Re: some questions regarding Abu Bakr thread
these political squabbles dont change the fundamentals of religion true ....but in the course of these squabbles many Bidah entered the faith
dont follow bidahs then, any of it, none of it is part of religion.
Re: some questions regarding Abu Bakr thread
I know what Surah Ikhlas means and by no means I am comparing Prophet pbuh with Allah (nauzbillah), if that is what you are thinking. But Allah has gifted Prophet pbuh with exalted standards of character for us to follow. His (pbuh) life is made a living example of Quran for us. Allah has asked us to take guidance from Quran and the life of Prophet pbuh. Allah has made him a blessing on all mankind. I know in Quran Allah said that tell them you are made from clay like everyone. But Allah didn’t say that so we would actually start talking about him (pbuh) like every other man, Allah said that so people won’t take him (pbuh) as God because Allah has made him (pbuh) fool proof for our guidance that it was and is easy to worship him (nauzbillah) by the people of that time and any time to come. Allah also said that I have made you (pbuh) a blessing on the mankind, send you (pbuh) as a universal messenger with guidance and truth for everyone to follow. When Allah has given such high ranks to his messenger (pbuh), made him a perfect example for us to seek guidance then who the hell we are to talk about him (pbuh) or consider him (pbuh) as “any man.”
Now I hope you do understand why I said what I said and if you still want to misinterpret my statement then there is nothing I can do...
Peace-
Peace Lusi
The example may be a perfect one, but it's interpretation is what is under scrutiny here. It is not what they did or did not do. And also we must have some confidence in the best followers of the best ummah who were the Sahabah also. It is us who choose to misunderstand their actions and then we choose to differentiate between the daughter of RasoolAllah from the best friend of RasoolAllah. They are both from the relatives of Muhammad (SAW).
Re: some questions regarding Abu Bakr thread
Peace Lusi
The example may be a perfect one, but it's interpretation is what is under scrutiny here. It is not what they did or did not do. And also we must have some confidence in the best followers of the best ummah who were the Sahabah also. It is us who choose to misunderstand their actions and then we choose to differentiate between the daughter of RasoolAllah from the best friend of RasoolAllah. They are both from the relatives of Muhammad (SAW).
I am not bad mouthing sahabas nor I am siding anyone side. I strongly believe that we shouldn't be making comparisons because there is nothing positive we are going to get out of it. What I said had nothing to do with the shia sunni debate over here but on the statements PCG has made.
[quote]
*Fatima Bibi might be the daughter of the Prophet and he may have praised her and loved her a great deal. But there is such a thing as a figure of speech. If he says "whoever hurts her, hurts me"...that's something lots of dads say about their daughters. *
[/quote]
Prophet Muhammad pbuh wasn't "any father" nor his daughter was "any daughter" and both shia/sunni books are filled with how much love and respect he (pbuh) had for his (pbuh) beloved daughter. This statement was extremely disrespectful and shouldn't be acceptable by any sane person.
And all those people who are bashing sahabas should look at their own characters which aren't even .1% close to those of sahabas. Sahabas had spent their lives with Prophet pbuh and we all should have respect for them. Calling names and disrespecting them is unacceptable.
Peace-
Re: some questions regarding Abu Bakr thread
Brother** Texan_Dude **I hope that you are ok.
I am sure you will agree that it is the faith and belief of all the Muslims (Shias, Sunnis and if there any other flavours – them too) that the blessed Prophet (peace be upon him) is the best of Creation.
It is a fact that since advent of Islam, Majority of Mankind does not accept the Prophet (peace be upon him) as the Messenger of Allah (swt) or grant him that lofty station/status.
Now do you sincerely think that by them (non-Muslims) not doing so affects the status of the blessed Prophet (peace be upon him) one bit?
“Of course not!” Surely that’s what you will say. Right?
In similar vein since the advent of Islam overwhelming Majority of Muslims (90%) hold Hz. Abu Bakr (ra) in highest esteem and insha’Allah will be doing so till the day Qiyamah.
