^ is this hadith about his companions or about his followers (ummati)????
e.g. those who call themselves followers of Muhammad (saw) but do shirk with Allah, and do things which r opposite of his sunnah....
Brother go and read the highlighted part of the hadith
*Sahih Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 76, Number 585: *
Narrated Abu Hazim from Sahl bin Sa'd:
The Prophet said, "I am your predecessor (forerunner) at the Lake-Fount, and whoever will pass by there, he will drink from it and whoever will drink from it, he will never be thirsty. There will come to me some people whom I will recognize, and they will recognize me, but a barrier will be placed between me and them." Abu Hazim added: An-Nu'man bin Abi 'Aiyash, on hearing me, said. "Did you hear this from Sahl?" I said, "Yes." He said, " I bear witness that I heard Abu Said Al-Khudri saying the same, adding that the Prophet said: 'I will say: They are of me (i.e. my followers). It will be said, 'You do not know what they innovated (new things) in the religion after you left'. I will say, 'Far removed, far removed (from mercy), those who changed (their religion) after me." Abu Huraira narrated that the Prophet said, "On the Day of Resurrection a group of companions will come to me, but will be driven away from the Lake-Fount, and I will say, 'O Lord (those are) my companions!' It will be said, 'You have no knowledge as to what they innovated after you left; they turned apostate as renegades (reverted from Islam)."I don't want to point fingures anybody but I woud point out a narration in the same book Sahibh Bukhari where a companion praises his innovation.....
*Volume 3, Book 32, Number 227: *
Narrated Abu Huraira: Allah's Apostle said, "Whoever prayed at night the whole month of Ramadan out of sincere Faith and hoping for a reward from Allah, then all his previous sins will be forgiven." Ibn Shihab (a sub-narrator) said, "Allah's Apostle died and the people continued observing that (i.e. Nawafil offered individually, not in congregation), and it remained as it was during the Caliphate of Abu Bakr and in the early days of 'Umar's Caliphate." 'Abdur Rahman bin 'Abdul Qari said, "I went out in the company of 'Umar bin Al-Khattab one night in Ramadan to the mosque and found the people praying in different groups. A man praying alone or a man praying with a little group behind him. So, 'Umar said, 'In my opinion I would better collect these (people) under the leadership of one Qari (Reciter) (i.e. let them pray in congregation!)'. So, he made up his mind to congregate them behind Ubai bin Ka'b. Then on another night I went again in his company and the people were praying behind their reciter. On that, 'Umar remarked, 'What an excellent Bid'a (i.e. innovation in religion) this is; but the prayer which they do not perform, but sleep at its time is better than the one they are offering.' He meant the prayer in the last part of the night. (In those days) people used to pray in the early part of the night."
Dude I have no idea where you get that from… All I was trying to point out Ahleybait have always been there to defend islam… Bibi Fatima stood against Abu Bakr to unveil and show some companions after the death of Prophet P.B.U.H. some companions went far enough to not only just leave his funeral for Khilfat but they also offended her and Prophet P.B.U.H… similarly when khilafat got to a point where anybody who becomes khaleefa was called ameer ul momineen Imam Hussain stood up against Yazeed and sacrificed his family in the way of Allah and what he did with the grand daoughter of Prophet P.B.U.H. opened everyone eyes … eventhough his father also came agianst Imam Ali A.S and his family and yet people regarded him as Ameer ul Momineen… Imam Jaffar Sadiq was the teacher of Imam Malik and Hanfia.. Imam Mahdi who everyone is waiting for is from ahleybait…
I don’t know where does Pakistani and Indians came into it
^ scenario: boss tells his coordinate to do some work, who is somewhat frank with him and tells him "yaar kia mazaaq kar rahay ho".... the boss replies "haan bhai ,mazaq kar raha hoon, ab uttho kaam karo"....
is the boss just joking????
said Ali bin Abu Talib (ra) "i debated with an aalim and i overcame him... i debated with a jaahil and he defeated me"....
u enjoy with these useless posts now cuz they r nothing but silly remarks that have been answered by muslim scholars throughout the history but seems some ppl close their ears and minds and want to keep repeating the same stuff like parrots....
[quote]
It isn't me but history that has made that allegation. C'mon bhai, all respect aside, if someone is wrong we should admit it. The point is that even if they were not active in Ali's [raz] army, he didn't make an active effort to capture them.
[/quote]
if thats your POV t....then Ali shud be accused of uthman's murder , if he didnt actively pursue them
but no scholar of any repute has made that accusation
[quote]
The point is that Umar [raz] and even Ali [raz] were killed by non-muslims
[/quote]
no Ali[as] was killed by a muslim
[quote]
and though it doesn't make their deaths less than Usman [raz] but politically, it was a suicide since MUSLIMS made the Khilafah and it set a bad example of how to deal in case of conflicts
[/quote]
khalifa is made based on certain principles which if not followed can lead to his impeachment and removal from office , this is the principle by which umar[ra] ruled
[quote]
That is a very blanket statement to make about women but MAYBE you are right about her being the wife of the Prophet and all.
[/quote]
it is in the Quran meray bhai
[quote]
That is such a dumb point that I will not even try to talk about it. Going by this argument, do you mean to say that Hassan and Hussain [raz] fought yazeed because of tribal rivalry NOT because of moral and ethical values?
