Re: Similarties between Fiqah e Jafria and Fiqah e Hanfia
I have a slightly different opinion.Everyone knows about the similarities, the devil is in the details and its not going to go away. What needs to be done is not force people to reconcile their theological differences, but rather to inculcate tolerance for the differences. So, in my opinion, more emphasis should be on live and let live attitude.
Re: Similarties between Fiqah e Jafria and Fiqah e Hanfia
Peace muqawwee123
I would like make a point of clarity and that is the fiqh school of Imam Abu Hanifa and the fiqh school of Imam Jafar are in themselves not what constitutes the "sect" ... Also, I would not call Sunnis of any madhab a sect - we are the orthodoxy. Sect - short for sectarian group - is the group that separates itself from the main body based on a few principles. The Shi'atAli have thus named themselves for their political backing of Sayyiduna Ali (RA) (which is meaningless because Sunnis also recognise the authenticity of his leadership) more specifically it is about the denial of his (AS) succession to Mu'awiya (RA).
Originally, i.e. the earliest of Shi'a did not have anything bad to say about the first three Khalifahs, their separation was purely on the grounds of what happened with the Khawarij. And it was the Khawarij who were responsible for the first set of heresies. The later developments have created the more established differences.
In this regard Imam Abu Hanifah actually has sat in studies with Imam Jafar, who also had nothing ill to say about the first three khalifahs. Since, that would appear in some form in Abu Hanifah's life and would have been seen because he would have stayed away from such people.
The Ahmadiya sect for example is about 80 to 90% Hanafi in fiqh, but because the members of this group reject elements in the 'Aqeedah of the Ahl-us-Sunnah - that is the area of note.
The mu'tazili 'aqeedah is not considered part of the main body ... Also, there are completely different books the Shi'a have regarding their 'aqeedah, from the Imamat principles to the rejection of the Khalifahs.
As for similarities between the school of Imam Jafar and the school of Imam Abu Hanifah - I would first have to study books from the Jafari school to comment. Can you recommend any?
Re: Similarties between Fiqah e Jafria and Fiqah e Hanfia
Thanks psyah for this detailed post.
As hilighted in post 19, pillars of Islam are same for both the sects. These are the pillars for which we will be answerable to Allah on the day of judgement. Will we be asked for whether we accepted Khalifas or not? These are historical differences and probably not part of ones Iman. I don't know whether hilighting these differences will do any good to Muslim ummah except leading one group to call other kafir, etc.
These differences are not that important as were the differences between Muslims, Jews and Christian. Quran talks about such differences (like concept of trinity, Jews calling Uzair son of God) to rectify the basic belief which hit basic concept of Tauheed. But does accepting some one Khalifa or not will impact my concept of Tauheed?
When Quran invites ihl e Kitaab to talk about similarities and when Allah gives orders in Quran for like what is halal and whats not, He refers and says 'and the things which were halal for Yahood and Nasara', then why not we Muslims follow this approach for other sects. Calling other sect Kafir and get peace of mind is an easy thing for sometime, but when this thought destroys the fabric of Muslim society, its takes out peace from every mind, every home.
To be honest as common man, I don't know what books Fiqah e Jafria people refer for dealing their sharia matters. You can understand, how it is difficult to go through other sects books, when common men are told that the other sect got a different Quran. But I'll try to find out what books are used by Fiqah e Jafria.
Re: Similarties between Fiqah e Jafria and Fiqah e Hanfia
I don’t know why we have become so ‘protective’ of our belief. I have seen a lot of people saying outrageous things starting with “I heard about [insert school of thought] that they …”.
If we open up, be tolerant and ‘listen’ to each other, I am sure things would become much more easy for everyone. If my grandfather’s generation could live side by side with Hindus/Skikhs/Christians for a long period and If Muslims can live in Europe and elsewhere and even participate in their religious and social festivals, why not strive to know about fellow Muslims belonging to a different sect/school of thought? It is very much possible that our own ideas might be wrong on certain issues and we only realize that after a conversation with someone from a different school of thought.
Something I find useful… one should not stop questioning;
Lesley Hazleton: The doubt essential to faith | Video on TED.com
Re: Similarties between Fiqah e Jafria and Fiqah e Hanfia
There is a major misconception that Hz. Imam Jaffar as-Sadiq (rahimullah) was the author of Fiqh Jafariyyah. This is False.
Imam Jaffar (rahimullah) authored the following books:
1.) Taqseem-i-Ru’ya, 2.) Jami’atu fil-Jafr, and 3.) Kitab-ul-Jafr.
Imam Jaffar (rahimullah) was a great scholar – par excellence. Imam Abu Hanifa (rahimullah) and Imam Malik (rahimullah) did study under his care for couple of years.
These two went on to write books in Fiqh which carry their names. So in fact they are the ones who are real inheritors of knowledge of Hz. Imam Jaffar as-Sadiq (rahimullah)!
Ja’far bin Husain al-Qummi was first Shia scholar to write book on Fiqh for the Shia. So the fiqh Jaffariyah is attributed to his name.