Now if the 10% of Muslims due to their narrow sectarian motives hold the opposing view will that affect the status of Hz. Abu Bakr (ra)? It is plain and simple no!
Now to one other point, Allah (swt) has stated in the Quran that it is up to Him to honour whom He likes and debase whom He likes.
Say: O Allah! Owner of Sovereignty! Thou givest sovereignty unto whom Thou wilt, and Thou withdrawest sovereignty from whom Thou wilt.** Thou exaltest whom Thou wilt, and Thou abasest whom Thou wilt.** In Thy hand is the good. Lo! Thou art Able to do all things. [3:26]
It is great honour that Allah (swt) out his Grace let it so that Hz. Abu Bakr (ra) is buried next to the Prophet (saw) thus facilitating all the Believers (90% of them) to pay respects and salutations to Hz. Abu Bakr (ra) after having done for the Prophet (saw) initially.
Think of billions of Believers who done so and billions of billions who will do so till the day of Qiyamah!!! This is a great Honour but if you knew.
Those who Allah (swt) has exalted your hatred towards them only harms yourself, just ponder over this in your solitude.
Re: some questions regarding Abu Bakr thread
“Fatima is a part of me, and he who makes her angry, makes me angry.”
Brother **Texan_Dude **- Now you and your likes would like to claim that the above statement was narrated in advance by the Prophet (saw) for what Hz. Abu Bakr (ra) will do regarding Fadak.
How wrong you are.
Please go and read your own books written by your own eminent scholars and read they say:
“Fatima is a part of me, and he who makes her angry, makes me angry.” was stated by the Prophet (saw) towards Hz. Ali bin Abi Talib!!!
Read the following:
It is narrated on the authority of Abu Abdullah Jafar Al-Sadiq: A miserable of the miserables came to Fatima, the daughter of the Messenger of Allah, and said to her: “Did you not know that Ali proposed to marry (Khataba) the daughter of Abu Jahl?”
She said: “Is it true what you say?
He said three times: “What I say is true.”
Jealousy entered into her (heart) to an extent she could not control, for Allah has ordained that women be jealous and that men perform Jihad, and He has made the reward of the patient (woman) similar to that of the Murabit and Muhajir in the way of Allah.
He said: And Fatima’s anguish became severe and she remained thinking about it until night time…she moved to her father’s residence. Ali came to his residence and did not see Fatima and his anguish increased and became great on him, even though he did not know what happened, and he was ashamed to call her from her father’s house so he went to the Masjid and prayed as much as Allah willed, and he collected some of the sand in the Masjid and laid on it.
When the Prophet saw how sad and anguished Fatima was, he poured water over himself and wore his clothes and entered the Masjid. He kept praying, making Rukoo and Sujood, and after every time he completed two Raka he made Du’a that Allah remove what Fatima had of sadness and anguish because he left her turning over and breathing heavily.
When the Prophet saw that she could not sleep and could not rest he said: “O daughter, rise!” So she rose and the Prophet carried Al-Hassan and she carried Al-Hussain and took hold of Umm Kulthoom’s hand until they reached Ali (AS) while he was sleeping.
The Prophet put his foot on Ali, pinched him, and said: “Rise Abu Turab! You have disturbed many a resting person. Call for me Abu Bakr from his house and Umar from his Majlis and Talha.” So Ali went and got them from their houses and they gathered around the Messenger of Allah.
The Messenger of Allah then said: “O Ali! Do you not know that Fatima is a piece of me and I am from her. Whoever disturbs her, disturbs me and whoever disturbs me has disturbed Allah, and whoever disturbs her after my death then as if he has disturbed her in my lifetime and whoever disturbed her in my lifetime then as if he has disturbed her after my death.”