[/quote]
[/quote]
firstly daughter of abu bakr[ra] rose up not to reform the ummah or remove Bidah like husssain [as] did against yazid] but to avenge uthman .....no contemporary of Ali[as] ever accused him of introducing Bidah in religion so you cannot compare her revolt to that of Husssain[as]
Dude I have no idea where you get that from...** All I was trying to point out Ahleybait have always been there to defend islam**...... Bibi Fatima stood against Abu Bakr to unveil and show some companions after the death of Prophet P.B.U.H. some companions went far enough to not only just leave his funeral for Khilfat but they also offended her and Prophet P.B.U.H... similarly when khilafat got to a point where anybody who becomes khaleefa was called ameer ul momineen Imam Hussain stood up against Yazeed and sacrificed his family in the way of Allah and what he did with the grand daoughter of Prophet P.B.U.H. opened everyone eyes ... eventhough his father also came agianst Imam Ali A.S and his family and yet people regarded him as Ameer ul Momineen... Imam Jaffar Sadiq was the teacher of Imam Malik and Hanfia.. Imam Mahdi who everyone is waiting for is from ahleybait....
I don't know where does Pakistani and Indians came into it
so what about zubair b awaam [ra] who defended the prophet with such valor in uhad ? or sahl b huneyf [ra] who shot so many arrows in his defence ? or abu dujana [ra] who took arrows on his back? ...they were all munafiqs?
said Ali bin Abu Talib (ra) "i debated with an aalim and i overcame him... i debated with a jaahil and he defeated me"....
Any references......
^
u enjoy with these useless posts now cuz they r nothing but silly remarks that have been answered by muslim scholars throughout the history but seems some ppl close their ears and minds and want to keep repeating the same stuff like parrots....
Shows your ignorance ... or should I say excuses to ignore the truth.. the fact that you don't wanna accept the truth... you leave it to scholars....
Well lets see what are the narrations in Sahih Bukhari by Bibi Aisha
al-Bukhari narrated on the authority of
Aisha that:
… Fatimah became angry with Abu Bakr and kept away from him, and did
not talk to him till she died. She remained alive for six months after
the death of the Prophet. When she died, her husband 'Ali, buried her
at night without informing Abu Bakr and he said the funeral prayer by
himself.
So now you are going to blame the narrations of Sahih Bukhari to be shia endeavor and yet you don’t want to believe in it… In other words you gonna deny whats in your authentic books… just because you have a hard time digesting the truth…??? Your response serves as a big example of what I was trying to mention in my first few post where I debated on Quran and sunnah or Quran and Ahleybait… where quran testified islam was perfect at the time of Prophet and sunnah was compiled years after Prophet P.B.U.H… and people pick and choose what meets their interest as you just did… ignored a narration from your own authentic book which was narrated by no other than Bibi Ayesha and blamed it to endeavor shia thoughts eventhough its your authentic book
Another argument which contradicts the hadith I mentioned from Sahih Bukhari above… I am guessing is it time to revise the list of authentic sunnah books with the books you mentioned above???
Talking about Shairah.. I would appreciate if you could answer the following questions I have asked to a fellow guppie earlier:
Do you believe every hadith that Prophet Mohammad P.B.U.H. gives is as per Allah SWT will?
Do you believe if Prophet P.B.U.H. ever give a hadith which would imply that any one who angered Bibi Fatima Zehra S.A. angered Habib-e-Khuda..Sardar-e-Ambiya… if Bibi Fatma Zehra S.A nauzubillah had the tendency to get anger on people for nauzubillah incorrect reasons…
Could the maslehat behind Prophet P.B.U.H. pointing out his ummah that whoever made Bibi Fatima Zehra S.A would indirectly made him angry… has a lesson for us to know who is righteous and who hurted Prophet P.B.U.H.
Keeping Prophet P.B.U.H. would Allah SWT reveal the following ayat in quran when Bibi nauzbillah would had tendency of getting angry for wrong reasons
[Shakir 42:23] That is of which Allah gives the good news to His servants, (to) those who believe and do good deeds. Say: I do not ask of you any reward for it but love for my near relatives; and whoever earns good, We give him more of good therein; surely Allah is Forgiving, Grateful.
Would quran testify the purity of Ahleybait when nauzubillah the mother of leaders of heaven have the tendency of getting angry on people and indirectly hurting prophet P.B.U.H. for wrong reasons???
And stay quietly in your houses, and make not a dazzling display, like that of the former Times of Ignorance; and establish regular Prayer, and give regular Charity; and obey Allah and His Messenger. And Allah only wishes to remove all abomination from you, ye members of the Family, and to make you pure and spotless.[33:33]
Buddy there are so many questions I have asked some other guppies… and I am still waiting on the replies… I am suprised How you failed to notice those… anywayzz. I hope the above would answer your query…
May Allah SWT help us all follow the right path… Ameen
lol another bunch of excuses just cause some one is having hard time swollowing the truth.... Even Bibi Ayesha could make out... Quran testifies that Alalh SWT want to make ahleybait pure... you just keep coming up with excuses just trying to go denial by coming up wiht baseless excuses now you are doubting Bibi Ayesha interpretation when facts are for your own books and yet quran talks about Prophet inheritance and yet you doubt Abu Bakr was right and nauzubillah Prophet's beloved daughter the mother of leader of heavens was wrong the lady for whom Prophet P.B.U.H said that whoever hurts her hurted Prophet. I went as far as quoting stuff from not shia but your own authentic sunni books I have had sunni friends who told me after Quran Bhukari.. is the most authentic book they believe and yet you wanna play ignorant so be so
Peace Texan_Dude
I was thinking of not responding to your mobile goal-'posts' but after reading that you are expecting a response I will please you for a while. You know I cannot possibly win, but that is not my intention. You fail to convince me and you do not use hikmah rather you resort to name-calling, lol's and sarcasm then perhaps I will just get foamy from the mouth like a rabid dog. Is that what you want. Well then I'm sorry I'm not game.
I have many friends who are Syed and they are from authentic Ahl-ulBayt, but they are Sunni's ... now look at the sentence I have put in bold in your quote. Allah (SWT) wants to make Ahl ul-Bayt pure. I think you are mistaken. In my understanding Allah (SWT) is teaching Ahl ul-Bayt how to keep pure and explains the method in the same verse.
