Solution to problems in South East Asia

Society Pakistan & World Affairs
41

No one has said it is ok to have mass graves !!!! If there have been violation by Indain security forces they should be investigated and should be tried. As has happened in past, if you have done the crime you do the time.

But then we have to address the issue as to why these security forces are there in the first place.

The reason for that is that there are terror groups which operate from Pakistani soil . This needs to be stopped, if peace has to previal in the region. Infact Pakistan has made a solemn pledge to stop these terror groups and if it had done that in the first place, we would have not been in this situation to begin with !!!!

42

Well there are KASHMIRIS who want to liberate Indian Occupied Kashmir. So talk to them and not to Pakistan. Anyhow does this make any sens?

Kashmir has the highest soldier-to-civilian ratio of any region in the world. When the insurgency began in 1989, there were 36,000 Indian troops. Today, there are 600,000 in a state with a population of roughly 10 million.

I mean anyone with a clear mind cannot condone this....can you justify this? :)

Live Updates of Azadi March
43

Re: Solution to problems in South East Asia

HH - you continue to skirt the question about cross border terrorism which is what necessitates the troops in Kashmir. When are you going to address that?

Are you condoning attacks on innocent civilians, women and children by terrorists from across the border?

Chat Party in Cafe
44

Re: Solution to problems in South East Asia

My post seems to have disappeared. I stated previously that the nation states shall implement the resolutions. It would be a pretty obvious conclusion considering you have been avoiding to accept that for the past few months.

Good to finally accept that your comments regarding that paragraph are infact wrong.

45

wth are you talking about? Is this related to the UNSC / UNCIP discussion you were having with aam bandha? if so, why is it so difficult for you to understand that the representatives are appointed by the respective nation states? or do you think anyone can just walk into the UN building claiming to represent their country?

you should learn some basic facts about United Nations before embarassing yourself any further.

46

Re: Solution to problems in South East Asia

Abay dumbass. The United Nations Representative for India and Pakistan is the UN staff member who is sent by the UNSG to represent the UN to India and Pakistan.

The Permanent Representative of Pakistan to the United Nations or the Permanent Representative of India to the United Nations are the official titles of Ambassdors from the member states to the UN GA in New York.

****ing idiot.

Now re-read the post and you will realise why Aam Bandha has been for the past 3 months avoiding answering my one and only question.

Kon Kon
47

Re: Solution to problems in South East Asia

^ don’t play with words. do you even read basic documents? here you go blowhard:

Kashmir, UN Security Council Resolution 39

Resolution 39 (1948)
Submitted by the Representative of Belgium and adopted by the Security
Council at its 230th meeting he’d on 20 January, 1948.
(Document No. S/654, dated the 20th January, 1948).

THE SECURITY COUNCIL

Considering that it may investigate any dispute or any situation which might, by its continuance,
endanger the maintenance of international peace and security, and that, in the existing state of affairs
between India and Pakistan, such an investigation is a matter of urgency. Adopts the following
resolution:

[A] A Commission of the Security Council is hereby established, composed of representatives of
three Members of the United Nations, one to be selected by India, one to be selected by Pakistan,
and the third to be designated by the two so selected. Each representative on the Commission shall
be entitled to select his alternates and assistants.

** The Commission shall proceed to the spot as quickly as possible. It shall act under the authority
of the Security Council and in accordance with the directions it may receive from it. It shall keep the
Security Council currently informed of its activities and of the development of the situation. It shall
report to the Security Council regularly, submitting its conclusions and proposals.

[C] The Commission is invested with a dual function;

(1) to investigate the facts pursuant to Article 34 of the Charter of the United Nations;
(2) to exercise, without interrupting the work of the Security Council, any mediatory influence
likely to smooth away difficulties, to carry out the directions given to it by the Security
Council; and to report how far the advice and directions, if any, of the Security Council, have
been carried out.

[D] The Commission shall perform the functions described in Clause C:

(1) in regard to the situation in the Jammu and Kashmir State set out in the letter of the
Representative of India addressed to the President of the Security Council, dated 1 January
1948, and in the letter from the Minister of Foreign Affairs of Pakistan addressed to the
Secretary-General, dated 15 January 1948; and
(2) in regard to other situations set out in the letter from the Minister of Foreign Affairs of
Pakistan addressed to the Secretary-General, dated 15 January 1948, when she Security
Council so directs.