(source: Ibn Babveh Al Qummi’s “Elal Al-Sharae’”, pp.185-186, Al-Najaf Print; also narrated in Majlisi “Bihar” 43/201-202)
read the following, as narrated by Al-Majlisi’s Haqq-ul-Yaqeen as well as in Al-Tusi’s Amali:
“When Fatima asked for Fadak from Abu Bakr and he refused to give it to her, she returned full of anger that could not be described and she was sick; and she was angry with Ali because he refused to help her.” (Al-Majlisi’s Haqq-ul-Yaqeen, pp.203-204; also recorded in Al-Tusi’s Amali, p.295)
Now click on this link and you will get all the evidence and arguments – and you will find the following narrations too!!!
Another interesting read for you:
**Fatima (رضّى الله عنها) reconciled with Abu Bakr (رضّى الله عنه) **
In any case, it was only initially that Fatima (رضّى الله عنها) was angry at Abu Bakr (رضّى الله عنه). The Shia endeavour to capitalize on her feelings to convey the idea that because she was wronged, she had directed that Abu Bakr (رضّى الله عنه) should not attend her Janaazah and that she remained angry with him until her demise. We do not agree with this narrative, and we believe that Fatima (رضّى الله عنها) eventually became pleased with Abu Bakr (رضّى الله عنه).
Abu Bakr (رضّى الله عنه) was not motivated by ill-feeling or malice for Fatima (رضّى الله عنها) in the dispute regarding inheritance. In fact, placating her, Abu Bakr (رضّى الله عنه) frequently said:
“By Allah! Oh daughter of Rasool-Allah! Kindness to the relatives of Rasool-Allah is more beloved to me than my kindness with my own relatives.”
According to both Sunni and Shia narrations, Abu Bakr (رضّى الله عنه) was greatly saddened by Fatima’s displeasure (رضّى الله عنها). He went to great lengths to please her while remaining firm on the Shariah. He went to her home, stood at her door in the midday sun and asked Ali (رضّى الله عنه) to be his intercessor in his sincere attempt to placate and please Fatima (رضّى الله عنها).
Ultimately, she became pleased with him and accepted his decision. These narrations appear in Madaarijun Nubuwwah, Kitaabul Wafaa, Baihaqi and in the commentaries of Mishkaat.
Kitaabul Muwaafiqah narrates that Anaani said:
“Abu Bakr came to the door of Fatima in the midday sun and said: ‘I shall not leave from here as long as the daughter of Rasool-Allah remains displeased with me. Ali came to Fatima and giving her an oath urged her to become pleased. Then she became pleased (with Abu Bakr).”
Shia records also confirm that Fatima (رضّى الله عنها) became pleased with Abu Bakr (رضّى الله عنه). The Shia author of Hujjaajus Saalikeen states:
“Verily, when Abu Bakr saw that Fatima was annoyed with him, shunned him and did not speak to him after this on the issue of Fadak, he was much aggrieved on account of this. He resolved to please her. He went to her and said: ‘Oh daughter of Rasool-Allah! You have spoken the truth in what you have claimed, but I saw Rasool-Allah distributing it (i.e. the income of Fadak). He would give it to the Fuqaraa, Masaakeen and wayfarers after he gave your expenses and expenses of the workers.’
She then said: ‘Do with it as my father, Rasool-Allah had done.’ Abu Bakr said: ‘I take an oath by Allah for you! It is incumbent on me to do with it what your father used do with it.’ Fatima said: ‘ By Allah! You should most certainly do so.’ Abu Bakr said: ‘ By Allah! I shall most certainly do so.’ Fatima said: ‘O Allah! Be witness.’ Thus, she became pleased with this and she took a pledge from Abu Bakr. Abu Bakr would give them (Fatima and others of the Ahlel Bayt) expenses therefrom and distribute the balance to the Fuqaraa, Masaakeen and wayfarers.”
In the very reliable narration of Sunan Al-Bayhaqi, we read:
“When Fatima became ill, Abu Bakr came to her and asked for permission to enter. So Ali said, ‘O Fatima, this is Abu Bakr asking for permission to enter.’ She answerd, ‘Do you want me to give him permission?’ He said, ‘Yes.’ So she allowed him (to enter), and he came in seeking her pleasure, so he told her: ‘By Allah, I only left my home and property and my family seeking the pleasure of Allah and His Messenger and you, O Ahlel Bayt.’ So he talked to her until she was pleased with him.” (Sunan Al-Bayhaqi)
To answer your other points I can only point you to click on the following links and you will get all the answers if only you have an open heart.
