Similarties between Fiqah e Jafria and Fiqah e Hanfia

[muqawwee123]

Re: Similarties between Fiqah e Jafria and Fiqah e Hanfia

I have said in my first post (talking of Pakistani society to be specific), so my purpose was finding similarities between Fiqah e Jafira (known as Shia) and Fiqah e Hanfiya (major sunni sect in Pakistan).

[Surdar_Asif]

Re: Similarties between Fiqah e Jafria and Fiqah e Hanfia

Finding differences and commonalities is a topic far beyond our scope but I have heard an expert say that 90% of masael are same.

One fundamental difference in method is the discouragement of analogical reasoning (qiyas) by 'JAffari Fiqh' in deriving rulings. Also, shia fuqaha are dynamic in their approach to ijtehad, dealing with new problems, writing jurispudence manuals dealing with contemporary issues.

[Surdar_Asif]

Re: Similarties between Fiqah e Jafria and Fiqah e Hanfia

The sha'rh of the people who profess to be Jafaris is taken from a line of the following books and the respective scholars ...

Kitab al Kafi - Muhammad ibn Ya'qub al-Kulaini (known as Abu Ja'far), 9th century - incidentally around 58% of this collection is not followed by the modern Shi'a.

Man la yaduruhu al faqih - Muhammad ibn Babawayh al Qummi, 10th century (also known as Abu Ja'far)

Various commentaries by Nasir al-Din al-Tusi - Early 13th Century

I think the author confused Mohammad Hassan Tusi (10th century) there with Nasir Tusi (13th century) as the former compiled important works on fiqh whereas the later was a religious scholar as well as a remarkable scientist.

[psyah]

Re: Similarties between Fiqah e Jafria and Fiqah e Hanfia

I think the author confused Mohammad Hassan Tusi (10th century) there with Nasir Tusi (13th century) as the former compiled important works on fiqh whereas the later was a religious scholar as well as a remarkable scientist.

Yes you are right ... I did confuse the two ...

It appears that Muhammad Hassan Tusi is also known as Abu Ja'far ... which means all three Shi'a Ja'fari fiqh scholars are known as

"Abu Ja'far" ... It explains a lot.

[Surdar_Asif]

Re: Similarties between Fiqah e Jafria and Fiqah e Hanfia

.

[Surdar_Asif]

Re: Similarties between Fiqah e Jafria and Fiqah e Hanfia

Here is some more information, Science of Hadith

[Ibn_Sadique]

Re: Similarties between Fiqah e Jafria and Fiqah e Hanfia

@muqawwee123

so what do you think are the basic sources of Fiqah e Jafria for sharia matters?

Shias reject any hadith from the Blessed Companions (May Allah be pleased with them all) of the Blessed Prophet (Peace be upon him) as if the Blessed Prophet’s (Peace be upon him) mission was to spread Allah Almighty’s message within his family.

@Surdar_Asif

Abu Hanifa and Malik were inheritors of Imam Sadiq?! what is the basis of saying that? what teachings of Imam Sadiq are found in the books of Abu Hanifa and in Malik’s collections?

Brother Surdar Asif - Name me one ‘Shia’ scholar who studied under the guidance of Imam Jaffar as-Sadiq (rahimullah)!!! I hope you take up the challenge!

@Surdar_Asif

It is called ‘Fiqh of Jaffar’ mainly because the science of fiqh starting to take formal shape during the time of Imam Sadiq. Among many other sciences that he taught, in terms of fiqh he carried on teaching to the thousands of his students is the distinct fiqh of the school of the progeny of Mohammad pbuh. He got the chance to propagate and formalize the teachings of the earlier Imams of Ahl al-Bayt. Imam Sadiq’s disciples were many who studied earlier under his father Imam Baqir and his closest disciples carried on this association and learning from the Imams of the household of the Prophet Mohammad pbuh. These students authored numerous works, taught students who in turn passed down these teachings in turn teaching others, etc. Then of course there were the Imams of the Ahl al-Bayt (as) that followed after Imam Sadiq, who also had companions and so on.

