So what exactly was Mirza?

Society Religion & Philosophy
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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Lajawab: *
Yep...He was the Mahdi...But alas, he died before he could fulfill the prophecy of Muslim dominion over all...Oh well...Maybe in his reicarnation...After all, what is reincarnation to someone who is a prophet, a messiah and the mahdi all rolled into one...Maybe he can come back next time as a god...:)
[/QUOTE]

For you, here is what FUTURE OF AHMADIYYAT will be in Promised Messiah's on words:

"O mankind! hearken, this is the prophecy of God Who made the Heavens and the Earth. He will spread this Movement in all the countries and will give it supremacy over all through reason and arguments. Remember, no one will descend from heaven. All our opponents who are living at present will die and not one of them will see Jesus, son of Mary, descend from the sky and then their children who survive them will also pass away and none of them will see Jesus, son of Mary, coming down from the heaven. Generations of their posterity will also perish and they too will not see the son of Mary descending from heaven. Then God will create restlessness in their hearts; that the day of the glory of the Cross had passed away and the world had taken another turn but Jesus, son of Mary, had still not come down from the sky. Then all the wise people will discard this belief and the third century from today will not have completed when all those who had been waiting for Jesus, both Muslims and Christians will despair of his coming and entertaining misgivings shall give up their belief and there will be only one Faith in the world and one preceptor. I came only to sow the seed. That seed has been sown by my hands. It will now grow and blossom forth and none dare retard its growth."

(The Promised Messiah in Tazkira-tush-Shahadatain)

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And you guys saying he was not a prophet but a promised messiah only.
Check out this on your own website.
[thumb=B]mga.JPG[/thumb]

Still not cleared whether he was prophet, promissed messiah or what.

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[quote]
If you read the statement, Promised Massiah has clearly stated that Mahduviat means that "israar e deen" or deeper meanings will be revealed to him by divine guidence.. not the A, B, C or quranic language..

[/quote]

Destino ok since Israre Deen was Mahdaviyat...why did Mirza Sahib in the begining of the page mention that Prophet SAW got his ZAHIRI Ilm from Allah....He studied nothing from no one....Meaning not even how to read arabic.....and then he goes on saying "This is the Mehdaviyat that has been given to me on the MINHAJ of Prophet SAW"....
meaning what.....???
Look at your claims, ISRARE DEEN is mentioned in only one line of that page....where as Mirza Sahib apart from saying in two places that he has never been a student of any one in QURAN (not tafseer and not ISRARE DEEN), is quoting the fact that Prophet SAW was not a sutdent of any one, not even in ZAHIRI ILM (not ISRARE DEEN) and upon this MINHAJ he was given Mahdaviyat......

Does that not open your eyes...???
So many times he is saying the same thing over and over in so many different ways...

  1. He is comparing himself with some one that has never had a teacher in his life.

  2. He posses an open challenge to any one to prove that he has had a single lesson in Quran.

  3. He talks about the coming Mehdi (which is him), saying the coming one will not have a teacher in Quran.

Three places and still you don't understand.

[quote]
The miracle of Prophet Muhammad was complete and one of a kind..which can not be given to anyother human being.. It is the greatness of the Prophet .

[/quote]

Read the following by Mirza Sahib.......

"The Holy Prophet (saaw) had two births as a Prophet. In other words, we may say that it was promised that the Holy Prophet (saaw) would be born in the world once more (reincarnated) and this was fulfilled by the incarnation of the Promised Messiah and the Promised Mahdi".
(Tohfa-e-Golravia, Roohani Khazain vol. 17 p.249)

He in the same page goes on saying that the maulvis are NADAN because they are waiting for Jesus to come back when in actuality the return of Prophet SAW has been prophecized in the hadith which is fulfilled by the coming of Mehdi (Mirza Sahib)....

You tell me Mister Destino when some one comes back why do they lose their qualities...???
and please do not give me some other quote from Roohani Khazain saying that he was not the second advent of Prophet SAW......coz I have noticed one thing by now that Mirza Sahib changes his claims very frequently.....

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[quote]
p.s. thanks for acknowleging the fact that even i can make mistakes

[/quote]

Every one makes mistakes....According to Fateh Sahib Prophet SAW made mistakes....
Its just that when a mistake is so calculated and strategic, you have to wonder was it a mistake...???

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lo ji...............as usual........Qadiani phurrrrrrrrrrrrrrr hogaye :D

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Dont u read before when you post here something?? amazing.

The msg clearly says that Hz Masih Maood :as: is Prophet, Promised Messiah, Imam Mahdi, One person who should bring all human together under the ONE FLAG of ISLAM!

