Shi'a Religion : Open Discussion - Questions Are Welcome

Society Religion & Philosophy
41

As far as Mut'a is concerned I asked a friend of mine, and I must apologize that whatever I said about it was not true. I did not know too much about the issue. (But I still doubt that an Imam would have said that doing Mut'a gets you a higher status like Imam Hussain or something) but still I'll do more research.All I know at this moment is that... Prophet Mohammad made it Mubah (no sawab or gunah for it). I think that in some cases it is recommended to Mut'a. I'll try to get more details.

[quote]
Originally posted by Beatle_ki_wapsi:
*How do you justify the "Matham" which you perform?
*
[/quote]

Let me just make one thing clear... Matham is not part of the religion. It doesn't say in the Qur'an, Sunnah or religious books that you should do this. It's more of a cultural thing, with some historical value to it. People do it, because this is their only way of venting their grief and anger. Shia's feel the same love for the prophet and his progeny as they would for their family. It is our way of recognizing the greatest sacrifice for Islam.

Shah-e-Mardan Sher-e-Yazdan,
Quwwat-e-Parwardigar,
Lafatah illa ALI,
La Saif ila Zulfiqar
========================
42

Sorry Duplicate

[This message has been edited by Lashkar-e-Abbas (edited March 28, 2001).]

43

its a cultural thing? cultural things are not bound by religion, maatam is practised by shiaas, so its a shia thing.

44

[quote]
Originally posted by nomaan:
*its a cultural thing? cultural things are not bound by religion, maatam is practised by shiaas, so its a shia thing.
*
[/quote]

Maatam is of two types

Normal Hand Mataam: This is usually done by hand and is no threat to human life or anything. This is used as a harmless way of showing ones grief.

Zanjeer Maatam (Knives on Chains): This was originated from Iran and was soon moved to Pakistan. Soon after, a fatwa was issued to ban this form of maatam because it endangers one's life. Instead people were encouraged to donate blood to comemorate the signifcance of Moharram. No one in Iran practices this form of Maatam anymore.

The fact that this is still being practiced in Pakistan(only I think) despite the fatwa shows that it is a cultural thing.

Shah-e-Mardan Sher-e-Yazdan,
Quwwat-e-Parwardigar,
Lafatah illa ALI,
La Saif ila Zulfiqar
========================
45

<<>>

So, if its not a religious thing, why do you people do it? Why do it regularly on the same day of the year and hurt and beat your selves up when Quran says do not hurt your selves! It is an innovation in Islam, right?

What do you have to say about Qadianism?

46

[quote]
Originally posted by Thanda Meetha Paani:
**<<>>

So, if its not a religious thing, why do you people do it? Why do it regularly on the same day of the year and hurt and beat your selves up when Quran says do not hurt your selves! It is an innovation in Islam, right?

What do you have to say about Qadianism?
**
[/quote]

Like I said, there is nothing wrong with it as long as it does not endanger anyone's life. If people wanna do it. Let them. That is there way of showing their grief. So let them.

What's wrong with that? Islam doesn't say don't do it.

That's like saying.. driving a car is an innovation cuzz it doesn't say in the Qur'an that you should drive one.

I have very little knowledge about Qadianis. I'd love it if some Qadiani would like to enlighten me about their religion. I am always open to that.
Islam teaches man to learn. You shouldn't be a muslim because your father is. You shouldn't be a sunni or shia or Qadiani because your dad is. You should research on your own and then chose. That's the way Islam should be followed.

Shah-e-Mardan Sher-e-Yazdan,
Quwwat-e-Parwardigar,
Lafatah illa ALI,
La Saif ila Zulfiqar
========================
47

What do you have to say about Qadianism?<<<<<

TMP. Do you want me to open TMP to demonstrate the difference? Or why don’t you open it yourself, like a good kid you are.

48

The fact that this is still being practiced in Pakistan(only I think) despite the fatwa shows that it is a cultural thing.

gimme a break.. i saw a travel show a few days ago. it was from last year. they showed iran. and they were they're during the maatam. its was happening and in full swing.

i think you're a moderate shia and not like the types that visit this board.

and thats a compliment.

[This message has been edited by nomaan (edited March 28, 2001).]