Read:
Re: Similarties between Fiqah e Jafria and Fiqah e Hanfia
Major similiraties are Beleiving in:
One ALLAH,
Mohammed s.a.w his last Prophet,
Quran the book revealed to Prophet s.a.w (114 Surahs, 30 parahs),
124000 prophets
life after death,
Qayamat (day of judgement)
Angels, Jinnat
.
.
.
.
worry more about beleive of other sect than ur own beleives.
Re: Similarties between Fiqah e Jafria and Fiqah e Hanfia
so what do you think are the basic sources of Fiqah e Jafria for sharia matters?
Re: Similarties between Fiqah e Jafria and Fiqah e Hanfia
Major similiraties are Beleiving in:
One ALLAH, Mohammed s.a.w his last Prophet, Quran the book revealed to Prophet s.a.w (114 Surahs, 30 parahs), 124000 prophets life after death, Qayamat (day of judgement) Angels, Jinnat . . . . worry more about beleive of other sect than ur own beleives.
explain the last line please.
Re: Similarties between Fiqah e Jafria and Fiqah e Hanfia
There was no theological difference at all (apart from on matters of political rule) in the ummah until towards the end of the Abbasid Era. The split between Sunni and Shia changed from one that was restricted to politics into one that was of religious matters only occurred in the late Abbasid period.
It is wrong to even say that Imam Jafar and Hanafi were Sunni because the concept of Sunni and Shia as religious entities did not exist in their lifetime. It's like claiming that Iqbal was Pakistani, when Pakistan did not exist in his life.
There is nothing in Umayyad or Abbasid records to indicate that Shias were viewed as having different religious beliefs, other than those beliefs pertaining to politics. The persecution of the Ahlul Bayt and their supporters under those regimes was driven by the political threat perceived by rulers, rather than religious issues.
Re: Similarties between Fiqah e Jafria and Fiqah e Hanfia
After bro. Ibn Sadique’s clarification about the name of school I guess is one matter I can accept my mistake to have thought it came from Jafir as-Sadiq (RA). However, today there are Shi’a allowed to enter the Haramain on the grounds that they are accepted Muslims and also Shuyukh such as Hamza Yusuf - regardless of how the school acquired its name still accept the Jafriya as the fifth acceptable madhab.
Sh. Abdal Hakim Murad also echos the point that the Shi’a of the time of Imam Abu Hanifa were just Sunnis with different political stances.
Re: Similarties between Fiqah e Jafria and Fiqah e Hanfia
explain the last line please.
We worry so much about other sects beleives that we almost forget we will be questioned abt what we beleived and not what others believed.
I said it jokingly but unfortunately its so common that we can almost list that as a beleive that applies to all sects.
Re: Similarties between Fiqah e Jafria and Fiqah e Hanfia
We worry so much about other sects beleives that we almost forget we will be questioned abt what we beleived and not what others believed.
I said it jokingly but unfortunately its so common that we can almost list that as a beleive that applies to all sects.
I think we do think about other sects, but in negative light. If we spend 50% of our energies to dig out similarities and positive things about other sects, the world would be much much better place.
Re: Similarties between Fiqah e Jafria and Fiqah e Hanfia
It is called 'Fiqh of Jaffar' mainly because the science of fiqh starting to take formal shape during the time of Imam Sadiq. Among many other sciences that he taught, in terms of fiqh he carried on teaching to the thousands of his students is the distinct fiqh of the school of the progeny of Mohammad pbuh. He got the chance to propagate and formalize the teachings of the earlier Imams of Ahl al-Bayt. Imam Sadiq's disciples were many who studied earlier under his father Imam Baqir and his closest disciples carried on this association and learning from the Imams of the household of the Prophet Mohammad pbuh. These students authored numerous works, taught students who in turn passed down these teachings in turn teaching others, etc. Then of course there were the Imams of the Ahl al-Bayt (as) that followed after Imam Sadiq, who also had companions and so on.
Re: Similarties between Fiqah e Jafria and Fiqah e Hanfia
There is a major misconception that Hz. Imam Jaffar as-Sadiq (rahimullah) was the author of Fiqh Jafariyyah. This is False.
Imam Jaffar (rahimullah) authored the following books:
1.) Taqseem-i-Ru’ya, 2.) Jami’atu fil-Jafr, and 3.) Kitab-ul-Jafr.
Imam Jaffar (rahimullah) was a great scholar – par excellence. Imam Abu Hanifa (rahimullah) and Imam Malik (rahimullah) did study under his care for couple of years.
These two went on to write books in Fiqh which carry their names. So in fact they are the ones who are real inheritors of knowledge of Hz. Imam Jaffar as-Sadiq (rahimullah)!
Ja’far bin Husain al-Qummi was first Shia scholar to write book on Fiqh for the Shia. So the fiqh Jaffariyah is attributed to his name.
What book is 'Taqseem-i-Ru’ya'? and even though the books of Jafr are said to have come down from Imam Sadiq they are not books of fiqh.
Abu Hanifa and Malik were inheritors of Imam Sadiq?! what is the basis of saying that? what teachings of Imam Sadiq are found in the books of Abu Hanifa and in Malik's collections?
who is Jafar bin Husain al-Qummi? what book did he write?