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[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by smooth_guy: *
And you guys saying he was not a prophet but a promised messiah only.
Check out this on your own website.
[thumb=B]mga.JPG[/thumb]

Still not cleared whether he was prophet, promissed messiah or what.
[/QUOTE]

READ my very first post of this section i have given you the answer if something dont go through your skull i cant help it. Try to re read it might help.

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I am going to re post the reply..

[quote]
Smooth guy. Here is the answer.

All the great religion of the worlds were waiting for a reformer. Budhest waiting for 2nd reincarnation fo Budha, Christian waitng for 2nd cmoing fo christ. Muslim waiting for Imam Mehdi, Jews still waiting for Christ, Hindus wating for Karishna. So lets see if all these people appear, literaly, where does the Khatmiyyet of Holy Prophet (saw) stand. How the world will get togather under one Banner. The solution to all of this is One man will appear who will have the qualities of all these combine in him. For a budhist he will be budha, for christain he will be christ for muslim he will be Imam mehdi like that.

So the claim of Hazret Mirza Ghulam Ahmad summries up in one Imam mehdi and the PROMISED one to reform the religion.
[/quote]

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So what is this then......??????????????????

**
"This humble self is neither a PROPHET nor a MESSENGER, rather only my Virtuous Prophet's LOWLY SERVANT and FOLLOWER…."
(Statement of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, Akhbar AlHakm Qadian No.23 vol. 5)**

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And oh BTW…no Muslim believes that Mehdi :as: will be prophet. He will be a reformer and a special Wali Allah with a given task. There will be no Wahi sent to him. He will be an Ummatti of Prophet :saw:

The liars are that shameless that they put the biggest lie on the earth on their website. koi hul nahi!

‘aur jis ko Allah hidayat ki taufeeq na de usko koi hidayat nahi desakta’

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I want to see the day when Muslim will accept this Mahdi, before giving him Fatwa of Kufr!, I mean Hz Isa :as: will be also coming down according to you guyz, and who knows how fast are Mullahs like Manzoor Chinyoti to call him Kafir, if he claim to be Masih and then Muslim too :hehe:.

Then how he will know, he is Mahdi?? :konfused:, or he will just come and will say I am Mahdi??

At least Hz Masih Maood :as: didnt claim HIMSELF to be Mahdi and Masih, ONLY after Allah(swt) told him!!

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quote:

If you read the statement, Promised Massiah has clearly stated that Mahduviat means that "israar e deen" or deeper meanings will be revealed to him by divine guidence.. not the A, B, C or quranic language..

Destino ok since Israre Deen was Mahdaviyat...why did Mirza Sahib in the begining of the page mention that Prophet SAW got his ZAHIRI Ilm from Allah....He studied nothing from no one....Meaning not even how to read arabic.....and then he goes on saying "This is the Mehdaviyat that has been given to me on the MINHAJ of Prophet SAW"....
meaning what.....???
Look at your claims, ISRARE DEEN is mentioned in only one line of that page....where as Mirza Sahib apart from saying in two places that he has never been a student of any one in QURAN (not tafseer and not ISRARE DEEN), is quoting the fact that Prophet SAW was not a sutdent of any one, not even in ZAHIRI ILM (not ISRARE DEEN) and upon this MINHAJ he was given Mahdaviyat......

Does that not open your eyes...???
So many times he is saying the same thing over and over in so many different ways...

  1. He is comparing himself with some one that has never had a teacher in his life.

  2. He posses an open challenge to any one to prove that he has had a single lesson in Quran.

  3. He talks about the coming Mehdi (which is him), saying the coming one will not have a teacher in Quran.

Three places and still you don't understand.

quote:

The miracle of Prophet Muhammad was complete and one of a kind..which can not be given to anyother human being.. It is the greatness of the Prophet .

Read the following by Mirza Sahib.......

"The Holy Prophet (saaw) had two births as a Prophet. In other words, we may say that it was promised that the Holy Prophet (saaw) would be born in the world once more (reincarnated) and this was fulfilled by the incarnation of the Promised Messiah and the Promised Mahdi".
(Tohfa-e-Golravia, Roohani Khazain vol. 17 p.249)

He in the same page goes on saying that the maulvis are NADAN because they are waiting for Jesus to come back when in actuality the return of Prophet SAW has been prophecized in the hadith which is fulfilled by the coming of Mehdi (Mirza Sahib)....

You tell me Mister Destino when some one comes back why do they lose their qualities...???
and please do not give me some other quote from Roohani Khazain saying that he was not the second advent of Prophet SAW......coz I have noticed one thing by now that Mirza Sahib changes his claims very frequently.....

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.. blaming non-ahmadis that they call ahmadis kafir just check urself first what u call non ahmadis.. I will quote this piece again.. please clarify if u dont believe in this one!