Firstly, I don't doubt any of the Sahabas this is your accusation on me and you will be held accountable for this accusation. Rather I am saying that your interpretation of said things is not the way I am interpreting them.
Hurting people like I said before and provided many examples is not indicating who should or should not be followed. People will hurt others knowingly or unknowingly, but we have not been given the right to judge them on that basis. If that was true then you could for arguments sake hurt me and I could get angry with you then does that mean I can reject anything you say on that basis? No ... it does not. You may still be talking truth. However, it just turns out that what you have said has not hurt me and I still can't believe you are going on with the useless argument.
You have been told about the argument from hadith using 'he who hurts Fatimah (RA)' ... it was aimed at Ali (RA) why the double standard?
No you are accusing me of accusing Prophet Muhammad (SAW) of being incorrect. Please show where I have said that Muhammad (SAW) is incorrect. I have said no such thing … and why are you lying? Is it because you don’t know how to accept an answer?
I would appreciate it that stop saying that I have accused Prophet (SAW) in any way. Rather you should realise that I have answered your question and defeated the basis of your argument, but I guess you won’t be doing that.
No … I don’t think you believe Fatimah (RA) had a tendency to get angry with people for incorrect reasons.
To me you are applying a specific hadith meant for a specific time and place and person (i.e. Ali (RA)) and incorrectly applying universally. I have already told you that people who upset Muhammad (SAW) have been forgiven, so it must mean that people who upset Fatimah (RA) could still be forgiven and that upsetting her (RA) is not the basis for judging people or emotionally rejecting them or their position as leaders.
So No again Muhammad (SAW) always tells the truth, but it people like you who bend when and where his (SAW) sayings are applicable to.
Which statement from hadith tells you that Fatimah (RA) used fadak to unveil some big faces? This again is your bias and convoluted interpretation surfacing.
You say personally to you … I can ignore that because it is how it appears personally to you. I need objective statements please.
Again prophets leave other prophets as inheritence. Otherwise all their material wealth which is of no spiritual importance is given to Charity. It is the best place for it to go.
I have said this before too… that Ahl-al-Bayt are in the Sunnis also. In fact there may be more Ahl al-Bayt in the Sunnis. I understand this as an instruction to take care of them. Taking care of the Qur’an and taking care of the Ahl al-Bayt. We do this. Muslims respect people from the family of Muhammad (SAW) to this day.
Ahl al-Bayt does not mean Shia, remember this!
You ask this question because you have fallen in to the self-inflicted trap of mistaken identity. You think the word ‘Deen’ here refers to Qur’an. It does not. Deen or the Way of Life is as per Qur’an and given context by the hadith. You must believe this or else you might as well not use the Sunnah to support your arguments.
If there is the same slander of Sahabah in this link then I would rather abstain.
Jumping to conclusions is not what I am doing. I am showing you what context those verses have. It is about an instruction from Allah (SWT) to the house of the Prophet (SAW) that it is intended for their greater rank. To be pure in worship …
Allah (SWT) instructs ye members of the Family to:
Stay quietly in their homes
Make not a dazzaling display
Establish Regualr Prayer
Give regular charity
Obey Allah (SWT) and Muhammad (SAW)
If they do this then all abominations will be removed from them and they will be pure.
Really? You must have more knowledge than all of us to make that judgment!
Well then you must have been calling me ‘Allama psyah sahab’, and your statement ‘you sure are doing a good job enlightening us’ as respectful good taste or were you ‘trying to offend’?
I can’t tell sometimes, perhaps you should work on tactics of ‘not mean to offend’ or else if you hurt someone you might be held accountable for it.*
I was just pointing it out since I have had general arguments with shias who would turn around and say, “Curse on those who criticize ahle-bayt [referring to themselves]”
If you don’t believe about people believing themselves to be “ahle bayt”, then you should do a sampling of your larger shiite community.
Buddy,
Go and read your previous posts before you start calling me a liar… In one post you are implying something and second post you deny it.. Let me point out where notion from….
Following is the question I have asked you…
Following was your response to this question:
When I pointed out to you about the hadith where Prophet P.B.U.H. mentioned whoever makes Fatima S.A. angry made him angry.. your response was you believe its incorrect to get angry… now what deoes that imply.. please read what you said before you start accusing others for pointing out whats in your previous posts…
….
I guess I have answered this question already… please read the following part of my previous posts with a cool and unbiased mind….
Well tatz your prespective… One place you are accepting that Bibi Fatima cannot get angry to other people for wrong reason… Its no other than in Sahih Bukhari narration that Bibi Fatima Zehra S.A… was angry with Abu Bakr…. And when asked if Prophet doesn’t say anything against Allah SWT will and if Bibi was angry for wrong reason.. would Prophet give such a hadith on Allah SWT will.. your answer was I believe getting angry is incorrect which kinda implied that to you it was incorrect eventhough Prophet said he would be angry if someone makes his daughter angry….
Your whole ideology is confusing and twisted and one place you are saying Bibi cannot be angry for wrong reason and than you arguing about the inheritance issue which I donno if you are using to Justify Abu Bakr or Bibi Fatima Zehra S.A..
The fact is both the narrations are in your Sahih books … you may choose to ignore these facts but personally it has a lot to offer for me….. the different arguments I have seen in this thread where one guppy said Bibi was later pleased with Abu Bakr which contradicted other narration in Sahih Bukhari.. similary.. your argument are so twisted and confusing… its enough for me to stand by my opinions… You may choose to believe what you want too… I am just expressing my views and telling you their basis…..
I believe as per my discussion we were talking about a ayat in quran which didn’t have any thing to do with sahabah…. And all I said was read the ayat in quran and mentioned this is a random link… However you are stereotyping for as an excuse which was out of no where… The website link below is quite clear its about quran but if that’s your excuse to ignore the facts… its your call… http://quran.com/article42.html
Please read the ayat again….
