Some questions

Society Religion & Philosophy
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  1. I have made my intentions already clear about this.
  2. Awlia-karam are peer. Since a murshid has to be someone alive to take bait' ,he is usually a blood line of awlia-karam and generates his powers from the powers given to Aulia-Karam through ALLAH. Is bloodline important or worth it? Read translation of darud sharif.
  3. This is very clear from my side also.
  4. Read about Aulia-Karam and you will get to know, instead of assuming, so now go and read. 5.I gave you an example stating it doesnt really happen and i said myself that ALLAH doesnt choose a weak person for that which is evident from the history of Aulia-Karam again.
  5. This has conecpt of roohaniat and is related to point no.2 again. If a person in life(alive) is dear to ALLAH due to its pious actions, and we believe that the soul(rooh) is alive, then why will he not be still be dear and near to ALLAH after its death.

If you see the History of Islam and deeply come across the life of Huzoor-e-Kareem ( Sal-lal-lahu alaihi wa sallam ) and all the awliyas and Saleheens you see all people use to come with problems, difficulties etc and they use either take duas or get their problems solved from these great personalities. Even After the Wisal of these great islamic personalities allah subhaanahu thaalah descends rahmath on in their places and that is why duas get accepted very soon in such sacred places where these sacred personalities rest. Even in Qayamah there will be shafaath by these great personalities ( Saleheens ) of Islam.

So people who reject taking help here on this earth will have no face to take help of anbiyas or awliyas on the day of Qayamat because it is mentioned in Sahih Hadith Bukhari Shareef anbiyas , Awliyas ( Saleheens ) will do shafaat on the day of Qayamat and there will be no help from Allah Subhaanahu thaalah because it will be state of nafsi nafsi and only anbiyas and awliyas will do shafaat of ummahs or ummatis on the judgement day . Thus asking help is permissible here on the earth and on the arsh
(Mentioned about shafaat From all ahadith e mubaraks of all the great imams of Hadiths Shareef )

" Allah subhaanahu thaalah have used on 1% of Rahmath and 99% Rahmath is reversed for Awliyas - Friends of Allah" ( Sahih Bukhari Shareef )

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Thank you.. but no thanks...
In above episode, you're giving more importance to Awlia-e-karam than your direct connection and actions towards ALLAH SWT.
I do not wish to take anyone's help in this world. I have my respects to your beliefs. Please make dua for me that I be of guided ones :)

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Thank you so much for taking your time and providing me with the versus. None of the versus you quoted has direct relation to what you're saying. You're completely asking to remove Allah SWT out of the equation and ask Awlia for help. Or may be I'm not understanding your point of view. You see when versus are quoted out of the contexts, meanings change. Mulah-e-za farmaeye....

In Koran its said,

"Your helpers are Almighty Allah and His Rasool and those Muslims who perform Salaah and give alms and make Ruku" (5:55,Koran)

(53) O ye who believe! if any from among you turn back from his Faith, soon will Allah produce a people whom He will love as they will love Him,― lowly with the Believers, mighty against the rejecters, fighting in the Way of Allah, and never afraid of the reproaches of such as find fault. That is the Grace of Allah, which He will bestow on whom He pleaseth: and Allah encompasseth all and He knoweth all things. (54) Your (real) friends are (no less than) Allah, His Messenger, and the Believers, those who establish regular prayers and pay charity, and they bow down humbly (in worship). (55) As to those who turn (for friendship) to Allah, His Messenger, and the Believers― it is the party of Allah that must certainly triumph.

Holy Quran says (summary relating to Sahaba Karam and Aulia-Karam etc is):

"Verily, ALLAH helps them and Jibril and Saaleh Mumineen and then angels are helpers". ( Surah Al-Tehreem: ayat 4)

"(3) If ye two turn in repentance to Him, your hearts are indeed so inclined; but if ye back up each other against him, truly Allah is his Protector, and Gabriel, and (every) righteous one among those who believe― and furthermore, the angels― will back (him) up."

