periods in history but that doesn’t mean they were the same as present day India… Names like Pak or India are irreleveant, what falls in our land is our ruins, what falls in your land is your ruins (even if the basis for your culture/civlisation came from presentday Pakistan).

Hypothetically speaking if English becomes the official language of the EU and Spaniards all start speaking English does that mean South/Central Americans who adopted Spanish from the Spaniards can claim Spanish heriatge as their own? No, the Spanish will undoubtly become nationalityless because ones language determines their nationality but the South/Central Americans will still remain identityless slaves who adopted some elses language. Not to say that we intend on abandoning our language(s) for the sole use of Dravidians or anything because religion does not determine nationality whereas language does.

You Indian/Ganga ppl are so brainwashed with Hindutva propaganda that you can’t see beyond the false glitter/glamour your Pundits have filled your heads with.

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Re: split discussion regarding history - pakistan and india

vedic religion came from you???:rotfl:…prove it. back it. Besides, this argument was started by some one who wanted to prove his difference from neighbours. not the other way round. and good that you are surviving on the tukrays thrown by arabs :rotfl:

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Re: split discussion regarding history - pakistan and india

how about we keep the discussion a little civilized. Points can be made without low blows folks.

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Re: split discussion regarding history - pakistan and india

Why don’t you try and prove otherwise? Let me guess according to some unwashed Dravidian Sadhu/Pundit Aryans originate in India.. Yeah righttttt.. :omg: :hehe:

As for Arabs, we are there equals not living of their tukrrey, our religion is not casteist or racist, it is universal and infact it condemns the Arabs in many places sooo…

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Re: An educational thread on the differences between Pakistanis and neighbouring populi

Muslims have created no mess, wherever you go in the world Muslims are the victims and unlike certain cowardly religions we are hot-blooded honourable people, we Muslims.. We can't sit their with bangles in our hands and let people shaft us, I know Muslims do many bad things like target innocent civilians when they're blinded with frustration/anger/helplesness and that's wrong but it's all the result of what others are doing to us...

Afghanistan is a warfield because of Ruskies and Americans... Middle East is in the state it is because the British divided it into nation states (divide and rule), our Caliphate in Turkey was toppled by the British, Americans stole Arab/Muslim land and gave it to foreign Jews who treat the natives as second-class citizens, Americans created and supported puppets like Saddam Hussein to kill and destroy his own people and they're the result of the Gulf War... In Kashmir our people are being slaughtered, raped and persecuted by the terrorist state of India....

Look at what the Russians did to our people!! I've heard stories from older brothers belonging to Turkic races and what they had to go through at the hands of Ruskies, for example if Ruskeis saw a light/movement in a Muslim house at Suhoor (pre-dawn) time during Ramadan (we have a pre-dawn breakfast when we fast) they would burn it to the ground and martyr all those insides including women and children..

Or look at Eastern Europe and the way Bosnians were treated by Christians, these Bosnians were hardly Mullah's, infact they were a lot like certain Indian Muslims, intermarrying with Christians the way Indian Muslims marry Hindus but that didn't save them, their Christian neighbours/family tried to eradicate/ethnically-cleanse them.. I guess The wrath of God can come in any shape or form to set you straight again.

If we Muslims were cruel and unjust we could have converted India easier than the Christians changed Spain. The way we are today is the result of what's been done to our community all over the world and is still happening to us..