And stay quietly in your houses, and make not a dazzling display, like that of the former Times of Ignorance; and establish regular Prayer, and give regular Charity; and obey Allah and His Messenger. And Allah only wishes to remove all abomination from you, ye members of the Family, and to make you pure and spotless.[33:33]
To me it seems you are mixing an*** If*** with an AND clause……… I don’t see where you getting the*** if*** part from… can you please clarify?
Well I am sorry If I had offended you… I hope you won’t find this post offensive…
May Allah SWT help us all follow the right path… Ameen.*
**Texan Dude ** Lucky you! I just manage to get some time to respond to your questions. They are not that difficult to answer as you may think.
So I am attempting to answer them and mind you the answers will not be palatable to you as I am not answerng them from your perspective!!!
I don’t believe you asked this question!!! The Prophet (saw) always spoke truth even when jesting. He never spoke untruth. It is the later generations which just to enhance their sectarian views made such statements and attributed them to the Prophet (saw). Authenticated and verified narrations of the Prophet (saw) are nothing but the Truth. That means not all the stuff attributed to Prophet (saw) is necessarily true.
I thought this was very obvious to all???
Read Surah Najm
Your comrade erreth not, nor is deceived; [53:2]
Nor doth he speak of (his own) desire. [53:3]
It is naught save an inspiration that is inspired, [53:4]
**Muhammad was sent as a Mercy for all that exists; He does not speak of His Desire **
Allah said,
[RIGHT]وَمَا يَنطِقُ عَنِ الْهَوَى ] [/RIGHT]
(Nor does he speak of desire), asserting that nothing the Prophet utters is of his own desire or wish,
[RIGHT]إِنْ هُوَ إِلاَّ وَحْىٌ يُوحَى ] [/RIGHT]
(It is only a revelation revealed.), means, he only conveys to the people what he was commanded to convey, in its entirety without additions or deletions. Imam Ahmad recorded that Abu Umamah said that he heard the Messenger of Allah say,
[RIGHT]«لَيَدْخُلَنَّ الْجَنَّةَ بِشَفَاعَةِ رَجُلٍ لَيْسَ بِنَبِيَ مِثْلُ الْحَيَّيْنِ أَوْ مِثْلُ أَحَدِ الْحَيَّيْنِ رَبِيعَةَ وَمُضَر» [/RIGHT]
(Verily, numbers similar to the two tribes, or one of them, Rabiah and Mudar, will enter Paradise on account of the intercession of one man, who is not a Prophet.) A man asked, "O Allah's Messenger! Is not Rabiah a subtribe of Mudar.‘’ The Prophet said,
[RIGHT]«إِنَّمَا أَقُولُ مَا أَقُول» [/RIGHT]
(I said what I said.) Imam Ahmad recorded that Abdullah bin Amr said, "I used to record everything I heard from the Messenger of Allah so it would be preserved. The Quraysh discouraged me from this, saying, `You record everything you hear from the Messenger of Allah , even though he is human and sometimes speaks when he is angry’ I stopped recording the Hadiths for a while, but later mentioned what they said to the Messenger of Allah , who said,
[RIGHT]«اكْتُبْ، فَوَ الَّذِي نَفْسِي بِيَدِهِ مَا خَرَجَ مِنِّي إِلَّا الْحَق» [/RIGHT]
**(Write! By He in Whose Hand is my soul, every word that comes out of me is the Truth.)‘’ **Abu Dawud also collected this Hadith.
(5. He has been taught by one mighty in power.) (6. Dhu Mirrah then he Istawa.) (7. While he was in the highest part of the horizon,) (8. Then he approached and came closer,) (9. And was at a distance of two bows’ length or less.) (10. So (Allah) revealed to His servant whatever He revealed.) (11. The heart lied not in what he saw.) (12. Will you then dispute with him about what he saw) (13. And indeed he saw him at a second descent.) (14. Near Sidrat Al-Muntaha.) (15. Near it is the Paradise of Abode.) (16. When that covered the lote tree which did cover it!) (17. The sight turned not aside, nor it transgressed beyond the limit.) (18. Indeed he saw of the greatest Ssgns of his Lord.)
“Obey Allaah and obey the Messenger” [Soorah Aal-'Imraan (3):32]
**The above means obey Allah (swt)’s commands as per Quran and obey the Prophet (saw) what he says and acts upon. **
“Fatima is a part of me. He in fact tortures me who tortures her.”
The above narration of the Prophet (saw) was for specific reasons and you well know what I am referring to. You and the website you refer to (believe me, it is run by amateurs) may rubbish without ever authenticating the Shia hadith I had quoted in my earlier post.
Not to worry because we have nearly word to word hadith in our most reliable hadith source. As a shia you may rubbish your own books and not hold our books as relevant to your beliefs but then who cares?
The first hadith is from 'Ali bin Al-Husain (ra) Imam Zainul Abideen (ra) fourth Infallible Shia Imam
*Narrated 'Ali bin Al-Husain: That when they reached Medina after returning from Yazid bin Mu’awaiya after the martyrdom of Husain bin 'Ali (may Allah bestow His Mercy upon him), Al-Miswar bin Makhrama met him and said to him, “Do you have any need you may order me to satisfy?”
'Ali said, “No.” Al-Miswar said, Will you give me the sword of Allah’s Apostle for I am afraid that people may take it from you by force? By Allah, if you give it to me, they will never be able to take it till I die."
When Ali bin Abu Talib demanded the hand of the daughter of Abi Jahal to be his wife besides Fatima, I heard Allah’s Apostle on his pulpit delivering a sermon in this connection before the people, and I had then attained my age of puberty.