Please see the following site –(It is a Shia site):

Sunni Imams were students of Ahlelbait

It claims, rightly so, that Imam Jaffar as Sadiq (rahimullah) had thousands of students. It only names two Sunnis Fiqhs (Imam Abu Hanifa (rahimullah) and Imam Malik (rahimullah) as worthwhile pupils – Who eventually went on to write books on Fiqh.

The other pupil mentioned is Jābir ibn Hayyān – the famous Chemist – a pioneer.

J

NOTE NO SHIA SCHOLAR IS MENTIONED AT ALL.

Note the following facts:

Shia Religious books and their authors:

Man la Yahduruhu al-Faqih By: Ibn Babawayh, al-Shaykh al-Sadiq

“For the one who doesn’t have the jurist before him”, in a 4 volume set. Man la Yahduruhu al-Faqih is a major book of traditions by the leading Shi’a scholar Ibn Babawayh (al-Shaykh al-Sadiq , 306/923 - 381/991).

‘Al-Kafi’ by Al-Kulayni The author of al-Kafi was thiqat al-Islam, Abu Ja’far Muhammad b. Ya’qub b. Ishaq al-Kulaini al-Razi. He died in 328 A.H. or 329 A.H. (939 or 940 A.D.)

Tahdhib al-Ahkam by Compiler: Shaykh Tousi, Abu Ja`far Muhammad ibn Hasan (385/995 - 460/1068)

Al-Istibsar by Compiler: Shaykh Tousi, Abu Ja`far Muhammad ibn Hasan (385/995 - 460/1068)
**
Wasael ush-Shia** - Muhammad bin al-Ḥassan b. Ali b. al-Ḥusayn al-ʿĀmili al-Mashghari (1033/1624 - 1104/1693)

Take Note: All the Shia Scholars are born in the 4th Century AH – 300 years after Hijrah.

All the above Shia scholars have NO DIRECT CONNECT WITH ANY OF THEIR IMAMS!!!

Thus the books that they have written have no direct link with teachings of any of their so-called Imams!

Following the date of “date of Birth” of the 12th Shia Imam

Imam Muhammad Abul Qasim (al Mahdi)(AS), the last in the line of the Twelve Ithna Ashari Imams was born on 15th Shaban 255 Hijri (869 AD) in Samarra, Iraq.

8th Rabiul Awwal 260 Hijri (874) Twelfth Imam disappeared into samra cave

Note that:

Imam Jafar Sadiq (ra)

Birth : At Madina on 17th of Rabi-al-Awwal 83 AH (702 AD)
Died : In Madina at age 65, on Monday, 15th Rajab 148 AH (765 AD)

**Imaam Abu Hanifah (r.a.) year & place of birth: 80 A.H. (703) Kufa, Iraq.
AGE & DATE OF DEATH: 70 years of age : 150 A.H (763)
**
Mālik ibn Anas ibn Mālik (ra) (c. 711 – 795) (93 AH – 179 AH )

**Imaam Shafi’ **(rahimullah) was born in the year 150AH (765AD) Died Friday in the year 204 A.H. (819/820 A.D.)

Imam Ahmed ibn Hanbal (780 [164 AH] - 855 (241 AH)

All the above are contemporaries of each other.

Imam Abu Hanifah (rahimullah) and Imam Malik (rahimullah) were students of Imam Jaffar as-Sadiq (rahimullah) for couple of years

Imam Malik (rahimullah) was pupil of Imam Abu Hanifah (rahimullah)for some time.

Imaam Shafi’ (rahimullah) was pupil of Imam Malik (rahimullah) for some time.

Imam Abu Hanifah (rahimullah) was also pupil of Imam Baqir (rahimullah) – father of Imam Jafffar (rahimullah)

So one can clearly see that ‘Sunni’ Fiqhs got knowledge from Imams form Ahlel Bayt (ra) and no Shia scholar has this Honour!!!

