Re: Should the Niqab be banned?
I think that the correct response should be to de-emphasize it from Islam. Banning is one extreme, but I don’t see anyone saying that ‘fine, it is a personal choice, but it isn’t islamic’. This should be the crux of the whole thread.
Re: Should the Niqab be banned?
This is the translation I found for 33:59 - O Prophet! Tell to your wives, and daughters and Muslim women, that they should keep putting a part of theirwrapping covers over their faces. This is nearer than this that if they are recognized, they should not beannoyed. And Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
Re: Should the Niqab be banned?
I looked up the verse that PCG mentions:
Maybe it’s just me…and maybe I need to do some more reading about the circumstances surrounding this verse, which I will do later but at first blush it comes across to me as suggesting that women should cover themselves so that they will be recognized as “believing women” thus affording them respect in society.
Yes…it does suggest that they should be recognized as PCG suggests…but recognized by their attire as Muslims. Not recognized as in “oh yeah, that’s Muzna, I can tell from looking at her face”.
Anyone else see this?
Now…I’m not using this to make a case for niqab. I simply think that the interpretation PCG is asserting using this verse as the backbone is wrong.
and PCG…I’m going to ignore your whines about me bullying or insulting you…take your own advice and go back to read the thread…it’s pretty obvious.
Re: Should the Niqab be banned?
Yes it is…
May Allah grant us true understanding of deen Allahuma Ameen
Re: Should the Niqab be banned?
Here’s some more to put the above verse in context:
Verse 33:57 describes the subject being addressed.
It shows that the matter of discussion is “those who annoy Allah and His Messenger”
Then verse 33:58 goes on to describe the sin that shall be attributed to those that “annoy” believing men and women…
So would it not go that the message in verse 33:59 is encouraging women to cover themselves in a fashion that would allow easy identification as “believing women”? Not telling them to “uncover” so that they may be easily recognizable by a unique identity (i.e. name).
And by covering themselves the women would be saved from the “annoyance” and harassment that women who are not easily identified as Muslim would be exposed to.
and here’s a cool site that covers a whole bunch of translations…
Re: Should the Niqab be banned?
I said I wear an abaya to the masjid during Ramadan when I’m serving 250 people iftar & dinner outdoors in 110 degree temps because it’s more comfortable and serviceable…I can wear a tank top and yoga pants underneath and don’t have to fool with a long dupatta. Abaya is not my only and complete dress code. When I’m picking and dropping my kids off for Sunday School I’m always in jeans or track pants and tshirt. When I take them for Jummah namaz on their days off from school I’m in regular work clothes that is masjid appropriate if I’m coming from an appointment myself. When I go for committee meetings, we usually don’t even meet at the masjid, but at a local coffee house instead. If I am the masjid for our monthly family nights then either I wear a lawn shalwar kameez or a long kurti and leggings. The only time I have ever witnessed a women be shunned at our masjid is when a lady was repeatedly showing up during ramadan in sleeveless low cut (to where her breasts were literally popping out) tops and skintight jeggings. Only then did a couple of women pull her aside and kindly ask her to put a jacket or something on over her top. When she didn’t comply, she was left alone. She continued to come dressed like that and even though she didn’t make any friends, she wasn’t tarred, feathered and stoned either.
Again, I’m sorry you had such a negative experience here, but my 40 years in this city vs your 3 years show that it’s not as bad as you’re painting it to be. The main masjid you were mostly going to definitely has a good 'ol boys club and is a tough nut to crack. It’s steeped in tradition and their is favoritism towards certain ethnicities, I fully admit that. I just think that it needs to be acknowledged it’s probably more the fact that you were single and didn’t have a familial connection and seen as a newcomer, so you were not taken seriously. Was it right, definitely not! But it’s hardly as doom and gloom as you’re making it out to be. There are many smaller,more progressive congregations that have splintered off from the mothership where you would have been more then welcomed.
I’d also like to add that no matter how open minded or progressive a masjid might be, certain dress code and decorum will always take precedence like separate mens and women’s areas, segregated meals and lectures, and expectations for women to dress a certain way (hair covered, arms and legs covered, not wearing revealing clothing)…these are things that will never change no matter how open minded or progressive a masjid is, wouldn’t you agree?
Re: Should the Niqab be banned?
I need to come to your mosque for taraweeh.
Re: Should the Niqab be banned?