Allah’s Apostle said, “Fatima is from me, and I am afraid she will be subjected to trials in her religion (because of jealousy).” The Prophet then mentioned one of his son-in-law who was from the tribe of 'Abu Shams, and he praised him as a good son-in-law, saying, "Whatever he said was the truth, and he promised me and fulfilled his promise.
I do not make a legal thing illegal, nor do I make an illegal thing legal, but by Allah, the daughter of Allah’s Apostle and the daughter of the enemy of Allah, (i.e. Abu Jahl) can never get together (as the wives of one man) ***Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 53, Number 342: **
*Miswar b. Makhramali reported that he heard Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) say, as he sat on the pulpit: The sons of Hisham b. Mughira have asked my permission to marry their daughter with 'Ali b. Abi Talib (that refers to the daughter of Abu Jahl for whom 'All had sent a proposal for marriage).
But I would not allow them, I would not allow them, I would not allow them (and the only alternative possible is) that 'Ali should divorce my daughter (and then marry their daughter), for my daughter is part of me. He who disturbs her in fact disturbs me and he who offends her offends me.* Sahih Muslim Book 31, Number 5999
*** (Imam Zain-ul-'Abidin) **'Ali b. Husain reported that when they came to Medina from Yazid b. Mu’awiya after the martyrdom of Husain b. 'Ali (Allah be pleased with him) Miswar b. Makhramah met him and said to him: Is there any work for me which you ask me to do? I said to him: No.
He again said to me: Would you not give me the sword of Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) for I fear that the people may snatch it from you? By Allah, if you give that to me, no one would be able to take it away, so long as there is life in me. Verily 'Ali b. Abi Talib sent a proposal of marriage to the daughter of Abu
Jahl in spite of (the fact that his wife) Fatima (had been living in his house). Thereupon I heard Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) say while addressing the people on the pulpit. I was adolescing in those days. He said : Fatima is a part of me and I fear that she may be put to trial in regard to religion. He then made a mention of his son-in law who had been from the tribe of 'Abd Shams and praised his behaviour as a son-in-law and said: Whatever he said to me he told the truth and whatever he promised he fulfilled it for me. I am not going to declare forbidden what is lawful and make lawful what is forbidden, but, by Allah, the daughter of Allah’s Messenger and the daughter of the enemy of Allah can never be combined at one place.* **Sahih Muslim Book 31, Number 6001: **
*'Ali b. Husain reported that Miswar b. Makhramah informed him that 'Ali b. Abi Talib sent the proposal of marriage to the daughter of Abu Jahl as he had Fatima, the daughter of Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him), (as his wife).
When Fatima heard about it, she came to Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him) and said: The people say that you never feel angry on account of your daughters and now 'Ali is going to marry the daughter of Abu Jahl. Makhramah said: Thereupon Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) rose up and I heard him reciting Tashahhud and say: Now to the point. I gave a daughter of mine (Zainab) to Abu’l-'As b. Rabi, and he spoke to me and spoke the truth.
Verily Fatima, the daughter of Muhammad, is a part of me and I do not approve that she may be put to any trial and by Allah, the daughter of Allah’s Messenger cannot be combined with the daughter of God’s enemy (as the co-wives) of one person. Thereupon 'Ali gave up (the idea of his intended) marriage. This hadith has been narrated on the authority of Zuhri with the same chain of transmitters. ***Sahih Muslim Book 31, Number 6002: **
Your denial doesn’t change the facts.
Anger is Human emotion. All the Prophets (Peace be upon the all) Blessed Companions (May Allah be pleased with all) Blessed Ahlul Bayt (The wives are part and parcel of this group) (May Allah be pleased with all) did get angry at occasions.
Anger of Hazrat Fatimah (ra) with all her blessed piety and being one of the four blessed women in Heaven (having the highest rank among the women) was misplaced against Hazrat Abu Bakr (ra) in regards to Fadak issue. For you this must be real blasphemy.
This has nothing to do with infallibility. Infallibility belongs to Allah (swt) ALONE.
Read the following so that you are made aware of Status of Hz. Abu Bakr (ra)
94. We confirm that, after the death of the Messenger of Allah, may Allah bless him and grant him peace, the caliphate went first to Abu Bakr al-Siddiq, may Allah be pleased with him, thus proving his excellence and superiority over the rest of the Muslims; then to 'Umar ibn alKhattab, may Allah be pleased with him; then to 'Uthman, may Allah be pleased with him; and then to 'Ali ibn Abi Talib, may Allah be pleased with him. These are the Rightly-Guided Caliphs and upright leaders.
Aqeedah of Ahlul Sunnah Wal Jama’a - by Imam Tahawi
Now read it again, this time very slowly digesting every word and pause at “but love for my near relatives”
Would you regard wives as Prophet’s (saw) near relatives?
Would you regard all sons in law as near relatives of Prophet (saw)? or just one will suffice for you? (Just to remind you that one among them was a son in law twice)
Would you regard all his cousins as near relatives of Prophet (saw)? or just one will suffice for you?
Would you regard all the fathers in law near relatives of Prophet (saw)?
Would you regard other grandchildren of the Prophet (saw) as near relatives?
Now tell me honestly with your right hand firmly on your heart, do you and your type really follow Prophet’s (saw) command as stated in the Quran to love the near relatives of the Prophet (saw).
NO! You take pride in abusing most of them
Are near relatives and Ahlul Bayt one and the same accordding to you?
Tomorrow** if **I get the time then I will address other points raised in your post.
Please do not open other issues so that we get side-tracked. And I do not have the time to go in circles.