Fadak, Part I: Shia Hadith Confirms Abu Bakr’s Justice (رضّى الله عنه)
Fadak, Part II: Why Didn’t Ali (رضّى الله عنه) Return Fadak?
Fadak, Part III: Ahlus Sunnah is Not Abandoning the Quran
Fadak, Part IV: Shia Women Do Not Inherit Land Anyways
Fadak, Part V: Fatima’s Anger (رضّى الله عنها)
Fadak, Part VI: Fadak Was Not a Gift
Ameen to that and brother I don’t want to get into the debate as I don’t really have the time and really had to force myself really hard even post this bit. The links that I have given you should suffice to all your queries and objections and as you rightly said and I quote : May Allah SWT help us all follow the right path.. Ameen
Re: some questions regarding Abu Bakr thread
So Ali 
is also not a jannati :nauz: since Bibi Fatima was also angry at him…
Well, there it is…One more added in the tabbara list…
Re: some questions regarding Abu Bakr thread
One thing Shias fail to answer when asked:
Ok, so he left us 2 things:
1) Qurand and 2) The Ahl-ul-Bait
Now, every Muslim knows about the Quran.
Now, what about the Ahlulbait? What do we do with them?
Re: some questions regarding Abu Bakr thread
Peace Texan_Dude
JazakAllah Khair for the post for the sake of this thread I'll post it here. I have ignored the rest of your post for the time being and inshaAllah we can come back to it later.
Volume 4, Book 53, Number 325: Narrated 'Aisha:
(mother of the believers) After the death of Allah 's Apostle Fatima the daughter of Allah's Apostle asked Abu Bakr As-Siddiq to give her, her share of inheritance from what Allah's Apostle had left of the Fai (i.e. booty gained without fighting) which Allah had given him. Abu Bakr said to her, "Allah's Apostle said, 'Our property will not be inherited, whatever we (i.e. prophets) leave is Sadaqa (to be used for charity)." Fatima, the daughter of Allah's Apostle got angry and stopped speaking to Abu Bakr, and continued assuming that attitude till she died. Fatima remained alive for six months after the death of Allah's Apostle.
She used to ask Abu Bakr for her share from the property of Allah's Apostle which he left at Khaibar, and Fadak, and his property at Medina (devoted for charity). Abu Bakr refused to give her that property and said, *"I will not leave anything Allah's Apostle used to do, because I am afraid that if I left something from the Prophet's tradition, then I would go astray." *(Later on) Umar gave the Prophet's property (of Sadaqa) at Medina to 'Ali and 'Abbas, but he withheld the properties of Khaibar and Fadak in his custody and said, "These two properties are the Sadaqa which Allah's Apostle used to use for his expenditures and urgent needs. Now their management is to be entrusted to the ruler." (Az-Zuhrl said, "They have been managed in this way till today.")
This hadith is narrated by Aisha (RA). Not all hadith are sayings of prophet Muhammad (SAW) Much of them are opinions of others. What do you think of her? It is her (RA) thinking that Fatimah (RA) became angry. However, the person against whom you lay blame to had no motive i.e. he did not benefit materially in any way for not giving up what was being asked for. He (RA) was denying that there was a share, and he did so based on the statement above in bold text. Now either you believe all of the hadith or you reject all of it. Why are you picking the parts you wish to believe to justify your position?
The essence of this hadith is not about people getting angry, rather it is about doing what the prophet (SAW) did. As a Sunnah he did not undertake an activity that he felt was out of normal procedures. He provided justification.
Also we can use another hadith where prophet Muhammad (SAW) advised "don't get angry", "don't get angry" and another where it is said that anger comes from Shaitan. Why if you believe this hadith do you not make these conclusions instead.