[E] The Commission shall take its decision by majority vote. It shall determine its own procedure. It
may allocate among its members, alternate members, their assistants, and its personnel such duties as
may have to be fulfilled for the realisation of its mission and the reaching of its conclusions.

[F] The Commission, its members, alternate members, their assistants, and its personnel, shall be
entitled to journey, separately or together, wherever the necessities of their task may require, and, in
particular within those territories which are the theatre of the events of which the Security Council is
seized.

[G] The Secretary-General shall furnish the Commission with such personnel and assistance as it
may consider necessary.

The Security Council voted on this Resolution on 20-1-1948 with the following result:
In favour: Argentina, Belgium, Canada, China, Colombia, France, Syria, U.K., and U.S.A.
Against: None
Abstaining: Ukrainian S.S.R. and U.S.S.R.

Now don’t start yet another long drawn stupid argument and embarass yourself

48

Baby i will teach you how to read:

European Parliament resolution on Mass Graves in Indian-Administered Kashmir

The European Parliament,

  • having regard to the recommendations of the ad hoc delegation of the European Parliament, following its visits to Kashmir from 8 to 11 December 2003 and from 20 to 24 June 2004,

  • having regard to its Annual Report on Human Rights in the World 2005 and the EU’s policy on the matter of 18 May 2006,

  • having regard to its report on the EU’s economic and trade relations with India of 28 September 2006,

  • having regard to its report on Kashmir: present situation and future prospects of 24 May 2007,

  • having regard to Rule 115(5) of its Rules of Procedure,

A. whereas hundreds of unidentified graves have been discovered since 2006 in Jammu and Kashmir and whereas at least 940 persons have reportedly been found in 18 villages in Uri district alone,

B. whereas the Srinagar-based Association of the Parents of Disappeared Persons (APDP) issued a report on 29 March 2008 indicating the existence of multiple graves in localities which, because of their proximity of the Line of Control with Pakistan, are not accessible without the specific permission of the security forces,

C. whereas the grave sites are believed to contain the remains of victims of unlawful killings, enforced disappearances, torture and other abuses which have occurred in the context of armed conflict persisting in Jammu and Kashmir since 1989,

D. whereas estimates on numbers of persons having gone missing since 1989 vary greatly between associations of families of victims speaking of more than 8000 and the Indian central and state authorities claiming less than 4000,

E. whereas a state police report of 2006 confirmed the deaths in custody of 331 persons and 111 enforced disappearances since 1989,

F. whereas human rights violations committed by the armed forces of India continue in an atmosphere of impunity despite the government of India’s commitment in September 2005 not to tolerate human rights violations in Jammu and Kashmir any longer,

G. whereas Parvez Imroz, an award-winning human rights lawyer, president of the Jammu and Kashmir Coalition of Civil Society and founder of the Association of Parents of Disappeared Persons, survived an armed attack on June 30 in Srinagar by alleged security forces’ members and whereas other members of the International Tribunal on Human Rights and Justice in Kashmir, which is being facilitated by the Association of the Parents of Disappeared Persons (APDP), have reportedly been harassed,

  1. Strongly condemns the unlawful killings, enforced disappearances, torture, rape and other human rights abuses which have occurred in Jammu and Kashmir since the beginning of the armed conflict in 1989;

  2. Expresses its concern for the safety of Pervez Imroz and other human rights activists who are investigating the unmarked graves and other allegations of human rights abuses in Jammu and Kashmir and calls on the Indian authorities to ensure their protection and allow them to operate without fear of harassment and violence;

  3. Urges the authorities to conduct a prompt and impartial investigation into the attack on Imroz Pervez, to make the results public and to bring the responsible to justice;

  4. Calls on the Government of India to urgently ensure independent and impartial investigations into all suspected sites of mass graves in Jammu and Kashmir and as an immediate first step to secure the grave sites in order to preserve the evidence;

  5. Calls on the Commission to offer financial and technical support to the Indian Government in the context of the Stability Instrument for such an inquiry;

