Shia-Sunni

Society Religion & Philosophy
61

bro its not my personal perspective , only in later times the shia-sunni debates have involved incidents linked to issue of leadership and succession.

Furthermore we now ASSUME that only 2 beliefs existed since time of prophet sunni ( whatever u may infer from that word) and imami 12er shia .....

a wellread poster like u must be well aware how the present belief systems or sects have evolved ...infighting between sunni schools , ashari , mutazilla and not to forget intra-shia fighting/debates on imamate and allied topics.fighting i mean in intellectual sense not military sense,
We conventiently forget that we cannot jump from ghadeer to fadak to shura to siffin to karbala and ignore everything im between and afterwards.

e.g take hotly debated topic like "who killed hussain"
12ers try to prove it was sahaba/tabeen who are predecessors of sunnis as if ummayyads represented the mainstream sunni thinking.
while nawasib try to prove they were "shias" as in the present sense of the word and avoid blame on ummmayyads
( refer to articles on ahlebayt.com and AA)
both parties present a series of half truths and avoid the bigger picture.To the unwary both arguments seem plausible so they believe whatever they are more COMFORTABLE with.
now 12ers who have grown up with a visceral hatred of vast majority of sahaba former seems believable
and sunnis who think that shia is a sect invented by some jew who is responsible for every tragedy that befell islam find the latter view easy to accept.

62

People seem to be discrediting me because i am not engaging in a debate.

Well i already informed people who are being charged by my posts, having already been thorugh them getting-nowhere pathetic debates, im just here to cut the long story short and give a bottom line verdict that:

Shia doctrines of HATE for SAHABA and TAQQIYAH-LIEING-DECIEVING-CONCEALING real faith, is somthing that we find extremly offensive and off-putting therefore we dont want to be friendly nor learn any more from what you say.

Many of you including the institution i studied in desperatly forward the 'unity' concept, something which we dont want nor need from you.

WHY? BECAUSE:

All one needs to do is open any of your respected hadith books of usul-kafi or nargul-balagha to get PROOF of the vulgar unconcileble doctrines above I mentioned.

And i also offered proof of video links to shias TABARA night where you can have a live view of them collectivly spilling thier abuses and hateful emotions, towards the sahaba.

If any sunni sees this broad proof of SHIAS HATE FOR SAHABA AND SUNNIES then i gurantee like me all sunnies far from debate, will want to maintain long distant from shias.

Infact, videos on You.tube.com would even more easily serve this cause for curious minds.

And it is not just these books. Publications and literatures of Prominent past and Present Shia figures support and acknowlegde these extreme beliefs and hadiths.

So there is no more excuse that every such hadith is weak or inaccurate, that should be thrown on the wall.
I im not wrong, I think there are roughly somthing like 30,000 stated weak hadiths in usul-kafi. which is around a third its size. So are u telling us that a third of your most respected resource deserves to be thrown on the wall. no disrespect but then i think it would also be something like throwing a third of your relgion at the wall isnt it.
And if so i hope all the hate and spew of the sahaba is part of it, maybe then we can have some unity.

There are many resoures on the web. i.e you-tube from where you can verify if my claims are 'nasibi' based or indeed of correct and accurate nature.

There also is complete online versions of hadith al-kafi and nargul-balagah, if someone is curious to explore them.
--

^And NICE-BOY yes i would like to take up your offer of scanned proofs sunni hadiths of h.aisha wailing at the prophets death (pbuh).
Pls ensure that it is accompanied by an english translation, scan cover of the book and the contents page.

If either is missing it i deem it invalid.

An yeh that sure is an extremly inteligent divertion from referance of the shia self-bloody beating ashoora majority, to sunni/taliban terrorist but minority act.

And how many times more will you stupidly imply that the shia website:

answering-ansar.com isnt a reply website to ansar.com but to website ahlulbayt.com

Nobodies trying to act nasibi.

Im just trying to cut the chase and be plain honest and frank, which is that in our eyes you have a sick belief disrespecting the sahabies of the prophet:

It shoudl be remebered though its these very Sahabies who:

In koran:

-have been refered to as the best of nations.

-have fought numerous wars, including Badr, Uhud, who put thier lifes at stake sacrificing thier lives, property, family, just for Allahs and Islams futures sake.

-Compiled the koran and past on the deen to us

-Fought and conquerded that times strongest byzantinne and persian empires, and expanded Islam out from the arabic penisular to the vast kufr west.