Rather, I choose to look at the statement "she became angry" as an interpretation of Aisha (RA) not as a gospel truth, how do we know what Fatimah (RA) had in her heart?
This hadith may be authentic as far as it is muttawatir, but it is a gharib hadith in that it's meanings are not clear to deduce things from because opinion is surrounding the fact in the narration of the quote of Abu Bakr (RA).
If you note the hadith you have quoted is not the same as the one I asked for either it is only similar to it but it is not that hadith. The hadith I had asked for that is on that abubakr site reference you have given is not in the Sahih collection of Al-Bukhari ... is it?
lol another bunch of excuses just cause some one is having hard time swollowing the truth.... Even Bibi Ayesha could make out... Quran testifies that Alalh SWT want to make ahleybait pure... you just keep coming up with excuses just trying to go denial by coming up wiht baseless excuses now you are doubting Bibi Ayesha interpretation when facts are for your own books and yet quran talks about Prophet inheritance and yet you doubt Abu Bakr was right and nauzubillah Prophet's beloved daughter the mother of leader of heavens was wrong the lady for whom Prophet P.B.U.H said that whoever hurts her hurted Prophet. I went as far as quoting stuff from not shia but your own authentic sunni books I have had sunni friends who told me after Quran Bhukari.. is the most authentic book they believe and yet you wanna play ignorant so be so
Re: some questions regarding Abu Bakr thread
wow so now nauzubillah you are gonna accuse Prophet P.B.U.H. to be incorrect… as per the hadith Prophet P.B.U.H. said whoever makes Bibi Fatima Zehra angry made him angry and rather than using as guidance from Allah SWT you are accusing Prophet to be nauzubillah for being incorrect.. Mashallah may Prophet P.B.U.H.give you the reward for point out nauzubillah how incorrect he was.. Ameen
I would appreciate if rather than accusing Prophet you answer my question rather than making accusations… Incase you missed it let me ask it again in bold.. can you please answer the following question.. I wanna see how far you can go to deny the truth
Do I believe Faitmah (RA) had tendency to get angry on people for incorrect reasons?
Please answer the question , I don’t need you to point me out nazubillah to you Prophet was incorrect … Please answer Yes or No if thats not too much to ask
I think I already answer your question… incase you missed it let me quote it for you again…
**Brother I believe the fact that Bibi Fatima Zehra S.A. stood up against Abu Bakr has a lot more to do besides just the land… She used fadak to unveil some big faces… Personally to me it shows how after the death of Prophet P.B.U.H. some people left the funeral of Prophet to resolve the issue of khilafat and went to the extend and they didn’t refraine from hurting the Prophet P.B.U.H… if you dig more into the issue you’ll see a contradiction between quran and hadith. Quran has the following ayat of Prophets leaving inheritance…
“And Solomon (Sulaymaan) inherited from David.” (Quran 27:16)
“(Zakariya prayed to Allah by saying)… Grant me a son from yourself, who inherits from me and inherit from the children of Jacob, and make him, O’ my Lord, the one with whom you are well-pleased.” (Quran 19:5-6).
Whereas Abu Bakr used a hadith that contradicted quran and implied that Prophet don’t leave inheritance and this goes back to the argument which I tried to make in the begining of the thread… where I mentioned the following hadith of Prophet
“Zayd said: ‘O brother, by God, I have become aged and old and I have forgotten some of what I used to remember from the Messenger of Allah , upon whom be Allah’s peace and benedictions. So accept what I narrate to you and as to what I don’t, trouble me not regarding it.’ Then he said: ‘One day the Messenger of Allah , upon whom be Allah’s peace and benedictions, addressed us near a pond called Khumm between Makkah and Madinah. He praised God and extolled Him and preached and reminded (us). Then he said, “Lo, O people, I am only a human being and I am about to respond to the messenger of my Lord *. I am leaving behind two precious things (thaqalayn) among you. The first of the two is the Book of Allah. In it is guidance and light. So get hold of the Book of Allah and adhere to it.” Then he urged and motivated (us) regarding the Book of Allah . Then he said, “And my Ahl alBayt (family). I urge you to remember God regarding my Ahl alBayt. I urge you to remember God regarding my Ahl alBayt. I urge you to remember God regarding my Ahl alBayt”’” …
(Sahih Muslim, part 7, Kitab fada’il alSahabah [Maktabat wa Matbaat Muhammad Ali Subayh wa Awladuhu: Cairo] pp. 122-123.)
