Re: sindhis not happy with pakistan
Moon Saheb, to phir Pakistan kyun banaya?
May nay to nahee banaya! May to jab tha bhi nahee!
Re: sindhis not happy with pakistan
Well it does not mean I am against the creation of Pakistan. Pakistan would have been created but only for people originally living here.
Thats not true. There was no originally here ppl. Since Pakistans boarders where never defined and India took "best" of the places. Read history sir. Agar Indian Muslim movement migration ke liye na taras (fighting) thi, to Pakistan bhi naih baanta!
Re: sindhis not happy with pakistan
Thats not true. There was no originally here ppl. Since Pakistans boarders where never defined and India took "best" of the places. Read history sir. Agar Indian Muslim movement migration ke liye na taras (fighting) thi, to Pakistan bhi naih baanta!
But there were majority muslim provinces then.
Re: sindhis not happy with pakistan
Due to migration of Indian muslims, the sindhies feel that their country was occupied by aliens and that is the reason they are not happy today. Sindh may makar ayeen taliyar na khapan! Sindh may bihari na khapan!
Re: sindhis not happy with pakistan
But there were majority muslim provinces then.
And what about Luknow and Hyderabad, Alighar? Whats with them.
Re: sindhis not happy with pakistan
Due to migration of Indian muslims, the sindhies feel that their country was occupied by aliens and that is the reason they are not happy today. Sindh may makar ayeen taliyar na khapan! Sindh may bihari na khapan!
And Sindhis are non muslims? More over are Sindhis not Pakistanis?
IF they do think so, what would they have been thinking If they would have been part of India then?
Majority of Pakistanis think that Afghans have occupied our country and ruined It. Does that make us split Pakistan into Pathan, Pakhtun, etc land?
Re: sindhis not happy with pakistan
I think you are not getting my point and I am not getting yours! Sindh would have been a part of Pakistan with only few aliens then.
Re: sindhis not happy with pakistan
I think you are not getting my point and I am not getting yours! Sindh would have been a part of Pakistan with only few aliens then.
Which would have not changed the mindset of such sindhis. 1 Alien or 2, makes no difference for such kind of thinking.
Re: sindhis not happy with pakistan
Sultan bro! Feeling slighted, disenfranchised is something Bengalis always had. Just see their struggles with Hindu Bengalis over 100 years prior to Pakistan. Bengal was divided and united so many times that they lost count.
Second point! you say Bengalis had "Genuine grievances". Do you know of any grievances that are "Non-genuine", fake, made-up etc? I am sure not.
A grievance is just that! A grievance! If you have one, it would be a genuine one, and I can bet the bottom dollar on it.
However no grievance should ever drive you to commit anti-state terror. Because if you do, the state would come at you with all its might. It doesn't matter if that state is democratic, dictatorial, monarchy, or Khilafat. No state in the world at present or past would allow a section of its populace to rise up against the state.
Coming back to your point, Bengalis took only few months after their "liberation" to have Mega-Grievance against Awami League and especially against Sh. Mujib. And the result of such grievance was most shocking and most terrible.
Sh. Mujib, his sons, daughters, grandsons, grand daughters, chacha, Nana, phopha, khaloo, khala everyone related to the "founder of BDesh" was murdered nay crushed to pieces by none other than Bengalis.
So there you have it. Bengalis had grievances against the whole world including themselves. No one even god himself could address those "Genuine grievances".
Burqa, prior history of East Pakistan may be tumultuous but that does not change the fact that there were genuine problems which were not timely addressed by the Central govt. based in West Pakistan such as economic development, proper national discourse on the national identity as well as the representation of the Bengalis despite being about half the population of the United Pakistan. All this in addition to the embedded sense of arrogance and racism espoused by us towards the Bengalis. If one delves into the tumultuous history of the regions of Pakistan it would be perhaps quadruply more tumultuous than that of the East.
Second, let me try to make you understand what I mean by by genuine grievance. I mean a reasonable affliction as measured by its popularity among the designated peoples as well as ground realities. If minorities in Pakistan such as Ahmedis, or Christians grieve that they are deprived of certain inalienable rights or that they are persecuted for example, even if someone like you argues that they are harping exaggerated annoying bellyaches, it still would not change the ground realities that their situation or their national confidence is quite shaken because of concrete events and state tolerated bad fortunes. Similarly, in Pakistan if women gripe that they don't have equal status to men or that they don't even have a quarter of oppertunities available to men, someone may dismiss all of this as hogwash and feminazi banter. Still it wont change ground relaities.
You do realize I can goon and on right? Pakistan itself was founded on the basis of disenfranchisement faced by the muslims was it not?