The Holy Prophet (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) has stated, "There are certain of Allah's servants that have been set aside to fulfil the necessities of the people. People will call to them in their times of need. They are protected from the punishment of Almighty Allah". (Jame Saghir)

ALLAH says about his servants (Aulia-Karam) in surah Al-Kahf: (18:28)

"Stay tenaciously in the companionship of those who remember their Lord morning and evening, ardently seeking His pleasure, (keen on the glimpse of His sight and eagerly aspiring to glance at His radiant Countenance). Your (affectionate and caring) looks must not but focus them. Do you seek the charisma of the worldly life (shifting your attention away from these self-denying devotees)? And (also) do not follow him whose heart We have made neglectful of Our remembrance and who follows but the urge of his (ill-commanding self) and his case has exceeded all bounds. "

Companionship of pious people is a great thing. Asking/learning/gathering knowledge from them, is the most amazing thing you can have. This verse does not indicate anywhere, to ask a "FRIEND" for help

"He whom Allah, guides is rightly guided; but he whom Allah leaves to stray,- for him wilt thou find no protector (murshid) to lead him to the Right Way". (Quran 18:17)

I have mentioned these before also :

Hazrat Saad Bin Abe Waqas (r.a.) has narrated that, Once Prophet Mohammed (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) said that

"Allah (GOD) alleviates the nations but through His devotees friends".

Sure, where's the part where Allah says Awlia will help you? and can provide for you?

In this Hadith which is narrated by Hazrat Saad Bin Abe Waqas (r.a.), Prophet Mohammed (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) has defined that Allah helps the nation as a sum or individually only because of His friends which are Aulia Akram (Saints).

Hazrat Eabad (r.a.) has narrated that once Prophet Mohammed (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) said that

" In MY (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) nation there are forty Abdals (devotees) because of whom the system of the world exists. Cause of them rainfalls and due to them you are helped."

Hazrat Annas (r.a.) narrates that once Prophet Mohammed (sallal laahu alaihi wasallam) said that
"This world will not remain vacant from forty Abdals (devotees). Those who will be from the grandsons and nation of Hazrat Abraham (a.s.) and due to them you will be helped."

Then there are others also :

‘Allama Sa’eedi and ‘Allama ‘Abd al-Hakim Sharf Qadri write:

“It is better that help is sought directly from Allah, most High, and through the waseela of the anbiya or awliya. If an individual seeks help from the anbiya or awliya by means of achieving help from Allah, most High, the person is not committing kufr.”

[Sharh Muslim, ‘Allama Sa’idi, Nidaa-e-Ya Muhammad, page 30 by ‘Allama Sharf Qadri]

Shaykh al-‘Alawi al-Maliki, the mufti of Makka writes:

“When we ask help from the anbiya and awliya, as a means, it is through their supplication (du’a) that they help us. Take for example the Day of Judgment when the umma will benefit from our Prophet, (May Allah bless him and grant him peace). This is called asking for help through the anbiya and awliya and likewise to ask them to make du'a for us can be called help or istishfah or tawasul.

Example is not in correlation to this world. Right now, they're DEAD and we're alive. On the day of judgment, we all will be resurrected from DEAD.
[Ziyarat of the Grave, page 213, by the mufti of Makka, ‘Allama Shaykh Muhammad al-‘Alawi al-Maliki al-Makki]

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Re: Some questions

Oi Sarge I requested you to keep the peer mureed business out of this thread. Its hard to keep track of the actual stuff here. Here I am struggling with the understand the very basics, and what I am being told is to beg to someone like me who thinks he is better than me to get me through the whole judgement process. I am not sure if our Pakistani safarish culture will work up there. I don't know if one of your peers can deliver me straight to the heaven like DHL, despite my own character and actions, and honestly I am least interested in this mumba jumba. No disrespect intended brother but this really makes my patience run thin. Consider it a humble request, please create another thread for your murshids.

Mods can you please pick out the peer murshid bits and split it into another thread?