and we all know Ahleybait has alwayz been there to defend islam… if it was kerbala, khyber. Imam Jaffar-e-Sadiq AS grandson of Imam Hussain A.S. was the teacher of 2 sunni Imams Imam Hanafia and Imam Malid… and yet some people chose to accept Imam Hanafia and Imam Malik as there Imams rather than their teacher who was from Ahley bait…even Imam Mahdi is going to be from Ahley bait … even quran talks about the purity of Ahleybait.
A contradicting hadith to this talks about Prophet P.B.U.H. leaving behind quran and sunnah… which makes me wonder… that quran has the following verse
“Today I have perfected your religion and completed my favour upon you, and I was satisfied that Islam be your religion.” (Qur’an 5:3)
This raises the question if Islam was perfect during the time of Prophet P.B.U.H. than why would he ask people to follow sunnah and not mention a source of sunnah… most of the sunnah and hadith books were compiled after the death of Prophet and this raises an issue of correct and dhaeef hadith… gupshup is a prefect example where people pick and choose hadith of their interest …**
i would recommend you refer to a few books for references/
Check out the translation at the random site I searched at
http://quran.com/article42.html
Nowwhere did you jump to this conclusion from… Read the highlighted part of this ayat again and please explain how did you drive to this conclusion… I just don’t get it… I hope you are not trying to come up with excuses just to ignore the facts…t please and think before you make such comments…
And stay quietly in your houses, and make not a dazzling display, like that of the former Times of Ignorance; and establish regular Prayer, and give regular Charity; and obey Allah and His Messenger.** And Allah only wishes to remove all abomination from you, ye members of the Family, and to make you pure and spotless.**33:33]
Please explain where did you get in order to part…
Astagfiruallah… you have more knoweldge of interpretation of quran compare to Bibi Fatima Zehra S.A… and Prophet gave the hadith of people offending Bibi Fatima Zehra SA would offend him for no reason.. when Bibi nauzubillah didn’t know the intepretation of quran than Allama Pysah sahab. Quran talked about purity of Ahleybait… where it talked about Allah SWT wishes to make them pure… yet nauzubillah they couldn’t interpret quran or nauzubillah argued for the wrong reason. The grandson of Bibi Fatima Zehra SA had enough knowledge that Imam Hanafi and Malik were their students and yet they couldnt interpret quran or hadith and nazubilah stood up for wrong reasons … Subhanllah Allama sahib… You sure are doing a good job enlightening us all…
Didn’t mean to offend anyone… May Allah SWT help us all follow the right path… Ameen*
Re: some questions regarding Abu Bakr thread
^ forget about teh people here, just worry about offending the Prophet (saw) by slinging mud at his best companion....
the companion who stood beside him (saw) all his life and was honoured to lay beside him even after his death....
Re: some questions regarding Abu Bakr thread
^ forget about teh people here, just worry about offending the Prophet (saw) by slinging mud at his best companion.... the companion who stood beside him (saw) all his life and was honoured to lay beside him even after his death....
Buddy I am not mud slinging anybody.... I pointed out 2 narrations of Sahih Bukhari and which shows who made ..... talking about death... how unfortunate he didn't attend the Prophet funeral or his daughter after his Prohpet's eyes closed......... and reached to the extend where he offended Prophet as per Sahih Bukhari narrations.....
I don't want to point fingers at aynbody but would like to share another hadith of Sahih Bukhari, which warns about deeds of some companions after the death of Prophet P.B.U.H.