  6. Re-iterates its call on the Indian government and the state authorities to investigate all allegations of enforced disappearances; urges to assign a civilian prosecutor’s office with the jurisdiction for all cases in which military, security or law enforcement agents are suspected of being involved, and to create a single public database of all persons who have gone missing and of all bodies which have been recovered;

  7. Calls on the state authorities to ensure that all detentions meet minimum requirements of international legal standards, proper treatment, registration and prosecution, prompt access to family members, lawyers and independent courts, as well as accountability for any violation of such procedures;

  8. Insists that victims of unlawful killings, enforced disappearances, torture and rape or their families be granted full reparation;

  9. Calls on the Indian Government to ratify and implement the UN Convention for the Protection of All Persons from Enforced Disappearance without reservations, including declarations pursuant to Articles 31 and 32 to recognize the competence of the Committee on enforced Disappearances, and to ratify the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court;

  10. Calls on the Indian Government to grant access to Jammu and Kashmir for the UN Special Rapporteurs under the terms of reference of the UN Special Procedures, notably the Special Rapporteur on Torture, on Extrajudicial, Summary or Arbitrary Executions and the UN Working Group on Enforced or Voluntary Disappearances;

  11. Re-iterates the call on the Lok Sabha to amend the Human Rights Protection Act in order to allow the National Human Rights Commission to investigate independently allegations of abuse by members of the armed forces;

  12. Instructs its President to forward this resolution to the Council, the Commission, the Government and Parliament of India, the Government and Parliament of the State of Jammu and Kashmir and the UN Secretary-General.

MOTION FOR A RESOLUTION on Mass Graves in Indian-Administered Kashmir - B6-0359/2008

49

Re: Solution to problems in South East Asia

^ what has this to do with my post? UN and EU are two completely different entities. India is a member of UN, not EU. Same holds of Pakistan as well.

50

hey jalaludin
what is the history behind your name?
are u a muslim? kashmiri?

Time Pass*~*SALAM SiTam BER ~*~
51

what do you mean history behind my name? there is no history or you asking for my personal history?

Now, how many jews or hindus have you come across called Jalaluddin?

And this is your way of contributing to solutions in South Asia? asking people's origins geneology and ethnicity if their opinions don't conform to your expectations?

52

Well you know sometimes when you ask someone the origin of something then alot is clearified.

I simple cannot understand that a muslim (or any other human being) condoning what is happening in Indian Occupied Kashmir.

I simple cannot understand that a muslim (or any other human being) denying the hundreds of massgraves found in Indian Occupied Kashmir and EU condemning India for that but Muslim not condemning it.

I simple cannot understand that a muslim (or any other human being) not condemning the rapes of innocent Kashmiri women in Indian Occupied Kashmir.

I simple cannot understand that a muslim (or any other human being) not allowing fellow Muslim brothers fighting for the freedom fo their homeland.

53

I cannot make up my mind about you. You write passionately so I want to think you are a honest person but then in the other threads you show show much demagoguery that I hate it!

any, coming back to this.

Look at your own post here. You write 4 times "a muslim (or any other human being)"....

yet you keep asking how a muslim can speak in favor of India.

What I am trying to tell you, I guess to summarize, is two things:

1) there are, what, some 150+ million muslims in India. DO you think if there are 150+ million people in a country that they cannot rise up for their rights if they are tryly as downtrodden as you guys assume? That is why I keep trying to tell you guys - don't take evey 3rd world type of problem and try to spin it as a muslim oppression problem.

2) Do not also assume that we care as much about religion in India as some of you guys do. If you ask a Saudi guy, he will say Pakistanis are not true muslims because of this that etc. So do you then start adopting Saudi ways? Same way, because some of you tell us something doesn't mean we have to start believing that

54

Well its an enlightment commign from you with all due respect that you think of me like that: I am a honest person and i do not take sides. If Pakistan does things that are wrong then i do condemn it not like you mr. Jalaudin which makes me sad.

But you really do not get my point when you say: "yet you keep asking how a muslim can speak in favor of India."

Arey bhai :) I only said that the Muslims are being discrimianted and even Indian government admits that. And you saying that you are a Muslim are in totally denial of this.

And about Kashmir forget Muslims even non Muslims are condemning GRAVE humanrights violations and you are zipping your lips (with all due respect).