  • The people for whom the Prophet (pbuh) said in an authentic hadith: ''Do not Reville At''

-The people who are the muhajirs and ansar, whom ALLAH honoured with promises of paradise in the koran.

^ Therefore We should be grateful to these people for sacrificing themselves for strenghting Islam and for it to be enabled to conveyed to people like us.

And therefore we sunnies should not tolerate nor desire frindship with anybody who shows an ounce of ingratitude to them.

The common misconeptions shias people have agasint sahaba are with proof respectfully refuted and clarified by the boys at ahlulbayt.com.
And Shias should try to read this informative website with open minds.
It is written in a postive and helpful format as opposed to other provoking or agrresive anti-shia ones that are being complained about.

And yes we do belive that the sahabies can make mistakes and small sins.
No sunni ever denies that as only the Prophet (pbuh) is infallible.

But** I never called any shia kafir.**
Pls note in none of my posts i sakid anything like who abuses the sahaba is kufr.

So nice-boy better stop forging things again

But Yeh the shias have sick beliefs thats why I dont like them.

And If i was you id end the pathetic attempt to defend your religion.

Because if i wanted to create havoc all i have to do is copy and paste say a few 100 vulgar/nasty hadiths from your usul-kafi online linked resource.

and

  • paste links here to a couple of tabara online vids. -paste video links of your mullahs and scholars maligning sahaba + slandering aishas charecter + more vulgarity.

But factually speaking, I have not yet even copy-pasted a single item from any resource, but some idiots here r alredy accusing me of copy-pasting literature that too from nasibi websites!

Personally i dont even know of any nasibi websites. If i knew any site that spread hate for h.ali or his family id be the first to stand against it.

I love H.Ali and I love the ahlul-bayt. I do not belive that any of the promiment sahaba did any injustice to h.ali, h.fatima, or other members of his family, therefore i do not deem it logical to bear any grudges againts them, accordingly nor do i feel respect for sahaba means disrespect for ahelulbayt.

But i admit there are some perceived misconceptions between h.ali and sahaba, which i have already stated are shed light on and clarified on the website

ahlulbayt.com

Peace people

63

CLICK HERE and read about the credibility of your favourite website ahlelbayt.com. If you really love Hz. Ali (as) and Prophets’ (s) daughter, as you claim, you would not be visiting and recommending that web site runing by nwasib like ibn Hashmi and other fitna mongers like him again.

This is just a little example how these nwasib on ahlelbayt.com manipulate shia text and week traditions to spread confusion and creat a fanbase of week minded people like you.

I salute AA Team, may Allah (swt) bless them, who have been successfully refuting and exposing the lies spreaded by ansar.org or ahlelbayt.com against shia school of thought.

64

[quote=“amir_pindi, post:8, topic:199448”]

The doctrine of hating the enemies of Ahlulbayt [as] and Tqaiyah are out and out Islamic and oneone who oppose the is just doing it in his sheer hatred of the Shias.

You will get it in a short time.

The number of time you are going to imply that the Nasibi website you are in love with is Muhkam i.e. has not been refuted and AA does only refute to Ansar.org but not to the former.

No body is denying that there were no pious Sahaba who did those aforesaid acts, we onyl have problem with the pathetic notion that just because lacs of people [in typical woprds called ‘Sahaba’] saw and believed in Prophet [s] therefore they must be respected and nothing should be said against them even if they commit major sins. This is not only illogical but goes against the Quranic and Historical facts wherein we see that number of those Sahaba who participated in the acts you mentioned, later on did commit various sorts of crimes, and to quote the Imam of Salafies/Wahabies namely Ibn Uthameen here:

“There is no doubting that some of them stole, drank alcohol, launched a charge against chaste women, performed adultery whilst being married and performed adultery whilst being single, but all these are forgivable on account of their virtues and good deeds, and some of them were punished so as to purify them.”
‘Sharh al-Aqyda al-Tahawyia’ under the chapter ‘The stance of Ahlul Sunnah wal Jama’ah in relation to the Sahabah’
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Thus, DO NOT EXPECT from us that we will do blind worshipping of Sahaba like you do and will respect those who did the aforementioned acts, just because they were Sahaba. NO. For pious and righteous Sahaba, we believe that we are just not equal to their shoe dust but those of them who committed different sorts of sins particularly hating, abusing, hurting and fighting Ahlulbayt [as] - No WAY. Such individuals mubarak to you.