49

Abbas, what does a car have to do with RELIGION?

People at the time of MOhammad rode horses and camels, is it in quran to ride horses and camels? Its not there, so that means mohammad who rode camels and horses was doing something contrary to Islam? Come on, get some sense into you. What do car and horses have in common considering the context? The horses were used for TRANSPORTATION and CARS are used today for transportation!

Does Quran say that you should beat the hell out of your self because someone you love died? Ok, you can CRY because you have no control over it, but why beat your self until blood gushes out? And most people measure in glasses to see how much blood came out of them and then they show off(kind of pride) which is hated by Allah in Quran.

What shias do, they do it as a part of religion of ISLAM. They do something which has no basis as being a PART OF RELIGION and no evidence are found that MOhammad performed such ritual. There are better ways to vent your anger when some one dies.

The question about qadianism: The Qadianis believe that Mirza Ghulam Ahmadii was a PROPHET. Now authentic hadiths and verses from QURAN suggest that MOhammad(saw) was the last in the line of Prophets. Do the shias believe that Mirza sahib was a prophet or there is a prophet after Mohammad(saw)???

50

[quote]
Originally posted by nomaan:
*gimme a break.. i saw a travel show a few days ago. it was from last year. they showed iran. and they were they're during the maatam. its was happening and in full swing.
*

[/quote]

Did you see them hitting themselves with knives?? (I don't think so) That is only practiced in Pakistan.
Some people in Iran use just chains without the knives too. But that is obviously no danger to one's life. 

Shah-e-Mardan Sher-e-Yazdan,
Quwwat-e-Parwardigar,
Lafatah illa ALI,
La Saif ila Zulfiqar
========================
51

they were using metal chains. its was like.. a single handle with multiple chains.

the thing that i didn't like was they they had a kid version of the thing. like..it could have been used easily by a 5 year old..

52

[quote]
Originally posted by Thanda Meetha Paani:
**Abbas, what does a car have to do with RELIGION?

People at the time of MOhammad rode horses and camels, is it in quran to ride horses and camels? Its not there, so that means mohammad who rode camels and horses was doing something contrary to Islam? Come on, get some sense into you. What do car and horses have in common considering the context? The horses were used for TRANSPORTATION and CARS are used today for transportation!
**
[/quote]

Exactly my point! That's what I am trying to say. Just cuzz it is not in the Qur'an does not mean you can't do it if you want to. It would be wrong to do it if the Qur'an said don't do it.

[quote]

**
Does Quran say that you should beat the hell out of your self because someone you love died? Ok, you can CRY because you have no control over it, but why beat your self until blood gushes out? And most people measure in glasses to see how much blood came out of them and then they show off(kind of pride) which is hated by Allah in Quran.
**

[/quote]

Like I said before Shia religion does not tell you to do this. Hitting your self is not a prayer or anything like that. People wanna do it so they do. You can't say that Shia's do it because they believe that that is a part of their religion or anything.
I'll emphasize this again. ** IT IS NOT PART OF THE RELIGION **

You bring me one Shia source that says Shi'as should hit themselves as a religious practice.

** THIS JUST GOES ON TO SHOW WHAT I SAID IN MY FIRST POST THAT SHIAS AND SUNNIS HAVE A LOT OF MISCONCEPTIONS AMONGST THEM. PEOPLE BELIEVE WHATEVER THE BS THESE MULLAHS HAVE TO SAY WITHOUT EVEN USING THEIR HEADS. IT"S THE SAME FOR SUNNIS AND SHIAS. **

Have you ever asked these Mullahs how much education they have?

[quote]
**
There are better ways to vent your anger when some one dies.
**
[/quote]

Exactly my brother. That is why people now a days are starting to DONATE blood instead of shedding it.

[quote]

**
The question about qadianism: The Qadianis believe that Mirza Ghulam Ahmadii was a PROPHET. Now authentic hadiths and verses from QURAN suggest that MOhammad(saw) was the last in the line of Prophets. Do the shias believe that Mirza sahib was a prophet or there is a prophet after Mohammad(saw)???
**

[/quote]

No Shias don't believe that. Mohammad (saw) was the seal of ProphetHood.