Have guts yaar dare to speak out. If you love India then LOVE IT who care its your country but do have guts to speak out against human rights violations and against discrimination of anyone anywhere.

What do you mean you don't care as much about religion??? Hello are u awake? India has about more then 150 million Muslims how many of them you know?
Do not generalise mate. I know many Muslims living in India and i hear first hand from them how worst the situation is of Muslims in India. And i am talking about Indian Muslims who like India.

55

You had the same understanding before i corrected you :D

Strange you shoud say that .... it has been you who has been playing this verbal gymanstics on the question of solution to Kashmir problem .... Here i will itemize this issue for you .....

1) The UN security council's solution to Kashmir problem is the implementation of UNCIP resolutions .... this is clear as day if you care to read the UNSC resolutions .....
2) The UNCIP resolutions call for COMPLETE withdrawl of Pakistani forces in Jammu & Kashmir (that includes Azad J&K , Northern Areas or any such area that was part ofr teh princely state of Jammu & Kashmir).
3)Once this is communicated by UN security council to India, then the process of troop "REDUCTION" from India is to start .....

And that is the path as enviaged in the UNSC resolutions ..... though UNSC now wants India and Pakistan to settle all disputes , including Kashmir, by talks. But we will leave that aside for the time being, let us talk about the situation that you talk about .... plebiscite in J&K !!!!!!

56

Plebiscite Now :) !!

The King maker - Malik Riaz
The King maker - Malik Riaz
57

Re: Solution to problems in South East Asia

Happyheart - au contraire, you're missing my point as well.

If you're trying to tell me that you know more Indians that I do, I won't even bother debating - it is just ridiculous.

So yeah, I am a lot more representative of and knowledgeable about true conditions; unlike politicians I do not needs votes, so can speak the truth.

I hate playing race card or religion care and it is equally despicable which side plays it.

oh btw, I saw that last post 'plebiscite now' - no. you have to restore original conditions before plebiscite. What that means is that Pakistan has to remove all troops and terrorists out of all parts of Kashmir; then we will govern the region for 50 years to restore pre-Pak-invasion conditions. Then plebiscite.

Time Pass*~*SALAM SiTam BER ~*~
58

Yeah and you re getting all my points right? :)
Well well now suddenly u cannot debate how interesting. I have been trying to debate wtih you so many day eventhough i knew what u are uttering is totally nonsense and now u are boasting about that you know more Indians then me wow. U seem to know alot about me mate. Even how many Indians i know. Anyhow i was talking about Indian Muslims.

Well at least u admit that your Indian poilitcians do not speak the truth but then why are u following their agenda? Why are u not willing to talk about giving the Kahsmiris the Freedom they want?

Again fingerpointing :) nah nah nah that won't help you mate.
Azad Kashmir is Free u did not know that? No?
Well sure u will find rotten apples who are financed by RAW (sadly, i personally know couple of them) they will tell lies.

So rather concentrate on the following:

First pull back your 600 000 troops then we talk.
First do investigation into massgraves then we talk.
First stop terrorising Kashmiris in indian occupied kashmir then we talk.
First stop raping Kashmiri women then we talk.

And as i told you Freedom of Kashmiris is only a matter of time :) i am not worried about that
i am only concerned with human rights violations committed by Indian army in Indian occupied Kashmir.

Catastrophic rain & flood across Punjab - all rain threads merged
Catastrophic rain & flood across Punjab - all rain threads merged
59

Re: Solution to problems in South East Asia

^ HH - you have again practiced demagoguery and with such a person it is impossible to discuss anything because they are not truthful and rational. Just know that Kashmir is getting better and better with India. The cros-border terrorism has been successfully brought under control with the 'help' of Pak govt, the local youth of Kashmir are being given accelearated educational avenues, mew roads and railways and other capital projects are up and the J&K legislature is beginning to function more effectively as well in dealing their dual role.

60

You know what is irrational and nonsense?
When you say: "Kashmir is getting better and better with India", whilst everyday
people are suffering in Indian Occupied Kashmir and they are victim of

occupation by 600 000 indian soldiers who have bloods of thousands of Kashmiris on their hand.

Again you fail to understand that the railway will be used to transport military hardware i really pity your simplicity.