Re: Similarties between Fiqah e Jafria and Fiqah e Hanfia
It is called 'Fiqh of Jaffar' mainly because the science of fiqh starting to take formal shape during the time of Imam Sadiq. Among many other sciences that he taught, in terms of fiqh, he carried on teaching to the thousands of his students is the distinct fiqh of the school of the progeny of Mohammad pbuh. He got the chance to propagate and formalize the teachings of the earlier Imams of Ahl al-Bayt had taught. Imam Sadiq's disciples were many who studied earlier under his father Imam Baqir and his closest disciples carried on this association and learning from the Imams of the household of the Prophet Mohammad pbuh. These students authored numerous works, taught students who in turn passed down these teachings in turn teaching others, etc. Then of course there were the Imams of the Ahl al-Bayt (as) that followed after Imam Sadiq, who also had companions and so on.
Peace Surdar Asif
I have Mukhtasar Al-Quduri (Deobandi book), Nur-ul-Ida (Barelwi book), Al Fiqh al Islami (Nadwi book) and Fiqh al Akbar (Im. Abu Hanifa) ... these are the manuals for the Hanafi fiqh today ...
Please give me a reference to an English translation of the Jafri fiqh ... I still cannot say what similarity there exists with the Hanafi fiqh if such a book cannot be sourced or read.
Re: Similarties between Fiqah e Jafria and Fiqah e Hanfia
Ok ... I have done some digging up and I have found the following facts out:
Fiqh-e-Jafariya is named after Imam Jafar As-Sadiq (out of respect) - It is not a fiqh that was devised by him and in reality a fiqh is seldom devised by the founder. For example the Hanafi school is also named after Imam Abu Hanifa (yet there are aspects in the school which have diverged from some opinions of the Imam himself) ...
Jafariyya like Hanafiya refers to a chain of tutelage that goes back to those teachers. So in a fashion Maliki fiqh and Hanafi fiqh are variations of the Jafari fiqh ... (if there is such a thing)
The sha'rh of the people who profess to be Jafaris is taken from a line of the following books and the respective scholars ...
Kitab al Kafi - Muhammad ibn Ya'qub al-Kulaini (known as Abu Ja'far), 9th century - incidentally around 58% of this collection is not followed by the modern Shi'a.
Man la yaduruhu al faqih - Muhammad ibn Babawayh al Qummi, 10th century (also known as Abu Ja'far)
Various commentaries by Nasir al-Din al-Tusi - Early 13th Century
Jafri jurisprudence has hence been named not to denote the existence of a school of thought that was devised by Imam Jafar, but rather to distinguish itself from the Fivers (Zaydis)... Since Imam Ja'far is the 6th Imam of the Shi'a.
The reality of the name of the Ja'fari fiqh is that it is no different to the Ithna 'Ashari fiqh ... they are the same thing. And where in Sunni books the fiqh is often found in neat collections or books the Shi'a have libraries that collectively constitute their fiqh.
Coming back to the main topic ... are there similarities between these two? I'm not sure ... However, there is evidence that some Sufi practices are shared between Twelver Shi'as and Hanafi Sufis ... but that is different to fiqh which again is different to aqeedah.
I think the OP needs to pick out examples of the Hanafi fiqh that he believes is shared by the Jafris and then we can analyse those specifics. But I would say that if there are any similarities it is mostly due to cross-pollination of the lay people who live closely with one another - rather than any scholarly reason.
Re: Similarties between Fiqah e Jafria and Fiqah e Hanfia
Are there any drastic differences in following basic pillars of Islam?
Re: Similarties between Fiqah e Jafria and Fiqah e Hanfia
Following are the four main books of hadith collections from the Imams of Ahl al-bayt. Approximately 1/3rd of the traditions quoted from Aaema are in relation matters of fiqh in particular including the usul of fiqh. Primary source of these compilations include epistles of Imams, plus written and oral transmissions from the disciples of Imam.
Al-Kafi: more than 16,000 traditions compiled by Yaqoob al kulayni.
Man la yahduruhu al-faqih: compiled by Shaykh Saduq. This book contains 9,044 hadiths.
Al-Tahdhib: compilation by shaykh Tusi. This book contains 13,590 hadith.
Al-Istibsar: This book was also compiled by Shaykh Tusi, and contains 5,511 hadith.
Re: Similarties between Fiqah e Jafria and Fiqah e Hanfia
Are there any drastic differences in following basic pillars of Islam?
No sir there is not ...
The thread's opening post insinuates that there are similarities between these two that are peculiar to these madhabs ... So the way I understood it is that there are some things similar between Hanafis and Jafris that are not similar between Shafis, Malikis or Hanbalis and Hanafis. I was looking to see what sets the Hanafis apart from the other Sunni madhabs and what sets the Jafris apart from the other Shi'as that also links the Jafaris and Hanafis together ...
I can't see evidence of that ...
If we are talking about the high level 5 pillars then the thread title could have been "similarities between Hanbalis and Jafaris" or "Malikis and Jafaris" - Why Hanafis? That is where I was thrown off course.