[Ibn_Sadique]

Re: Similarties between Fiqah e Jafria and Fiqah e Hanfia

Read the following too: Interesting! Imam Jaffar as-Sadiq (rahimullah)

His mother was called Fatimah, whose title was Umm Farwah. She was the daughter of Qasim and the grand-daughter of Muhammad, the great Mujahid (warrior), who was the son of the Calipha Abu Bakr and a devoted follower of the Ahl-ul-Bayt. After the death of Abu Bakr, Asma, the wife of the first caliph and mother of Muhammad bin Abu Bakr, became the wife of Imam Ali and, thus, Muhammad bin Abu Bakr was brought up under the direct care of Amir ul-Momineen Ali and embodied the true tenets and spirit of the original and unadulterated Islamic faith.

Even important Sunni scholars, such as Sufyan al-Thawri, the famous legal theologian, were among his students. Abu Hanafi, the founder of the Hanafi school of thought, was an avid pupil of the Imam for two years, and exclaimed that he had not seen anyone possessed of more knowledge than Imam Jafar Sadiq. Similarly, Malik bin Anas, the founder of the Maliki creed of Sunni jurisprudence, was also a student of Imam Jafar Sadiq and is reported to have said, when quoting the Imam’s traditions, The Thiqa’ (Truthful), Jafar bin Muhammed, himself told me that …”. It is generally said that Imam Jafar Sadiq’s classes and sessions of instruction produced four thousand scholars of hadith and other sciences

Imam Al Sadiq

Note no Shia Scholar mentioned!!!

@Surdar_Asif

What book is ‘Taqseem-i-Ru’ya’? and even though the books of Jafr are said to have come down from Imam Sadiq they are not books of fiqh.
who is Jafar bin Husain al-Qummi? what book did he write?

Look the down no.24 for ‘Taqseem-i-Ru’ya’ in the list following link: (Writings by al-Imam Jaafar al-Sadiq (as))

Writings by al-Imam Ja’far al-Sadiq

Jafar bin Hussain al-Qummi? For this you got to refer to your maraja’

[Ibn_Sadique]

Re: Similarties between Fiqah e Jafria and Fiqah e Hanfia

I have said in my first post (talking of Pakistani society to be specific), so my purpose was finding similarities between Fiqah e Jafira (known as Shia) and Fiqah e Hanfiya (major sunni sect in Pakistan).

Fiqah e Hanfiya is not a sect - it a school of thought!!!!! From Sunni Brelevis resemble Shia a lot in some practices!

[Surdar_Asif]

Re: Similarties between Fiqah e Jafria and Fiqah e Hanfia

@Ibn_Sadique

Shias reject any hadith from the Blessed Companions (May Allah be pleased with them all) of the Blessed Prophet (Peace be upon him) as if the Blessed Prophet’s (Peace be upon him) mission was to spread Allah Almighty’s message within his family.

Shia reject hadith from companions? What is the source of this?

Brother Surdar Asif - Name me one ‘Shia’ scholar who studied under the guidance of Imam Jaffar as-Sadiq (rahimullah)!!! I hope you take up the challenge!

Sure. If you wish to start from Imam Sadiq then his son Imam Musa al Kazim will be the first name. Here is only some of his students and narrators of his teachings,