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Living upto your nick man...
"Ik tay mein sohna, uttoun meray nain nasheelay..
Ban firearms, legalize marijuana"

:D :D :D

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You cant even understand simple and straightforward ayats and Hadith so i recommend ,Go and discuss the tafseer with someone who recites Quran regulary and knows its tafseer well, like maybe a molvi, I hope he explains it to you.

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It started with replying ur question.But ,Ok Jaanwar, Im stopping here in your thread.

Chaiholics
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That was really a "Magic 8 Ball" answer :)... Liked its simplicity and logic. I'm sure "Jaanwar" would have the similar comments.

Share the pic of your cell phone's Home screen
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No trust me I didn’t roll my eyes :hehe: I am trying to collect every bit of info that adds sense and logic to the concepts I am exploring.

Your comments are really helpful and logical. JazakAllah for that. Really really appreciated.

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like sadzz said we mere humans aren’t capable of answering these questions … at least not yet.

Now, who likes that kind of UNCERTAINTY? Uncertainty about the most basic and important questions in life … i.e where we came from and the purpose of our lives? No one! I mean with the increase in the levels of consciousness and curiosity that we humans have over the time … we had to come up with answers long ago … and we did.

We created God in our own image. Associated with him all the goodness and greatness and most of the positive attributes of our own (only made them biggest and largest in HIM). And to keep ourselves and masses “in check” we also associated with him the ultimate pain/negative things (azaab, dozakh, duniyaavi aafaat etc.) … and again made them biggest/largest/ultimate. This all pretty much explained most of the things that we didn’t have control over … so the whole thing is pretty much safe, right? sweet!.

with the religious scriptures “words of God” there is this big dilemma. well, how do we know it’s the words of God? because it says so in it. but how do we know it’s right? because it’s the word of God. How do we know? because It says so in the book. how do we know the book can’t be wrong? because they are God’s words and he said this book is right. he said that where? in the book.

For me personally … i do believe in a supreme power … name it whatever you want. But I don’t believe in any God that does not have any more emotional control than me “do as I say or you will be punished”… or … I didn’t need you mere humans but I created you anyway and I know you inside out but I still want to know whether you’re worthy of my ultimate blessings (a place in Jannat … wait there is one more level up… Jannat-ul-firdaus … for extra special ones of you) so, here is a TEST anyway. Remember you have all the answers to this test in a book that I gave you. I knew from the “beginning” that most of you wouldn’t do well in the test so I have this ultimate pain ready for you in Jahannam. (you see all the negative human attributes we associate with God and want to carry in with us in hereafter? :hmmm: )

you are damned (miserable) during the test understanding it and miserable after too?

Jaanwar, I know I’ve gone too far with this. you only asked some simple questions. and my answer is that there are no answers. you have to come up with your own answers unless you want to fit in with the “masses of your own kind”…

ok .. ok … I stop here

Don’t give me “that was helpful and appreciated” reply. I know it’s nothing of the sort. :slight_smile:

PEACE :dhimpak:

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Re: Some questions

Intox you are a douche :hehe: I have been thinking along the same lines. I do believe, however, that the answers are there. Its just a matter of finding what makes sense to you. I don’t believe in a concept blindly, unless I see logic and sense in it. I am still struggling to understand the whole business of creation, of testing and judgement. Some of the replies here have really helped, setting the direction straight. I am on a mission, and I will find the answers.

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Re: Some questions

Tox - here's a bit on the emotional control part. Psyah said it beautifully. What makes sense to me is, we try to fit God into our frame of limited understanding. We can associate our emotions with him, but not our limitations. He is the supreme being, he is not subject to our emotional limitations and bias. I do believe the existence of a supreme power, like you do. And I am struggling to understand the sense and logic of the ideas surrounding creation, our existence and judgement, perhaps like you are. There are things that make sense and support each other, the facts, and things that dont hold much sattu. I'm on it.

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Re: Some questions

^ Peace Jaanwar

There are in fact 2 things that I use to try to "understand" and it gives me great comfort to use this method.