*Volume 8, Book 76, Number 585: *
Narrated Abu Hazim from Sahl bin Sa'd:
The Prophet said, "I am your predecessor (forerunner) at the Lake-Fount, and whoever will pass by there, he will drink from it and whoever will drink from it, he will never be thirsty. There will come to me some people whom I will recognize, and they will recognize me, but a barrier will be placed between me and them." Abu Hazim added: An-Nu'man bin Abi 'Aiyash, on hearing me, said. "Did you hear this from Sahl?" I said, "Yes." He said, " I bear witness that I heard Abu Said Al-Khudri saying the same, adding that the Prophet said: 'I will say: They are of me (i.e. my followers). It will be said, 'You do not know what they innovated (new things) in the religion after you left'. I will say, 'Far removed, far removed (from mercy), those who changed (their religion) after me." Abu Huraira narrated that the Prophet said, "On the Day of Resurrection a group of companions will come to me, but will be driven away from the Lake-Fount, and I will say, 'O Lord (those are) my companions!' It will be said, 'You have no knowledge as to what they innovated after you left; they turned apostate as renegades (reverted from Islam)."
Re: some questions regarding Abu Bakr thread
^ is this hadith about his companions or about his followers (ummati)????
e.g. those who call themselves followers of Muhammad (saw) but do shirk with Allah, and do things which r opposite of his sunnah....
Re: some questions regarding Abu Bakr thread
i had decided to not post in this thread as i usually don’t post in such threads but i didn’t know wot the word infallible meant so i googled it and this is wot wikipedia gave me:
In common speech
When a statement, teaching, or book is called infallible, this can mean any of the following:
It is something that is certainly true
It is something that can be safely relied on
what the pope says is true
When a person is called infallible, this can mean any of the following:
Some statements or teachings made by this person can be relied on to be certainly true
All statements or teachings made by this person can be relied on to be certainly true
All information believed by this person is true
This person is free from flaws or defects, especially of a moral nature
These definitions differ widely. In common speech, infallibility can refer to a person (or a group of persons), to an act of teaching by these persons, or to the information being taught.
Furthermore, infallibility can refer to the absence of error or to the inability to err. Although these are similar, they are philosophically distinct categories. For example, it is theoretically possible for a person to live their entire life without ever uttering a false sentence, even though they had the ability to err.
Infallibility is sometimes used to refer to someone’s ability to learn something with certainty. For example, a careful researcher might study a hundred books, each of which contains a few errors, and after carefully judging the statements in these books might deduce the complete, error-free truth. This is referred to as learning infallibly or knowing infallibly. However, this meaning is rarely used.
** Islamic Beliefs**
Universal teachings
In Islamic theology, the widely held belief is that the prophets of Allah were infallible in the sense that all statements or teachings made by them can be relied on to be certainly true and all information believed by them is also true. Islam also teaches that the Qur’an is an infallible text, one that is certainly true and is something that can be safely relied on.
Additional Shi’a teachings
In Shi’a theology, the belief is that the Ahl al-Bayt, including Muhammad, his daughter Fatima Zahra and Shi’a Imams are all infallible. It is believed that they are infallible in the sense that all statements or teachings made by them can be relied on to be certainly true, that all information believed by themselves is true, and that they have complete knowledge about right and wrong and never intend to disobey God , in a sense, perfect creation. It is also held by Shi’as that there were 124,000 Prophets, beginning with Adam and ending with Mohammad - with all, including the latter, being infallible in the same sense as the Ahl al-Bayt.
seems to me that the word can be used at least in reference to prophets and especially the Holy Prophet (pbuh).
Re: some questions regarding Abu Bakr thread
[quote]
lol... dude its amazing to see excuses people come up with just to ignore the truth and facts... buddy... what does the fact that his son stood by Hazrat Ali A.S..... has to do with Abu Bakr.... didn't her daughter came against Hazrat Ali A.S in jamal.... while his son was with Hazrat Ali... how do u explain your so called dad and son ideology in the light of this fact.. nice try though.....