1. Zurara b. Ayan 2. Ubayd b. Zurara 3. Abd al-Malik b. Ayan 4.Humran b. Ayan 5. Abu Baseer 6. Hisham b. Hakam 7. Hisham b. Salim 8. Aban b. Taghlib 9. Abu Hamza ath-Thumali 10. Muhammad b. Muslim 11. Umar b. Yazid 12. Abdillah b. Sinan 13. Umar b. Hanthalah 14. Salim b. Abi Salama 15. Samaa b. Mehran 16. Ali b. Ri'aab 17. Husayn b. Nuaym 18. Karaam 19. Hamad b. Uthman 20. Zayd ash-Shahham 21. Muawiya b. Ammar 22. Muawiya b. Wahab 23. Yaqub b. Shuayb 24. Ishaq b. Ammar 25. Abu Khadija 26. Ays b. al-Qasim 27. Bakr b. Muhammad al-Azdi 28. Jameel b. Salih 29. Yaqub as-Sarraj 30. Husayn b. Abu’l Alaa' 31. Abdillah b. Abi Yafoor 32. Abu'l Sabah al-Kirani 33. Muammar b. Khallad 34. Ishaq b. Ghalib 35. al-Fudayl b. Yasar 36. Harun b. Hamza 37. Durays al-Kunasi 38. Ammar as-Sabati 39. Ayyub b. al-Hurr 40. Burayd b. Muawiya 41. Jabir al-Jufi 42. al-Harith b. al-Mughira 43. Sulayman b. Khalid 44. Hafs b. al-Bakhtari 45. al-Husayn b. Thuwayr 46. Hamad b. Isa 47. Abi Bakr al-Hadrami 48. Sadeer as-Sayrafi 49. Muadh b. Katheer 50. Safwan al-Jamaal

Please see the following site –(It is a Shia site):

Sunni Imams were students of Ahlelbait

It claims, rightly so, that Imam Jaffar as Sadiq (rahimullah) had thousands of students. It only names two Sunnis Fiqhs (Imam Abu Hanifa (rahimullah) and Imam Malik (rahimullah) as worthwhile pupils – Who eventually went on to write books on Fiqh.

The other pupil mentioned is Jābir ibn Hayyān – the famous Chemist – a pioneer.

J

NOTE NO SHIA SCHOLAR IS MENTIONED AT ALL.

That website is trustworthy? It looks like some kids personal website.

Note the following facts:

Shia Religious books and their authors:

Man la Yahduruhu al-Faqih By: Ibn Babawayh, al-Shaykh al-Sadiq

“For the one who doesn’t have the jurist before him”, in a 4 volume set. Man la Yahduruhu al-Faqih is a major book of traditions by the leading Shi’a scholar Ibn Babawayh (al-Shaykh al-Sadiq , 306/923 - 381/991).

‘Al-Kafi’ by Al-Kulayni The author of al-Kafi was thiqat al-Islam, Abu Ja’far Muhammad b. Ya’qub b. Ishaq al-Kulaini al-Razi. He died in 328 A.H. or 329 A.H. (939 or 940 A.D.)

Tahdhib al-Ahkam by Compiler: Shaykh Tousi, Abu Ja`far Muhammad ibn Hasan (385/995 - 460/1068)

Al-Istibsar by Compiler: Shaykh Tousi, Abu Ja`far Muhammad ibn Hasan (385/995 - 460/1068)
**
Wasael ush-Shia** - Muhammad bin al-Ḥassan b. Ali b. al-Ḥusayn al-ʿĀmili al-Mashghari (1033/1624 - 1104/1693)

Take Note: All the Shia Scholars are born in the 4th Century AH – 300 years after Hijrah.

All the above Shia scholars have NO DIRECT CONNECT WITH ANY OF THEIR IMAMS!!!

Thus the books that they have written have no direct link with teachings of any of their so-called Imams!

Following the date of “date of Birth” of the 12th Shia Imam

Imam Muhammad Abul Qasim (al Mahdi)(AS), the last in the line of the Twelve Ithna Ashari Imams was born on 15th Shaban 255 Hijri (869 AD) in Samarra, Iraq.