The Qadiani view of their leadership with Muslims was well summarised by their second caliph, Mirza Mahmud Ahmad:

“Our worship has been separated from the non-Ahmadis, we are prohibited from giving our daughters (in marriage) to them and we have been stopped from offering prayers for their dead. What is then left that we can do together? There are two kinds of ties: one religious and the other mundane. The greatest expression of the religious bond is in common worship and in matters mundane, these are the ties of family and marriage. But then both are forbidden (haram) to us. If you say that we are permitted to take their daughters (in marriage), then I would reply that we are allowed to marry the daughters of christians as well. If you say why do we salaam to non-Ahmadis, then the reply to this is that the Prophet (Muhammad) has said salaam to the Jews.. thus the Promised Messiah (Mirza Ghulam Ahmad) has separated us in all possible ways from the others; and there is no kind of relationship which is particular to Muslims and we are not forbidden from (entering) into that.” (Kalimatul Fasl by Mirza Basheer Ahmad in Review of Religions, vol.14, No. 3-4, p.159)

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Minhaj means in the similar way.. not exactly the same..
There is a very popular term used by some revolutionary Mullahs on “khilafat Minhaje nabuwwat”..Do they mean similar.. or exactly the same?? Do they intend to call their first Khalifa Abu Bakr (ra) and so on?? Mind you “khilafat minhajun Nabuwwat” are the words of a hadith.. and they mean that It will come back to muslims in the similar way.. and it will be based on teachings of Holy Prophet(saw) and the practice of Khilafat by the rightly guided caliphs.

So you mean that Promised Massiah (As) meant that he never learnt Arabic or URdu or Persian from anyone.. Right.. so do you also think that Prophet :saw: was not taught anything whatsoever before he was 40.. he never learnt how to communicate in pure arabic (for which special arrangments were made and he was sent to a village).. that he was never instructed in the use of different weapons and how to herd animals (they afterall can be called skills and knowledge).. It is true that he was UMMI when Quran was revealed to him.. And with this revelation of Quran Prophet :saw: was taught the best knowledge any human has ever recieved.. But he never wrote anything even after that.. thats a fact..

only in the matter of tafseer and israar e deen..

please add “hadith” and “tafseer” in this claim too.. and the next part of the sentence which mentions “mufassir” and “muhaddith”..

again missing the words “hadith” and “tafseer”..

open your eyes and read all the words…

By coming back of the Prophet :saw:, his teachings are meant.. On one hand you are waiting for Christ to come back, and we are refuting his physical return, on the other hand we are saying that the real message of islam is being brought back.. which you are refuting again… Why don’t you quote the whole passage from which the above sentences have been taken..

Mr. Perplexing,
Why do we need a Mahdi and Jesus???

75

^ and on the same page 149, Ruhani Khazain..

“and there is only one living Prophet in the world i.e. Muhammad :saw:.”

Which means that the teachings and message of holy Prophet :saw: is the only living message which will be enforced again by Mahdi and Massiah..

76

[quote]
Minhaj means in the similar way.. not exactly the same..
There is a very popular term used by some revolutionary Mullahs on "khilafat Minhaje nabuwwat".
[/quote]

*Good! Destino....Minhaj means similar/like. So lets play a little game....If I am poor and you say Destino's state is Mihaje Perplexing!!!
What would that mean....??? You know I would think that would mean that you are poor too,in Monetray terms not in intelligence or other way.
Mirza Sahib spends two senteces writing about how Muhammad SAW was an UMMI and then says MINHAJ, what would that mean...???

[quote]

Mind you "khilafat minhajun Nabuwwat" are the words of a hadith..

[/quote]

** Provide me a reference for that hadith.....**

*The revultionastic term was also used by your Mullah (Mirza Sahib)....

[quote]

quote:

1. He is comparing himself with some one that has never had a teacher in his life.

only in the matter of tafseer and israar e deen..

[/quote]

  • Show me where does he (Mirza Sahib) specify that....

[quote]

. He posses an open challenge to any one to prove that he has had a single lesson in Quran.

please add "hadith" and "tafseer" in this claim too.. and the next part of the sentence which mentions "mufassir" and "muhaddith"..

[/quote]

  • The words are added as you wished. Does that mean that the challenge has changed. Does it not still mean that not a single Lesson in Quran AND Hadith AND Tafseer.....???

[quote]

quote:

3. He talks about the coming Mehdi (which is him), saying the coming one will not have a teacher in Quran.

again missing the words "hadith" and "tafseer"..

[/quote]

  • Again the words Hadith and Tafseer are added. Does that mean the word Quran (not Tafseer-e-Quran) is omitted. Does it still not mean the coming one will not have a teacher in Quran and in addition to teacher in Tafseer and a teacher in Hadith.

[quote]

By coming back of the Prophet , his teachings are meant.. On one hand you are waiting for Christ to come back, and we are refuting his physical return, on the other hand we are saying that the real message of islam is being brought back.. which you are refuting again... Why don't you quote the whole passage from which the above sentences have been taken..