1) Learn the Attributes of Allah (Nothing can share in them except that Allah (SWT) Himself has allowed to be shared as an allegory for our comparison, also never view any one Attribute in isolation to another, because He is One, all The Attributes are prevalent in the way and manner that should be taken by us on how He has revealed them to us)

2) Learn the account of the Creation and read the descriptions of the Salaf in this regard, bouncing it back against those Attributes to see that they are in harmony with what is taught to us. By harmony I do not mean "proof" rather I mean you will find no contradiction. In other words you will see that there are many plausible explanations but only a few of them fit nicely with each other.

Therefore the concept of God becoming man is a false concept because it caused more than a logical problem of numbers it creates a whole array of other problems regarding the nature of Jesus (AS).

I didn't realise until very recently that there are discourses by many scholars regarding the matters of theology in Islam. Some people dismiss this but they do so without basis. There is a way to lead from one matter to another using certain tools of reasoning however the very tools are used erroneously by those who say that we are not supposed to use them. Every basic 'aqeedah was in fact created on the back of these tools of reasoning.

If you want to grasp something of the state of 'awareness' and 'light' to illumine your soul with the understanding of Islam then I recommend the "Book of Illumination" by Ibn Ata Ullah Al-Iskandari translated by Scott Kugle, however, it is a poor translation and in some parts he has used derogatory words. I believe at some point a Muslim translation shall be released soon. Or better still find a scholar who teaches it from the Arabic.

Remember always that just like where our bodies can't go our thoughts can, in the same way, our reason does not penetrate where our souls can go. The constructs and rules we use to explain our physical environment are not dissimilar to the constructs we should use to reconcile the metaphysical environment. I know you want to avoid jargon ... but in short what I am trying to get at is the difference between a 'legal contract' from a 'poem' ... the words of poetry are there for you to search and to create emotion and a spiritual response the same of which could otherwise not be achieved. Try converting Surah Fatihah to assume a literal meaning as in contracts and you will either lessen the meaning or lessen the impact of it or both.

The path of the illumination should hopefully teach you how to walk The Straight Path with your feelings on high sensitivity.

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Remember where logic ends faith starts. Only faith provides solace to me personally.
There are many many mysteries in this universe , which , logic , science , reasoning cannot explain.

I agree with Dr. Zakir Naik. When he says:
"
There are more than a thousand verses in the Glorious Qur’an, containing scientific facts (refer my book “Qur’an and Modern Science-Compatible or Incompatible?”). Many facts mentioned in the Qur’an have been discovered in the last few centuries. But science has not advanced to a level where it can confirm every statement of the Qur’an.
Suppose 80% of all that is mentioned in the Qur’an has been proved 100% correct. About the remaining 20%, science makes no categorical statement, since it has not advanced to a level, where it can either prove or disprove these statements. With the limited knowledge that we have, we cannot say for sure whether even a single percentage or a single verse of the Qur’an from this 20% portion is wrong. Thus when 80% of the Qur’an is 100% correct and the remaining 20% is not disproved, logic says that even the 20% portion is correct. The existence of the hereafter, which is mentioned in the Qur’an, falls in the 20% ambiguous portion which my logic says is correct."

question time.....
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Re: Some questions

More about how I see it all.
I am not missing out on believing in afterlife or judgment day or this life being a test.
Once I believe in Allah then I believe in Quran too. Why I believe in Quran ?
I gave you one reason.
The other reason is Gary Miller’s book “Amazing Quran”.
Still another reason is that many many great scholars and philosophers of Islam were a lot more smarter than I am , I am sure that they explored all these questions and many more which I cannot think of but they still believed in Quran and its teaching then I do not see any reason not to believe in it. I am in no way at the point of self actualization as they were. They are my role models.
Not getting answer to those questions does not leave any void in my life and lifestyle. But believing in Allah and try to be Allah’s obedient servant makes my life fulfilling and nurture my soul.

So these are some of the ways I satisfy my curiosity and make effort to stay on the right path .

Timepass - Eternity
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I totally agree with Pysah. Once one can understand the attributes of Allah subhantallah, the Creation and how we came about, alongside realising that Allah subhantallah cannot be confined, then you will begin to find some satisfactory answers.