8th Rabiul Awwal 260 Hijri (874) Twelfth Imam disappeared into samra cave

Note that:

Imam Jafar Sadiq (ra)

Birth : At Madina on 17th of Rabi-al-Awwal 83 AH (702 AD)
Died : In Madina at age 65, on Monday, 15th Rajab 148 AH (765 AD)

**Imaam Abu Hanifah (r.a.) year & place of birth: 80 A.H. (703) Kufa, Iraq.
AGE & DATE OF DEATH: 70 years of age : 150 A.H (763)
**
Mālik ibn Anas ibn Mālik (ra) (c. 711 – 795) (93 AH – 179 AH )

**Imaam Shafi’ **(rahimullah) was born in the year 150AH (765AD) Died Friday in the year 204 A.H. (819/820 A.D.)

Imam Ahmed ibn Hanbal (780 [164 AH] - 855 (241 AH)

All the above are contemporaries of each other.

Imam Abu Hanifah (rahimullah) and Imam Malik (rahimullah) were students of Imam Jaffar as-Sadiq (rahimullah) for couple of years

Imam Malik (rahimullah) was pupil of Imam Abu Hanifah (rahimullah)for some time.

Imaam Shafi’ (rahimullah) was pupil of Imam Malik (rahimullah) for some time.

Imam Abu Hanifah (rahimullah) was also pupil of Imam Baqir (rahimullah) – father of Imam Jafffar (rahimullah)

So one can clearly see that ‘Sunni’ Fiqhs got knowledge from Imams form Ahlel Bayt (ra) and no Shia scholar has this Honour!!!

The four books of Shia books are compilations of main works. You can look up fihrist to research the main works.

Yes, Abu Hanifa and Malik did study under Imam Sadiq. What did imams of Ahl al-Bayt say about them and their methodologies?

I do not know what you mean when you say that no Shia scholar had the honour?

.

[Surdar_Asif]

Re: Similarties between Fiqah e Jafria and Fiqah e Hanfia

@Ibn_Sadique

Read the following too: Interesting! Imam Jaffar as-Sadiq (rahimullah)

Imam Al Sadiq

Note no Shia Scholar mentioned!!!

Jafar bin Hussain al-Qummi? For this you got to refer to your maraja’

It is better to ask marja than rely on doubtful websites and conduct your own research and study proofs. Those articles that you post will not make much sense to those that actually read and ask experts rather than websites.

[aqeel123]

Re: Similarties between Fiqah e Jafria and Fiqah e Hanfia

@muqawwee123

I think we do think about other sects, but in negative light. If we spend 50% of our energies to dig out similarities and positive things about other sects, the world would be much much better place.

Very well said...... Unfortunately i didnt have to mention the "negative light" because it so obvious that we only look for what other sect does wrong, we only spend our time learning what they beleive to call them wrong and raise fingers.

[Ibn_Sadique]

Re: Similarties between Fiqah e Jafria and Fiqah e Hanfia

@Surdar_Asif

Shia reject hadith from companions? What is the source of this?

Do not the Shia take the Blessed Companions (May Allah be pleased with them all) of the Blessed Prophet (saw)as unreliable except for 3 to 6 maximum? Shouldn’t hadith be from the ‘infallible’ imams?

Okay Shahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim are reliable for you?

@Surdar_Asif

Sure. If you wish to start from Imam Sadiq then his son Imam Musa al Kazim will be the first name. Here is only some of his students and narrators of his teachings,

Great start! Did Imam Jaffar’s son compile any books on fiqh? If he did, why his books are not on par with the 4 Shia books quoted by you earlier?