[/quote]
Dude, are you shia if you not mind me asking?
Secondly, do you even know why abu bakr's daughter ended up fighting Ali [raz]? It was because Ali [raz] hadn't prosecuted the killers of Usman {raz} and I believe some of them were his supporters / in the army.
Re: some questions regarding Abu Bakr thread
Are you trying to say shias are ahle-bayt?
Please tell me how come pakistanis, indians or the persians [not even arab] are ahle-bayt? 
**
Re: some questions regarding Abu Bakr thread
firstly there is no way to prove this allegation …
secondly this would mean by default that ameer ul momineen Ali was responsible for uthman’s murder [as he was allegedly shielding his killers]…can you make this allegation?
thirdly assuming this was all true …EVEN THEN it is no business of women to indulge in politics and war and esp. not the wives of the Prophet[saw]
fourthly she was not of uthman’s tribe so her claim to take revenge was even more weak than that of muawiyah [which made sense atleast by the rules of the days of jahiliyyah]
texan_dude first get your defination of the family of the prophet clear before you argue any further, banu abdul muttalib were all included in this
that includes abbas b abdul muttalib [ra] and his progeny
and u say you only commemorate the deaths of Ahlulbayt with majlis …was Imam Khomeni also from them?
http://www.az-zahraa.org/node/316
so why not remember the son of abu bakr[ra] once a year ?
thirdly your comparison
was extremely distasteful to say the least …you dont know how many great people you have brought to the level of yazid by this comparison …this might be greeted by a wave of applause in a “majlis” but is very far from the historical truth
Re: some questions regarding Abu Bakr thread
Peace chacha_Ghalib
Thank you for your definition with which I totally agree. Words do have a context however, the original discussion started with PyariCgudia making a statement and then she was chastised for it, by sister Lusi. The manner it was intended was however according to your 'rarely used ’ basis, if it wasn’t then the discussion I had with sister Lusi would have uncovered that. Please read through our discussion again and see again that if the term infallible was being used to mean merely ‘trustworthy’ then the reaction that was given against sister PyariCgudia’s post is reduced to nothing. It can only have been meant with zeal, the only meaning extractable from it would be that prophet Muhammad (SAW) is being seen as totally faultless. It was this that I disputed to and if I was wrong in my assertion then sister Lusi would have clarified that she meant such and such, so your dictionary search has been a useful education but of no real relevance to our discourse.
Re: some questions regarding Abu Bakr thread
[quote]
secondly this would mean by default that ameer ul momineen Ali was responsible for uthman's murder [as he was allegedly shielding his killers].....can you make this allegation?
[/quote]
It isn't me but history that has made that allegation. C'mon bhai, all respect aside, if someone is wrong we should admit it. The point is that even if they were not active in Ali's [raz] army, he didn't make an active effort to capture them.
The point is that Umar [raz] and even Ali [raz] were killed by non-muslims and though it doesn't make their deaths less than Usman [raz] but politically, it was a suicide since MUSLIMS made the Khilafah and it set a bad example of how to deal in case of conflicts.
[quote]
thirdly assuming this was all true ...EVEN THEN it is no business of women to indulge in politics and war and esp. not the wives of the Prophet[saw]
[/quote]
That is a very blanket statement to make about women but MAYBE you are right about her being the wife of the Prophet and all.
NEXT
[quote]
fourthly she was not of uthman's tribe so her claim to take revenge was even more weak than that of muawiyah [which made sense atleast by the rules of the days of jahiliyyah]
[/quote]
That is such a dumb point that I will not even try to talk about it. Going by this argument, do you mean to say that Hassan and Hussain [raz] fought yazeed because of tribal rivalry NOT because of moral and ethical values?
Re: some questions regarding Abu Bakr thread
sorry but get your screws tight…
Re: some questions regarding Abu Bakr thread
sorry but get your screws tight...
Kiyun aap screw ka business karte / karti hain?