Well well buddy… I asked this question to get your feed back on some issue… I wonder why are you having a hard time believe … its not like I am denying the fact I am just asking for your feed back to make a point here in the follow up questions… which apparently you haven’t been able to make up time to answer… The way you have suprised be before by presenting hadiths from some xyz books which contradicts Sahih books… trust me I have all the reason to ask such questions just to be at the same page as u… I donno in your game of pick and choose hadith.. what to expect and what to call authentic from you…
Well there is no where in the hadith I have quote where it mentioned for specific reasons.. So let me guess just because you have a hard time defending yourself.. you want to call the hadith only applies to specific reason… If that was the case why didn’t Prophet P.B.U.H. said nazubillah Hazrat Ali… as you are trying to protray rather than Who?
In my initial debate on quran and sunnah or quran and ahleybait which I started in my first post your previous post served as an example of how people pick and choose hadith that full fills their interest even though they contradict what they regard as Sahih Books, your this post shows an other side to the argument… where you related an hadith just to some specific reasons just so you can have an excuse to ignore the fact… My question is no matter what… Had Prophet P.B.U.H. had given such a hadith if Bibi Fatima Zehra S.A. nauzubillah had the tendency to get angry for wrong reasons…???
Reading all the posts in this thread my question to you still is the following:
“Today I have perfected your religion and completed my favour upon you, and I was satisfied that Islam be your religion.” (Qur’an 5:3)
In the verse above Quran testified Islam was perfect at the time of Prophet P.B.U.H. and all the sunnah were compiled years after the death of Prophet P.B.U.H. and we have seen how people pick and choose hadith that fullfills their interests and either declare the other as either unauthentic or relate it to a specific reason…
“Zayd said: ‘O brother, by God, I have become aged and old and I have forgotten some of what I used to remember from the Messenger of Allah , upon whom be Allah’s peace and benedictions. So accept what I narrate to you and as to what I don’t, trouble me not regarding it.’ Then he said: ‘One day the Messenger of Allah , upon whom be Allah’s peace and benedictions, addressed us near a pond called Khumm between Makkah and Madinah. He praised God and extolled Him and preached and reminded (us). Then he said, “Lo, O people, I am only a human being and I am about to respond to the messenger of my Lord *. I am leaving behind two precious things (thaqalayn) among you. The first of the two is the Book of Allah. In it is guidance and light. So get hold of the Book of Allah and adhere to it.” Then he urged and motivated (us) regarding the Book of Allah . Then he said, “And my Ahl al¬Bayt (family). I urge you to remember God regarding my Ahl al¬Bayt. I urge you to remember God regarding my Ahl al¬Bayt. I urge you to remember God regarding my Ahl al¬Bayt”’” …
(Sahih Muslim, part 7, Kitab fada’il al¬Sahabah [Maktabat wa Matbaat Muhammad Ali Subayh wa Awladuhu: Cairo] pp. 122-123.)
and we all know Ahleybait has alwayz been there to defend islam… if it was kerbala, khyber. Imam Jaffar-e-Sadiq AS grandson of Imam Hussain A.S. was the teacher of 2 sunni Imams Imam Hanafia and Imam Malid… and yet some people chose to accept Imam Hanafia and Imam Malik as there Imams rather than their teacher who was from Ahley bait…even Imam Mahdi is going to be from Ahley bait … even quran talks about the purity of Ahleybait.
The argument is still the same Quran and Sunnah or Quran and Ahleybait
Sadique you may choose to cross the line of respect and call the me or the website rubbish rather than clarifying things or the info the website has to offer… I donno how to percieve this act of yours is it another way you choose to deny the facts… I would have expected you to rather clarify things than just call it rubbish… http://www.answering-ansar.org/answers/fadak/en/chap10.php
Would you regard wives as Prophet’s (saw) near relatives?
Would you regard all sons in law as near relatives of Prophet (saw)? or just one will suffice for you? (Just to remind you that one among them was a son in law twice)
Would you regard all his cousins as near relatives of Prophet (saw)? or just one will suffice for you?
Would you regard all the fathers in law near relatives of Prophet (saw)?
Would you regard other grandchildren of the Prophet (saw) as near relatives?
Ameen
[/quote]
Your questions are answered in details with references in the following website, I would rather have you read those because they are are more scholarly explanations
Auzdubillahi minashaiTanirajim … And May Allah (SWT) guide me in this. I will leave the rest for brother Ibn Sadique to qualify, but this question you raise again and again without ever focussing on the vast hadith that we have. You blame us for picking and choosing hadith so let’s turn the tables and show you as much of the hadith I can get you regarding ‘anger’.
My first point however, will be a question that attempts to answer your question directly. In order to believe that Fatima-tuZahra to be a person who gets angry only for the right reasons you will need to provide evidence for this.
In the same way you have asked us if there is a hadith that shows Fatima-tuZahra having the tendency to get angry for the wrong reasons, we can ask you the same question that show us a hadith where Rasul-Allah said, that his daughter (RA) has no tendency of getting angry for the wrong reasons. So please find this hadith for us.
Now let’s focus on anger itself:
The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) said: “The best of you are those who are slow to anger and swift to cool down…Beware of anger, for it is a live coal on the heart of the descendants of Adam.” - Al-Tirmidhi, Hadith 1331
In this hadith there is nothing to distinguish between anger for right reasons or anger for wrong reasons, there is no difference, getting angry itself is not befitting. Rather we must prevent ourselves from getting angry at every cost. If something is wrong then anger should be channeled towards righteous action to rectify the wrong thing, and when the wrong thing is rectified then the person should cool down quickly and be happy again.
…Muhammad ibn Ya’qub (al-Kulayni), from 'Ali ibn Ibrahim, from Muhammad ibn 'Isa, from Yunus, from Dawud ibn Farqad, who reports al 'Imam al-Sadiq (A) to have said: “Anger is the key (that opens the door) to all kinds of vices.”