@Surdar_Asif

1. Zurara b. Ayan 2. Ubayd b. Zurara 3.Abd al-Malik b. Ayan 4.Humran b. Ayan 5. Abu Baseer 6. Hisham b. Hakam 7. Hisham b. Salim 8. Aban b. Taghlib 9. Abu Hamza ath-Thumali 10. Muhammad b. Muslim 11. Umar b. Yazid 12.Abdillah b. Sinan 13. Umar b. Hanthalah 14. Salim b. Abi Salama 15. Samaa b. Mehran 16. Ali b. Ri'aab 17. Husayn b. Nuaym 18. Karaam 19. Hamad b. Uthman 20. Zayd ash-Shahham 21. Muawiya b. Ammar 22. Muawiya b. Wahab 23. Yaqub b. Shuayb 24. Ishaq b.Ammar 25. Abu Khadija 26. Ays b. al-Qasim 27. Bakr b. Muhammad al-Azdi 28. Jameel b. Salih 29. Yaqub as-Sarraj 30. Husayn b. Abu'l Alaa' 31.Abdillah b. Abi Yafoor 32. Abu'l Sabah al-Kirani 33. Muammar b. Khallad 34. Ishaq b. Ghalib 35. al-Fudayl b. Yasar 36. Harun b. Hamza 37. Durays al-Kunasi 38.Ammar as-Sabati 39. Ayyub b. al-Hurr 40. Burayd b. Muawiya 41. Jabir al-Jufi 42. al-Harith b. al-Mughira 43. Sulayman b. Khalid 44. Hafs b. al-Bakhtari 45. al-Husayn b. Thuwayr 46. Hamad b. Isa 47. Abi Bakr al-Hadrami 48. Sadeer as-Sayrafi 49. Muadh b. Katheer 50. Safwan al-Jamaal

Surdar Asif – Is that the best you can do? If so, sorry to say this, – pathetic.

These are his students/companions/narrators but has anyone of them written any books on Fiqh? No,Sir. A big NO! Only Imam Abu Hanifah (rahimullah) and Imam Malik (rahimullah) have this honour to learn from the Great Imam and compile book on Fiqh!

@Surdar_Asif

That website is trustworthy? It looks like some kids personal website.

You tell me it is a Shia website? It seems the kid knows a lot more than you.

@Surdar_Asif

The four books of Shia books are compilations of main works. You can look up fihrist to research the main works.

All Shias books are written by scholars who never ever met any Imam on yours. Whereas the Sunni Fiqhs were companions of your Imams!!!!!!

@Surdar_Asif

Yes, Abu Hanifa and Malik did study under Imam Sadiq. What did imams of Ahl al-Bayt say about them and their methodologies?

Shia books are full on narrations attributed to their Imam degrading Imam Abu Hanifah and Imam Malik.

Similarly same Shia books are full of narrations against the blessed Companions and blessed wives (May Allah be pleased with them all) of the blessed Prophet (Peace be upon him).

Cursing and abusing - is a trait.

@Surdar_Asif

I do not know what you mean when you say that no Shia scholar had the honour.

Shia scholars who wrote great books for the Shia – did not have the honour to sit at the feet (as the saying goes) of the great Imams – to learn directly from them. I’ll mention the four below.

1)Ibn Babawayh, al-Shaykh al-Sadiq 2)Abu Ja'far Muhammad b. Ya'qub b. Ishaq al-Kulaini al-Razi.
3)Abu Ja`far Muhammad ibn Hasan 4)Muhammad bin al-Ḥassan b. Ali b. al-Ḥusayn al-ʿĀmili

As I shown in my previous post – these people came into action nearly two centuries after your last Imam.

[Surdar_Asif]

Re: Similarties between Fiqah e Jafria and Fiqah e Hanfia

Ignorance and bad ikhlaq will result in most of the reasonable people ignore you. Most of what you are saying is repetition of what has already been replied. You make a couple of new points and I can write an answer if you show more maturity in your approach.

[muqawwee123]

Re: Similarties between Fiqah e Jafria and Fiqah e Hanfia

The current situation made some people believe that there are huge huge differences between these two major sects of Islam (talking of Pakistani society to be specific).

Some people say that the differences are not about sharia they follow, but some historical disputes.

Leaving asides these differences, lets talk about the similarities between these two sects (without saying anything negative about each other).

I start... Both sects offer prayers for 5 times. Some people believe that Fiqah e Jafria people have 3 times of prayers ( they have azaan for 3 times in their mosques). They offer Asr with Zuhr (call it Zohrain), Isha with Maghrib (call it Maghriben).

I again repeat my request: **Leaving asides these differences, lets talk about the similarities between these two sects (without saying anything negative about each other).

**