As to your points that State retaliates to terrorism. Terrorism should not be allowed to engender in the first place. Organized terrorism is more often a socio political development than some religious or fringe or deranged phenomenon. And if it does happen, a good leader, a strong and just leader would definitely go after those who carried out the act but at the same time would speed up the process of reconciliation, dialogue and redress. A stupid establishment, an unjust cruel establishment would send their soldiers who would murder, rape, pillage and then shamelessly surrender to a lost cause forever marring the pride of a nation. Now of course like you said, an imprudent leadership may retaliate with full might of the state butchering, bombing people left right, but far from solving anything it results in absolute decay and entropy. If anything, that's what we have and should've learned.
And on your other point on what happened to Mujib afterwards is irrelevant. Pakistan too was created on just grounds, it turned out like this is irrelevant.
Re: sindhis not happy with pakistan
Things would have been much better for both Muslims in India and Pakistani muslims, if muslims of India would not have joined the movement of Pakistan - as majority of them had to live over there. The migration created two problems - hindus still punishing the muslims for creation of Pakistan and migrants still facing problem of integration into Pakistani society (due to their own failures or whatever).
What? Bro, Pakistan wouldn't have been even created if the muslim elite of the provinces of British Raj in modern day India had not addressed the issue. Leadership to spearhead the concerns of the muslim minority did not stem from the provinces of Pakistan but forom the muslim elite of British Raj's central and north Indian provinces. Purpose of Pakistan was simple, to gurantee a safe haven for muslims of South Asia, for them to preserve their heritage and their identity and history. IN that, there was gurantee to all residents that they could stay where they wanted to regardless of their religion. But f they felt threatened they had the right to relocate to the safe havens of Pakistan.
Re: sindhis not happy with pakistan
the people of the land of the pure are never happy!!!!!!!
This is old news!!!
Re: sindhis not happy with pakistan
the people of the land of the pure are never happy!!!!!!! This is old news!!!
Really? I know you said that out of despair. People of Pakistan have proven to be more patient than peoples in most nations. That they are not happy currently, is no news at all. What people would be hapy, when the state makes the people and its institutions as enemies of the state? Murdering people at the behest of another power? When people yearning for change are not allowed any? When the states educated cream, its judiciary, its citizens, it students are labelled as terrorists and bunched together with any and all acts terrorism? When people are kidnapped and there is no justice? When the military itself is split and officers conduct terrorism against the establishment? and turn against the ruler? When suicide blasts occur at police stations and helicopter gunships indiscriminately bomb innocent people? When leaders fail their people. When leaders are assassinated?
But we have seen good ties as well. When this nation even in its darkest hours and isolation was united and proud and the morale high.
Re: sindhis not happy with pakistan
Next time your great babar will be all alone, when all of Sindh will rise up.
Really. You think so?
I can think of several million Pashtuns in Karachi who would back him against MQM
Re: sindhis not happy with pakistan
Well it does not mean I am against the creation of Pakistan. Pakistan would have been created but only for people originally living here.
Without the help of urdu speaking muslims Pakistan would never have been created. Also without their help the country would not have survived. As an educated relatively middle class group they are essential to the nation. Its only with the MQM and the failed political culture in Pak that we have had problems.
Re: sindhis not happy with pakistan
Thats right! Some of them are as rich as a Sindhi wadera!
lol and they claim they are ordinary middle class ppl...
Re: sindhis not happy with pakistan
Personally I think the muslims of minority provinces of India should have not taken part in Pakistan's movement and should have not migrated to this Pakistan.
Thats what Jinnah wanted... He knew that huge exodus (largest in history) would only work against Pakistan because of its infancy and lack of resources, not to mention the communal riots that ensued afterwards.
Re: sindhis not happy with pakistan
Really. You think so?
I can think of several million Pashtuns in Karachi who would back him against MQM
They'll migrate back to pashtunistan or they will live happily as citizens of sindhudesh.
Re: sindhis not happy with pakistan
Well it does not mean I am against the creation of Pakistan. Pakistan would have been created but only for people originally living here.
What's the point of "Pakistan" than? Just should have created Punjabistan, Sindhudesh, Pashtunistan from the onset like Bangladesh.
Muslims (or anyone with little in common but an ideology) from different ethnicities cannot live with each other without killing each other
Re: sindhis not happy with pakistan
They'll migrate back to pashtunistan or they will live happily as citizens of sindhudesh.
So will the urdu speaking also live happily as citizens of Sindhudesh?
Will the Sindhis even want other ethnic groups to be part of their country?
Re: sindhis not happy with pakistan
What's the point of "Pakistan" than? Just should have created Punjabistan, Sindhudesh, Pashtunistan from the onset like Bangladesh.
Muslims (or anyone with little in common but an ideology) from different ethnicities cannot live with each other without killing each other
Dont publish stuff we are aware of MQM trash. Their propaganda speeches are well known.