As you delve more into this area, you will find that even language poses barries. One cannot truly express the greatness of Allah. We can but attempt to but it would not really do justice to the excellence of Allah. For example, Allah is trascendent (not limited by time or space), omniscient (all-knowing), omipotent (all-powerful), omnipresent (all around us/is everywhere) and incorporeal (without the limits of a physical body). This theological language cannot be used for us mere mortals. Once I understood this and Creation, I have felt content with my faith, in that, by understanding the difference between the nature of man and the nature of God, there was a realisation that one cant really question God's motives as one would question a human's motive.

The flawed nature of man vs. the flawless Creator.

Mortality of man vs. the Immortality of God

I am still trying to find some literature for you with regards to this, so please do bear with me. I have read a lot of work by the great thinkers such as Descartes, Kant, Plato, Swinburne- they give some excellent opinions on what they think the nature of God is and the idea of why I am here/purpose of life. I don't think it hurts to see what others think on this topic.

question time.....
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Re: Some questions

I came across this a while ago. Some of it makes interesting reading. Have a look if you so wish.

God Created The Universe With The … - Google Books

Expensive
99

Do you think people who follow different path/faith/religion (Peeri/Mureedi one example from this thread, or worshiping idols etc.) don’t see any logic/sense in what they believe and do?

I think you answered that here yourself and that’s what everything boils down to.

:khumar:

People go for different things (seemingly opposite) using rationality and logic as their reasons. And People also go for different things using the faith card … Some one is messing around with us I tell you :hehe:

Cool. That’s what I meant when I said “you need to come up with your own answers”. :k:

Now you are making me confused. How does what you quoted from psyah’s post tell us anything about the God?. All I see is that someone is beautifully poeticising how they believe God is or should be like. I have read and come across hundreds, if not thousands of such description of God from different religions. Now I can buy into those exact thoughts and make them parts of my beliefs but that does not mean those beliefs are right (that was your question in your original post, right?). That just means that those beliefs are serving me in a certain way i want them to serve me (peace of mind, to fill the void, certainty of being on the “right path”, following my forefathers, giving into my love/fear/obligation, for the sake of sanity, following the familiar path, just a good enough answer, to feel content, to fit in and so on).

My point is that if you are looking for beliefs-surgery because your current beliefs aren’t serving you the way you want them then you will definitely find something in this thread because all the poetic stuff is so beautiful and tempting and I am sure you will fall for something. But if your intention is to find the right answers :hmmm: then idk, because people will give you “their right answers”.

Who is right? who is wrong? who is judging the right and wrong? idk!

sub pha’nsay hue hein meray dost :slight_smile: … her banda sahi hai and at the same time her banda ghalat hai :wink: . conscious level per jo kuchh nazar aata hai sub-conscious ki duniya us se bohat mukhtalif hai … and that’s where most of the stuff happens … (btw, that’s my right answer … you don’t have to buy into that :hehe: ).

Am I successful in f***ing with your mind so far?
yes?
good!! :dixsi:

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howdy!! :slight_smile:

Some sub-branches of science like metaphysics, quantum physics, alternative medicine, healing science, researches into mind body links and some pure scientific theories have been using that theological language for us “mere mortals” for quite some time now.

All those traits you are associating with God (trascendent, omniscient, omipotent, omnipresent and incorporeal) can be explained with one theory “The Holographic Universe”.

Should not be hard to digest.

For example, theology tells us that God (Allah) is Noor and he made everything including us in his own image (with Noor) and that he was not created by anyone and is not the father/son of anyone.

Science gives us almost the same definition of energy … that every thing is made of energy. energy cannot be created or destroyed. It only comes into form, through form and out of form.

if we come to conclusion that Noor and energy is the same thing then being a part of it we also need to look into what else science is telling us about energy (ourselves).

hmmmm :hmmm:
Have some more stuff to say … but nothing that important …

will be back (or should i not? :stuck_out_tongue: )