Some questions

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: Some questions

Tox - first of all, screw you man :hehe: Lalay whatever you are saying, I have a quite similar stream of thinking. You are right about one thing, there are perhaps no absolute answers, you accept whatever makes sense to you, and whatever gives you peace of mind. I think that is what I am looking for, peace of mind. Hence while I am seeking answers in logic, I don’t rule out the spiritual aspect. I do believe in the supreme power, some supreme power that is maintaining the order of things, that is running the show. However, more than poetic descriptions of that authority, its the disparity and disagreement between the traits associated with that authority that confuse me. Spiritually, yes it gives me a certain degree of satisfaction in believing that perhaps I am trying to fit that supreme authority into a human figure, I am trying to find human attributes in that authority which is most likely the limitation of my thinking and understanding.

The disparity and disagreement I am talking about is - on one hand we say that God knows everything - from the beginning till the end, he cannot make a mistake, everything about him is flawless, he is all knowing, he knows everything from the creation till the end. Then our history of creation tells us that he created Adam, before him he created the angels. Then Shaitan refused to bow and he was damned. Then Adam messed up by eating the apple. Then God created earth and kicked Adam out of heavens and sent him to earth. Okay if he is all knowing, then why the error of judgement? Was shaitan’s defiance a surprise? Did he not know that Adam will eat the forbidden fruit? Was kicking him out of heavens his plan or reaction? If it was a plan, then why damn the poor shaitan? All he did was what he was created to do. Was God disappointed in shaitan and Adam? If he knows from day 1 who would be sent to hell, why create this whole episode of life on earth?

Or is it that he did make an error of judgement, and then shaitan’s damnation and kicking Adam out of the heavens was a reaction? In which case, God getting angry at us makes sense, because he expects us to act good, and then we don’t. If he is all knowing, he should already know what we will do and there should be no surprises for him. Which should make the whole life on earth business very dull and boring. And the concept of free will doesn’t make much sense then. That would be like okay I have given you the freedom of choice, but I already know what you will decide, and I know you will decide the wrong thing, and I know I will punish you for that.

So does he make mistakes? Does he not know everything, and which is why he is keeping a record of everything and then one day he will judge us on the basis of how we acted, and at that point the decision will be made whether we burn in hell or enjoy in heaven. If he is keeping the record for us, does he really need to justify himself or his decisions to us?

I am having trouble understanding the concept of creation, life and judgement and linking it with the attributes that we associate with Allah. The whole episode of creation just doesn’t seem to fit in well with the attributes of absolute knowledge and zero error.

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Re: Some questions

Tox, I have been sick and incredibly busy, so really couldn’t look into the concepts and ideas we are discussing here. Been out of touch with it, so I don’t know if what I just wrote above makes sense or its me being stupid :hehe: I will keep working on it, and feel free to share your own ideas mate.

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Re: Some questions

The way I understand it is that we were all made for one purpose and that is to please and worship Allah. That includes praying, fasting, being honest, being good to people, being good to our parents, being a good spouse and parent, being modest, giving charity, and basically just doing what we've been told to do.

That is our purpose in life...to worship Allah. And that is why we're here. Why Allah would want that from us....I don't know!

Also regarding free will and destiny, it's my understanding that some things are under our free will and some things have already been destined for us. So there are times when we have a choice and what we choose is under our free will but what eventually happens as a result of that choice is pre-destined....you know what I am saying?

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Intoxicated,

When I said 'us mere mortals', I meant that it is not language which can be used on a daily basis for humans. I can see from the scientific persepective but one would not say in conversation 'Bob/Glenda is transcendent'. The qualities of such vocab are more suited to scientific phenomena or God.

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When we limit ourselves to a physical being (a body of meat and bones) we have trouble accepting that we can be transcendent. You see we don't face any problem associating those traits to God because we don't limit him in a physical body. And we don't use that language for each other in conversations and on daily basis may be because we have not yet evolved to that level spiritually or because we don't focus that much on our immortal spirit. May be just like once we believed that the earth was flat and then some one told us that it was round and drew pictures and then someone took real pictures of it from space and proved it. May be we are not at the pictures (drawing/taking) point on this yet.

some more thoughts ....

When we believe something with conviction it becomes part of our identity and we humans have this unconscious thing to vigorously protect and defend our identity against anything that remotely challenges it. Same thing with our religious beliefs (e.g we see this regularly in life1, Religion, PA, WA ... someone says something that's remotely challenging to a religious belief of other person ..... instead of ignoring it or giving the person benefit of a doubt they have to first fight a world war over it involving so many other users and mods and only then it's "each to their own" ending ). you can find positives and negatives in any thing in any situation.

And this beliefs and faith business is very complex and full of so many paradoxes, man. I know from personal transformation that spirituality (religion?!) is a very personal matter and no one else can tell you what you should or should not believe in this journey of yours. (you think there will be mayhem in this world that way? don't worry, universal forces will take care of that)

There are so many levels to talk about any given subject. There's so much happening in this Universe. Evolution is an ongoing process (I understand if someone doesn't believe in evolution or says this is debatable). Science is uncovering so much, yet with every step forward there is so much more to discover that it feels like we know less than we knew before. Our old beliefs are being challenged at every step. Some of us are quick to adapt and some hold onto the old ones until push comes to shove.

Having said all that i am in no way judging anyone for any beliefs they have because that's not my position. I have a healthy respect for people of all faiths and I actually envy those happy and peaceful souls who don't question anything (or much) of their faith, yet they give it most of the credit for all their accomplishments and successes. I wish I could be like that.

oh, and I realize I'm not that coherent (living up to my nick? :p ) ..... so if anything just ask or ignore.

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naah, you are on topic and making perfect sense. just giving other jaanwars bad name by asking such questions. that’s all! Oo

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Listen to this, have some lassi or falooda and go to sleep.
After waking up if you still have those questions .. Repeat ^ :hehe:

Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

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Re: Some questions

Something made me look this thread up again.

Any more thoughts, anyone!

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Re: Some questions

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Re: Some questions

Please Define Murshid ?