Part of the exposition on this narration - “… Anger, in fact, is an inner psychic movement due to which a state of agitation is produced in the heart’s blood, arousing a desire for vengeance. And when this agitation becomes more violent, it intensifies the fire of anger. A violent commotion in the blood seizes the heart, filling the arteries and the brain with a flurry of dark smoke, on account of which the mind and the intellect lose control and become powerless…”
The place for aggression is to sanction righteous preservation and survival.
It is reported on the authority of al-Imam al-Sadiq (A) that the Apostle of God (S) said: “Anger spoils faith in the same way as vinegar destroys honey.”
“Indeed, this anger is the spark lit by Satan in the heart of the son of Adam.” - 'Imam al-Baqir (A)
It is recorded in the Torah regarding that which God Almighty confided to Moses (A), saying: “O Moses, control your anger towards those over whom I have given you authority, so that I may spare you from My Wrath.”
It is reported from al 'Imam al-Baqir (A) that he said. “Verily, anger is a spark ignited by the Devil in the human heart. Indeed, when anyone of you gets angry, his eyes become red, the veins of his neck become swollen and Satan enters them. Therefore, whosoever among you is concerned about himself on account of it, he should lie down for a while so that the filth of Satan may be removed from him at the time.”
Maysir reports that once anger was discussed in the presence of al-'Imam al Baqir (A). He said: “Verily, it happens that an angry person would not be satisfied until he enters the Fire (i.e. his anger does not subside unless it drags him into the hellfire). Therefore, whoever is angry with someone let him sit down immediately if he is standing; for, indeed, it would repel from him the uncleanliness of Satan. And whoever gets angry with his kinsman, let him approach him and pat him; for the feeling of consanguinity, when stimulated by touch, induces calmness.”
I have taken Shi’a sources above too references: Al-Kulayni, Usul al-Kafi (Tehran), Vol. III (Arabic text with Persian translation by Sayyid Jawad Mustafawi, p. 412.
Now watch this:
“The strong man is not the one who throws people in wrestling. The strong man is the one who has control of himself when he is angry.” - From RiyaduSauliheen.
You will have noticed that at the beginning of this post I wrote something: Translated: I seek refuge in Allah (SWT) from Satan the Rejected One. This saying in Al Bukhari 7/99, and Muslim 4/2015 is confirmed as the correct method for controlling anger. It is an invocation (du’a) to Allah (SWT) to be protected from Satan. Anger is from Satan.
Notice how none of these hadith talk about anger for right or wrong reasons. They just talk about anger as a general topic.
Now there is no evidence of this anywhere, but I will ask you the same question, when you get angry do you seek protection from Allah (SWT)? When FatimatuZahra (RA) became angry is there any record in hadith that shows she uttered this invocation?
Now we can read between the lines all you like, but it is clear that Abu Bakr AsSiddique had a dilemma on his hands. Does he give up the Fadaq to please Fatimah (RA) but creates a Bidd’a or does he follow the Sunnah and risks upsetting Fatimah (RA)? According to all common sense it is obvious Fatimah (RA) was in error and Abu Bakr AsSiddique (RA) was very upset at hearing Fatimah (RA) was upset due to his decision, but later she realised her mistake, she then was back to normal.
This behaviour is exactly that what is required in the first hadith I gave, that if a person does find themselves getting angry then to do so slowly, but then to calm down quickly. There is no evidence that Fatimah (RA) was angry with anyone for any long duration. Not talking to someone does not qualify as remaining in a state of anger with them.
Now here is you dilemma … If she (RA) was angry for a long time then she was not fulfilling the advice in the hadith. However, if she (RA) did follow the hadith then it means that you cannot use the argument of selecting people as righteous or not righteous based on your idea of who is right or wrong based on who angers Fatimah (RA). I state there is no where, where it states that the anger of Faitmah (RA) is like a detection mechanism for selecting good people from bad people.
Well well buddy.... I asked this question to get your feed back on some issue..... I wonder why are you having a hard time believe ... its not like I am denying the fact I am just asking for your feed back to make a point here in the follow up questions... which apparently you haven't been able to make up time to answer..... The way you have suprised be before by presenting hadiths from some xyz books which contradicts Sahih books... trust me I have all the reason to ask such questions just to be at the same page as u.... I donno in your game of pick and choose hadith.. what to expect and what to call authentic from you....
Texan_Dude - Please re-write the above as I can’t make sense of what you are getting at. I’ll try to answer as I understand.
If bring some hadith from your books and you rubbish them saying books xyz.
I have also given you hadith from Sahih Hadith books (I am glad that you admit they are sahih) confirming what is in your books.
It is you sir you is playing game of picking and choosing hadith and rubbishing them when they go against your sectarian views.
Are you satisfied with the sahih hadith that I had quoted:
Have them and again and then deny them.
The first hadith is from 'Ali bin Al-Husain (ra) Imam Zainul Abideen (ra) fourth Infallible Shia Imam
Narrated 'Ali bin Al-Husain: That when they reached Medina after returning from Yazid bin Mu'awaiya after the martyrdom of Husain bin 'Ali (may Allah bestow His Mercy upon him), Al-Miswar bin Makhrama met him and said to him, "Do you have any need you may order me to satisfy?"
'Ali said, "No." Al-Miswar said, Will you give me the sword of Allah's Apostle for I am afraid that people may take it from you by force? By Allah, if you give it to me, they will never be able to take it till I die."
When Ali bin Abu Talib demanded the hand of the daughter of Abi Jahal to be his wife besides Fatima, I heard Allah's Apostle on his pulpit delivering a sermon in this connection before the people, and I had then attained my age of puberty.
Allah's Apostle said, "Fatima is from me, and I am afraid she will be subjected to trials in her religion (because of jealousy)." The Prophet then mentioned one of his son-in-law who was from the tribe of 'Abu Shams, and he praised him as a good son-in-law, saying, "Whatever he said was the truth, and he promised me and fulfilled his promise.