Yeah I wish her mosque was like ours. Sadly in this college town, no one in the women’s section even speaks to anyone else. It’s so bizarre.
Re: Should the Niqab be banned?
It just says “recognized” not recognized as believing women.
But yes it could mean what you think it does but the duplicity of the meaning is there and coupled with that we show our faces when doing pilgrimage and that the very Hadith that even hijabis use to support their head scarves, says to keep the face open. So it adds more meaning to the verse saying that you should be recognized as Muzna vs PCG etc. if it’s not 33:59 it’s another one in the neighborhood of that verse.
Re: Should the Niqab be banned?
And yeah if you cover your face no one can identify you as muzna in the first place to recognize you as a Muslim. You’re just a wandering shadow at that point.
Re: Should the Niqab be banned?
It isn’t Islamic. It’s a security risk. It’s putting people in danger and helping people get away with crimes. You can’t identify a criminal on a security cam if they’re wearing this and you certainly aren’t giving any positive identity to any group. I don’t know if people are realizing it. But this article of clothing scares the crap out of people these days.
Re: Should the Niqab be banned?
how about people in winter who cover their head with parka hoods and face with scarfs [only eyes are showing]? aren’t they a security risk as per your thinking?
let’s be rational and not enforce our views about religious dress codes on other. they are as FREE to wear burq’a as you are FREE to wear jeans, skirts or bikinis.
Re: Should the Niqab be banned?
Like I said, I’m not using the surah to support niqab.
It’s YOU who is using the verse to disqualify niqab so the onus is on YOU to prove your point.
Using this verse you have not done so. Maybe you want to spend some time looking for the other verse.
There is no duplicity of meaning. That’s why I brought the previous two verses in as well…for clarity and to understand what the circumstance/context was.
The message is clear…there was harassment going on…a means of distinguishing “believing women” from non-believing women was needed and the solution “to cover yourself” was sent down.
How can you expect anyone to recognize me as Muslim just by my face? That’s near impossible for women.
So in the context of the verse I am being asked to dress in a particular “uniform” so that people on the streets can identify me as Muslim and I will no longer be a “wandering shadow”.
Re: Should the Niqab be banned?
Some states in the U.S. have a different culture in masjids than others. The state where I previously lived in, the mosque most frequented by Indian/ Pakistanis had a more liberal outlook. Some women were actually dressed too liberally for my liking, but the niqabis ad hijabis co-existed peacefully together. In fact the head of the very well organized Sunday school wore a hijab to the masjid but did not wear one in regular life. However, the masjids in the state where I am now are more conservative. Wearing just a duppatta on the head is a rarity. I would need an emergency abaya with me too as wearing modest western clothing with jeans etc with a head covering would look out of place there.
Re: Should the Niqab be banned?
Question for you: In that second stance which you refer as more conservative, do they look down upon or disallow anyone from entering as PCG has explained in her experience?
Re: Should the Niqab be banned?
PhenoMenon
PhenoNair
Both are used interchangeably.
Thank you.
Re: Should the Niqab be banned?
So you take a potshot at an alternative lifestyle- stating that does not align with Islam
I point out God loves everyone
By your response you imply that is not true (which is quite a bigoted view in my opinion)
To which I respond not just according to me but according to any decent and fair minded individual, God loves everyone
To which you state that is self praise. How warped is that? A simple concept that God loves everyone should be obvious to decent and fair minded individuals. Too bad I had to point it out. This concept is so foreign to you and your ilk that you frame those who have such views as self praising.
However knowledgeable you are about a religion, it is a waste when you would disrespect someone just because they have a different lifestyle that does not harm anyone.
(I googled for meaning of muhavra)
Re: Should the Niqab be banned?
I haven’t been here long enough, but they have not said anything to me personally so far. I wear the duppatta on my head with shalwar kameez usually. However, even if I peep inside the men’s area to look for my son or husband, multiple people start directing me towards the women’s area, unprompted.
Re: Should the Niqab be banned?
Forget the Irshad Manji’s of the world. In their hearts they see a woman without A hijab and they think “evil”, “bad Muslim”, etc. they think they’re actually better because they wear a cloth on their head. I can’t think of anything that would be more fit for an afternoon of tea with the Mad Hatter.
Re: Should the Niqab be banned?
How do you know what they “think”?
Why do you care about it?
Do you know wut others think after seeing a woman in hijab, specially these days? Are you going to run a campaign against them?