**
[/QUOTE]

Shah-e-Mardan Sher-e-Yazdan,
Quwwat-e-Parwardigar,
Lafatah illa ALI,
La Saif ila Zulfiqar
========================
53

Wait a min....

You people say that Imaam Hussain sacrificed himself to save ISLAM, right? This belief is so matching with christian belief that Jesus died to save humanity.

Do you know inflecting your self with HARM is haram and no supported by Quran or SUnnah. Do you know that MOhammad never practiced such ritual when someone died. Many sahabis died in wars. Do you know how Hazrat Humza was killed? Prophet MOhammad(pbuh) didn't even cry in a loud voice.

Do you know how Hazrat Usman was killed?

How can you people grive and cry over something which happened 1300 years ago.

[This message has been edited by Thanda Meetha Paani (edited March 28, 2001).]

54

How can you people grive and cry over something which happened 1300 years ago.<<<<

TMP, the same way as you cry over Khatam-e-Nabuwat.

55

[quote]
Originally posted by Thanda Meetha Paani:
**
How can you people grive and cry over something which happened 1300 years ago.

**
[/quote]

thats none of your business

56

It is my bussiness, you people make Islam look like a barbaric and uncivilized religion when you go out with chains and knifes hitting your body and blood is coming out of you.

Sherazz, what if someone dies while doing this matam, what do you think happens to him? Will he be charged with suicide or arrogance and pride?
What does QURAN say about "hitting" or "harming" your self like you people do on matam? Does it say you should harm your self in any circumstances or???

57

[quote]
Originally posted by Thanda Meetha Paani:
**It is my bussiness, you people make Islam look like a barbaric and uncivilized religion when you go out with chains and knifes hitting your body and blood is coming out of you.

Sherazz, what if someone dies while doing this matam, what do you think happens to him? Will he be charged with suicide or arrogance and pride?
What does QURAN say about "hitting" or "harming" your self like you people do on matam? Does it say you should harm your self in any circumstances or???
**
[/quote]

Did you even read my earliers posts?? I made it clear that doing maatam or anything for that matter that endangers one's life is Haraam! (There is a fatwa against it)
That is why I said it is not a part of the religion, but just cuzz some shias in Pakistan or someother country do it doesn't mean that the religion says so.

That is the problem with people. They judge the religion by its followers. Lets suppose that you don't pray Namaz. Will it be correct for me to say that Sunnis don't pray? and for them it is a part of their religion not to pray.

I think we have exhausted this maatam topic (If you are still not satisfied PM me)

Do you guys have anyother questions about Shia faith? I started this thread as an educational one to eradicate the differences amongst Shias and Sunnis. In my opinion Shias and Sunnis are both spinOffs of the religion that the Prophet intended Islam to be. I think the real Islam is in the middle. But people need to be educated. People need to explore both beliefs before they start harping on and on and on about this faith or that faith is wrong. I guess it is a matter of pride with the Muslim Ummah that they'll never admit their mistakes.
Ah well.

If you guys have anyother constructive comments towards this, we can keep this thread going. Otherwise admin you can close this thread.

Shah-e-Mardan Sher-e-Yazdan,
Quwwat-e-Parwardigar,
Lafatah illa ALI,
La Saif ila Zulfiqar
========================
58

SO, its not part of religion but you guys do it on the NAME Of religion because that Imam hussain died for to save islam, and islam is a religion, in other words, its a innovation and doing it brings NO benefit to the dead or person performing this ritual.

We should judge a religion by its BOOKS, do you agree? Wanna discuss al-kafi?

I have many questions…

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/hehe.gif

59

i heard about shias praying.. and doing sujda on mitii from karbla..or something like that.

whats up with that?

60

*Its a innovation *

It would be if it was part of the religion which it isn't.

and doing it brings NO benefit to the dead or person performing this ritual.

I never said it did!

*We should judge a religion by its BOOKS, do you agree? Wanna discuss al-kafi? *

Go Ahead... I have never read the book, but I'll do some research and try to answer it as well as I can.

P.S (I am still only 18. I'll ask the Alim at my mosque if I can't answer them. So bear with the delay if there is any)

**

Shah-e-Mardan Sher-e-Yazdan,
Quwwat-e-Parwardigar,
Lafatah illa ALI,
La Saif ila Zulfiqar
========================