We are not talking about mistakes, we are talking about sins, grave sins like the Salafi Imam mentioned in his list. But particularly as I have bene saying it repeatedly, we have problem with the “unforgivenable sins” that were committed by some of them against Ahulbayt [as].

You personally may not have done it explicitly, but the proofs you have been relying on implied so. We know there is a segment of Nawasib that call Shia Kaafir on the basis of hatred of Sahaba, and what you have been doing this long implied the same. But even if, [what you call] Hating and abusing Sahaba is not Kufr, then what is it exactly? Whaever it is, will you pass the same edict against those who hated/ hurt/ abused/ cursed and faught your fourth caliph.

Thats because you [at the moment] have no ground left to defend your own religion and finding it difficult.

Had you done that, would you have expected me to remain quite? I would have done the same thing from your books too.

The red part shows, either you are totally ignorant of historical versions of your own books or you are just closing your eyes from those facts since that will make you embarrassed. Forget about others, but the fact that Khtoon e Janat, Fatima Zahra [sa] was angry with Abu Bakar due to his usurption tactics and she died in the very state is a fact written in black and white in your Sahih books.

www.Answering-Ansar.org

65

ok proove me from authentic histry where did prophet pbuh preached about imamate of hz. ali ra, where did prophet pbuh says that hz.ali ra will be leader of muslim after me, where did prophet pbuh says that hz. ali ra and his selected offspring which selected by ppls not allah since there are many difference between shia sects about imam and also differences in numbers of imams some beliefs 5 imams, some beliefs 7 imams, some beliefs 12 imams etc.

why quran slient about imamte issue.

why hadith slient about imamte issue as per shai imamte is core issue.

there were 100 thousands of sahabies no one support hz. ali ra for their right even as per shia beliefs that all are together against hz. ali ra even they did not devided into many group if they hide some thing or want politacally advantage why they did not devided into group.

why hz. ali ra slient on imamte issue, as per shai belifs this is core issue and how it possible for a masoom to hide truth from ummah for whole of his life, even he ra was apponited by allah (as per your beliefs) why why he afraid to tell truth even he ra was in power.

also why every of your so called imam did not do so if he rah appointed by allah why he rah did not announced such imamate issue in ummah.

66

Mr Nasibi, dont interfere in the thread to derail it , if you want to waste time of all on different topic than of this thread, you can alwasy open a new thread and you will be replied there, as usual.

67

Re: Shia-Sunni

^^^^^^^^^^

CRESCENT BRO .... am sure ur intention wasnt to get this from the Thread.

68

Man Nice-Boy

Good arguments....

But belive me its not that i cant defend my relgiuon i stay behind in debating..

When I have better and productive things to spend my time and on, why should i waste it on u?

Infact your extreme hatred for good people is something that has killed my mercy once that i had to have on your kind.

However, I do nt belive all sahabie were angels. Ofcourse they were not, somtimes they had quarrls or disagreements with each, something which is natural, things which they often resolved and reconciled with.
But it does not mean you dissassociate with one and start sideing with another.
Similarly There were some quarrels, misunderstandings between some sahaba and some ahlul-bayt, but those according to us were resolved, reconceiled and done likewise with.
We do not belive there are reasons to hold grudges agsints anyone from anyside.

And far as the Koran goes Allah has honuored in the koran some sahabies specifcally with promsie of paradise.
Including, the 'Muhajirun(Migrants form Makka to Medina), and the 'Ansar (Habitants of Madina who recieved the Migrants).
Above of, whom Foremost, were the 3 caliph and nabi paks 2 wives.

Therefore we sunnies and rightly so see it wrong entertaining or even thinking of doubts in the conducts/charceters of them.

Whichever websites people choose to learn about-sunni-shiasm

In the end i have faith facts stick out more than emotions/opinions.

And yours referalls of people to answering-ansar will certainly make people more curious to learn more on the truth from other sources including ansar.com, ahlul-bayt.com

You can continue claiming that your books are incorrect and that, to 'defend' yourself.

But how will you stop the like millions of vulgar live/video proof of the things im claiming of been uploaded by your own sects members. (idiots if u dnt mind me callin them).
Theres vids of all types and variety of your shais with the same but one fundemental actions of vulgarity and hate.

Infact i know of many video gatherings where your leaders are boldly/proudly announcing that the Shia who does not fundementally HATE/REVILLE Sahaba is not a Shia?

What do you call this? Is this your truth.

I dont think you would find many sunnis vid.s exemliying this kind of attitude to H.Ali, or h.Fatima, or h.Hussein.

Infact if how would you feel if we did.