Mr. Perplexing,
Why do we need a Mahdi and Jesus????
[/quote]

Stick to the topic, which is not "The return of Jesus". Did he or did he not say that he was the second coming of Prophet SAW....if you wish I will quote more from his book on the same topic. No where in those sentences he makes that distinction of the teachings.
*
"I have said several times that according to the verse (of Holy Quran) 'wa akhareena minhum lamma yalhaqoo behim' as Burooz I am the same Prophet, the Khatamul Anbiyyah, and 20 years ago God named me Mohammed and Ahmad in Braheen-e-Ahmadiyya and declared me His Being.(Aik ghalti ka azala, Roohani Khazain vol. 18 p.212)
"
*

Go read the above mentioned page. Decide for your self what does he mean. he goes in extreme length to prove he is the same person. he even says that he(Mirza Sahib) has the same qualities in him as the Prophet SAW did. Now observe he says ALL QUALITIES not teachings. That would also mean the power of speaking comprehensively.

[quote]

The miracle of Prophet Muhammad was complete and one of a kind..which can not be given to anyother human being.. It is the greatness of the Prophet .

[/quote]

** Destino, do me a favor before you start answering any of the Questions.....clear your mind and think for a second that this is not a war between me and you. No one is goin to win this or lose. Actually I hope for your sake that I lose, if you do consider this a battle. If you do not see any of my points as valid, then I will not post anything after this on this issue.
**

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Get this…

[thumb=B]Ahmedi1.JPG[/thumb]

They are now putting RadhiAllahtalanhu at the end of their scholar’s names…So, who got the wahi this time that Allah :swt: is agreed with this gentleman…Another prophet?..:hehe:

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Who was he?

And who can be more unjust than he who invents a lie against Allah, or says:
'I have received inspiration,' whereas he is not inspired in anything; and who says, 'I will reveal the like of what Allah has revealed.' ...
The Holy Quran, Al-Anam, 6:93

There will arise thirty impostors in my Ummah and each one of them will pronounce to the world that he is a prophet, but I am the last in the line of the Prophets of God and no Prophet will come after me.
(Abu Dawood, Tirmizi)

Thus... he was a liar and an imposter. :)

I know some of you are angry and when truth hurts, you would want it bent. Sorry can't do. ;)

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Rangeela Gupy …jazakallah !!! you are the man :k:
I heard of this hadith but didn’t have exact wordings and reference.

Now the seal has placed by Prophet :saw: himself. Who can argue with him except the non-believers. And that what we have been telling Qadianiz to call themselves whatever they want, but stop using Islam’s label. Since you are going against the teachings of Prophet :saw: but the stubborn gets dirt in the hands at the end. And this is what happening here.

May Allah give all Ahmediz atleast one chance to renounce this dirty trick of Britishers. Ameen!

80

Assalam o ALikum once agian..

Well i have read many posts here by mr preplaxing and mr smooth guy.

Keep in mind one things. Knowing something is differnet then understanding something. For example lets for say in algebra. there is an equation and for that equation there is formula. Without using the formula you cant solve the problem.

Knowing a forluma and understanding the formula are two diffrent things. If you konw the formula and do not understand it , then that formula is no use unless you understand it.

Keeping this example in mind. Knowing Holy Quran and Hadith is differnet then Understanding of Holy Quran and Hadith. I am sure you will agree on this.

So when Hazret Sahib said NO one taught me Quran and hadith. He means that no one taught him the Understanding and Knowldage within Holy Quran and Hadith.

Your argument is he is wrong cuz he had teachers. Those teacher taught him how to read the Holy Quran. Reading Quran doesnt mean you understand Quran.
Now you look back in the history of islam how many tafaseer of Holy Quran have been written. Why are there so many tafaseer. Reason is not every body understand Holy Quran perfectly thats why they have tafaseer. marely lip service of Holy Qruan doesnt cut it. Why you people do not understand this, is it toooo hard to grasp.

If i ask among you people who are arguging or raising alligation against Hazret mirza sahib. How many know Holy Quran completely and Fully understand each and everything from Holy Quran, you may say that you know holy quran Nazra. You can recite you can also read the meaning of holy quran done in english or urdu. but knowing the translation of Holy Quran doesnt mean you fully understand it.

If that was the case that everyone understand the holy quran completely with its meaing and all then there shouldnt be any sects in islam.
One important feature of Mahdi was to do justice. This is the way to do justice that bring forth the right teaching of Quran and resolve all the issues of other sects the diffrences that they have through Quran and hadith.
So when Mirza sahib is saying no one taught him Quran and hadith. This is what he ment bout it. Only Allah taught him the real meaning of Quran and Haidht. No human did.

Hope you understand this if u dont i cant help it. Pray for your self truely if you pray.