I do not make a legal thing illegal, nor do I make an illegal thing legal, but by Allah, the daughter of Allah's Apostle and the daughter of the enemy of Allah, (i.e. Abu Jahl) can never get together (as the wives of one man) *Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 53, Number 342: *
Miswar b. Makhramali reported that he heard Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) say, as he sat on the pulpit: The sons of Hisham b. Mughira have asked my permission to marry their daughter with 'Ali b. Abi Talib (that refers to the daughter of Abu Jahl for whom 'All had sent a proposal for marriage).
But I would not allow them, I would not allow them, I would not allow them (and the only alternative possible is) that 'Ali should divorce my daughter (and then marry their daughter), for my daughter is part of me. He who disturbs her in fact disturbs me and he who offends her offends me. Sahih Muslim Book 31, Number 5999
(Imam Zain-ul-'Abidin) 'Ali b. Husain reported that when they came to Medina from Yazid b. Mu'awiya after the martyrdom of Husain b. 'Ali (Allah be pleased with him) Miswar b. Makhramah met him and said to him: Is there any work for me which you ask me to do? I said to him: No.
He again said to me: Would you not give me the sword of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) for I fear that the people may snatch it from you? By Allah, if you give that to me, no one would be able to take it away, so long as there is life in me. Verily 'Ali b. Abi Talib sent a proposal of marriage to the daughter of Abu
Jahl in spite of (the fact that his wife) Fatima (had been living in his house). Thereupon I heard Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) say while addressing the people on the pulpit. I was adolescing in those days. He said : Fatima is a part of me and I fear that she may be put to trial in regard to religion. He then made a mention of his son-in law who had been from the tribe of 'Abd Shams and praised his behaviour as a son-in-law and said: Whatever he said to me he told the truth and whatever he promised he fulfilled it for me. I am not going to declare forbidden what is lawful and make lawful what is forbidden, but, by Allah, the daughter of Allah's Messenger and the daughter of the enemy of Allah can never be combined at one place. *Sahih Muslim Book 31, Number 6001: *
'Ali b. Husain reported that Miswar b. Makhramah informed him that 'Ali b. Abi Talib sent the proposal of marriage to the daughter of Abu Jahl as he had Fatima, the daughter of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him), (as his wife).
When Fatima heard about it, she came to Allah's Apostle (may peace be upon him) and said: The people say that you never feel angry on account of your daughters and now 'Ali is going to marry the daughter of Abu Jahl. Makhramah said: Thereupon Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) rose up and I heard him reciting Tashahhud and say: Now to the point. I gave a daughter of mine (Zainab) to Abu'l-'As b. Rabi, and he spoke to me and spoke the truth.
Verily Fatima, the daughter of Muhammad, is a part of me and I do not approve that she may be put to any trial and by Allah, the daughter of Allah's Messenger cannot be combined with the daughter of God's enemy (as the co-wives) of one person. Thereupon 'Ali gave up (the idea of his intended) marriage. This hadith has been narrated on the authority of Zuhri with the same chain of transmitters. Sahih Muslim Book 31, Number 6002:
Well there is no where in the hadith I have quote where it mentioned for specific reasons.. So let me guess just because you have a hard time defending yourself.. you want to call the hadith only applies to specific reason.... If that was the case why didn't Prophet P.B.U.H. said nazubillah Hazrat Ali... as you are trying to protray rather than Who?
Please oblige me and confirm who has narrated the following hadith:
“Fatima is a part of me. He in fact tortures me who tortures her.”
**Texan Dude ** – you ducked and did not answer my questions and just gave me links to read through.
I respond in kind (Links against links)– please read the link below and get all the answers to your queries. Real Scholarly works
Prophet’s Wives are Ahlel Bayt
Prophet’s Daughters are Ahlel Bayt
Word Games With Verse 33:33
The Status of Ahlel Bayt
Foundation of Shi’ism is Nasibi
Slander Against Prophet’s Wives
Mothers of the Believers
Love for Ahlel Bayt and Sahabah
Who are the Ahlel Bayt?
I asked you the following question before – please answer in our own words and no links, please (as I can throw a lot of links back at you)
Are near relatives and Ahlul Bayt one and the same according to you?*
and we all know Ahleybait has alwayz been there to defend islam... if it was kerbala, khyber. Imam Jaffar-e-Sadiq AS grandson of Imam Hussain A.S. was the teacher of 2 sunni Imams Imam Hanafia and Imam Malid.... and yet some people chose to accept Imam Hanafia and Imam Malik as there Imams rather than their teacher who was from Ahley bait...even Imam Mahdi is going to be from Ahley bait ... even quran talks about the purity of Ahleybait.
Defending Islam was not the Monopoly of your limited or for a better word selected-version of Ahlul Bayt (raa).
You should know that Imam Jaffar-e-Sadiq (ra) [And you should that he is from the progeny of Hz. Abu Bakr (ra) too! Hz. Abu Bakr (ra) blood flows in his veins!] was a great teacher but he did not write any books on Fiqh.
It is challenge to you
Give me the name of Fiqh books he wrote?
We have Imam Abu Hanifa (ra) and Imam Malik (ra) as best of his students, can you name one famous and renowned Shia scholar who studied under supervision of Imam Jaffar-e-Sadiq (ra)?
It is none as all your eminent and renowned scholars and fuqaha came after so-called disappearance of the 12th Imam.
Sunnis follow Imam Abu Hanifa and Imam Malik in Fiqh only.
You should know that Imam Jaffar-e-Sadiq (ra) [And you should that he is from the progeny of Hz. Abu Bakr (ra) too! Hz. Abu Bakr (ra) blood flows in his veins!] was a great teacher but he did not write any books on Fiqh.
I am quite busy will reply your posts later... but would appreciate if you can elaborate how you derived the above conclusion.