Infact we love the ahlul-bayt just as much we love the Sahaba.

We have respect for both sides, and cannot tolerate slander of either.

69

Re: Shia-Sunni

amir pindi bhai, u r going round and round in circles w/o making much sense....u do sound lesser and lesser like a WWF wrestler thru this thread tho which shows there has been some progress.

DANCE AND MASTI IS ONNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN....!!!! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
70

first of all we did not have any proof which shows that there are any differences between sahabies, all aware that prophet pbuh order hz. abu bakar ra to lead salah in place of prophet pbuh and also hz.ali ra was there and he ra performed salah after hz. siddique-e-akbar. (one more thing is that the name "siddique" "a person who always telling truth" was given by prophet pbuh himself) and also we did not seen any differences between hz. umer ra and hz. ali ra in era of hz. umer ra hz. ali ra was adviser of hz. umer ra and in era of hz. usman ra both sons of hz. ali ra (hz. hasan ra and hz. hussein ra) was guarding house of hz. usman ra.

and also hz. ali ra make agreement with hz. amir mauwiah ra (if hz. amir ra was not on right path why a masoom (so called by shia) imam make treaty with munafiq (nauzubillah). and also hz. hassan ra was did same thing even he ra accept khalifat of hz. amir ra if hz. hassan ra was masoom and have devene authority did shariya allowed him ra to do so.

also offspring of these respectable persons where did they claim that they are imam and all sahabies except 3 or 4 are munafiq.

71

Its not the question of did, rather you do it though induirectly i.e. by prasing and licking the feet of all time enemies of them. That makes our blood boil, yet we say, leave it since those enemies of Ahlulbayt [as] happened to be the ancestors of you people and everyone has the right to practice his religion. It is only people like you who from time to time highlight the differences between the two sects and hence create rift.

[quote]
Infact we love the ahlul-bayt just as much we love the Sahaba.

We have respect for both sides, and cannot tolerate slander of either.
[/quote]

The reallity is that by loving and respecting the enemies of Ahlulbayt [as], you have indeed tolerated the slader against Ahulbayt [as]. As I have been repeatedly saying, you cannot claim to love both the opressor and the opressed, the killer and the diseased, sail into two boats at a time, either you have to side with the opressor or with the opressed.

dancing boys of afghanistan
72

first defined me from quran and hadith who are ahlul bait?.

and who hates ahlul bait.

73

This is called Ayat-e-Mubahila and it is proof enough who are the people of the house or ahl-e-bayt. Prophet (SAW) took the people of Kisa only to this gathering and none of his wives.

  • 003.061 * YUSUFALI: If any one disputes in this matter with thee, now after (full) knowledge Hath come to thee, say: "Come! let us gather together,- our sons and your sons, our women and your women, ourselves and yourselves: Then let us earnestly pray, and invoke the curse of Allah on those who lie!"
74

How many times I have told you not to intervene and derail the topic, the "new topic" button is always there for use.

75

you ran away from your thread ayah-e-thateer.

76

I have responded to ayah-e-tatheer in the who are the Ahlel Bayt? thread, lets not mix up the two threads.

77

and i already told you that as per quran ahlul bait are wives of prophet pbuh and prophet pbuh further added ahlul bait in hadith of clock which i posted in thread who are ahlul bait.

and also quran used word ahlul bait only for wives.

78

Ok so prove it from Quran and not a copy paste job. Articulate your arguments

79

come at who are ahlul bait topic.

The Random Thread
80

Some may brand it offtopic, but its not surely one.

Dawah activities have suddenly hotted up in India for past few years. Various arguments are given in support to dawah. I remember one question and answer session of Dr. Zakir Naik where one hindu asked him what could be the way of universal brotherhood. Dr Saab immidiately replied that worship one GOD only and it will lead to universal brotherhood, than he kept on convincing the gathering that how Islam is the only true religion and how ALLAH wants whole universe to become muslim, how vedas predicted abot the holy prophet (saw),. He threw some mocking question towqrds hindus in regard to idol worshispping and having multiple gods.

Now whenever I see such sectarian debates or whenever I happen to join a shia majlis or any sunni iztima............I couldnt help laughing over hollow claims of muslims and likes of Dr. Naik who claims that Islam is religion of universal brotherhood, peace and tolrence. The palpable hatred among sects of muslims is enough rebutall to these claims.

How true when they say that ALLAH's lathi is be-awaaz,but when it hits, it hits hard.

May better sense prevail.

Peace to U all.